[opelayday]

...Have shias ever controlled the haramain in the last 1400 years, just like the sunnis do these days....have they ever been in majority in the two Holy cities?

[heilyprollecyspor]

...Have shias ever controlled the haramain in the last 1400 years, just like the sunnis do these days....have they ever been in majority in the two Holy cities?

Salam Aleykum,

They did control them politically in the past but they were never a majority, an example would be the 'Ubeidi Shia and their Fatimi State which controlled some areas of north Africa both directly and indirectly by influencing and controlling weak sunni Ameers, they competed with the 'Abbasi rulers for al-Sham and they also competed with the Umawi rulers for control of some areas in al-Andalus, they managed to control al-Hijaz and the Haramayn from 965 to 1070 Miladi.

Here are some descriptions by some of our scholars who were talking about the Bida'ah of building on Ali's(ra) grave in Najaf:

دع خلافة بني العباس في أوائلها وفي حال استقامتها فإنهم حينئذ في قوتهم وعنفوانهم ولم يكن على عهد الصحابة والتابعين وتابعيهم من ذلك شيء في بلاد الإسلام لا في الحجاز ولا اليمن ولا الشام والعراق ولا مصر ولا خراسان ولا المغرب ولم يكن قد أحدث مشهد لا على قبر نبي ولا صاحب ولا من أهل البيت وصالح أصلاً، بل عامة هذه المشاهد محدثة، بعد ذلك، وكان ظهورها وانتشارها حين ضعفت خلافة بني العباس وتفرقت الأمة وكثر فيهم الزنادقة والملبسون على المسلمين وفشت فيهم كلمة أهل البدع وذلك في دولة المقتدر في أواخر المائة الثالثة، فإنه إذ ذاك ظهرت القرامطة العبيدية القداحية بأرض المغرب ثم جاءوا بعد ذلك إلى أرض مصر وقريباً من ذلك ظهر بنو بويه في كثير منهم زندقة وبدع قوية، وفي دولتهم قويَ بنو القداح بأرض مصر، وفي دولتهم أظهر المشهد المنسوب إلى علي رضي الله عنه بناحية النجف، وإلا فقبل ذلك لم يكن أحد يقول إن قبر علي هناك وإنما دفن علي رضي الله عنه بقصر الإمارة بالكوفة، وإنما ذكروا أن بعضهم حكى عن الرشيد أنه جاء إلى بقعة هناك وجعل يعتذر إلى المدفون فيها، فقالوا إنه علي وإنه اعتذر إليه مما فعل بولده، فقالوا هذا قبر علي، وقد قال قوم إنه قبر المغيرة بن شعبة

"Let's leave the beginning of the Caliphate of Bani al-'Abbas alone since back then they were strong, dominant and they walked a steady path, there was none of these innovations during the days of the Sahaba and the Tabi'een and those who followed them in the lands of Islam, not in Hijaz or Yemen or Sham or Iraq or Egypt or Khurasan nor al-Maghrib, back then there was no Mashhad(building) on the grave of the Prophet SAWS or the grave of any companion or household member or pious man, these Mashahid are Muhdath(newly invented) in general, after these days we witnessed the appearance and spreading of such things when the government of bani al-'Abbas became weaker and the Ummah was divided and the Zanadiqah increased and those who sowed confusion among the Muslims increased, the words of Ahlul-Bida'ah spread among them during the days of the government of al-Muqtadir in the end of the third century hijri, then appeared the Qaramitah the 'Ubeidiyyah the Qidahiyyah in the lands of al-Maghrib and they moved to Egypt and near this time bani Buweih had appeared with their strong Zandaqah and Bida'ah, during their government the strength of banu Qidah increased in Egypt and the Mashhad which is attributed to 'Ali (ra) appeared in al-Najaf while before this no one would say that his grave was there but they would say that he was buried in the house of Imarah in Kufah, however some of them had mentioned that some folks among them said that al-Rasheed would come to an area there and used to apologise to the one buried in it thus they claimed that this was 'Ali's grave and that he was apologising for what he did to his progeny while some had said that was the grave of al-Mugheerah ibn Shu'ubah (ra)..."

source: Ibn Tayymiyah in al-Fatawi 27/245.

وكان شيعياً جلداً أظهر بالنجف قبراً زعم أنه قبر الإمام علي وبنى عليه المشهد وأقام شعار الرفض ومأتم عاشوراء والاعتزال
فنحمد الله على العافية فلقد جرى على الإسلام في المائة الرابعة بلاء شديد بالدولة العبيدية بالمغرب، وبالدولة البويهية بالمشرق وبالأعراب القرامطة فالأمر لله تعالى


al-Thahabi said about the Buweihi: "He was a pure Shia and he made in al-Najaf a grave and claimed that it belonged to Imam 'Ali then he built a Mashhad on it and established the slogan of Rafdh and the Maatam of 'Ashuraa and the I'itizal..."
al-Thahabi ended his talk by saying: "Praise be to Allah for our health since many horrible things happened to Islam in the fourth century because of the 'Ubeidi state in al-Maghrib and the Buweihi in the east and the A'arab(wondering Arabs) of the Qaramitah, verily the entire matter is in the hands of Allah."

source: Siyar A'alam al-Nubalaa 16/250-252.

