[Shootohoist]

i am personally not a fan of such poetry and can understand how it can be interpreted wrongly, and i don't think we should promote poetry where we can say that the poet should be excused because of their state of "ecstasy" or any of that mumbo jumbo

but in the case of this particular poem

brother Dawud, you keep saying people are defending shirk yet you fail to understand that they have interpreted the poem differently to you

its like for example someone says, "Allah is within my heart"

one person will interpret this to mean the love of Allah is within the persons heart

another person will say this is shirk, you believe Allah resides within you

do you see what i mean?

wa alaykum salaam bro.

Firstly, i also dont like these excuses related to spiritual ecstacy. Fair enough husnal dhaan lets not curse him or call him kafir as maybe you would be light headed after spinning round all day, but dont teach the damn poetry. If ur excusing his kufr, why would u teach it?

Also i know noone believes in shirk, but hulool is an established aqeedah within the sufi movement, its not something im just making up. Unless people are claiming rumi was not upon any deviant aqeedah then leave his work alone. Even if u dont believe it urself, u shudnt promote it to others or defend it.

I believe smaller issues can be overlooked if we agree on tawheed inshallah and that goes for all muslim sects and groups

[Shootohoist]

the funny thing is, as i proved in an earlier post, scholars consider things llike hulool to be shirk worthy of takfeer and execution within a few hundred years of islam when it first began to surface, and yet they said that everyone was a bunch of barelwis until muhammad ibn abdul wahhab came along 1200 years after hijra. Sufis have been around a long time and have always been detested by the ulema. By sufi i mean wahdatul wujood type sufis, not ghazali type sufis

[Rx-Ultram]

wa alaykum salaam bro.

Sister Aram is a sister. Brother Dawud, like it or not, you have reached higher levels of sufism.
Just see what happens because of company!
Wassalam
(I can manage to have little bit of grip when the poetry is in Urdu but once it is in English I completely get disconnected.)

[Shootohoist]

Sister Aram is a sister. Brother Dawud, like it or not, you have reached higher levels of sufism.
Just see what happens because of company!
Wassalam
(I can manage to have little bit of grip when the poetry is in Urdu but once it is in English I completely get disconnected.)

im a bit confused by this post bro. Could u explain what u mean about reaching higher levels of sufism?

[Shootohoist]

Bismillah
Dawud Beale;
I did not get the part of Ibn Arabi. He was controversial figure but scholar takes what is acceptable and reject what is not. this is how we suppose to be. Br. dawud, I am not deobandi or berlewi and our relationship to Allah SAW is not a monolitich one. I didn't get what salafi and deobandi have anything to do with Rumis poetry. it is shame we have reached a state where we can't appreicate the beauty of words and generally in absense of these ability, they end up getting wrong end of the stick. I do not wish to contribute to this so called debate between ghair muqalid and muqalid. Why can you not allow people a bit of leaway and see how things play up. I find any pathological stance generally lacking sincerety or humility. Anyway, you do not have to listen to Jalal Uddin Rumi (RAH). this reminds of one of these incident where laymen start to accuse one man of being fasiq because his teacher told him not to read quran and do adkar abudently. The shaikh instructed him because the insightful student was unable to see beyone what is apparent and he complain to the shaikh. After months of dhikr, when he started to recite the quran, every ayah open up with new meanings to him. the knowledge is rarely resides in the mind but in the heart. hence Ali (RAD) pointed towards the heart when questioned about knowledge. The faculty of aql is in the mind. What you are accusing others of is just like the laymen accusing the Shaikh and the student. Anyway just focus on being a good careing human. This is more important then being called a label.
Today we see things in black and white almost like a colour blind when in reality is full of colour.
May Allah open your heart and mind to beauti and may Allah forgive me for shortcomming.
Allahualam

i like u, ur a nice guy mashallah and i like ur posts, but im sorry i will never see shirk as something to just let people get on with. Shirk is non negotiable. Tawheed is the essence of islam and our reason for existence so shirk is not something that can be overlooked as it is spread through the ummah. I wont take the good and leave the bad of a mushrik, because this mushrik is hated by allah for his shirk and is destined for the fire and calls others to the hellfire with him, its a serious matter

[Rx-Ultram]

im a bit confused by this post bro. Could u explain what u mean about reaching higher levels of sufism?

