[Cemeuncex]

http://twocircles.net/2011oct16/deob...fi_groups.html

By Md. Ali, TwoCircles.net,

Moradabad: Hitting hard upon the Deoband school of thought, the All India Ulama & Mashaikh Board (AIUMB) has accused Darul Uloom Deoband, the centuries-old seminary, of promoting and encouraging “Islamic extremism” in India.

This was one of the hard hitting statements by AIUMB, a Sufi group, which also demanded from the Union government, reservation for Muslims and madarsa reforms by bringing in Central Madarsa Board during a "Muslim Maha Panchayat" (rally) in Moradabad on October 16.




Maulana Syed Mohammad Ashraf Kicchowchwi addressing the conference organized by All India Ulama & Mashaikh Board on 16th Oct 2011 in Moradabad, Uttar Pradesh


The rally by the alliance of Sufi groups, is clearly aimed to redefine agenda for Muslims and their politics in India. Its also being seen as coming of age of AIUMB, which was earlier not very exposed to media.

The top leadership of AIUMB alleged that Sufis have been there in India since centuries and Wahabi/Deoband ideology is a creation of only last century, which, with the help of petro-dollar, captured the political spaces meant for Indian Muslims, for instance all the Dargahs, Sufi Shrines, Waqf Boards.

So the priority of Sufi leadership, which claims that 80 percent of Muslims in India belongs to Sufi Sunni sect, is to fight what they call as their "due rights," asking the government to provide the ownership of Sufi shrines and Waqf Boards which have these Sufi boards under them.

" This is a fight for our due right. We are going to show the government our real strength and ask it to hand us over the Sufi shrines and Waqf boards which wahabis and deobandis have captured," said Maulana Ashraf Ashraf.

Importantly AIUMB leadership gave a call to its lakhs of followers to beware of terrorists who might try to make in roads among them.

" If somebody tries to reason out with you to support terrorist ideology, you pick up the person and hand him over to police," said Ashraf while addressing the gathering.

Apparently, the Sufi group which organized a press conference, had seen Urdu media publically boycotting them after accusing them of dividing Muslims.

Deobandi madrasas & radicalization of youths
Speaking at the rally Maulana Syed Mohammad Ashraf Kicchowchwi, the General Secretary of AIUMB said, "we clearly want to tell this to everybody that, we won't allow the Deobandis and Wahabis to grab the Indian soil by terror and violence being fostered through Petro-Dollars."

"Madarsas, which are being run by Deoband school of thought, are radicalising and poisoning the minds of innocent Muslim boys," he added.

AIUMB is a Sufi group formed by more than seventy eight Sufi Dargahs, including that of Khwaja Moinuddin Chishti in Ajmer and Hazrat Nizamuddin Aulia in Delhi besides several other Sufi shrines across the country.

Wahabi ideology encouraging extremism
The speakers at the Maha Panchayat, categorically said that the terrorism which has affected the entire world, including India, is not Islamic, but is being sponsored and inspired by Wahabi ideology.

Maulana Mahmood Ashraf, president of AIUMB said that the only thing which could be a deterrent to 'Wahabi terrorism' is Sufi tradition of Islam.

When asked what was the single biggest harm done to India by the alleged Wahabi ideology, Maulana Asraf said that Wahabism with the aid of Petro-Dollar, has destroyed the secular fabric of India by propagating the worst form of puritanical version of Islam, which considers, Sufism as not only un-Islamic but worst as Shirk (unpardonable sin, comparing Allah with anybody else).

Several representatives of Sufi Dargahs, highlighted the fact that Sufism, which accommodates people from every religion, is much more inclusive than Wahabi Islam which doesn't provide space for follower of other faiths.

Not only that, the rally was an initiative by the Sufi groups, which claim support of more than 80 percent population of Indian Muslims, in order to reclaim the political influence which the group once had in the country.

The rally which was attended by more than one lakh people, is also being seen as an effort by the Sufi groups to register their presence as a prominent representatives of Muslims, and thereby also as contender for power in various socio-political spheres.

