[55TRATTERENRY]

&
In India itself, the situation is pathetic among the Muslims with reference to regional prejudices and the zaat-paat, hasab-nasab nonsense.

Although in Islam hasab-nasab bias isn't permissible but sometimes a/c to Islam it is a considerable factor. e.g. Masail-e-Kufu

[Anckzxik]

Although in Islam hasab-nasab bias isn't permissible but sometimes a/c to Islam it is a considerable factor. e.g. Masail-e-Kufu

Is that not a self-contradictory statement, Sidi?
Do elaborate.

[55TRATTERENRY]

Is that not a self-contradictory statement, Sidi?
Do elaborate.

I sorry I'm not very well in english, apperantly it looks like self-contradictory. but I wanted to say this:

GENERALLY Islam prohibits hasb-nasab, but some SPECIFIC ISSUES it is considerable factor according to Islam. (general example, Masail-e-Kufu, specific example, Zakat problems regarding to Syeds, Khilafat problems regarding to Qurashis, etc.)

like Namaz is GENERALLY farz or Mustahab, but in some SPECIFIC EVENT, or conditions it becomes Mukhroh-e-Tahrimi, or Haram

If you can write it better, so please go ahead.

[saopinax]

Why do we desis just love starting threads, posting articles, sharing stories, making observations, and other posts devoted to highlighting the racism and other faults possessed by the Arabs when we possess all of those faults and then some at a far greater magnitude?

[Arbinknit]

Why do we desis just love starting threads, posting articles, sharing stories, making observations, and other posts devoted to highlighting the racism and other faults possessed by the Arabs when we possess all of those faults and then some at a far greater magnitude?

Don't you realize that this post of yours is just as racist? Saying desis are more racist than arabs, something that cannot be objectively measured, is just as silly as the other way around.

[wowwieholmes]

when I did ittikaf, a pakistani leader of teh tablighee jamaa'at in the masjid asked me "why did you marry a black woman? You could have married a pakistani or an arab, dont you know that everyone is white in jannah?". I told him that I had tried to marry a pakistani previously and was rejected because she was only allowed to marry pakistanis.

So dont think that pakistanis are any less racist than saudis. I have seen the venom of racism in most muslim communities and its the least of our worries too unfortunately.

I dont like how saudi is always pinpointed as racist because its sort of implying that everyone else isnt racist and also its blastiing a whole entire nation.

that being said, I agree taht these are problems, but dont think they are specific to saudis, lets just work on eradicating them rather than pointing fingers inshAllah. How many times does the maulana have a lesson for the children, informing them that they should pray behind whoever knows teh most qur'an and follows the sunnah, even if its ajami/non ajami, black or white, asian or european? if your not educating your own community but instead blasting other communities, know taht you are part of the problem rather than part of the solution regarding the issue of muslims not respecting one another

[saopinax]

Why do we desis just love starting threads, posting articles, sharing stories, making observations, and other posts devoted to highlighting the racism and other faults possessed by the Arabs when we possess all of those faults and then some at a far greater magnitude?

I am a desi myself and I think that I know my "own people." I've never said that what I am saying is not "racist" and a 'racist" comment is not bad in and of itself if you define a "racist" comment to be one that is based on race. I've never decried "racism."

What I have decried is our tendency on this forum at least, if not more generally, to start numerous threads, post numerous articles, share stories and observations devoted to highlighting Arab racism or faults while being blind to ourselves and our shortcomings. This is something that can definitely be objectively measured. Use the search function and see how many threads and posts you get devoted to critiquing Arabs as opposed to desis and you'll have your empirical evidence. Honestly, just use the search function.

Also, consider your statement that my saying "desis are more racist than Arabs, something that cannot be objectively measured, is just as silly as the other way around" (i.e. saying Arabs are more racist). If this is the case, why is it that only when this claim was made about desis that you decided to decry the entire enterprise as stupid but not when it was confined to critiquing Arabs?

Before you claim that it was because you had never read this thread before, ask yourself two questions, those being is this an issue worth lying over and would your forum activity log vindicate you?

[Arbinknit]

I am a desi myself and I think that I know my "own people."

Also, consider your statement that my saying "desis are more racist than Arabs, something that cannot be objectively measured, is just as silly as the other way around" (i.e. saying Arabs are more racist). If this is the case, why is it that only when this claim was made about desis that you decided to decry the entire enterprise as stupid but not when it was confined to critiquing Arabs?

Before you claim that it was because you had never read this thread before, ask yourself two questions, those being is this an issue worth lying over and would your forum activity log vindicate you?

