[Cxcvvfbgtr]

so brother murabit.......tell us names and locations or u avoiding my question lol...... tell us about ur experiences because we are indopak people and dont know much about the maliki auliya.......so come on let us in on some of your stories........and by the way who is ur shaykh????

indo pak people have in their midst some of the most pious people, may Allah bless them and sancitify their secrets. In fact you would be suprised that the people of the maghrib and the awliya from the arab world will wish to be of them, knowing what proximities they have with Allah. They have some of the best people that have combined the haqiqa and shari3a together, may Allah benefit the ummah from them always.

dear brother finding a shaykh is not like going for a shopping trip, nor does it depend on the location or place. it depends on your state of heart, and the isti3dadiyya/himaah or spiritual capabilities you have..as each ones isti3dadiya is different.. and people get closer to Allah through different ladders and strengths. Make Duaa that Allah swt leads you to your Shaykh, and who eventually leads to the Prophet sallahu aliye wasalam himself, as that is the goal of every Shaykh to lead you to, and once you are with the Prophet sallahu aliye wasalam, you will truely experience Allah swt.

[Beragagnu]

My sheikh spoke of this in video discourse on Hazarat Ali Hajweris book sirr ul asrar.

He just mentioned the Qaf mountain in passing and said it was on another planet.

Then he looked at one of the talibs sitting on the floor off camera and said "...You have seen it right, the planet is large and has rings like saturn?"

now this was a video discourse so nobody in the room asked him to elaborate (or maybe they didnt need him to since they had seen it)

if the Qaf mountain is on another planet (like saturns size) it could be possible that the mountain itself is larger than the whole earth or several earths.

I later asked a senoir talib about it and he confirmed to me that not only had he heard of this mountain, He had seen it with is own eyes in waking state while in Lahore studying with the sheikh.

Evsu, here are several accounts by reliable witnesses, are they all liying?

[Ivanaishere]

Evsu, here are several accounts by reliable witnesses, are they all liying?

I don't know whether they are lying or not, but they sure are deluded. There is no such thing as Mountain Qaf and the serpent around it. And by the way, everyone who believed in it this mythological mountain range believed that it surrounded the planet earth, not another planet.

[Beragagnu]

please refrain from insulting my sheikh or his talibs.

and remember sometimes you have not been supplied with all the information regarding the unseen. so guard your tongue when speaking of things you have very little info on.

[Ivanaishere]

please refrain from insulting my sheikh or his talibs.

and remember sometimes you have not been supplied with all the information regarding the unseen. so guard your tongue when speaking of things you have very little info on.

So someone who has seen this Mountain Qaf is a wali? Please tell me why didn't the Prophet never told us about it. He never said that if we become good Muslims we will see this mountain or the snake around it, or did he?

[Cxcvvfbgtr]

So someone who has seen this Mountain Qaf is a wali? Please tell me why didn't the Prophet never told us about it. He never said that if we become good Muslims we will see this mountain or the snake around it, or did he?

the prophet sallahu aliye wasalam did confirm from hadeeth that if you become sound in eman you will see paradise and its residents greeting one another, and hell and its people wailing, from your heart. Also you would be able to see the Arsh. this is even more greater than witnessing mountain Qaf. You need to understand that a mumin, as the hadeeth mentions, is blessed with seeing from Allah's light, and part of this sight is baseerah. Just because if jabal Qaf explicitly is not mentioned in the Quran or the hadeeth collections that we have in our hands, does not mean it should be discounted, not all knowledge from the Prophet sallahu aliye wasalam is contained in the established texts of the sihah, the musnads, and the sunans, there are many more that has come from him sallahu aliye wasalam that have been transmitted through the mashayekh/awliya from generation to generation.

[Ivanaishere]

the prophet sallahu aliye wasalam did confirm from hadeeth that if you become sound in eman you will see paradise and its residents greeting one another, and hell and its people wailing, from your heart. Also you would be able to see the Arsh.

You need to cite the hadith if someone is to believe you.

