[FredderiK]

Pm please, it's important.

[Aminkaoo]

Welcome to the forums. Unfortunately PM is disabled for all members.

You can ask your doubts here, there are many knowledgeable brother who will be able to help

My personal advice would be to clear your doubts, but do not engage in a debate with a shia. Their concepts are based on lies and fabrications.

[thomaskkk]

as salaam alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu

i have a question is it true in battle of Uhud some sahaba left nabi sallalahu alahi wasallam and ran away while ali ibn abi talib ra was still bravely fighting them.. abu bakr ra , umar ra etc being among them ...

i was going through this and found very childish excuses from shia's ..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sahaba

see: Shi'a critique of the Sahaba

many of them they respesct because they did not give bayah toh abu bakr siddique ra ...

how true are these allegations ...

jazakallah khair for your replies

[FredderiK]

Do you know why PM is disabled?

I have debated whit a rafidi about the event of Ghadirkhum and the meanings of mawla.

He says this:
النَّبِىُّ أَوْلَى بِالْمُؤْمِنِينَ مِنْ أَنْفُسِهِمْ

The Prophet is closer (awla) to the believers than themselves.

One can also translate awla as "have more authority over".

Awla is an adjective, and is the root of the word mawla. Whoever is awla is a mawla. Now, what does the above verse mean? Ibn Kathir tells us:

Loyalty to the Prophet ; and his wives are Mothers of the Believers

Allah tells us how His Messenger is merciful and sincere towards his Ummah, and how he is closer to them than they are to themselves. His judgement or ruling takes precedence over their own choices for themselves, as Allah says:

[فَلاَ وَرَبِّكَ لاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ حَتَّى يُحَكِّمُوكَ فِيمَا شَجَرَ بَيْنَهُمْ ثُمَّ لاَ يَجِدُواْ فِى أَنفُسِهِمْ حَرَجاً مِّمَّا قَضَيْتَ وَيُسَلِّمُواْ تَسْلِيماً ]

(But no, by your Lord, they can have no faith, until they make you judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept with full submission.) (4:65) In the Sahih it says:

«وَالَّذِي نَفْسِي بِيَدِهِ لَا يُؤْمِنُ أَحَدُكُمْ حَتَّى أَكُونَ أَحَبَّ إِلَيْهِ مِنْ نَفْسِهِ وَمَالِهِ وَوَلَدِهِ وَالنَّاسِ أَجْمَعِين»

(By the One in Whose Hand is my soul, none of you truly believes until I am dearer to him than his own self, his wealth, his children and all the people.) It was also reported in the Sahih that `Umar, may Allah be pleased with him, said: "O Messenger of Allah, by Allah, you are dearer to me than everything except myself.'' He said,

«لَا، يَا عُمَرُ حَتَّى أَكُونَ أَحَبَّ إِلَيْكَ مِنْ نَفْسِك»

(No, O `Umar, not until I am dearer to you than yourself.) `Umar said: "O Messenger of Allah, by Allah, now you are dearer to me than everything, even myself.'' He said,

«الْآنَ يَاعُمَر»

(Now, O `Umar [you have got it right].) Allah says in this Ayah:

[النَّبِىُّ أَوْلَى بِالْمُؤْمِنِينَ مِنْ أَنْفُسِهِمْ]

(The Prophet is closer to the believers than themselves,) Concerning this Ayah, Al-Bukhari narrated from Abu Hurayrah, may Allah be pleased with him, that the Prophet said:

«مَا مِنْ مُؤْمِنٍ إِلَّا وَأَنَا أَوْلَى النَّاسِ بِهِ فِي الدُّنْيَا وَالْآخِرَةِ، اقْرَؤُوا إِنْ شِئْتُمْ:

[النَّبِىُّ أَوْلَى بِالْمُؤْمِنِينَ مِنْ أَنْفُسِهِمْ]

(There is no believer except I am the closest of all people to him in this world and in the Hereafter. Recite, if you wish: (The Prophet is closer to the believers than themselves.)

If any believer leaves behind any wealth, let his own relatives inherit it, but if he leaves behind any debt or orphans, bring them to me and I will take care of them.) This was recorded only by Al-Bukhari, and he also recorded it in the Book of Loans.http://tafsir.com/de...id=33&tid=41314

If you look at the Arabic version of Tafsir Ibn Kathir, you will see this under that same verse:

وقال البخاري عند هذه الآية الكريمة: حدثنا إبراهيم بن المنذر حدثنا محمد بن فليح، حدثنا أبي عن هلال بن علي عن عبد الرحمن بن أبي عمرة، عن أبي هريرة رضي الله عنه عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم قال: " ما من مؤمن إِلا وأنا أولى الناس به في الدنيا والآخرة، اقرؤوا إِن شئتم: { ٱلنَّبِىُّ أَوْلَىٰ بِٱلْمُؤْمِنِينَ مِنْ أَنْفُسِهِمْ } ، فأيما مؤمن ترك مالاً، فليرثه عصبته من كانوا، وإِن ترك ديناً أو ضياعاً، فليأتني، فأنا مولاه "
http://altafsir.com/...=0&LanguageId=1

You notice Ibn Kathir citing a Hadith in Sahih al-Bukhari, in which the Prophet cited Qur'an 33:6 as evidence that he is the mawla of all believers.

