[fudelholf]

I like diversity and have loathing for a fascist like syndrom interpreation Islam. None is saying Arabic is not the language of Rasullah SAW but the question is why Allah has created people into different nations, tribes? The variety of langauge in itself is a sign of rahama. I am sorry I don't buy into the lamadhabi interpreation of langauge either. Tell the arabs to master their language first before sholving it down our throat. We bangalis fought against colonisaiton of Pakistanis and am sure the rest of the world would do the same be muslim or non muslim. I hate arabisation, Pakiasation, Anglocisation of a culture.
Allahualam

Brother, you sound upset and emotional.
Take it easy. Don't get angry.

[BGThomasis]

just recalled one funny thing:
Molana tariq jameel db mentioned there was an IJTEMA in one of the jungles of Djibouti (Jabuuti) and the people of Jabuuti itself couldn't understand the language of the jungle.

In my opinion, Yes we should learn proper Arabic but diversity in language is a good thing. Even arabs couldn't produce a Poet like Allama Muhammad Iqbal ra.

[fudelholf]

Nope!! I am being forcefull : ) to deliver a point home! Asians and arabs of today need a earful otherwise it goes in one ear and out the other. Atleast this way their ear drum is damaged enough to understand.

Well then, are you sure you don't want to rescind some of your statements?

[ftpsoft]

brother Nomadic take a chill pill bro. Sometimes it's better to start at home. How is your search for a sufi shaykh? When you planning to go 4 months?

[QYD8eQ8F]

Urdu language has a vast literature but of no use just the positive reception of human work and a tool of communication. If Arabic language could have had been a tool of communication, Pakis would have been able to speak and understand just like Urdu. Pakis (who ain't accustomed to Arabic lang) would not be Reciting Quran as now, rather Reading it (Pondering).

Arabic language can bring a change and can assure a bright future of Pakistan. This country needs to know the word of Allah. Otherwise, the future is bleak.

[statistica]

Sometimes I wonder why we discuss things that aren't going to impact the real world? Who here is going to push for the introduction of Arabic language as a compulsory subject in to the Pakistani education system?

[irrehoobe]

Sometimes I wonder why we discuss things that aren't going to impact the real world? Who here is going to push for the introduction of Arabic language as a compulsory subject in to the Pakistani education system?

Assalaamu alaikum,

you just stole my words. This is a pointless and useless discussion

[QYD8eQ8F]

Sometimes I wonder why we discuss things that aren't going to impact the real world? Who here is going to push for the introduction of Arabic language as a compulsory subject in to the Pakistani education system?

the real world? they won't go useless insha Allaah. Nation can think of the conditions possible for its renovation. Who knows a single person's sincere Dua or concern bring about that change.

[TubOppomo]

Of the 3billion Muslim population, half of it comes from the sub continent. So it does make a difference for switching to arabic. Pakistan is the best choice as other countries are still stuck in their nationalist myth while some are too far away from making a transition. But I agree it shouldn't result in arabising the culture itself such that people think walking and talking like someone from present day saudi makes you better Muslim.

[Qzmsdoem]

Although I disagree with brother general Nomadic's prejudice against Gulf Arabs (and him being a Bangladeshi makes this understandable - more on that to come), I do agree that it is not necessary for all Pakistanis to speak Arabic as a mother tongue. The Persians maintained a great tradition of scholarship without abandoning Persian. The educated Persians were generally bilingual readers and writers, as is the case with many Pakistanis.

That being said, Imam al-Shafi'i said he spent two thirds of his wealth learning Arabic (for 21 years) whilst being a Qurayshi, and the remainder studying hadith. He lamented that he didn't spend more on Arabic!

I do have a problem with the system of education in Dar al-Ulums outside of Pakistan, such as in England. I cannot understand the rationale for teaching in Urdu. This actually prevents many Arab families living in the West from sending their children to these schools. I know of converts who are alienated by this too. That time could be devoted to gaining proficiency in Arabic speaking skills, a noted deficiency in Dar al-Ulum graduates.

Another strange thing is finding the khutba on Friday in Urdu whilst being in England! Many of the youths (from Pakistani backgrounds) told me that they don't understand it either! What's the about?

Now then brother Nomadic. I myself am deeply saddened by the jahili racist treatment of Bangladeshis in the Gulf. I often speak out against it and have had Bangladeshi friends who have been cleaners. They were very smart, quoted Shakespeare, and were strong in religious understanding. Back home they were supporting their entire family on 1,000 Riyals a month. Some of them managed to build houses and start businesses masha'Allah. That's not to say I have not known bad Bangladeshis. Gulf Arabs have a stereotypical perception that all Bangladeshis are criminals. There is even the belief that the Bangladeshi government opened up their prisons to send workers to the Gulf. Whenever a Bangladeshi does a crime (it does happen) it is blown out of proportion in the press and the backlash continues. My advice is for Bangladeshis and Pakistanis to be well-aware of these matters before going to work or live in the Gulf. Even a western passport wont save you. This is very sad but you should see how Saudis are treated in America or in European Airports!

