[Sheelldaw]

Due to growing materalism many muslims are living in debt all their lives. Many people are taking out huge mortgages that they can't afford. (The muslim community needs to set up a fund for housing and develop some projects in this regards). The other problem is people are literally going crazy and buying everything on credit. In the UAE I know guys who are earning like 14k per month who have gone out and brought a car for 450k (apart from the extra interest/halal interest to the bank). This kind of senseless behavior seems to be the norm not the exception in the uae. I would not be surprised if some of the indopak laborers have more savings and are in a better financial condition than many emirates.

This mindless extremism and materialism needs to stop. I remember a lady at my work place in london who was earning a good salary and her husband was also working and she told me she even brought her hoover by paying installments. We need to move away from this kafir lifestyle. Men with cars they can't afford, ladies with their expensive handbags and expensive clothes.

I see many of my generation in the UK who have totally forgotten how to live a simple life.

What happens with this kind of materialism is that a man loses all his peace of mind. He cannot even venture into a relationship with ALLAH as his mind is always occupied in such thoughts.

Anyway just some food for thought.

[xFZ3k8Mw]

what kind of fund/venture do you have in mind?

Can we gather 10-15 Muslims with sufficient money to set up a big fund for sake of Allah and not for sake of earning money. I mean most islamic banks provide financial incentives but keeping hight profit margin for themselves, not because the cost is more, rather because its a niche market and they can make more money here. So if 10-15 multimillionars can gather to from a fund, that would finance houses at bare minimum profit, while gaining reward from Allah they will build muslim communities. But can our Ummah find such 10-15 muslims?

[Sheelldaw]

See the problem abu hajira saab is that we are not organized enough nor do we realize the severity of interest. In the UK I can say with sure confidence that more than 90% of people have a house on interest. Most of these are not people who follow the lax opinion of qardawi but orthodox muslims.

Our community is busy spending millions on masjids and even more millions to outside the country. The problem of housing is a real issue. It is not a difficult project. It would be be pretty easy with the right finance. I had some relative of mine who gave away a whole house in charity but his own daughter had to buy a house on mortgage. Would it not have been better for the relative to instead give the house to his daughter? The same is true of the UK. We are busy funding programs back home and trust me a lot of money is wasted by such people who see it as 'free' money from the uk whilst our new generation in the UK is homeless/living in houses brought with haram money etc. I really wish some people would tackle this issue.

The future looks bleak for many of the younger generation in the UK and as a community we need to stop being complacent and realize something needs to be done. Every time I've gone to ulema with such initiatives and given them ideas unfortunately you get a lot of yes, yes and nods but nothing is done.

[xFZ3k8Mw]

Here is an idea..

Use this thread.. and present your different ideas. Publicize/Vocalize them. Who know some Allah's banda may pop up and say. "Hey I got all the funds you need, lets implement this particular idea".

[payporanymn]

I have seen such situations managed quiet easily alhumdulillah by some muttaqi brothers, they simply rented average accommodation or lived with there family, until they saved up enough money to either buy a house or to lay down a large chunk and borrow the rest interest free from friends and family. I believe that a fund should be setup to help such people who need to borrow around 30-40% of the purchase price to complete a purchase.

These same muttaqi brothers would simply state we would rather rent than "wage war with Allah" and they have inspired others younger brothers/sisters to do the same. In fact I think this method may actually be cheaper or equivalent to taking out a mortgage.

The other issue like brother london786 mentions is peoples outgoings are horrendous, the list of today's "must haves" is twice of what it was ten years ago.

[WaydayTew]

salam alikum,
thoughts as follows:
if person takes loan in good will and circumstances changes and there is trouble for not paying debts, person should not feel enslaved.
w salam

[vdw4Epsi]

How about setting up a home loan system like rent to own. People collect money, give it to a person who is living on rent and needs to buy a house. The money can be given to him on installments. The organization can even earn from it.

For example, let's suppose a person wants to buy a house in Madinah. The house costs around 200,000 Riyals. 10 people form a consortium. Each one gives around 20,000 (which is not alot). Then they buy a house and sell it to the person who needs it on installments for around 250,000. The benefit is very clear.

If people are interested in forming this, I offer them to make me their first client

[xFZ3k8Mw]

How about setting up a home loan system like rent to own. People collect money, give it to a person who is living on rent and needs to buy a house. The money can be given to him on installments. The organization can even earn from it.

