[ariniaxia]

Salam Alaykum,

You should ask your reputable 'Ulama what to do in this case. We know that there are a great number of cases of intentional and well-thought out hate-filled incitement against Islam and the sacred personalities and symbols of Islam, but our response also needs to be within what is acceptable in Islam and wise.

[TheLucyLee]

Alaykom Salam

My post appears to be deleted..? Why moderator??
What is acceptable is what the prophet Mohammed SAW established.
Secularisation is nothing but degrading. It is the expression of denial.
Don't the scholars agree that the punishment for insulting the prophet Mohammed SAW is death?
Why is my post deleted for asking this?

As far as I'm concerned there is only halaal and haram.Knowing the difference and choosing halaal is following Islam.
And as long as people philosophize about what is wise instead of remembering what the prophet has ordered we are at a loss.

Salam Alaykum,

You should ask your reputable 'Ulama what to do in this case. We know that there are a great number of cases of intentional and well-thought out hate-filled incitement against Islam and the sacred personalities and symbols of Islam, but our response also needs to be within what is acceptable in Islam and wise.

[ariniaxia]

As far as I'm concerned there is only halaal and haram.Knowing the difference and choosing halaal is following Islam.
And as long as people philosophize about what is wise instead of remembering what the prophet has ordered we are at a loss. We present the situation to the 'Ulama. Based on what they instruct us to do we act accordingly. We can give them different options as to what could be possible modes of action in this case, and they definitely know about outright killing of the Shatim as well. It is not about philosophizing the orders of Rasul Allah (SAW), but rather of asking those more knowledgeable and experienced than us for the proper way to act.

[TheLucyLee]

Thanks for your reply. Surely their ignorence will be their downfall. That we already know.
And YES I do agree with you that we have made our whims and wishes our Ulema. Precisely that.
Lets look at that issue for the moment. We live in a time where opinions can be bought.
People are so ignorant that a group who calls themselves scholars can just say "so is so" and people will agree on most matters simple because they don't want to adjust their lives according to Islam.
It seems to me that many times we as muslims are bringing ourselves down to a secularist level of practicing our faith. A type of hand-me-down mentality. Some no longer even care to enquire how the Prophet SAW prayed, instead we want to pray like our Imams or scholars do even if they are wrong. Im sure you will find people praying without their hands over their hearts.
Islam is not some kind of worn hand-me-down information that changes according to whim. The source has not changed. The Quran has not changed.
If a famous scholar has broken arms hindering him from praying with his hands on his chest, then we do the same????
Most people in my family are non muslims. And I am sure what will benefit them is not going to come from any muslim knowingly not following the advice of the Prophet Rasullah SAW.
Where did this strategy of babysitting the kufar come from? Have we forgotten that they have brains just like us muslims? Are they not furnished with the capacity to recognise Gods words?
Then why do we adjust to some standard of illusion? Compromise our religion so we can get along.

"Some of the time it is our action that causes others to insult our deen"..
Yes, true. BUT it makes no sense to let the wrongdoings of a few, or even the fabricated wrongdoings of muslims in the media take hold as an excuse to disregard the orders from the prophet Rasullah SAW!

Today we have quite a few imams or so called scholars sponsored by the church. They are saying this publicly.
How can you assume then that they won'd be biased? Some imams bend words to make the christians more comfortable about their faith. "Spiritual son of God" instead of "son of God" etc.

There is a hadith about a blind man who killed a woman in her sleep because she used to speak bad about the prophet Rasullah SAW. It was later declared that this mans action was not haram.
According to this hadith the prophet Rasullah SAW had said that "no two goats would bump heads about it."
So if the PROPHET said that not even two goats would bump heads about the issue, how come we listen to scholars and imams with different opinions about this issue?!?

It is possible one could be accused of extremism for even discussing this issue today.
Funny how there is even a law that states that if a man confesses to a priest about a crime, he may not call the legal authorities i.e. police etc.
But Imams have no such obligation.

Brother, what do you mean when you say not to shout at a barking dog?
If a dog is properly chained, you can shout at it. If it is not chained,then something must be done.

The media is using anti islamic propaganda to fire up military efforts against or brothers and sisters.
The dog is off the chain, barking and biting. But we do nothing. As long as we can sign a petition here and there and feel like good muslims we are satistfied? Absolutely humiliating.
When I say lets discuss and try to change this, there are hardly any comments.
If I were to pose questions about growing my beard and hadith about such,then the comments would flood.

Good conduct according to who brother? The kufar or Islam.
Try this:

Call some brothers one at a time and tell them someone is going to kill you.
1.Lets see how many of them will argue that you should tell your attackers to bury you in a white sheet when they are done.
2.Lets see how many choose to come to your rescue!