It is not too dissimilar to the perception that many English people have about Pakistanis. But two wrongs don't make a right, as they say in England. Don't return the hatred. I know that even Bangladeshi university professors are abused and even a British or Canadian passport wont stop you being perceived negatively by many. But billahi alayk have you never met a good Khaliji? What benefit will you have in the Afterlife if you go around with hostility in your heart against Muslims, accusing them of hypocrisy? Sins don't make a person a kafir.

[tgs]

Deen is preserved in 3 languages; Arabic, Farsi and Urdu. Urdu being the last. Todays youth barely understand Urdu, the hope for Farsi and Arabic is very little. Shall we bring these youth to Urdu or change everything to English??

Its funny the same people who complain they cant understand the Urdu bayaan can sit and watch the latest Bollywood 9 hour movie.

[mincarlie.frymyer]

Isa al-Asri
Sterotypical view is founded on experience!! So I understand the anti bangali view expressed by some in GCC. I express a lot of anti pakistani view as well (mainly against mirpuri, Jehlemi). I for one prefer to work with Muslim and non muslim from European countries more then other. I find them sincere, not tow faced, backstabbing and professional and hence would give them higher wage!! Ofcourse there are exception!! I am pragmatic and comparing kuffar with muslim, kuffar do a better job and have generally outwardly have good adabs (not talking about scallys or new money kuffar). I live in GCC and often wonder perhaps kuffar taking over these land would be a good idea because atleast they will be forced to follow due process!

As for bayan in Urdu does not make sense specially the Friday Bayan before Friday khutba! I don't understand arabic but generaly apprciate Urdu in relegious discourse. This is from Bangalis who spend a lot of time reading bangali poetry. It carrys a lot of emotion more then english. What can be expressed in few words in urdu will take a lot in English!
The only who have problems from Indo pak ADCB's are the practicsing muslim who has inferiroty complex or superiority complex!! No problme wathcing Indian Drama or bollywood film, music but suffer from allargic reaction when occasional lectures are given in Urdo.
Allahualam

[ftpsoft]

brother Nomadic since you live in the GCC you might want to re-iterate the fact that the ACTUAL locals are not too bad. Have you seen the state of the other arab expats??? Everybody I know says emiratis are ok but they face a lot more trouble from other arab expats. I sometimes joke with my wife imagine if the arab expats had the same amount of money as the emiratis? Imagine how bad the situation would be then?

[ftpsoft]

but brother Nomadic don't you agree that the major problem in UAE is not really the locals but expats. I mean you have white chavs from essex who get promoted beyond their capabilities just for being white. Then you have arab expats who spend their time brown nosing the locals and treating everybody else in such an appalling manner. Whenever I hear about negativity about GCC and khaleejis I think man give them guys a break. In UAE with all due respect arab expats are the hardest people to deal with and not the locals. I have mostly experienced kindness from khaleejis. They at least have some manners and respond to salam. The other lighter skinned arab expats are seriously annoying and very rarely will respond to salam from a person who they can't get benefit from.

[mincarlie.frymyer]

Unless you are local, it is unlikly one wear ghatra. I have seen teenager wearing ghatra's behaviour as well. But as a whole the local men are much nicer and friendlier here in UAE more then anywhere in GCC.
I do not know undeserving chavs getting promoted - perhaps it depends on profession to profession. I like working with European more then arabs or others in general. Ofcourse there are exception. Often the Arabs and people from indo pak do things just to be safe rather then what is called for and warranted. In my experience these habbit increases cost for the client. In addition there is a lot of corruption by the Indo pakis and some Arab workforce.
Allahualam

[OwdBKKHO]

I like diversity and have loathing for a fascist like syndrom interpreation Islam. None is saying Arabic is not the language of Rasullah SAW but the question is why Allah has created people into different nations, tribes? The variety of langauge in itself is a sign of rahama.

No one is denying that diversity is a good thing and that Allah has created us into different tribes and nations. Nothing the OP posted brings this into question or poses a threat to this.

I am sorry I don't buy into the lamadhabi interpreation of langauge either. Tell the arabs to master their language first before sholving it down our throat.