When asked what he thinks of home grown terror, president, AIUMB, said that indeed there was some truth in the Home Minister's claim of home grown terror in India and Wahabi ideology is responsible for that.




A section of the audience at the conference organized by All India Ulama & Mashaikh Board on 16th Oct 2011 in Moradabad, Uttar Pradesh


Madrasa Reform
Importantly the AIUMB leaders strongly supported madarsa reforms, demanding from the government to bring the Central Madarsa Board.

"We urgently want madarsa reforms in the country through the Central Madarsa Board," said Maulana Ashraf.

The important thing to mention here is that AIUMB wants to use the idea of madarsa reforms by the Central Madarsa Board in order to check the Wahabi influence on the madarsa curriculum in the country.

Sufis soft on saffron terror
Interestingly the Sufi groups appeared soft on Hindutva terror. While talking about homegrown terror Maulana Ashraf didn’t use a word about saffron terror groups whose presence and involvement in several terror blasts in the country have been established by government agencies. Rather he went one step ahead and appeared ready to provide Narendra Modi a second chance if he apologizes for the pogrom of 2002.

"Narendra Modi might be acceptable to Muslims if he apologizes for the communal riot," said Maulana Ashraf, the General Secretary of AIUMB.

Muslim reservation
In the context of coming UP elections, when asked about their political ambitions, the AIUMB leaders clearly didn't want to limit their bargaining powers by openly showing their political cards, saying that at this stage their priority was to show their strength first.

On the issues of reservation for Muslims, AIUMB demanded for proportional reservation to the members of the community. It also asked the Congress led UPA II to implement the recommendations of Sachar and Ranganath Mishra Reports.

When this correspondent talked to the common Muslims who had come from different parts of Western Uttar Pradesh to attend the rally, they seem convinced that AIUMB will successfully change the current state of affairs.

"We will vote for whatever party they ask us to," said a group of youngsters.

Link: http://aiumb.com/Index.html

[antipenq]

I have always been sure of the idea that Deobandi version of Tasawwuf is impractical. It is evident from this article that though Deobandis agree with the sufis on the basic tenets of Tasawwuf , the Sufis (yet to be decided that who has the authority to speak for the Sufis , representing the whole) are not ready to accept Deobandis as Sufis. They are repeating the century old allegation of being 'Wahabi' against them.
One has to look deeper into the issue to understand this contradiction.The basic question which has to be addressed is that though Deobandis accet Ibn Al Arabi as shaykh e Akbar , the Jamhoor of Deobandi Akabir has accepted Wahdat ul Wujood , they accept the validity of many so called Silsilaas of Tasawwuf etc but why are they still being called Wahabis? A Deobandi will say that these are the 'fake sufis' who call us Wahabis but who are they to call someone a fake Sufi? Their is no agrred upon text of Sufism so that one can use it to classify someone as being real or fake. The tradition of Tasawwuf has been very diverse and its not a monolithic tradition at all. The real reason for these allegations in my view is that Deobandis have somewhat tried to establish Islam through Jihhad and Tabligh while Tasawwuf has historically served as an opposition to the practical Islam. Even the conflict can be seen with in the Deobandis. Sufis vs Tablighi and orthodox Ulama vs Pir Zulifiqar Ahmed Naqashbandi vs orthodox Ulama are some good examples.
The converse of the following verse has occurred.

Shab ko mai khoob pee, subh ko tauba kar li
Rind kay rind rahay, haath say jannat na gayee

[Ngwkgczx]