For example, let's suppose a person wants to buy a house in Madinah. The house costs around 200,000 Riyals. 10 people form a consortium. Each one gives around 20,000 (which is not alot). Then they buy a house and sell it to the person who needs it on installments for around 250,000. The benefit is very clear.

If people are interested in forming this, I offer them to make me their first client

Very easy and nice idea. The only thing is that it should be structured properly and implemented in a Shariah Compliant way. If anyone want to write it out in a contractual form I will be willing to bring it to mufti saheb's attention for review.

[chinesemedicine]

i don't know how this loan stuff works, most people in the UK for example have a house on interest, some of them are using Islamic mortgages but others argue this is the same thing they have just disguised the interest as profit but you end up paying the same if not more on top the house value

with renting people say that its not as secure because one day you will need to retire and won't be able to afford the rent any more so its better to buy a house and pay off the mortgage by the time you retire

then there are taking loans from Muslims, but the value of money is always decreasing so if someone was to lent me 80K 10 years ago, i could have got a house with that, then when i finally pay it back 10years later the house prices have gone up to 250K so that money then doesn't have the same value it had 10years ago

it's like they have set up such a system that there is no way out

[WaydayTew]

it's like they have set up such a system that there is no way out

Salam alikum,
I would agree so, it is impossible for poor people to get out of cyrcle. The system is set up the way - so that rich are small community and get more rich and the poor stay poor and midle get poorer.

Inflation hit everyone, but for poor it is lost of value of money. The rich - play with money in speculation system (burses), so that they get money from money (open positions from loans for example) and even from interests, as interest are also commodity for speculators.

I would wonder if the burses are allowed in islam - probably yes, but under some conditions...
w salam

[iH1wMOhE]

alot of what Bhai London says its true. Millions are raised to build masajids for the sake of competition yet the blessings and virtue of giving karze hasana to a fellow Muslim are completely neglected.

Its attitude london bhai. One does not want to loan money to others because why should they help make someone elses dunya easy...................We don't look with the eyes that my fellow muslim will be saved from sin, I will be able to earn great reward and the pleasure of Allah. Unfortunately, its all about not wanting to see others do well in the woldly sense.

Alhamdulillah,Allah saved me from any form of interest when I bought my house and a family member,who is not even practising helped me buy my house. From that day, I made a intention that I will help people financially if I was in a position to do so. Alhamdulillah,Allah has given me the opportunity to help others out financially with good few thousand pounds given out in loans at the moment.

I can understand why people though do not loan out money as many have been burnt badly by losing thousands upon thousands to family and friends.

London, you know how people in our community have been burnt by people not repaying loans to family and friends or even just legging it off with the money. So yes, its something we should be encourage but in the issue where money is involved,its never easy.

[libertiespana]

How about setting up a home loan system like rent to own. People collect money, give it to a person who is living on rent and needs to buy a house. The money can be given to him on installments. The organization can even earn from it.

For example, let's suppose a person wants to buy a house in Madinah. The house costs around 200,000 Riyals. 10 people form a consortium. Each one gives around 20,000 (which is not alot). Then they buy a house and sell it to the person who needs it on installments for around 250,000. The benefit is very clear.

If people are interested in forming this, I offer them to make me their first client

Loan system is very risky... I work for one real-estate company with similar concept (it's in inception).. In this we build apartments.. we sell of few apartments to get the returns.. the remaining are given on rent/lease basis.

We can implement the similar concept... sell of few apartments first and give remaining on loan.. This reduces the risk of investors

If documentation is required I can help..

[FuXA8nQM]

i don't know how this loan stuff works, most people in the UK for example have a house on interest, some of them are using Islamic mortgages but others argue this is the same thing they have just disguised the interest as profit but you end up paying the same if not more on top the house value

with renting people say that its not as secure because one day you will need to retire and won't be able to afford the rent any more so its better to buy a house and pay off the mortgage by the time you retire

then there are taking loans from Muslims, but the value of money is always decreasing so if someone was to lent me 80K 10 years ago, i could have got a house with that, then when i finally pay it back 10years later the house prices have gone up to 250K so that money then doesn't have the same value it had 10years ago

it's like they have set up such a system that there is no way out

ASAK,

This is a very critical point! In the current banking system since the money is not backed by a tangible asset (such as gold etc), it tends to depreciate with time as inflation increases the price of most of the items in the system. So if someone has saved a lot of cash and is not taking interest, their money will lose value at the rate of inflation (which is always underreported). Since in Islam one cannot make money on money (I think someone has to buy an asset with money and then sell it at profit or loss to make or lose money) the current system that compensate for this loss of value is not allowed.

