[LICraig]

Salam everyone, i just had some questions on islam as i am not to sure my self.

Did Prophet muhammad (pbuh) ever directly say that Prophet Isa (pbuh) was just a prophet and not the son of god, if not, was it just god who said that Prophet Isa pbuh was not his son and just a prophet in the quran?, Also are prophets able to lie?

I ask this question as a non muslim asked me this.

A reply will be most appreciated, thanky

[metrocartockasur]

"Isa, the son of Mariam, was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how ALLAH makes His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!" (5:75).

"He [Isa] said: 'I am indeed a servant of ALLAH. He has given me revelation and made me a prophet; He has made me blessed wheresoever I be; and He has enjoined on me prayer and charity as long as I live. He has made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable. So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)!' Such was Isa the son of Mariam. It is a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) dispute. It is not befitting to (the majesty of) ALLAH that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! When He determines a matter, He only says to it, 'Be,' and it is" (19:30-35).

"And behold! ALLAH will say [i.e. on the Day of Judgment]: 'Oh Isa, the son of Mariam! Did you say unto men, worship me and my mother as Gods in derogation of God?' He will say: 'Glory to Thee! Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would indeed have known it. You know what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Yours. For You know in full all that is hidden. Never did I say to them anything except what You commanded me to say: 'Worship God, my Lord and your Lord.' And I was a witness over them while I lived among them. When You took me up, You were the Watcher over them, and You are a witness to all things'" (5:116-117).

[Al-Qur'aan]

[LICraig]

Thanky for the post, That answers the question about Prophet Isa (PBUH), so prophet Muhammed (pbuh) didnt acutally say anything directly on the matter, it was god who did.

But where all the prophets free from sin, and are they able to lie or saying something false?

[drislerfottor]

Bismillah
Why to say god when it is more appropriate for a muslim to say Allah.
It is mentioned in hadeeth or not, it is very obvious that Isa AS was only a Prophet. So I don't know why would that make a difference if our beloved Prophet SAW mentioned him to be a Prophet or not.

*************************************
Do we say Prophets were sinless?

I have heard people disagreeing. What is the truth? JazkAllah khair

All the scholars, of Ilmul Kalaam (experts in the field of Aqaaid and
beliefs) are unanimous that every prophet was free from Shirk (ascribing
partnership with Allah), Kufr (disbelief) and sins. (Shahul Aqaaid)

Allah Ta'ala has mentioned incidents of some prophets who were rebuked by
Allah for making decisions that were not contextually appropriate (judgment
by error). That is not a sin. However, due to their lofty status in the
sight of Allah Ta'ala, they were rebuked. An example of that is Rasulullah
(Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) granting freedom to the captives of the battle
of Badr. Allah Ta'ala rebuked Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) for
that. Granting freedom to captives was not a sin but an error in judgment.

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Mufti Ebrahim Desai
FATWA DEPT.
http://www.islam.tc/cgi-bin/askimam/...3306&act=print

[drislerfottor]