[Cxcvvfbgtr]

...

[Beragagnu]

I dont know the strength of this hadeeth, but I found it at this website
http://alsunnahfoundation.org/qaf.html

The following tradition is attributed to the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) and is recorded by Tabari in,‘Chronique de Tabari’.

Here is how the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) replied concerning Djaboulqa and Djaboulsa:

“These are two cities, one in the East and one in the West. Djaboulqa is in the East and Djaboulsa in the West. These cities are of emerald and both are linked to the mountain Qaf. They have both twelve thousand parasang2 in length and twelve thousand parasang in width.”

The Prince of Believers Ali (peace be upon him) son of Abu Talib was in presence of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) when the Jews came from Khaibar, Fadak and those of Beji Qoraidha. The Jews came with Abu Jehal and Walid-ben-Mogaira to see that, what the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said was tally with the Pentateuch and the traditions.

Hazrat Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) said, “O Apostle of Allah, these two cities (Djaboulqa and Djaboulsa) are they in the same world we are living?”

The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) replied, “The two cities are situated in darkness and contiguous to the mountain Qaf.”

Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) asked, “How many inhabitants are there in these places?” The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) replied, “Each of these cities has fortresses and in each fortress there is a garrison of 1000 men who keep on guard each night. The tour (of guard duty) of the men who once keep on guard does not return until the next year”.

Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) asked, “why should there be so great number of people to guard on that place?”

The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) replied, “Because in these places there are an enormous quantity of gems which belongs to these people whom we call-Tharis and Taqil, they are the enemy of the Djaboulqa and Djaboulsa. They are unceasingly at war night and day. They fight with themselves. It is because of these people that there are these guards and these sentinels”.

Hazrat Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) asked, “do the inhabitants of Djaboulqa and Djaboulsa form part of the children of Adam?”

The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) replied, “they do not even know Adam.”

Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) asked, “has the devil penetrated there?” The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) replied, “neither do they know it (the devil).”

Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) asked “do the sun and the moon shine on them?” The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) replied, “They know not that Allah has created the sun and the moon.”



Hazrat Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) asked, “But how they see?” Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) replied, “light come to them from the mountain Qaf, and their walls, their stones, and their dusts are all shining as lights.”

Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) “O Apostle of Allah, what do they eat?”

The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) replied, “the herbs that grow on the earth”. Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) asked, “what do they wear?”

The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) replied, “they have no need to cover their bodies with garments.”

Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) added, “so, they are angels.”

Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) replied, “No, but their obedience to Allah is similar to the angels.”

Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) asked, “do they have children?”

The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) replied, “they desire not to have for they are all males and they have no females.”

Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) replied, “are they among the Elects or of the damned?” The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) replied, “they are among the Elects, because they follow the religion and the laws. And they have professed Islam. In the night of Mi’raj when Jibrail took me to heaven, he took me thence to these people. I offered them Islam, they believed in me and in Allah. I appointed a Caliph among them from among their own nation and I taught them Islam. Jibrail then took me to Tharis and Taqil and towards Yajuj and Majuj; they were infidels and did not accept Islam.”

Then Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) asked, “O, Apostle of Allah, can any man reach that place?” The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) replied, “No man has the power to reach these people because one has to walk four months in darkness! Meanwhile at the time of Prophet Hud, three men among the Adites3 who became Muslim and who believed in the Prophet Hud, fled their people, and reached these cities.”

Some people pretended that Djaboulqa and Djaboulsa are situated to where the sun sets. We are also told that, the inhabitants of Earth would have heard the rising and the setting of the sun, had not these people created tumults and noises at these cities. Dhul-Qurnain remained two months in the darkness willing to reach these mysterious cities. But he failed as he needed to walk for two more months in the darkness.

The Jews of Medinah Al-Munawwara having heard these stories said, “We have seen the same things in the Pentateuch.” Now the three persons who fled the A’d4 people arrived at Djaboulqa and Djaboulsa, and they stayed there. They were tormented by the people of Fid. They wanted to escape, but they could not. For these people have more power than they do.