You do not differentiate between brothers and sisters-that is higher level than differentiating between brothers and sisters. Get it?
Wassalam

[Plonnikas]

السلام عليكم,

This is ignorant bickering. Neither side has ever read the mathnavi or knows about Maulana Jalaluddeen Rumi , and both throwing accusations and defending.

Br. Dawud, Hazrat Jalaluddeen Rumi was not a Sufi of the type that today take his name to justify acting contrary to Shariah. He was strict on Shariah and correct in Aqeedah but he is being misrepresented by many to justify their own agenda.

As for the other side, br. waqasmahmahmood, the same difficulty applies to you as well. So if you want to approach Maulana Jalaluddeen Rumi then go through a modern-day true-Sufi and don't just pick up anything from anywhere and get excited about it.

Hazrat Maulana Hakeem Akhtar has written an urdu sharh on the Mathnavi, the english translation is also available, although it does not have the same enjoyment.

[avdddcxnelkaxz]

السلام عليكم,

This is ignorant bickering. Neither side has ever read the mathnavi or knows about Maulana Jalaluddeen Rumi , and both throwing accusations and defending.

Br. Dawud, Hazrat Jalaluddeen Rumi was not a Sufi of the type that today take his name to justify acting contrary to Shariah. He was strict on Shariah and correct in Aqeedah but he is being misrepresented by many to justify their own agenda.

As for the other side, br. waqasmahmahmood, the same difficulty applies to you as well. So if you want to approach Maulana Jalaluddeen Rumi then go through a modern-day true-Sufi and don't just pick up anything from anywhere and get excited about it.

Hazrat Maulana Hakeem Akhtar has written an urdu sharh on the Mathnavi, the english translation is also available, although it does not have the same enjoyment.

yeah true i just liked that poem when i went to a site...it got me excited so i got hyper and made a trhead sorry....... but i understand.. we gotta check with nowaday true sufiekram

[Caunnysup]

the funny thing is, as i proved in an earlier post, scholars consider things llike hulool to be shirk worthy of takfeer and execution within a few hundred years of islam when it first began to surface, and yet they said that everyone was a bunch of barelwis until muhammad ibn abdul wahhab came along 1200 years after hijra. Sufis have been around a long time and have always been detested by the ulema. By sufi i mean wahdatul wujood type sufis, not ghazali type sufis

You should check this book to understand the inner meaning of divine love expressed by Mawlana Rumi (RAH).

http://www.khanqah.org/books/show/en-ma-arif-e-mathnawi

A discussion on this book is going on in this thread.

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...ained&p=638978

[myhackingtosh_ws]

please for the LOVE OF ALLAH.......... just post RUMI kinda of stuff!!!!!!!!!!! plzzz for the sake that ALLAH GIVES US HIS DARDE DIL........ YA ALLAH PLZ GIVE US ALL some drop of how ur love tastes I looked for Him on the Christian cross, But he was not there.

I went to Hindu temples and shrines – but nothing.

I visited the Ka’aba in Makkah, I did not find Him.

I questioned learned scholars, but He outstripped their understanding.

Finally, when I peered into my own heart – there, and nowhere else, was His home.

Assalam alaykum,

"Forget your figuring. Forget yourself. Listen to your Friend. When you become totally obedient to that One, you will be free." (Rumi)

Wassalam

[Shootohoist]

im going to the shop to purchase some rumi poetry inshallah and i will read it and if is shirk i will post it all up here and u can all join me in hating this heretic.

How much is it for the thanvi?

[myhackingtosh_ws]

Bismillah

Higher level - just like in Shari knowledge there are scholars with insight and understanding so is in the area of suluk. Strength of belief and the effect of the heart is different from person to person. So one who is selected by Allah will be closer in their relationship. There are even different state of Jannah. Not everyon is equal in knowledge, understanding, insight, purity, wisdom, Ehsan etc. This is how we human are.