That is the problem with the world to day.

Br Jamal
Rasullah SAW was told people will say all sorts about him. Their ignorance will be there downfall. Batils shouts a lot before its inevitable death. Also these countries are not islamic and some of the time it is our action that causes others to insult our deen. here is the irony, we are so far away from the teaching that we have made our whims and wishes our ulema and hence due process is not followed in dealing with this types of situation. Don't shout at a barking dog! Prove yourself by your action and speech what is better. Allah said to Musa (AS) to speak to Pharo in a nice manner thought The pharo declared himself to be God. So what are we doing?
Connect yourself to a reputable seassoned local scholar and under their guidance involve yourself in visible common good cause that benefits both muslm and non muslim. Present deen with wisdom and good conduct and turn to Allah for sincerty and ease.
Allahualam

[TheLucyLee]

Salam Alaykom.

Put it in perspective instead of asking what I'm on about. I did not disrespect you and it would seem that the negativety in your post is aimed at me.
Look, all I am saying is that we must follow the orders of the prophet, no more and no less.
You may speak about incomplete knowledge all you want. Fact is the only sources are the noble Quran and sunnah. Anyone with sense examines what he thinks he knows about Islam according to those sources. Simple enough.
If the prophet Rasullah SAW said one thing, and you say another. Well my brother I must believe the prophet.

You said:
"The sincere people tries to find commonality and tries to work for the betterment and gives due respect and the insincere busy themselves criticising scholars of Shairah and Tassawuf just like the secularist with their psudo knowledge of shariah!"

When someone depicts the prophet as a dog and some celebrate that person, then I AM NOT INTERESTED IN TRYING TO FIND "COMMONALITY" WITH THEM. And you say I should give those people "due respect"?
And "work for the betterment"?
Do you hear yourself?
Complete nonsense.

Bismillah
What are you on about? I loath people disrespecting the Ulema, are the inheritors of prophet. Those who criticises ulema are the worst people and the most ignorant because they know little and thinks they know a lot. Such people have made their relative understanding their whims and wishes their scholar (by reading english translation of few books or just because they have some knowledge in Arabic) and no different from those secularist in their approach in matters of deen. Some gets kicks out of insulting deen and the other abuses deen. Our enimies are both!! .
It is amazing that both of these people live in misery!! They are pathological hater of men and lack empathy and humility and delusion of grandeur is what they have!

In the time of tribulation, it is even more important to stick to orthodoxy. I prefer hand me down information then my psudo grasp of psudo knowledge. for 1400 years this hasn't been an issue which safeguarded the the foundation and today we have people with no or halfbaked understanding of deen thinks they are better because of their zeal. This is pathetic state of affairs and perhaps it is befitting that we don't have shariah implemented at the hand of these people.

http://web.mac.com/jawziyyah/The_Jaw...ding_Room.html

I hate ruybida! I detest them and anyone who encourages this desease. The common symptom with these low life they shout Quran & Sunnah without knowing what it entails. Like Christian evengelical thugs they exhibit the same tendency.
The sincere people tries to find commonality and tries to work for the betterment and gives due respect and the insincere busy themselves criticising scholars of Shairah and Tassawuf just like the secularist with their psudo knowledge of shariah!

Allahualam

[TheLucyLee]

Interesting beacause the word Ruyibida has only 1 hit on google, which is your post.
Nevertheless if you show me the definition I would be glad to read it.
The topic here is not about who has read more information. The topic is about defending the prophet or not.
You can read all you want. And learn all the arabic you want. But if you can't understand the concept of defending the prophet, I feel bad for you..

So in essence there is no scholarship according to you when it is in Quran and ahdith this are called for. Anyway, I have nothing to say as you seem to not realise what you are saying. One would think you have read all the books of ahadith and the commentary and understood every science of relegion. Which you haven't.
Know this I hate Ruyibida. Go and try find out what this word means in detail
So salam

The word commonality says it all be it muslim or non muslim. Who is talking about being friend with someone who insults Rasullah SAW.

[TheLucyLee]

Salam Alaykom

Look. Are you not aware that there is a man called lars vilks whom has made drawings depicting the prophet as a dog?
That was the topic of this thread!
I don't see why you are throwing words around to make yourself seem logical.
I have never claimed to be an expert on Islam? what is wrong with you, can you not understand that statement?
I'll say it again, I have never claimed to be an expert on Islam.
But if you don't think depicting the prophet as a dog is disrespecting Islam and ALL muslims, I suggest you seek medical attention because you are typing here in your sleep.

You call yourself a muslim? But you don't feel disrespected by these these drawings? SEEK MEDICAL ATTENTION.

With your logic, every muslim on earth must know every word in the Noble Quran before they open their mouth to defend themselves and their prophet.