This is an exerpt from book by Naqshbandi Sheikh Muhamed Yasin Owadally

Ive never heard of him?

The thing is evsu, varous sheikh (ibn Al Arabi, my sheikh) have mentioned this place, and because I do not claim to have any knowledge of it I will not speak on its existance or defame people who claim it exists.

It does not affect my deen right now to beleive or disbeleive in Mount Qaf.

although if I go around calling the friends of Allah "Deluded", this may adversly affect my deen.

[Ivanaishere]

Brother Mujahid, you better be careful in quoting a "hadith" which may not be a hadith at all, lest other people who read this might think this is that statement of the Prophet . Since we don't know whether it is authentic or not, we cannot use this as an argument to support that Mountain Qaf exists.

[Beragagnu]

I stated that I dont know the strength of the hadeeth, but this info may be usefull to the poster

If you know the strength of the hadeeth, please let us know, i am currious.

...but this was qouted from Imam tabari (RA) was he "deluded"?

The beleif in mount Qaf is not a matter of aqeedah, so even a weak (not fabricated) hadeeth can be used.

p.s.
read again the part of my previous post which was in bold text, it could be usefull to you.

[ScosyGissiok]

Also (from the book I linked to):

According to the famous historian Tabari, the Prophet of Islam is reported to have said:

"Allah created the mountain Qaf all around the Earth. It is called stake of the Earth, as it is said in the Quran, 'And the mountains as pegs?' This world is in the middle of the mountain of Qaf as the finger is in the middle of the ring. No man can reach there, for he needs to spend four months in the darkness, In this mountain there is no sun, no moon no stars and it is so blue that the azure colour of the sky is the brightness of the mountain Qaf that reflects on the sky, and it appears this colour, If this was not so, the sky would not be blue. All the mountains that are seen in this world are from the mountain Qaf. ...

Qaf is the arabicized form of the Persian word "Gap" which means "Unknown", it is interesting to know that the oldest mention of an Unknown Mountain is in an inscription of Shapur I (241-272 AD) for the mounatins between the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea. He has mentioned it Gapkuh ("Unknown Mountain" Gap=Unkown & Kuh=Mountain) = Arabic Qafqaz = Russian KAVKAZ = English Caucasus

[Ivanaishere]

I stated that I dont know the strength of the hadeeth, but this info may be usefull to the poster

You should make that statement of yours in bold and red letters.

If you know the strength of the hadeeth, please let us know, i am currious.

Why should I know? You're the one who brought this as an argument.

...but this was qouted from Imam tabari (RA) was he "deluded"?

No, he wasn't deluded. Note that Imam Tabari said in the beginning of his "Tarikh" work that not all reports he is going to cite may be authentic. Tabari's job was to copy the hadiths he knew by his heart. Our job (i.e. hadith scholars' job) is to find out which are authentic, which are weak, which are fabricated, etc. Maybe Imam Tabari did not know these hadiths were weak or fabricated, etc.

UPDATE: And even if Tabari believed in these mountains, there is no problem with it, because he may have thought these narrations are authentic, and also because at those times it was difficult to prove that the earth was round. But now in these modern times if any sheikh or a student of knowledge believes in these things then they are being extreme in their beliefs.

[Cxcvvfbgtr]

You need to cite the hadith if someone is to believe you.

here dear brother:

From al-Harith ibn Malik al-Ansari (some chains have: al-Haritha ibn al-Na`man al-Ansari): He passed by the Prophet who asked him: "How are you this morning O Haritha [sic]?" He replied: "This morning I am a real believer." The Prophet said: "Take care of what you say: what is the reality of your belief?" He said: "I have turned myself away from this world by keeping awake at night and by keeping myself thirsty by day; and I can almost see the Throne of my Lord in full sight; and I can see the people of the Garden of Paradise visiting each other; and I can almost see the people of the Fire wailing to each other in it." The Prophet said: "O Haritha, you do know: therefore cleave to it." Some versions add: "This is a believer, Allah has illumined his heart" (mu'minun nawwara Allahu qalbah)



source:

Narrated by Tabarani in his Mu`jam al-Kabir, al-Bazzar, Suyuti in his Jami` al-saghir, al-Haythami in Majma` al-zawa'id in the "Chapter on the Reality of Belief and its Perfection" (bab haqiqat al-iman wa kamalih), al-`Askari, Ibn al-Mubarak in Kitab al-zuhd, `Abd al-Razzaq through two chains, Ibn Mindah, Bayhaqi in Shu`ab al-iman, Ibn Asram in Kitab al-istiqama, Ibn Sa`id, and Ibn Abi Shayba in his Musannaf. Abu Hanifa mentions it in his al-Fiqh al-akbar. Ibn Hajar in his Isaba lists its many chains and says that this is a hadith mu`dal (i.e. its chain is missing two or more sub-narrators) and mawsul (or: muttasil; i.e. it is linked back to a Companion through the authority of a Tabi`i.

[SkHukV3N]

and also because at those times it was difficult to prove that the earth was round.

People have known the Earth to be round since the time of the ancient Greeks, and possibly earlier. Earatosthenes calculated the Earth's circumference with remarkable accuracy about 200 years BC.

[bonyrek]

So why didn't the Prophet , his companions, the four caliphs, their followers, awliya like Hasan al-Basri and Ibn Sirin, scholars like Abu Hanifa, Sifyan, Malik, Layth, Shafi'i, Ahmad ibn Hanbal, and those who followed them, never mentioned these mountains nor the serpent? Why did they never see it?

The prophet (SAW) , the holy companions. iman abuhanifa.. shafii.. mailk..hanbal..hasan basari. rahimallahu alaihum also never mentioned anything about America.. Australia.. polar bears..and they probably never saw it.. guess u dont believe that too..

[bonyrek]

The awliya get to see many things, some of them can be classified as less important than others. They get to see for example the seven skies and its angels, and also the whole world in front of them, where they can see for example where a loved one might be if they are travelling somewhere else, just like when sayidina Umar while in Madina observed another Sahabi in Syria who were in a battle and were facing difficulties, and also more importantly the Awliya can see paradise and hell, and their details and peoples from their hearts.

The spirit of a human being is far bigger than this earth.

About the secret, it is witnessing Allah swt, seeing Him in His power, beauty and glory and seeing Him in His Essence and His Attributes, people are closer to Allah in proportion to what they have of this secret, we all have a portion of this secret when we follow the Prophet sallahu aliye wasalam sincerely and worship Allah seeking His face, as with every step we take towards Allah, Allah comes to us two folds, and those that are the closest to the Prophet sallahu aliye wasalam, inward and outward, will get to see Allah even more clearer, and will experience the beauty of His face, and coolness of His glory in more excellence.

The Awliya inherit through their teachers these divine witnessing and presence, who in turn from their chain of teachers inherited from the Prophet sallahu aliye wasalam, and just as when being with a perfume seller, some of the perfume falls on the person, likewise those around the awliya get incensed with the secrets they hold, and which appears in those individuals as increase in eman, and motivation of seeking Allah swt with doing more good actions.

Assalam alaikum..

Masha allah.. that was heart warming brother.. may Allah increase ur Iman. for these are the peope who are the ahle e dil.. or people of the heart.. as a shiakh told me.. that the people of heart are those who have given in thier hearts to the wishes of Allah SWT .. their desires each and everyone one submitted to Allah's will.. like someone who asked Hzt Junaid bagdadi (rah) how are the worldy affairs running at the moment.. he repiled according to my will.. the person said.. fear Allah..this is what firaun proclaimed.. Hzt Junaid bagdagi (rah) replied .. see I have submitted my each and every will to Allah SWT.. so what is my will is Allah's will.. and what is Allah's will is my will.. so when u reach the status of Ihsan.. seeing even mountains of gold would be molehills compared to what loftiness Allah rewards them.. may Allah reward us all with ikhlaas in our ibadah and seek his pleasure...
do remember me in ur dua..
wa assalam..

