[Cengaeas]

As salaamu alaikum.

How can these demonstrations and rebellions be condoned while we have this hadith which clearly forbids such behavior:

Narrated Junada bin Abi Umaiya: We entered upon 'Ubada bin As-Samit while he was sick. We said, "May Allah make you healthy. Will you tell us a Hadith you heard from the Prophet and by which Allah may make you benefit?" He said, "The Prophet called us and we gave him the Pledge of allegiance for Islam, and among the conditions on which he took the Pledge from us, was that we were to listen and obey (the orders) both at the time when we were active and at the time when we were tired, and at our difficult time and at our ease and to be obedient to the ruler and give him his right even if he did not give us our right, and not to fight against him unless we noticed him having open Kufr (disbelief) for which we would have a proof with us from Allah."

[15Praxanant]

At least some of the rulers are openly kaffir. The leader of Syria, for one.

[lE3l6Lgn]

As salaamu alaikum.

How can these demonstrations and rebellions be condoned while we have this hadith which clearly forbids such behavior:

Narrated Junada bin Abi Umaiya: We entered upon 'Ubada bin As-Samit while he was sick. We said, "May Allah make you healthy. Will you tell us a Hadith you heard from the Prophet and by which Allah may make you benefit?" He said, "The Prophet called us and we gave him the Pledge of allegiance for Islam, and among the conditions on which he took the Pledge from us, was that we were to listen and obey (the orders) both at the time when we were active and at the time when we were tired, and at our difficult time and at our ease and to be obedient to the ruler and give him his right even if he did not give us our right, and not to fight against him unless we noticed him having open Kufr (disbelief) for which we would have a proof with us from Allah." Walaykumusalam

it is possible that the great black majority is being oppressed by the evil racist white minority/elite. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

VIVA LA REVOLUCION!

[UvjqTVVC]

how about not ruling according to the laws of Allah. is that kufr? i recall a sermon from someone called shaikh hudhayfi from madina? in the sermon he condemned the saudi rulers to have lost their iman because of the ayat....

Al-Maidah 44

Indeed, We sent down the Torah, in which was guidance and light. The prophets who submitted [to Allah ] judged by it for the Jews, as did the rabbis and scholars by that with which they were entrusted of the Scripture of Allah , and they were witnesses thereto. So do not fear the people but fear Me, and do not exchange My verses for a small price. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the disbelievers.

also what if a ruler is deposed through war and revolution and a new ruler takes over. does the new ruler become the rightful ruler or will his kingship become a legetimate target? and what if a considerable amount of time has passed? does that then mean that his rule becomes legitimate due to the passing of time?

[DINAKuncher]

I think the OP needs to question his intention. Why are you quoting a hadith which you have clearly not understood via interpretation of classical scholars?

Syed ibn jubair (may Allah enlighten his grave) rebelled against hajjaj ibn yusuf until he was executed. it was said that with his death the knowledge of the east and the west went with him. Clearly he understood were he stood against an oppressive regime.

Of course I do not condone any guy taking to demonstration and sorts without intelligence and self control. But if a person like Malcolm X can come off the streets and have a historic impact on civil rights then Allah can raise anyone.

[Qnnoshxj]

I cannot give you a hadith to confirm my statement but oppression should never be tolerated. So I think demonstrations and protests are permissible if they are against clear and open oppression. The events going on in the middle east currently are permissible in my eyes especially Egypt and Libya.

[Cengaeas]

At least some of the rulers are openly kaffir. The leader of Syria, for one.

So are you calling all rulers who don't rule according to the sharee'a unbelievers? For example, are you saying that Bashaar Al-Asad isn't a Muslim? Are you saying that Muammar Al-Qadhaafi is an unbeliever? Are you saying that Hosni Mubarak isn't a Muslim?

[BUMbaronos]

So are you calling all rulers who don't rule according to the sharee'a unbelievers? For example, are you saying that Bashaar Al-Asad isn't a Muslim? Are you saying that Muammar Al-Qadhaafi is an unbeliever? Are you saying that Hosni Mubarak isn't a Muslim?

Bashar al-Asad is an Alawi, they are not classed as Muslim. Gaddafi is not a Muslim and neither is Mubarak.

And regarding the hadith you mentioned, it is only talking about KHALIFAS who rule by Sharia. Now there is no khalifa so it doesnt really count. The hadith was talking about the likes of Muawiya and other leaders (who came after the first Four Rightly Guided Caliphs) who may have done some bad things but still were the rulers of the Muslim world and ruled by Sharia.

Mubarak, AlAsad, Gadafi, Saleh etc. do NOT rule by sharia.

The Prophet said, ‘‘The person must obey in whatever he loves, and in whatever he hates, in ease and in hardship, in willingness and un-willingness; except if he is commanded to disobey Allah. So if he is commanded to disobey Allah, then he should not listen, nor should he obey.’’ [Bukhari].

[Cengaeas]

how about not ruling according to the laws of Allah. is that kufr? i recall a sermon from someone called shaikh hudhayfi from madina? in the sermon he condemned the saudi rulers to have lost their iman because of the ayat....