I will simply quote ' Wisdom is lost sheep/animal of the believer' So take it where you find it. I think you are equating Shari knoweldge with ilham. One does not need to be a scholar for Allah to grant them wisdom. It is not necessary that only learned scholar of Shariah will posess insight. One can't really learn it but acquire it with experience and blessing from Allah. I love Jalal Uddin Rumi (RAH). The idea commit shirk is more disgustful then forced to eat feaces. I also read poetry and have liking for art form. So I appreciate what the likes of Mawlana Rumi says. I do not see any shirk in it but a form of rehtorics filled with affection. You are right to state that our existance is related to belief in Allah. If one elaborate bit more, I would say, we exist purely as servent to follow every command of Allah without hesitation but with hope and fear. When love of Allah and His rasul takes over, to follow every branch of islam is not work but an enjoyment. Rasullah SAW said to Ayesha to the effect when he was extering himself in prayer 'Should I not be greatful to Allah' . Similar measures were taken by those These are the people who are intense in their love of Allah.
Not all us are intense though we follow. Anyway, I would request that you do not label people. What gurantee is there that I will be raised as a believer and surely all credit is to Allah and nothing is ours to be proud of. If one is averse to something fine. It is more important that we focus on our own condition first.
May Allah open our heart, purify it, fill it with awe and intense love so that we forget the transitary nature of this world.
Allahualam

:thumbs up:

[Rx-Ultram]

im going to the shop to purchase some rumi poetry inshallah and i will read it and if is shirk i will post it all up here and u can all join me in hating this heretic.

How much is it for the thanvi?

I love your zeal brother. I wish for its protection. I hope you'll proceed with caution. Rather than looking for shirk it will be more fruitful to look for Tauheed. I am sure you'll make all efforts to avoid excess (ghuloo).
Wassalam

[Shootohoist]

I love your zeal brother. I wish for its protection. I hope you'll proceed with caution. Rather than looking for shirk it will be more fruitful to look for Tauheed. I am sure you'll make all efforts to avoid excess (ghuloo).
Wassalam

ghuloow means to go beyond bounds and my hatred of shirk has no boundry.

Given all the rumi ive already seen from when i used to be a sufi i already know his kufr and when i became a salafi and read refutations of him the quotes i read were shocking.

However should it emmerge that he was free from shirk akbar and kufr akbar i will make a recantation inshallah after looking at his work. If he does turn out to have clear mushrik statements o expect everyone to condemn and stop showing happiness towards statements of kufr aoudhu billah

[artenotreah]

im going to the shop to purchase some rumi poetry inshallah and i will read it and if is shirk i will post it all up here and u can all join me in hating this heretic.

How much is it for the thanvi?

ghuloow means to go beyond bounds and my hatred of shirk has no boundry.

Given all the rumi ive already seen from when i used to be a sufi i already know his kufr and when i became a salafi and read refutations of him the quotes i read were shocking.

However should it emmerge that he was free from shirk akbar and kufr akbar i will make a recantation inshallah after looking at his work. If he does turn out to have clear mushrik statements o expect everyone to condemn and stop showing happiness towards statements of kufr aoudhu billah

dude,rumi doesn't need you or any dimwit wahhabi's recantation.did anybody place you on a throne or judicial chair to pass judgement and condemnation on rumi and deobandi's and did anyone entrust with the responsiblity to guide others on matters which you have little or no knowledge of? or was it your unilateral wet-dream ? rumi is accepted across the board by deo's.don't come here standing on a tawheed pedestal,as if we need to be taught tawhid,and tell us u deobandi's this and you deobandi's that,blah blah blah.If you believe that we hiding our 'shirk' than by all means you are most welcome to discuss deeni issues elsewhere,where the likes of the pervert wahhabi ati/aapi and his zealot-likes and dim-wits assemble.deoband is bigger than you and wahhabism and has done more for deen then the two of you combined only through the mercy and blessing of Allah.Allah has accepted deoband,and that can be clearly gauged by the success of just one offshoot of it being tj.You a first class idiot when you say in one thread that sufism started many centuries ago and then in the same thread claim that the west invented sufism.I think your sanity is betraying you mate.
It's extremely prepostorous and disingenius for you to claim that wahhabi's are hardcore propogaters khilafah and shariah as it was the godfather of wahhabism who was involved in the destruction of both.Not only that,whhabis have upto today not implemented shariah/khilafah,not even their godfather,where they rule/ruled.Ironically,it is the deviated deo sufis,defenders of rumi(r.a) and ibn arabi(r.a.) that have,with little wealth and resources implemented khilafah and shariah.