[elapicearpisp]

Wa alaikum assalam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh

Just some things I found on Google - I don't know the accuracy

In Tafsir al-Tustari, under Suratul-Qaf it is mentioned:

"His words, Exalted is He:

Qāf…

[With this word] God, Exalted is He, made an oath by His power and His omnipotence. In its outer meaning it refers to the mountain which surrounds this world, which is the first mountain God, Exalted is He, created. Then after it, He created Mount Abū Qubays, which is the mountain which rises above Safā. Beyond this, by a distance of a one year's journey, is a mountain behind which the sun sets, just as He said: until it [the sun] disappeared behind [night's] veil [38:32]. It has a face like a human face and a heart like the hearts of the angels in gnosis. (fi'l-ma'rifa)."

In Tafsir Ibn Abbas:

"And from his narration on the authority of Ibn 'Abbas that he said in the interpretation of Allah's saying (Qaf.): '(Qaf.) He says: it is an azure mountain overlooking this world, and the colour of the sky takes from it; Allah swore by it, (By the glorious Qur'an) and He swore by the glorious, noble Qur'an,"

From Rumi:

"Zu'l Qarnain journeyed to Mount Qaf;
He saw it was formed of a bright emerald,
Forming as it were a ring round the world,
Whereat all people are filled with wonder.
He said, "Thou mighty hill, what are other hills?
Before thee they are mere playthings."
The Mount replied, "Those hills are my veins,
But they are not like me in beauty and importance.
A hidden vein from me runs to every city,
The quarters of the world are bound to my veins.
When God desires an earthquake under any city,
He bids me shake one of my veins.
Then in anger I shake that vein
Which is connected with that particular city.
When He says, 'Enough,' my vein remains still,
I remain still, and then haste to perform my work.
Now still like a plaster, and now operating;
Now still like thought, and then speaking my thought.
But they who are void of reason imagine
That these earthquakes proceed from earth's vapors.

Jalaluddin Rumi (13th century CE), Masnavi I Ma'navi IV:9"

And also something from a book on an anti-Islamic website:

"In the Qisasu'l Anbiya we read that 'Abdu'llah bin Sallam one day asked Muhammad, 'What is above (or behind) the earth? 'He said, 'Mt. Qaf.' The other inquired of what Mt. Qaf was made. Muhammad said, 'Of green emerald; and the greenness of the sky is owing to it.' 'Thou hast spoken truly, O Apostle of GOD! What is the height of Mt. Qaf?' He said, 'It is five hundred years' journey high.' The other asked, 'How far is it round?' He replied, 'Two thousand years' journey round' (Qisas, p. 5)."

[elapicearpisp]

I've come across more information about it.

Heres a book which talks about it a little bit: http://books.google.com.au/books?id=...untain&f=false

Also while searching I found this statement of Ibn Kathir in his Tafsir of Suratul-Qaf:

It has been narrated from some of the salaf that they said, “Qaf is a mountain that surrounds the whole earth, and it is called Mount Qaf!” And it is as if this, and Allah knows best, is from the superstitions of the Children of Isra’il that some of the people took from them, because of their considering it to be permissible to narrate from them that which is not affirmed nor rejected. I think that this and its likes are from the forgery of some of the Zanadiqah (Heretics who seek to undermine the religion) amongst them who deceive the people concerning the matter of their religion, just as hadiths have been fabricated upon the Prophet in this Ummah – despite the great status of its scholars, Huffaz, and Imams – even though it has not been such a long time. So how about the nation of Bani Isra’il, what with the great time that has passed, the lack of precise Huffaz amongst them, their drinking alcoholic drinks, their scholars twisting the words from their places and changing Allah’s Books and Verses.