I'm a desi too, so that statement does not lend any extra weight to your argument.

Anyway, my motivations for making a statement have nothing to do with whether or not the statement is false.

I really wish people would learn to keep logical fallacies out of discussions on this forum.

In any case, the reason I did not make the point earlier on in the life of this thread with respect to the stereotyping of arabs, is because it was made for me by amr123 in post #7.

The second part in bold was completely uncalled for. Why would you assume that I was going to lie? How about having husn al zann?

[saopinax]

I'm a desi too, so that statement does not lend any extra weight to your argument.

Most certainly it does because even though we are both desis, I am the one making the claim, based on personal knowledge, that we are as racist and fault-ridden as, if not more so than, Arabs. You on the other hand are not saying one way or the other but that it is an unprovable proposition. Your being desi has no relevance when it comes to making that claim.

Additionally, my primary claim is that we love to POINT to their faults; that we have the same and to the same or greater degree is a secondary claim.

Anyway, my motivations for making a statement have nothing to do with whether or not the statement is false.

I really wish people would learn to keep logical fallacies out of discussions on this forum.

It doesn't nor have I claimed that it does. I have only highlighted it because it supports my PRIMARY claim, namely that desis love to point to Arab faults but stay blind to their own (at least on this forum).

In any case, the reason I did not make the point earlier on in the life of this thread with respect to the stereotyping of arabs, is because it was made for me by amr123 in post #7.

The second part in bold was completely uncalled for. Why would you assume that I was going to lie? How about having husn al zann?

We are all inclined towards sinning and what I wrote was a warning and a piece of advice.

Furthermore, you conveniently ignored my challenging of your claim that the greater emphasis desis place on pointing out Arab faults on this forum, while staying blind to their own. I will help get you started. Here are some threads that you might find of interest:

Hypocrisy in the Arab world?
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...the-Arab-world

Cheap Human Life in Saudia
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...Life-in-Saudia!

Are Arabs Racists?
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...-Arabs-Racists

Saudia continues to head in the wrong direction
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...rong-direction

Arabs and what you think?
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...what-you-think

Making Hijrah and your kids
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...-and-your-kids...

Arab liquor stores in America-Umar lee blog
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...-Umar-lee-blog

The 'Best Nation': Arab or Muslim?
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...Arab-or-Muslim

Is it right to say Our Prophet Muhammad pbuh was an Arab?
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...uh-was-an-Arab

Non-Saudi teachers banned from teaching Qur'an in Saudi Arabia...
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...n-Saudi-Arabia...

Masjids Involvement with Arab communities ?
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...ab-communities

what happens if you die in saudi arabia?
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...n-saudi-arabia

Does being Syed means that you have Arab ancestry?
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...-Arab-ancestry

Bravo - Turkish PM Erdogan visits Mogadishu(Somalia)
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...shu%28Somalia%

[Arbinknit]

Most certainly it does because even though we are both desis, I am the one making the claim, based on personal knowledge, that we are as racist and fault-ridden as, if not more so than, Arabs. You on the other hand are not saying one way or the other but that it is an unprovable proposition. Your being desi has no relevance when it comes to making that claim.

Additionally, my primary claim is that we love to POINT to their faults; that we have the same and to the same or greater degree is a secondary claim.

It doesn't nor have I claimed that it does. I have only highlighted it because it supports my PRIMARY claim, namely that desis love to point to Arab faults but stay blind to their own (at least on this forum).

We are all inclined towards sinning and what I wrote was a warning and a piece of advice.

Furthermore, you conveniently ignored my challenging of your claim that the greater emphasis desis place on pointing out Arab faults on this forum, while staying blind to their own. I will help get you started. Here are some threads that you might find of interest:

You need to stop moving the goalposts.

Here is your original post which I responded to:

Why do we desis just love starting threads, posting articles, sharing stories, making observations, and other posts devoted to highlighting the racism and other faults possessed by the Arabs when we possess all of those faults and then some at a far greater magnitude?

As you said, there are two statements in that post. The first (the first portion in bold), I did not even adress, let alone deny. That one you actually have an objective measurement for (considering all the threads you managed to find), if by "we desis" you meant "desis on this forum". However, I never contested the point, so your furnishing evidence for it now and attacking me on that basis, is nothing but a straw-man fallacy.

However, I did call you out on the second part:

we possess all of those faults [including racism] and then some at a far greater magnitude?

To rephrase, you claimed that desis possess all the faults of arabs, including racism, to a much greater degree than to which arabs possess those faults, in addition to other faults that arabs do not possess.