Regarding the relationship of the Arabic language to the Arabs and the Muslims, Arabic, pure Arabic, Arabic as in the language derived from the Quran, what is called "Fusha", is the language of all Muslims, just as the Quran is a book for all Muslims, and just as the Prophet (peace be upon him) is the prophet of all Muslims, Arab and non-Arab. According to the logic that you are employing in the statement "Tell the arabs to master their language first before sholving it down our throat" the Quran must also be "their" book since it was revealed in "their" language and to a person who was an Arab. I hope you can see how this is incorrect and a disturbing assertion.

We bangalis fought against colonisaiton of Pakistanis and am sure the rest of the world would do the same be muslim or non muslim. I hate arabisation, Pakiasation, Anglocisation of a culture. Allahualam

Yes, Bengalis fought against it and fought valiantly against the excesses of "Pak"istan; for that I commend them. However, your point has little relevance to the subject of this thread. The subject of this thread was whether not it was now time, or was in some way beneficial, to change the "lingua franca" (i.e. language used to communicate between groups of people not sharing the same mother tongue) from Urdu (a language that is the first language of a VERY small percentage of people in Pakistan), to Arabic. The fact is that the bulk of those people now living in areas that are part of Pakistan are of the opinion that it makes sense to have some common language so that members of various groups can communicate with each other (although that doesn't mean that they don't think that their own mother tongues should not have official status in the nation or not be taught in schools and the like). So in this case the poster is not asking a question about whether there ought to be a common language used to communicate among people of with different mother tongues but takes this as a given. Instead they are asking whether, if there is going to be a lingua franca, it should be Arabic because if it were so there would be obvious religious advantages, as opposed to Urdu, which is an artificially constructed language with very few who speak it as a mother tongue and which over the years has been associated with various controversies.

I hope that this brings some clarity on things.

[Cyncceply]

Assalaamu alaikum,

I don't see a reason why Urdu which does not represent all of Pakistan should be given the national language status. I have read that this was a mistake and opportunity lost by making urdu the national language when Pakistan was founded. Isn't it time to shift to Arabic? And which do you think is the most purest dialect of Arabic today?

I agree but dont settle on arabic dialects, why cant pakistan surpass arab countries in their arabic skills and speak pure fus-ha inshALlah? IF people wanted it and their was political will, its doable. If you love to follow the prophet, this was his language. How beautiful to speak in the same manner as our beloved prophet salallahu alayhi wassalam.

Pakistanis who learn arabic have quite a good reputation as being good at arabic grammer.

I hope some efforts are made in this regard inshAllah. You all should think about practical means of spreading teh lnaguage inshALlah, awareness campaigns and things. it would be a beenficial use of your time compared to some time wasting threads on here for sure. the non muslims know how valuable arabic is to us and thats why they spread european languages n the arabic speaking world

[Cyncceply]

the advantages of arabic as a language of muslims are many. Religious benefits like understanding teh qur'an when we hear it, being able to read the books of teh ulema, having a sense of unity and religious heritage and pride in our language, unity amongst muslims as we could comunity with anyone anywhere in teh world etc etc. It also has worldly benefits such as economical benefits. Language is a tool that is being utilised by teh kuffar but not by the muslims unfortunately. We're too bogged down with nationalism and strange ideas to see the wood from teh trees. If this logical analysis isnt sufficient, who will dare attack the chief of the believers as being faschist:

One of the reported instructions ‘Umar wrote to Abû Mûsâ Al-Ash’arî and those under his governance during the former’s Caliphate was,

“Seek knowledge and understanding of (fiqh) the Sunnah and seek knowledge and understanding of Arabic.

”Ibn Abî Shaybah, Al-Musannaf Vol.6 p126.

It is reported that he said,

“Learn Arabic, for it strengthens the intelligence and increases one’s noble conduct (al-murû`ah).

”Al-Bayhaqî, Shu’ab Al-Îmân Vol.4 p187.

It is also reported that he said,

“Do not learn the language of the non-Arabs, and do not enter upon them in their churches on their festivals, for indeed wrath descends upon them.

”‘Abd Al-Razzâq Al-San’ânî, Al-Musannaf Vol.1 p411.

It is also reported that he was once circumambulating the Ka’bah when he heard two men speaking in a language other than Arabic behind him. He turned to them and said,

“Find some way to learn Arabic.

”



Umar is not the only person from teh salaf who encouraged arabic but you get teh point. And if it were not teh objective of the salaf, why did arabic spread to north africa and syria, iraq etc? I even heard turkey used to have arabic script or langauge as did somali until recently when attaturk decided turkey needed turkish instead and somalia needed to adopt the script of the europeans. Who in their right mind would not think its bad that muslims have lost the arabic language?

Even teh jews recognise the importance of keeping their religious language as their heritage