Please reserve your vitriol for your visits to other forums as it won't be tolerated here.

was salam

[Shootohoist]

the salafis aided their deobandi brothers to destroy the communist disbelieving enemies of allah, there was even a special terminal at the saudi airport that wa
snt just labelled terminal 18 or terminal 6, they had a special name for the terminal. They supported the afghan mujahideen with money, fighters, etc, when shaikh abdullah azam went to afghan he said from now on i follow hanafi madhab, i didnt come here to change the peoples madhab i came here to fight in the path of allah. The salafis are from the most ardent supporters of khilafah and shariah and many of them are losing their lives struggling for this right now in chechnya, somalia, kuner province of afghanistan and many more places, while many extreme sufi sellouts like the naqshbandi haqqani snake hisham says there can be no khilafah in this age and he works closely with the american government to spread kufr.

Ur clearly an undercover barelwi who dispairs at the idea that deobandis and salafis could work together and have an understanding of each other to the exclusion of mushik mubtad'ioon.

Like it or not, i intend to devote my life to bouncing between deobandis and salafis, cooperating with them both, building an understanding and respect between them, learning from them, aiding them in their efforts, and staying well away from barelwi sellouts who continue to cooperate with the puppet governments around the world

[Shootohoist]

ive been to leading salafi organisations like al kawthar and al maghrib and they are actively and openly supporting coopperation and love between deobandis and salafis to the exclusion of barelwis, they even told us to stay out of debates and leave it to the scholars, they even have signed agreements with deobandi scholars to cooperate and respect one another, like it or not, we are told to pray behind deobandis and not barelwis, like it or not, barelwi dawah is on the decline, many are coming to the likes of dr zakir naik or joining tablighee jamaalaat, sorry to say that your baatil is finished inshallah and salafis and deobandis are the future of this ummah, inshallah barelwis will be releagted to the dustbin along with qadiyanis and rawafidh and extreme sufis, while the dawah of tawheed goes from stregnth to stregnth inshallah. Salafis are now in every country in the world and more graduates are comong out of salafi institutions like madinah every year to spread tawheed to every corner of the globe

just one example is egypt. While your graveworshipping friends are supporting liberal secular democracy and such like, the salafis are pushing for egypt to become and islamic state inshallah. The salafis are working everywhere for the establishment of islam and allied with deobandis and other no mushrik muslims of similar pursuasion inshallah they will be unstoppable

[artenotreah]

the salafis aided their deobandi brothers to destroy the communist disbelieving enemies of allah, there was even a special terminal at the saudi airport that wa
snt just labelled terminal 18 or terminal 6, they had a special name for the terminal. They supported the afghan mujahideen with money, fighters, etc, when shaikh abdullah azam went to afghan he said from now on i follow hanafi madhab, i didnt come here to change the peoples madhab i came here to fight in the path of allah. The salafis are from the most ardent supporters of khilafah and shariah and many of them are losing their lives struggling for this right now in chechnya, somalia, kuner province of afghanistan and many more places, while many extreme sufi sellouts like the naqshbandi haqqani snake hisham says there can be no khilafah in this age and he works closely with the american government to spread kufr.