There are over 1 billion desis in this world. Unless you take a survey of all of them, you cannot possibly claim to have objective proof of this statement. Your personal experience as a desi amounts to anecdotal evidence, which does not qualify as objective proof. Thus, you are wrong in saying that being a desi lends more weight to your argument.

It doesn't nor have I claimed that it does. I have only highlighted it because it supports my PRIMARY claim, namely that desis love to point to Arab faults but stay blind to their own (at least on this forum).

No, it doesn't support your primary claim. Your primary claim was the first one I highlighted in bold, which was:

we desis just love starting threads, posting articles, sharing stories, making observations, and other posts devoted to highlighting the racism and other faults possessed by the Arabs

The clause of "staying blind to their own" does not appear in your original post. Even if we accept your modified "primary claim", my motivations again do not support it because 1. they are not discernable to you and 2. I did not say anything negative about arabs in my post.


You need to decide whether the subject of your claim is desis or desis on this forum. The subject of your original post was simply "desis". You did not specify desis on this forum.

After I correctly pointed out the racism of your original post, you began adding qualifiers:

"we desis"
vs.
"desis on this forum"

Without that qualifier, I could only have assumed by "desis" you meant "all desis". Thus, your original second statement was a total affirmation that desis are more racist and fault-ridden than arabs. That is a racist, unsubstantiated statement. However, you then changed your statement to desis being as racist and fault-ridden as arabs, and possibly more so:

"we possess all of those faults and then some at a far greater magnitude"
vs.
"we are as racist and fault-ridden as, if not more so than, Arabs."

Anyway, I don't have time to get into every little detail. I think I've gotten my point across. In spite of the fact that you have changed your position, however subtly, since your original post, my criticism of your original post still stands.



I have left this point for last since it isn't relevant to the main topic:

We are all inclined towards sinning and what I wrote was a warning and a piece of advice.

Really? Do you affix statements like that to every single one of your posts? If not, then why did you do it that time, if you did not anticipate that I was going to lie? Any outside observer would have taken that little unnecessary comment as an attempt to imply that I did not have a good reason for posting when I did, and that you thought I was going to lie to cover it up, and that your subsequent explanation was merely an attempt by you to save face. But I won't speculate.

[Anckzxik]

Why do we desis just love starting threads, posting articles, sharing stories, making observations, and other posts devoted to highlighting the racism and other faults possessed by the Arabs when we possess all of those faults and then some at a far greater magnitude?

sister.
While I agree that we possess all those faults too, I respectfully disagree that the magnitude is greater in us than in others.
There is no smoke without fire.

[FreeOEMcheapestPHOTOSHOP]

Assalamualikum

The problem with us is that we point fingers at others witout trying to think and understand :
‘How does this problem pertain to me? What is my view point and practice about this problem?’
I find most of the brethren working in some Arab countries complaining that the Arabs think very low of the non-Arabs working in their countries. Such remarks make me restive and rash when I seee the same complainers (against Arabs) treating the Muslim labourers from Bihar like their bonded labourers without regard to their rights as Muslims and fellow human beings. A Muslim of whatever nationality or status is prohibited to treat other Muslims with contempt and disregard on any basis other than evil and sin. And it is not a sin to be a non-Arab or an Arab. It is not important whether you are an Saudi. Afghani or, Pakistani; what matters is whether you are Nooranie due to the spirit and faith of Islam. That is where we lack.Saudi Arabia,Afghanistan and Pakistan ,all,belong to Allah and Islam. Islam belongs to all of them and it is the ‘sole property’ of each and every Muslim.
INNAMUL MOOMINUN NA IKHWA
All Muslims are brothers.

[amotoustict]

.....

Hypocrisy in the Arab world?
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...the-Arab-world

Cheap Human Life in Saudia
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...Life-in-Saudia!

Are Arabs Racists?
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...-Arabs-Racists

Saudia continues to head in the wrong direction
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...rong-direction

Arabs and what you think?
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...what-you-think

Making Hijrah and your kids
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...-and-your-kids...

Arab liquor stores in America-Umar lee blog
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...-Umar-lee-blog

The 'Best Nation': Arab or Muslim?
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...Arab-or-Muslim

Is it right to say Our Prophet Muhammad pbuh was an Arab?
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...uh-was-an-Arab

Non-Saudi teachers banned from teaching Qur'an in Saudi Arabia...
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...n-Saudi-Arabia...