I have always been sure of the idea that Deobandi version of Tasawwuf is impractical. It is evident from this article that though Deobandis agree with the sufis on the basic tenets of Tasawwuf , the Sufis (yet to be decided that who has the authority to speak for the Sufis , representing the whole) are not ready to accept Deobandis as Sufis. They are repeating the century old allegation of being 'Wahabi' against them.
One has to look deeper into the issue to understand this contradiction.The basic question which has to be addressed is that though Deobandis accet Ibn Al Arabi as shaykh e Akbar , the Jamhoor of Deobandi Akabir has accepted Wahdat ul Wujood , they accept the validity of many so called Silsilaas of Tasawwuf etc but why are they still being called Wahabis? A Deobandi will say that these are the 'fake sufis' who call us Wahabis but who are they to call someone a fake Sufi? Their is no agrred upon text of Sufism so that one can use it to classify someone as being real or fake. The tradition of Tasawwuf has been very diverse and its not a monolithic tradition at all. The real reason for these allegations in my view is that Deobandis have somewhat tried to establish Islam through Jihhad and Tabligh while Tasawwuf has historically served as an opposition to the practical Islam. Even the conflict can be seen with in the Deobandis. Sufis vs Tablighi and orthodox Ulama vs Pir Zulifiqar Ahmed Naqashbandi vs orthodox Ulama are some good examples.
The converse of the following verse has occurred.

Shab ko mai khoob pee, subh ko tauba kar li
Rind kay rind rahay, haath say jannat na gayee

...can you elaborate on the bold part

[Cemeuncex]

I have always been sure of the idea that Deobandi version of Tasawwuf is impractical. It is evident from this article that though Deobandis agree with the sufis on the basic tenets of Tasawwuf , the Sufis (yet to be decided that who has the authority to speak for the Sufis , representing the whole) are not ready to accept Deobandis as Sufis. They are repeating the century old allegation of being 'Wahabi' against them.
One has to look deeper into the issue to understand this contradiction.The basic question which has to be addressed is that though Deobandis accet Ibn Al Arabi as shaykh e Akbar , the Jamhoor of Deobandi Akabir has accepted Wahdat ul Wujood , they accept the validity of many so called Silsilaas of Tasawwuf etc but why are they still being called Wahabis? A Deobandi will say that these are the 'fake sufis' who call us Wahabis but who are they to call someone a fake Sufi? Their is no agrred upon text of Sufism so that one can use it to classify someone as being real or fake. The tradition of Tasawwuf has been very diverse and its not a monolithic tradition at all. The real reason for these allegations in my view is that Deobandis have somewhat tried to establish Islam through Jihhad and Tabligh while Tasawwuf has historically served as an opposition to the practical Islam. Even the conflict can be seen with in the Deobandis. Sufis vs Tablighi and orthodox Ulama vs Pir Zulifiqar Ahmed Naqashbandi vs orthodox Ulama are some good examples.
The converse of the following verse has occurred.

Shab ko mai khoob pee, subh ko tauba kar li
Rind kay rind rahay, haath say jannat na gayee

Assalamu alaykum brother

The reason for me posting the article was to show the deobandi brothers that the barelwis are their real enemies, not the salafis. I understand that you dont agree with deobandis on every issue but please, for the sake of Islam, try to work with them and lessen the argumentation and division with them as we have bigger fish to fry. We are being attacked left right and centre, even by many so called muslims. Deobandis and salafis must unite against barelwis, shia, secularists, kufr sects (ahmadiyyah, qur'aaniyyoon etc), western secular capitalists, israelis, we have battles on so many fronts. deobanids and salafis do not consider each other as disbelievers and agree on so many levels so please bro, focus on unity with them so we can combine efforts on much worse enemies. Look at these barelwis. What enemies of islam they are:

http://sunninews.wordpress.com/

"“The Wahabi hardliners are spending billions of dollars to hurt the democratic and secular fabric of this country built over centuries through peaceful activities of the Sufi saints.”

Asked if he would include Darul Uloom Deoband and the All-India Muslim Personal Law Board among institutions responsible for the spread of extremism, the Maulana, somewhat indirectly, agreed with the questioner, saying they subscribed to an ideology that was aggressive and hardline.

The Maulana said the time had come for Muslims to send a message out to the government that “moderate Muslims will guard Indian soil against the influence of [Saudi] petro dollars.”



Dont you guys see? You all seem to lean more towards barelwis than you do with salafis. Deobandis and salafis, love the shariah, love orthodox islam, we disagree on relatievly minor issues. Meanwhile the barelwis are pledging allegience to the mushrik private part+cow worshipping hindu government of india and trying to influence the government into putting presureon the deobandi maddrassas.


You all treat salafis as the enemy #1 and this is a mistake by Allah!!!