Bismillah
Abu Sa'id al-Khudri reported: Some people during the lifetime of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: Messenger of Allah! shall we see our Lord on the Day of Resurrection? The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: Yes, and added: Do you feel any trouble in seeing the sun at noon with no cloud over it, and do you feel trouble in seeing the moon (open) in the full moonlit night with no cloud over it? They said: No, Messenger of Allah! He (the Holy Prophet) said: You will not feel any trouble in seeing Allah on the Day of Resurrection any more than you do in seeing any one of them. When the Day of Resurrection comes a Mu'adhdhin (a proclaimer) would proclaim: Let every people follow what they used to worship. Then all who worshipped idols and stones besides Allah would fall into the Fire, till only the righteous and the vicious and some of the people of the Book who worshipped Allah are left. Then the Jews would be summoned, and it would be said to them: What did you worship? They will say: We worshipped 'Uzair, son of Allah. It would be said to them: You tell a lie; Allah had never had a spouse or a son. What do you want now? They would say: We feel thirsty, O our Lord! Quench our thirst. They would be directed (to a certain direction) and asked: Why don't you go there to drink water? Then they would be pushed towards the Fire (and they would find to their great dismay that) it was but a mirage (and the raging flames of fire) would be consuming one another, and they would fall into the Fire. Then the christians would be summoned and it would be said to them: What did you worship? They would say: We worshipped Jesus, son of Allah. It would be said to them: You tell a lie; Allah did not take for Himself either a spouse or a son. Then it would be said to them: What do you want? They would say: Thirsty we are, O our Lord! Quench our thirst. They would be directed (to a certain direction) and asked: Why don't you go there to get water? But they would be pushed and gathered together towards the Hell, which was like a mirage to them, and the flames would consume one another. They would fall Into the Fire, till no one is left except he who worshipped Allah, be he pious or sinful. The Lord of the Universe, Glorified and Exalted, would come to them in a form recognIsable to them and say; What are you looking for? Every people follow that which they worshipped. They would say: Our Lord, we kept ourselves separate from the people in the world, though we felt great need of them; we, however, did not associate ourselves with them. He would say: I am your Lord. They would say: We take refuge with Allah from thee and do not associate anything with Allah. They would repeat it twice or thrice, till some of them would be about to return. It would be said: Is there any sign between you and Him by which you will recognise Him? They would say: Yes. and the things would be laid bare. Those who used to prostrate themselves before God of their own accord would be permitted by God to prostrate themselves. But there would remain none who used to prostrate out of fear (of people) and ostentation but Allah would make his back as one piece, and whenever he would attempt to prostrate he would fall on his back. Then they would raise their heads and He would assume the Form in which they had seen Him the first time and would say: I am your Lord. They would say: Thou art our Lord. Then the bridge would be set up over the Hell and intercession would be allowed and they will say: O God, keep safe, keep safe. It was asked: Messenger of Allah, what is this bridge? He said: The void in which one Is likely to slip. There would be hooks, tongs, spits like the thorn that is found in Najd and is known as Sa'dan. The believers would then pass over within the twinkling of an eye, like lightning, like wind, like a bird, like the finest horses and camels. Some will escape and be safe, some will be lacerated and let go, and some will be pushed into the fire of Hell till the believers will find rescue from the Fire. By One in Whose hand is my life, there will be none among you more eager to claim a right than the believers on the Day of Resurrection for (saying their) brethren in the Fire who would say: O our Lord, they were fasting along with us, and praying and performing pilgrimage. It will be said to them: Take out those whom you recognise. Then their persons would be forbidden to the Fire; and they would take out a large number of people who had been overtaken by Fire up to the middle of the shank or up to the knees. They would then say: O our Lord I not one of those about whom Thou didst give us command remains in it. He will then say: Go back and bring out those in whose hearts you find good of the weight of a dinar Then they will take out a large number of people. Then they would say: O our Lord! we have not left anyone about whom You commanded us. He will then say: Go back and bring out those in whose hearts you find as much as half a dinar of good. Then they will take out a large number of people, and would say: O our Lord! not one of those about whom Thou commanded us we have left in it. Then He would say: Go back and in whose heart you find good to the weight of a particle bring him out. They would bring out a large number of people, and would then say: O our Lord, now we have not left anyone in it (Hell) having any good in him. Abu Sa'id Khudri said: If you don't testify me in this hadith, then recite if you like:" Surely Allah wrongs not the weight of an atom; and if it is a good deed. He multiplies it and gives from Himself a great reward" (al-Qur'an, iv. 40). Then Allah, Exalted and Great, would say: The angels have interceded, the apostles have interceded and the believers have interceded, and no one remains (to grant pardon) but the Most Merciful of the mercifuls. He will then take a handful from Fire and bring out from it people who never did any good and who had been turned into charcoal, and will cast them into a river called the river of life, on the outskirts of Paradise. They will come out as a seed comes cut from the silt carried by flood. You see it near the stone or near the tree. That which is exposed to the sun is yellowish or greenish and which is under the shade is white. They said: Messenger of Allah! it seems as if you had been tending a flock in the jungle. He (the Holy Prophet) said: They will come forth like pearls with seals on their necks. The inhabitants of Paradise would recognise them (and say): Those are who have been set free by the Compassionate One. Who has admitted them into Paradise without any (good) deed that they did or any good that they sent in advance Then He would say: Enter the Paradise; whatever you see in it is yours. They would say: O Lord, Thou hast bestowed upon us (favours) which Thou didst not bestow upon anyone else in the world. He would say: There is with Me (a favour) for you better than this. They would say: O our Lord! which thing is better than this? He would say: It is My pleasure. I will never be angry with you after this (Sahih Muslim, Book #001, Hadith #0352)