Al-Maidah 44

Indeed, We sent down the Torah, in which was guidance and light. The prophets who submitted [to Allah ] judged by it for the Jews, as did the rabbis and scholars by that with which they were entrusted of the Scripture of Allah , and they were witnesses thereto. So do not fear the people but fear Me, and do not exchange My verses for a small price. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the disbelievers.

also what if a ruler is deposed through war and revolution and a new ruler takes over. does the new ruler become the rightful ruler or will his kingship become a legetimate target? and what if a considerable amount of time has passed? does that then mean that his rule becomes legitimate due to the passing of time?

What about Ibn Abbas's saying that it is kufr dun kufr (disbelief less than disbelief)?

[UvjqTVVC]

What about Ibn Abbas's saying that it is kufr dun kufr (disbelief less than disbelief)?

what is kufr less than disbelief?

[Cengaeas]

I think the OP needs to question his intention. Why are you quoting a hadith which you have clearly not understood via interpretation of classical scholars?

Syed ibn jubair (may Allah enlighten his grave) rebelled against hajjaj ibn yusuf until he was executed. it was said that with his death the knowledge of the east and the west went with him. Clearly he understood were he stood against an oppressive regime.

Of course I do not condone any guy taking to demonstration and sorts without intelligence and self control. But if a person like Malcolm X can come off the streets and have a historic impact on civil rights then Allah can raise anyone.

What's YOUR understanding of the hadith??? And with all due respect to Sa'eed ibn Jubair (RAA), didn't some Sahaba pray behind Hajjaj ibn Yousef?

[Cengaeas]

what is kufr less than disbelief?

Kufr that doesn't take one from the fold of Islam. That's my understanding of it. Do you have another understanding of it?

[Cengaeas]

Bashar al-Asad is an Alawi, they are not classed as Muslim. Gaddafi is not a Muslim and neither is Mubarak.

Those are strong statements you are making and you are responsible for them.

[Cengaeas]

And regarding the hadith you mentioned, it is only talking about KHALIFAS who rule by Sharia. Now there is no khalifa so it doesnt really count. The hadith was talking about the likes of Muawiya and other leaders (who came after the first Four Rightly Guided Caliphs) who may have done some bad things but still were the rulers of the Muslim world and ruled by Sharia.

How do you know who the hadith is talking about? And what does this part of the hadith mean:

"and to be obedient to the ruler and give him his right even if he did not give us our right"

What's the purpose of mentioning this if a ruler is ruling by what Allah has revealed? Is it possible for a ruler to rule by what Allah has revealed and at the same time not give us our rights???

[BUMbaronos]

Those are strong statements you are making and you are responsible for them.

Alawis worship Ali and so that is complete shirk and kufr. Ibn Taymiyya (rahimahullah) labled them all as kuffar and so have most other great sheikhs and imams of the past. Even Ali(RA) got rid of them.

Gaddafi is responsible for alot of black magic, he is helped by the shaytan. He used to arrest people if they went to the mosque too often. He changed Eid, and banned beards.

[Cengaeas]

Al-Maidah 44

Indeed, We sent down the Torah, in which was guidance and light. The prophets who submitted [to Allah ] judged by it for the Jews, as did the rabbis and scholars by that with which they were entrusted of the Scripture of Allah , and they were witnesses thereto. So do not fear the people but fear Me, and do not exchange My verses for a small price. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the disbelievers.

Didn't the Khawaarij use these verses as an excuse for their evil deeds?

[Ilaubuas]

As salaamu alaikum.

How can these demonstrations and rebellions be condoned while we have this hadith which clearly forbids such behavior:

Narrated Junada bin Abi Umaiya: We entered upon 'Ubada bin As-Samit while he was sick. We said, "May Allah make you healthy. Will you tell us a Hadith you heard from the Prophet and by which Allah may make you benefit?" He said, "The Prophet called us and we gave him the Pledge of allegiance for Islam, and among the conditions on which he took the Pledge from us, was that we were to listen and obey (the orders) both at the time when we were active and at the time when we were tired, and at our difficult time and at our ease and to be obedient to the ruler and give him his right even if he did not give us our right, and not to fight against him unless we noticed him having open Kufr (disbelief) for which we would have a proof with us from Allah."

My Dear Brother, Assalaamoalaikum

The "Arab Revolution" as these demonstrations and revolutions have been named has shown that in the Middle East (Arab countries) there are millions and millions of muslims. However, Islam is absent.

Brotherly yours
farook

[Cengaeas]

Alawis worship Ali and so that is complete shirk and kufr. Ibn Taymiyya (rahimahullah) labled them all as kuffar and so have most other great sheikhs and imams of the past. Even Ali(RA) got rid of them.

Gaddafi is responsible for alot of black magic, he is helped by the shaytan. He used to arrest people if they went to the mosque too often. He changed Eid, and banned beards.

Have you spoken to Bashaar Al-Asad to know what he believes exactly and then decided to label him an unbeliever?

Have you seen Qadhafi practice black magic? Do you know that he did the things that you say that he did and does that make him an unbeliever?

[Cengaeas]

My Dear Brother, Assalaamoalaikum

The "Arab Revolution" as these demonstrations and revolutions have been named has shown that in the Middle East (Arab countries) there are millions and millions of muslims. However, Islam is absent.

Brotherly yours
farook

My dear brother. Wa alaikum as salaam. I agree with you 100% - the practice of Islam is absent in the Islamic World.

[UvjqTVVC]

Didn't the Khawaarij use these verses as an excuse for their evil deeds?

i dont know. but if they did, does that mean no one else can use these verses anymore?