The Legislator only permitted narrating from them in his statement, ‘Relate from the Children of Isra’il, and there is no sin in that,’ concerning that which the intellect can conceive, but as for what the intellects find to be impossible, and it is deemed falsehood, and it is fairly obvious that it is a forgery – then it is not included in that. I do find this somewhat confusing as to how it is meant to be understood. It seems to be described as something in this physical world - but if thats the case then it seems to draw the world in a different way (i.e. flat). On the other hand it seems that it could be a place in another spiritual dimension or whatever you want to call it.

It would be good to hear a scholarly explanation about it.

[ScosyGissiok]

I've come across more information about it.

Heres a book which talks about it a little bit: http://books.google.com.au/books?id=...untain&f=false

Also while searching I found this statement of Ibn Kathir in his Tafsir of Suratul-Qaf:



I do find this somewhat confusing as to how it is meant to be understood. It seems to be described as something in this physical world - but if thats the case then it seems to draw the world in a different way (i.e. flat). On the other hand it seems that it could be a place in another spiritual dimension or whatever you want to call it.

It would be good to hear a scholarly explanation about it.

A lot of anti-Islamic site (like the satanic "in the name of Allah dot org") insist that the Quran mentions a flat earth many times. Here is an example of a refutation of this claim, from islamicvoice dot com:

Question : Quran says that Allah has made the earth for you as a carpet. This gives an indication that the earth is flat. Does this not contradict established modern science?

Answer:
1. Earth made as a carpet

The question refers to a verse from the Quran in Surah Nuh:

“And Allah has made the earth for you as a carpet (spread out).” [Al-Quran 71:19]

But the sentence in the above verse is not complete. It continues in the next verse, explaining the previous verse. It says: “That ye may go about therein, in spacious roads.” [Al-Quran 71:20]

A similar message is repeated in Surah TaHa:

“He Who has made for you the earth like a carpet spread out; has enabled you to go about therein by roads (and channels)....” [Al-Quran 20:53]

The surface of the earth i.e. earth’s crust is less than 30 miles in thickness and is very thin as compared to the radius of the earth which is about 3750 miles. The deeper layers of the earth are very hot, fluid and hostile to any form of life. The earth’s crust is a solidified shell on which we can live. The Quran rightly refers to it like a carpet spread out, so that we can travel along its roads and paths.
2. Carpet can also be spread on other than an absolute flat surface

Not a single verse of the Quran says that the earth is flat. The Quran only compares the earth’s crust with a carpet. Some people seem to think that carpet can only be put on an absolute flat surface. It is possible to spread a carpet on a large sphere such as the earth. It can easily be demonstrated by taking a huge model of the earth’s globe covering it with a carpet.

Carpet is generally put on a surface, which is not very comfortable to walk on. The Quran describes the earth crust as a carpet, without which human beings would not be able to survive because of the hot, fluid and hostile environment beneath it. The Quran is thus not only logical, it is mentioning a scientific fact that was discovered by geologists centuries later.
3. Earth has been spread out

Similarly, the Quran says in several verses that the earth has been spread out. “And We have spread out the (spacious) earth: how excellently We do spread out!” [Al-Quran 51:48]

Similarly the Quran also mentions in several other verses that the earth is an expanse: “Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse “And the mountains as pegs?” [Al-Quran 78:6-7]

None of these verses of the Quran contain even the slightest implication that the earth is flat. It only indicates that the earth is spacious and the reason for this spaciousness of the earth is mentioned. The Glorious Quran says: “O My servants who believe! Truly spacious is My Earth: therefore serve ye Me . (And Me alone)!” [Al-Quran 29:56]

Therefore none can give the excuse, that he could not do good and was forced to do evil because of the surroundings and circumstances.
4. Earth is geo-spherical in shape

The Quran mentions the actual shape of the earth in the following verse: “And we have made the earth egg shaped”. [Al-Quran 79:30]

The Arabic word Dahaha means egg shaped. It also means an expanse. Dahaha is derived from Duhiya which specifically refers to the egg of an ostrich which is geo-spherical in shape, exactly like the shape of the earth.

Thus the Quran and modern established science are in perfect harmony.

***