[LICraig]

Of course it does not matter to me, but as i said before i was asked by a non-muslim, because i do not know every single hadith and what it says as i am still learning, i do not want to lie and speak without knowledge of islam and just 'assume' what is and what isnt, so it is best to ask someone more knowledgeable

[LICraig]

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me

John 14:9 He who has seen Me has seen the Father

These verses are not true in Islam, but a christian would use these to justify prophet Isa (pbuh) as divine (Allah's son), do those verses in the bible contradict with anything else in the bible?

[ResistNewWorldOrder]

hmmmmm....it seems there is something black in the daal

[ResistNewWorldOrder]

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me

John 14:9 He who has seen Me has seen the Father

These verses are not true in Islam, but a christian would use these to justify prophet Isa (pbuh) as divine (Allah's son), do those verses in the bible contradict with anything else in the bible?

where did you find these verses from, were you reading the bible just to check what the christians say or did this non-muslim friend of yours pointed these verses out to you

[LICraig]

I was having a talk explaining to a christian on the fact that Prophet Isa (Pbuh) is not the son of god, pointing out other errors in the bible, but then he asked me to explain thoses verses in the bible, as a prophet cannot lie, then those verses are justified (so he says)

[Kalobbis]

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me

John 14:9 He who has seen Me has seen the Father

These verses are not true in Islam, but a christian would use these to justify prophet Isa (pbuh) as divine (Allah's son), do those verses in the bible contradict with anything else in the bible?

Yes it does

Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYMKQKSV0bY

[Kalobbis]

I was having a talk explaining to a christian on the fact that Prophet Isa (Pbuh) is not the son of god, pointing out other errors in the bible, but then he asked me to explain thoses verses in the bible, as a prophet cannot lie, then those verses are justified (so he says)

bro

Watch this, in it is mentioned the verses of Bible which says bad things about previous Prophets, like Noah (as) was a drunkard (astaghfirullah) etc etc.
Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYMKQKSV0bY

[Kalobbis]

On a side note:

Bible - Luke 19:27

". . . But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.”


JIHAD IN BIBLE:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCiMXV9KmNs

[Kalobbis]

Top 10 Reasons Why Jesus is not God - Joshua Evans - TheDeenShow

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW99U4JWNEc

As mentioned in the Video description:

Introduction [start time 00:00]
Reason #10 - God Can not be Born! [start time 04:00]
Reason #09 - There is unequivocal textual evidence [start time 05:05]
Reason #08 - No one has seen God! [start time 09:20]
Reason #07 - This was the not belief of early Christians [start time 11:31]
Reason #06 - Jesus Ate, Slept, and Prayed [start time 14:38]
Reason #05 - Jesus claimed that God's Knowledge is greater than his [start time 16:44]
Reason #04 - Jesus Explicitly states that he is not God [start time 20:10]
Reason #03 - Son of God? [start time 22:50]
Reason #02 - God does not change [start time 29:29]
Reason #01 - God is the object of Worship! [start time 43:05]
Conclusion [start time 46:42]

[smokeberly]

another way is to get your christian friend to come to sunniforum and many brothers/sisters can engage with him/her with thoughtful discussions. Otherwise you'll forever be a middleman. Actually be a middleman is not that bad as you will learn something too in the process, but participating in a discusion probably would be much more productive.

[ResistNewWorldOrder]

another way is to get your christian friend to come to sunniforum and many brothers/sisters can engage with him/her with thoughtful discussions. Otherwise you'll forever be a middleman. Actually be a middleman is not that bad as you will learn something too in the process, but participating in a discusion probably would be much more productive.

....Excellent Suggestion

[LICraig]

That is a good idea lol, but for now i will tackle issues with him 1 at a time, i dont want to scare him of by bombarding him to join a forum, but will do so if he is ready to know more about Islam and i will let him know, thanky for the help and links everyone, i will watch them now.