وقد امتلأت البلاد رفضاً وسباً للصحابة من بني بويه وبني حمدان والفاطميين، وكل ملوك البلاد مصراً وشاماً وعراقاً وخراسان وغير ذلك من البلاد كانوا رفضاً وكذلك الحجاز وغيره، وغالب بلاد المغرب، وكثر السب والتكفير منهم للصحابة

Ibn Katheer said about the events of 347 hijri: "The lands were filled with Rafdh and cursing of the Sahaba by Bani Buweih and bani Hamdan and the Fatimis, the kings of the lands in egypt and sham and 'iraq and khurasan and others were Rafidhah as well as in Hijaz and most of the Maghrib, insulting the Sahaba and making Takfeer on them increased."

source: al-Bidayah wal-Nihayah 11/233 copied from al-Qubouriyah fil-Yaman pg118.

وقال الشافعي ـ رحمه الله : ولم أر قبور المهاجرين والأنصار مجصصة، قال الراوي عن طاووس : ((إن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم نهى أن تبنى القبور أو تجصص ـ قال الشافعي: وقد رأيت من الولاة من يهدم بمكة ما يبنى فيها فلم أرَ الفقهاء يعيبون ذلك


al-Shafi'i said: "I never saw the graves of the Mouhajiroun or the Ansar decorated with pain", the narrator said: Tawoos said: "The Prophet SAWS forbade that buildings be built on graves or that they be painted." al-Shafi'i said: "I saw some of the rulers in Mecca demolishing what was built in it and I never saw any of the Fuqahaa(scholars) condemn it."

source: al-Qubouriyah fil-Yaman 132-133.

[opelayday]

...so for their period of control was 105 years out of 1432...pretty similar to their proportion in the muslim world...

[heilyprollecyspor]

...so for their period of control was 105 years out of 1432...pretty similar to their proportion in the muslim world...

Yes and they tried their hardest to turn everyone into a Shia but the people were not convinced, you know the story of al-Azhar and why it was built... the only way they maganed to convert muslims to Shi'ism is by threatening them like al-Safawi did in Iran.

I also want to warn the brothers that if we're not cautious in dealing with Iran, they may rule us and then you'll see what true horror is.

و عليك السلام

[refsherne]

Yes and they tried their hardest to turn everyone into a Shia but the people were not convinced, you know the story of al-Azhar and why it was built... the only way they maganed to convert muslims to Shi'ism is by threatening them like al-Safawi did in Iran.

As-salamu alaikum wa rahmatu Allahi wa barakatuh

What is the story behind al-Azhar? How extensive was the Shia conversion program? What methods did they use in the rest of the Muslim world, i.e. other than Iran.

I also want to warn the brothers that if we're not cautious in dealing with Iran, they may rule us and then you'll see what true horror is.

God forbid.

[heilyprollecyspor]

As-salamu alaikum wa rahmatu Allahi wa barakatuh

What is the story behind al-Azhar? How extensive was the Shia conversion program? What methods did they use in the rest of the Muslim world, i.e. other than Iran.

God forbid.

wa 'Aleykum el-Salam,

They built it in order to convert people to Shi'ism and now it's one of the biggest Islamic universities, so it backfired on them.

they use the same methods they're using today, emotional arguments mainly and gaining the trust by using taqqiyah then they spread the real poison, for example in our days they open and fund a lot of websites and in the old days they would gather people in mosques and Majalis and make them listen to pro-Shia Khutbas... they would also pay the scholars of weak Iman to spread Fitnah between their followers just like this Syrian Mufti:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=S2DGanMWMcg

[neguoogleX]

Salam Alaikum,

The Shias were never majority and they will never be (inshAllah) because Allah (swt) does not want the deviants to take over or hijack the religion of Islam.

[CGECngjA]

Salam Alaikum,

The Shias were never majority and they will never be (inshAllah) because Allah (swt) does not want the deviants to take over or hijack the religion of Islam.

Devients have, in the past, had some control over the Haramayn. Afterall, the Qaramitah stole the Hajar al-Aswad during their time.

[neguoogleX]

Devients have, in the past, had some control over the Haramayn. Afterall, the Qaramitah stole the Hajar al-Aswad during their time.

Salam Alaikum,

I know but they were still a minority like today.