So, now, we know that the verse establishes the Prophet as our mawla. In that verse, the meaning of mawla is two-fold:

1. We must obey the Prophet unconditionally. Even if we disagree with his orders, we MUST still faithfully obey them.
2. We must love him more than we love ourselves.

This is the way in which the Prophet is our mawla. No doubt, we cannot call this mere friendship!

Going back to the link I supplied, here is the authentic Sunni Hadith:

عن أبي الطفيل (عامر بن واثلة) قال: «جمع علي رضي الله تعالى عنه الناس في الرحبة ثم قال لهم: أنشد الله كل امرئ مسلم سمع رسول الله صلّى الله عليه وسلم يقول يوم غديرخم ما سمع لما قام، فقام ثلاثون من الناس (وفي رواية: فقام ناس كثير) فشهدوا حين أخذ بيده فقال للناس أتعلمون أني أولى بالمؤمنين من أنفسهم قالوا نعم يا رسول الله، قال: من كنت مولاه فهذا مولاه، اللّهم وال من والاه وعاد من عاداه، قال [يعني الصحابي أبا الطفيل] فخرجت وكأنّ في نفسي شيئاً، فلقيت زيد بن أرقم، فقلت له: إني سمعت علياً رضي الله عنه يقول كذا وكذا، قال: فما تنكر، قد سمعت رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم يقول ذلك له


Narrated Abu al-Tufayl:

Ali gathered people at the Rahbah, then he said to them, "I adjure in the name of Allah every Muslim who heard what the Messenger of Allah had said on the Day of Ghadir to state his testimony".

Thirty persons stood up (according to another narration, several people stood up). They testified how the Holy Prophet held the hand of Ali and asked the people, "Do you know that I have more authority over (awla) the believers than they themselves do?". The people answered, "We do, O messenger of Allah!". Then he said, "Whomsoever I am his mawla, this Ali is also his mawla. O Allah! Be the friend of whoever befriends him, and be the enemy of whosoever is hostile to him".

(Abu al-Tufayl continued) Then, I left the place. However, there was something troubling my mind about this incident. Then, I met zayd ibn Arqam and said to him, "I heard Ali saying such and such". Zayd replied, "So, do not deny it, for I myself heard the Messenger of Allah say so about him".
Musnad Ahmad 4/370
Sahih Ibn Hibban 15/376, No. 2205
Al-Sunnah, Ibn Abu Asim, Nos. 1367 and 1368
Mu'jam al-Kabir, Imam al-Tabarani, No. 4968
Al-Mukhtaraat, Imam al-Diya, No. 527 (tahqiq of al-Albani)
Majma' al-Zawaid, Imam al-Haythami, 9/104 (declares all its narrators trustworthy)
Khasais Amir al-Muminin, Imam al-Nisai, 82 (Aal Zahwi, its annotator, declares its chain sahih)
Silisilah al-Ahadith al-Sahihah, al-Albani, 4/331, No. 1750 (declares the chain sahih on the conditions of al-Bukhari)

Why then did the Prophet first remind his Sahabah of that verse which makes him our mawla BEFORE making the Ghadir declaration? Every sensible individual knows that he was telling them that Imam 'Ali will be their mawla in the same way that he is under that verse!

In other words, the Sahabah were to:

1. obey Imam 'Ali unconditionally, even if they did not like his orders
2. love him more than themselves.

No wonder, Abu al-Tufayl was forced by this Hadith to convert to full-fledged Imami Shi'ism.
Link to the debate [click]

Doesn't he make a mistake with the meaning of mawla and awla?

Wa salaam.

[Vigeommighica]

Check the post of Bro.TripoliSunni. He is very much an expert when it comes to dealing with shias

[siflversonemunk]

as sallaam alaikum

at least parts of the article you have quoted has been written by a childish kid (saved) wellknown for his lieing. to understand this mentality please refer to http://gift2shias.com/2010/10/01/al-taqqiyah-revealed/



now the original source of this kids allegation on abu tufayl (amir bin wathila ra, A SUNNAH NARRATOR) is claim by a shi'i that someone called ibn qutaybah said he was 'an extremist rafidi'. in shia language this almost always means a shi'i said ibn Qutaybah said such and such. when this happens the results are like this (or worse):

http://gift2shias.com/2011/04/11/lie...ali-al-milani/

http://gift2shias.com/2011/03/29/jafar-subhani-claims/

http://gift2shias.com/2011/04/22/is-...was-distorted/

anyway if you dont get more replies here, visit islamic-forums.net who have probably already dealt with this

[Aminkaoo]

Extensive thread on corrupt shia beliefs: http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...-Twelver-Shias

Search the thread or you can post there, you will get help .

[FredderiK]

Zjazakalahoe gairan ya ikhwaan.