If you don't feel disrespected by these drawings, then I am terribly sorry, but I don't see the point in discussing arabic words with you. According to you, everyone that feels offended when someone insults the prophet must simply humble themselves and learn the meaning of tafkiri,Shahi,ruybida,batil etc etc. That is your solution. Are you completely braindead?

I agree with you that I can always learn more. There is not a human being on the face of this earth who is complete in knowledge and I never made that claim. I know that I will never know everything. Perhaps some people died in Jihad before they even knew Al-fatihah. So why do you say I must learn arabic words before I defend my religion?? Think.

Delusion of gradeur and power of assumption knows no bound. Accusing others of dissrespect of Rasullah SAW shows your tafkiri tendency. Wow! someone has mastered books of hadith and Shahi sitta don't even know the word ruybida. Why not humble yourself and admit you know little and then start from there.

A Jahil is he who thinks he knows everything but in reality knows virtually nothing and a learned person is he who knows how little he knows and don't pretend to be arbitratior of haq from batil.

I think I have said enough and Thank you
Masalama

[TheLucyLee]

Salams

Thank you for the transliteration of the arabic words.
Every one alive today is an inheritor to the Quran whether they accept it or not.
Islam is not complicated, it is simple. It is not something mystical only for a few "learned" to understand.

We are making good progress in this conversation now that you can atleast state the obvious i.e. that no sane muslim is not offended by the depiction.

I never claimed Shariah is derived from me! HAHAHA! You say the craziest things.
Right and wrong is not a matter of opinion and I never said it was!
I believe you gain knowledge by following shariah. Shariah was given to us by Allah. Knowledge of the difference between right and wrong.
What does shariah have to do with anybodys "understanding" of self??? Nothing.
Shariah is not a matter of opinion based on any "self". It is what God ordained as right and wrong. Period. Nothing else.

You just said that no sane muslim is not offended. GOOD! Alhamdulilah.

For your benefit
"Anthesis"= The period during which a flower is fully open and functional i.e. Full bloom of a flower.

What do you mean by "insulting the inheritors of prophet is anthesis to this claim"???
What are you trying to say?

What I am saying is this: If someone breaks into your house, you don't need to ask a scholar or an Imam before you defend yourself and kill in selfdefence.
If someone offends your prophet then you shouldn't need to ask an Imam before you defend your prophet either!

Simple! Are you not sane enough to realise this?

Perhaps in the world that you live in Shariah can be derived by mere relative understanding of self.
Do you actually know the rule of forbidding evil and enjoining good. No sane muslim is not offended by the depiction. If one claims to love Allah and his Rasul, insulting the inheritors of prophet is anthesis to this claim.
For your benefit
Batil means false, Shahi = authentic, Ruyabida = ill learned, Tafkir = calling othes non muslim.

[TheLucyLee]

You are calling me many things. Thank you for your hasanat.
How do I repay you?
May I order you a pizza? Write your name and address and I'll order one for you. I have no other way to repay you.
Which toppings would you like?
Perhaps you can find some other people to call me names so that I may order yall a family size pizza instead.
Again, thank you very much.

Mashallah
So you are now also a muffasir and muhaadith and Faqih. Islam is not a complicated relegion to follow but to derive law is complicated. Perhaps for this reason Shaba only refefered to hand full of sahaba for Rulings and only select few were appointed and Rasullah SAW made specific dua for few selected sahab in matters of knowledge. By the way thanks for correcting my spelling 'anthesis' It means oppose to the subject.
By the way your example of forbidding evil is ridiculious. There is always a due process only khawarij felt they are beyond reproach in all matters. By the way how old are you?
the more you speak, it becomes more evident how little you know of shairah. Go and study usul of shariah. Then talk. otherwise don't waste typing!!
Here is power point presentation for your benefit
http://www.alqalam.org.uk/UserFiles/...%20Revised.pdf

Masalama

[TheLucyLee]

This is my thread. You go away!
And no, you may specify the ingredients. Pizza or any other takeaway of your choice.
I only eat halaal myself. Sounds to me like you need some actual nutrients in your diet to boost your brain.
Once you do that I think you'll find my opinion is not delusional after all.

As for my opinion about Vilks, it has not changed. He should be executed.
And you lack any coherent info to suggest anything else to be a correct course of action.

But your nonsense is very entertaining.

No thanks!! you probalby be ordering pizza with doubtfull ingredients. As for hasant, i am glad to be of service because one would need all they can get because they may not have much to show for arrogance and delusion.
Now go away!! Salam

[intorkercet]

I have never heard of this vik guy. I am getting a headache because of lack of brain power. I need vix and a nice pizza to recoup my diminishing brain cell