[Ngwkgczx]

...brother dawud, just my personal opinion observation here, deobandis do not consider barelwis (or salafis) to be their enemy in a way that they put them in the same basket with shias, quraniyoon, and modernists.....and for common matters that concern the ummah or a part of it, the work done by the barelvi scholars and laymen on the blasphemy law in Pakistan recently is nothing short of brilliant, I think bracketing barelvis with modernists is quite unfair...

[antipenq]

...can you elaborate on the bold part

Walaikum as sallam Brother. I will translate it like "During the night hours i kept on drinking wine but i made Tauba in the morning. So i remained a drinker but yet i did not lose the paradise". The opposite of this verse has taken place. The person has lost both the wine and paradise in his efforts to stick to both.

[Ngwkgczx]

Walaikum as sallam Brother. I will translate it like "During the night hours i kept on drinking wine but i made Tauba in the morning. So i remained a drinker but yet i did not lose the paradise". The opposite of this verse has taken place. The person has lost both the wine and paradise in his efforts to stick to both.

....i understood that alright....I was asking about "orthodox ulema vs Pir Zulfiqar saab vs orthodox ulema"

[PekHyvac]

dr. ati railing against tasawwuf...seems like any other day...

Here's a simple measure to differentiate between fake Sufi and true Sufi: who is adherent to the shari'ah, even on minor issues? Who is lax on shari'ah, even on minor issues?

[antipenq]

....i understood that alright....I was asking about "orthodox ulema vs Pir Zulfiqar saab vs orthodox ulema"

Those who are close to the Ulama know it. A Maulana mentioned it on this forum as well and i hope he will attest it.

[antipenq]

dr. ati railing against tasawwuf...seems like any other day...

Here's a simple measure to differentiate between fake Sufi and true Sufi: who is adherent to the shari'ah, even on minor issues? Who is lax on shari'ah, even on minor issues?

Well , lets do onething. Pick any Sufi who you think is fake and mention his acts/words for which you think that he is a fake Sufi. I will try to prove from the classical Sufi texts , written by the Sufis who are deemed as real by the deobandis that the person whom you are calling a fake Sufi is perfectly justified in his acts/words. Kindly pick a "fake" Sufi and lets start with it.You need to know that the Sufi tradition is so diverse that it can accommodate almost anything.

[antipenq]

Assalamu alaykum brother

The reason for me posting the article was to show the deobandi brothers that the barelwis are their real enemies, not the salafis. I understand that you dont agree with deobandis on every issue but please, for the sake of Islam, try to work with them and lessen the argumentation and division with them as we have bigger fish to fry. We are being attacked left right and centre, even by many so called muslims. Deobandis and salafis must unite against barelwis, shia, secularists, kufr sects (ahmadiyyah, qur'aaniyyoon etc), western secular capitalists, israelis, we have battles on so many fronts. deobanids and salafis do not consider each other as disbelievers and agree on so many levels so please bro, focus on unity with them so we can combine efforts on much worse enemies. Look at these barelwis. What enemies of islam they are:

http://sunninews.wordpress.com/

"“The Wahabi hardliners are spending billions of dollars to hurt the democratic and secular fabric of this country built over centuries through peaceful activities of the Sufi saints.”

Asked if he would include Darul Uloom Deoband and the All-India Muslim Personal Law Board among institutions responsible for the spread of extremism, the Maulana, somewhat indirectly, agreed with the questioner, saying they subscribed to an ideology that was aggressive and hardline.

The Maulana said the time had come for Muslims to send a message out to the government that “moderate Muslims will guard Indian soil against the influence of [Saudi] petro dollars.”



Dont you guys see? You all seem to lean more towards barelwis than you do with salafis. Deobandis and salafis, love the shariah, love orthodox islam, we disagree on relatievly minor issues. Meanwhile the barelwis are pledging allegience to the mushrik private part+cow worshipping hindu government of india and trying to influence the government into putting presureon the deobandi maddrassas.


You all treat salafis as the enemy #1 and this is a mistake by Allah!!!