Masjids Involvement with Arab communities ?
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...ab-communities

what happens if you die in saudi arabia?
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...n-saudi-arabia

Does being Syed means that you have Arab ancestry?
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...-Arab-ancestry

Bravo - Turkish PM Erdogan visits Mogadishu(Somalia)
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...shu%28Somalia%

Interesting list. However, if you peruse those threads you will also see that some posters like to join in on those discussions with far greater frequency, intensity, and, at times, incivility/vulgarity than others. The "magnitude" of the propensities of our resident "desis" to bash Arabs is often skewed by those outliers.

....there are two statements in that post. The first (the first portion in bold), I did not even adress, let alone deny. That one you actually have an objective measurement for (considering all the threads you managed to find), if by "we desis" you meant "desis on this forum". ....

Do you, or any other "desi" on this forum, find this disturbing?

sister.
While I agree that we possess all those faults too, I respectfully disagree that the magnitude is greater in us than in others.
...

Then brother, would you say roughly equal magnitude? Or less so?

[Arbinknit]

Do you, or any other "desi" on this forum, find this disturbing?

Do I find it disturbing that people feel the need to constantly point out faults they may have seen in certain members of a racial group, and then ascribe them to the entire group? Of course. That's why I criticized Nooria's post in the first place, and then went to lengths to prove that I was correct in my criticism.

Then brother, would you say roughly equal magnitude? Or less so? As I said already, this is not something that can be quantified, so to attempt to do so is pointless.

Even bringing up the high frequency of posts made by desis about arabs cannot be a sound measure of a tendency in a particular racial group because 1. the majority of forum members are desi, so the chance that posts of that nature will be made by a desi are proportionately higher 2. it may be that those who post those threads are more active than those who would/do not 3. the sample of desis on this forum may not be representative of the entire population.

[Anckzxik]

Then brother, would you say roughly equal magnitude? Or less so?

Less so.

[amotoustict]

Less so.

Honestly?

[Anckzxik]

Honestly?

No, dishonestly.

[amotoustict]

No, dishonestly.

Thank you for your forthrightness. May Allah reward you.

[Anckzxik]

Thank you for your forthrightness. May Allah reward you.

Wa jazaka, akhi.

[Anckzxik]

From the blog of a Saudi woman:
Racism in Saudi Arabia

Again thanx to Abu Sinan for inspiring me to write this post about racism. the comment was made in this post and made me think about a problem that we (Saudis , Arabs and Muslims) usually accuse other of but never admit of having.

Let me start with my own country . Yes , we have a huge percent of racist here and their target differ from non-Arab to Arab to Saudi themselves. i know for a fact that it's not easy to be a non-Saudi here, people will look down on you thinking that you are mainly here to take our money from those Saudis who deserve it. If you are a non-Arab and coming from a third world country then you are filthy and stupid, we treat them the worst. If you are a non-Arab but coming from the west, American or European for example, then you are bad but at least smart, you have no morals cuz you are not a Muslim. If you happen to be an Arab, then you are a thief and should be treated badly and that you are always guilty of thinking badly of us. Muslims are not better cuz they have the wrong kind of Islam and we are the best, they all should follow our own interpretation of Islam or they will be doomed.

It's not easier between Saudis themselves. There are the Shia who are a non-Saudi and should be sent to Iran. There are the different parts of the kingdom where everyone claims theirs is the best and the rest are either not civilized or not religious enough.
The normal word for a black is "slave" or "Zebra" . And if a white woman is married to a black then he should be thankful his whole life for that, he shouldn't be mean to her not cuz it's wrong but cuz he wouldn't be dreaming of him marring the white lady.

Most of Saudi Arabia are tribes, so if you don't belong to one, you are called a non-Saudi. the worst case is when your father is a tribal and when your mother is not -such is the case in our house-so what do you do? whom should you belong to, cuz you have to curse the other side.

Racism is spreading all over the Arab world especially among non-Arab from the third world countries and blacks. Where are the Arabs from the Darfur problem? . Lots of Arabs don't like Saudis and even online i was faced by such rejection for being a Saudi without even waiting for me to explain myself.
I don't know is it because we don't like the Arabs so they don't like us or it is they don't like us so we don't like them back. who started this dilemma??

It's not like the whole Arab and Saudis are racist and there are not an exact number of that. But we keep blaming others calling them racist and close our eyes of what is happening in our homes. pointing a finger towards them and can not see their own fingers pointing at us.

It's a huge problem but how can one change that when inside of you there are a small racist?? should the law get involved in such things and hope that one day in the long future things will change ??
http://www.wafagal.com/2010/01/racis...di-arabia.html