For your info,jihadi salafi's are a minority and have humility and respect for the deo sufis unlike you sahawi's and madkhalis.
doesn't it hurt you that the snake hisham had the taliban as guests of honour where the taliban praised them and condemned.......
hisham is no different to aal al faik and the wahhabi clergy,especially those in saudi and those workin for aali saud.

ive been to leading salafi organisations like al kawthar and al maghrib and they are actively and openly supporting coopperation and love between deobandis and salafis to the exclusion of barelwis, they even told us to stay out of debates and leave it to the scholars, they even have signed agreements with deobandi scholars to cooperate and respect one another, like it or not, we are told to pray behind deobandis and not barelwis, like it or not, barelwi dawah is on the decline, many are coming to the likes of dr zakir naik or joining tablighee jamaalaat, sorry to say that your baatil is finished inshallah and salafis and deobandis are the future of this ummah, inshallah barelwis will be releagted to the dustbin along with qadiyanis and rawafidh and extreme sufis, while the dawah of tawheed goes from stregnth to stregnth inshallah. Salafis are now in every country in the world and more graduates are comong out of salafi institutions like madinah every year to spread tawheed to every corner of the globe

so where does harris and the religious attaches fit in? do they exist within a vacuum---ok,this is beyond your level.
So what's wrong with everybody elses tauheed?are they the only people who are muwahhideen? and everybody else mushrikeen?

just one example is egypt. While your graveworshipping friends are supporting liberal secular democracy and such like, the salafis are pushing for egypt to become and islamic state inshallah. The salafis are working everywhere for the establishment of islam and allied with deobandis and other no mushrik muslims of similar pursuasion inshallah they will be unstoppable are you talking about the same goons that supported mubarak to his last??? they want to establish an islamic state? what next?

with your barelwi accusations e.t.c. I must say you have a rather stale sense of humour.

was salam

[Shootohoist]

noone cares what i do because im just one person who is part of something bigger inshallah and just doing my small contribution, even if i die tomorrow, wont matter, but the leaders of the movements need every individual to mobilse and do what they can so i try doing my bit inshallah.

Jihadi salafis are a minority? Where did u get that statistic from?

Also, no matter kind of salafi a person is, they always support shariah law. The same cant be said for the extreme sufi groups can it.

And you contradict yourself. You call me a madkhali, yet you say the only salafis who respect deos are jihadis, and yet im supposedly a madkhali who respects deos. Ur understanding of salafis is very limited and u need to take a chill pill, sit back, relax and BREEEAAATTTHHHEEE

[Shootohoist]

For your info,jihadi salafi's are a minority and have humility and respect for the deo sufis unlike you sahawi's and madkhalis.
doesn't it hurt you that the snake hisham had the taliban as guests of honour where the taliban praised them and condemned.......
hisham is no different to aal al faik and the wahhabi clergy,especially those in saudi and those workin for aali saud.



who cares about what you want to do? who/what made you so important?
that's rich coming from you regarding barelwis,coz amongst the worst collaborators with the enemies of Allah are the saudi wahhabi,or at least their religious and political leaders.



so where does harris and the religious attaches fit in? do they exist within a vacuum---ok,this is beyond your level.
So what's wrong with everybody elses tauheed?are they the only people who are muwahhideen? and everybody else mushrikeen?



are you talking about the same goons that supported mubarak to his last??? they want to establish an islamic state? what next?

with your barelwi accusations e.t.c. I must say you have a rather stale sense of humour.

was salam

im gonna start a thread in the well known ia salafi jihadi forum about the talibans so called guests of honour and we'll see what they have to say about it inshallah. Your accusing the taliban of affiliating with a taghuut. Id be very surprised about that if it was true, i would say they probabily dont know what a snake he is. Uve seen him all cuddled up with george bush right? U know their good pals?

Also the salafi scholars have never supported western governments, they do what they can to help and the same goes for deobandi scholars. The fact that secular salafi is an oxymoron is a very good sign of the movement as it goes from leaps to bounds. Only in sheffield two salafi mosques have popped up from nowhere in the space of a few months. Majority of the practicing youth here are salafi and they are taking sheffield by storm. Same goes rest of the uk. In most countries now, if ur not salafi, ur tablighee. Habbashis and barelwis and haqqanis and such like are a dying breed