Walaikum as sallam wr wb brother. I understand and appreciate the sincerity behind your efforts and words but i think that the solution you are presenting is a practical impossibility for many reasons. I will explain those reasons if you want.

[antipenq]

Here Dr. Ati is simply ranting on against sufi as he labels everyone with the same brash stroke. he is going on his usual rant saying all fault lies with the sufi. He is as pathological as these missguided so called sufi in their hate of one another.

true. I have always said that i have some strong biases on the basis of my religious inclinations. You may call it some pathological obsession even. As you so the Sufis are biased as well but i need to mention that their biases are based on the preservation of their parallel to Islam tradition and my biases are rooted in Quran and Sunnah so i win.

[antipenq]

Dr. Ati is master of tassawuf and he knows how each sufi thinks and expereinces and can see into the heart of fellow men. So his rant is somewhat justified.

Br. Dawud
Focus on the place you live and don't split your hair with India. The deos if sincere have been through worse. So don't worry about it. If there is khair in it, Allah will provide a way.
Focus on yourself and the community you live in.Most of the deo,salafi, berlewi talks futile and rarely solves anything.
Allahualam

Those who claim to peep into the hearts are Sufis. My only asset is Alhamdulilah Qala Allah Wa Qala Rasoolullah.

[antipenq]

Mashallah, so you understand every single statment of Rasullah SAW and how each of the statment and verses was understood by past scholars. I think your tilte Dr. should be replaced with Allamah

Not at all. I just am enabled to understand them through the glorious and shinny chain of scholars who confined their minds with Qala Allah Wa Qala Rasoolullah. I belong to the epistemic chain of Imam Ahmed and Imam Ibn Taymiyyah who enriched the understanding of Quran and Hadith with their blood.

[antipenq]

so imam Ahmed and imam Ibn Taymiah (RAH) were also anti sufi. Very bold statment. Perhaps you have read somehting the entire world didn't know about or perhaps their statment read in context ellude different meaning. Anyway you probably know the sharah and their interpolation etc. Mashallah!!

I did not make that bold statement rather you concluded but i agree with the conclusion. Lets discuss the texts if you are interested as mostly your criticism stems out from your own views and is very distantly related to the texts. I am a Muslim and Alhamdulilah i do know Shariah to the extent that i can practice my religion and can make up my views.

[Cemeuncex]

Brother dr ati, is there any chance you could get teh admins to forward your contact details to me so we could talk privately inshAllah?

[Cemeuncex]

yes alhamdulillah I have heard teh very important hadeeth and we should all bare that hadeeth in mind inshAllah as I fear many of us are falling into the category of ruwaybidah ourselves currently.

I wasnt going to ask him a question though I wanted to discuss something with him inshAllah. Jazak Allahu Khair for your concern though and you are right, we should be careful about who we ask and where we take our knowledge from isnhAllah. May Allah put us into teh hands of rightly guided teachers who will bring us closer to Allah and make Jannah easier for us bi ithnillah

[delnisfernan]

Dawud
I never ask question about tassawuf to a laymen (non scholarly devoid of knowledge or usul of tassawuf) or anyone who is relaxed about shariah. By the way did you get to find out about 'Firasat' and more so about Imam Ibn Taiymiah (RAH). I can bet my bottom dollar if the salafist find out ( minus his name), they would be calling him all sorts.

Dawud join us in the thread 'Why do you believe Islam is the true Religion ? ' We can use your expeirience there.


Allahualam

[PekHyvac]

I did not make that bold statement rather you concluded but i agree with the conclusion. Lets discuss the texts if you are interested as mostly your criticism stems out from your own views and is very distantly related to the texts. I am a Muslim and Alhamdulilah i do know Shariah to the extent that i can practice my religion and can make up my views.

Why did Ibn Taymiyah praise some Sufis? Why were so many scholars of the past - the same ones who would say Qaala Allah and Qaala Rasoolullah - ahl-e-tasawwuf?

[larentont]

My only asset is Alhamdulilah Qala Allah Wa Qala Rasoolullah.

Nice advertisement but I'm pretty sure your assets are from many other maqaalaats as well.