Therefore, anyone investing funds in Halaal housing has to structure this in such a way where this depreciation can be compensated, some profit is realized for the investors, and the folks buying house should be able to deduct some of their expenses as mortgage interest deductible (why pay money to the government - thats how guidance and Lariba structure their "rent to own" loan program). Amin housing co-operative (http://www.ameenhousing.com/) is one such example where people pool their money and help themselves and others buy houses, but overall I have not looked at them so I could be wrong. I am not sure whether Amin sell their mortgage portfolios to Fredie and Fannie like Lariba and Guidance to raise additional funds. So at least at the backend there is interest involved.

[vdw4Epsi]

Theres a hadith: ان الله في عون عبده ما دام في عون اخيه

Allah keeps on helping his servant as long as he is helping his brother.

So the consortium will be in constant help from Allah during the leasing period cause they are helping their muslim brother.

[libertiespana]

Theres a hadith: ان الله في عون عبده ما دام في عون اخيه

Allah keeps on helping his servant as long as he is helping his brother.

So the consortium will be in constant help from Allah during the leasing period cause they are helping their muslim brother.

There is no doubt in hadith... but its also a sunnah to be precautionary.

[xFZ3k8Mw]

i don't know how this loan stuff works, most people in the UK for example have a house on interest, some of them are using Islamic mortgages but others argue this is the same thing they have just disguised the interest as profit but you end up paying the same if not more on top the house value

with renting people say that its not as secure because one day you will need to retire and won't be able to afford the rent any more so its better to buy a house and pay off the mortgage by the time you retire

then there are taking loans from Muslims, but the value of money is always decreasing so if someone was to lent me 80K 10 years ago, i could have got a house with that, then when i finally pay it back 10years later the house prices have gone up to 250K so that money then doesn't have the same value it had 10years ago

it's like they have set up such a system that there is no way out

a. it is better to rent than to be involved in interest at any given time.
b. The time value of money is a indeed a valid reason to look into Islamic Financing Modes instead of a regular loan. The lender needs to secure this loss of value of money. But he should do so in compliance with Shariah. Alhamdulillah there are ways this can be done, either through the mode of Murabaha or even Diminishing Musharakah (which is also esentially a type of murabaha). Nonetheless the modes are available.

In the "b" you not only secure the perceived change in the value of money, but you can also make some profit from the deal. As long as it is not done with extravagant profit margin that under current conventional islamic finance models is MORE than the general interest amount on mortgage, I believe these modes can be very pleasant option. The lenders just need to keep in mind that a little bit of profit on the deal is sufficient and the rest is reward for them for helping a muslim in need.

[KasaBalak]

Due to growing materalism many muslims are living in debt all their lives. Many people are taking out huge mortgages that they can't afford. (The muslim community needs to set up a fund for housing and develop some projects in this regards). The other problem is people are literally going crazy and buying everything on credit. In the UAE I know guys who are earning like 14k per month who have gone out and brought a car for 450k (apart from the extra interest/halal interest to the bank). This kind of senseless behavior seems to be the norm not the exception in the uae. I would not be surprised if some of the indopak laborers have more savings and are in a better financial condition than many emirates.

This mindless extremism and materialism needs to stop. I remember a lady at my work place in london who was earning a good salary and her husband was also working and she told me she even brought her hoover by paying installments. We need to move away from this kafir lifestyle. Men with cars they can't afford, ladies with their expensive handbags and expensive clothes.

I see many of my generation in the UK who have totally forgotten how to live a simple life.

What happens with this kind of materialism is that a man loses all his peace of mind. He cannot even venture into a relationship with ALLAH as his mind is always occupied in such thoughts.

Anyway just some food for thought.

Are most of the Islamic organizations and communities in the UK subverted by the bankers ? Why usury based mortgages are so widespread among the British Muslims . Why are those Islamic organizations not
openly opposing the usury based loans ?