[ceagstuntee]

I read tehse two terms in another thread and was unfamiliar with them and also I read that there are different types of deobandi who oppose each other so without any arguements, could someone give me an article or detailed explanation on this issue, its origins, what thet differ over, how big the groups are etc, inshAllah a detailed analysis of this as its news to me and I never heard of it before this thread:

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...rustami-Salafi

[Q0KmoR8K]

I read tehse two terms in another thread and was unfamiliar with them and also I read that there are different types of deobandi who oppose each other so without any arguements, could someone give me an article or detailed explanation on this issue, its origins, what thet differ over, how big the groups are etc, inshAllah a detailed analysis of this as its news to me and I never heard of it before this thread:

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...rustami-Salafi

oh i'm glad you asked... i wanted to find out what is hayatiand mamati but i guess i did'nt want to be the one asking "obvious" questions again! lol! i hope suomeone can give a detailed answer.

[twiffatticy]

Regarding the life of the Prophet in grave Answered By: Mufti Ikram ul Haq - Fatwa Center of America

Question:
As salam wale kum mufti saab What are hayati and mamati deobandis

Answer:

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

الجواب حامداومصليا
Some scholars of Islam have expressed difference in their opinion regarding the life of the Holy Prophet Sallallahu Alaihe Wa Sallam in his blessed grave.
Those who believe that he is alive in his grave are presumably called "Hayatis" and those who believe that he like any other in his grave are presumably called "Mamatis".
One should understand that the reliability of Imaan does not depend upon this belief, so to say; Hayatis are Kafir or Mamatis are Kafir is utterly wrong.
However, one view may have stronger support in light of the Ahadith and sources of Shariah than the other but ultimately one should not ponder deeply into such contentious issues that it becomes the sole focus of his practice.
The difference of opinion is natural when there isn't a clear cut command regarding a matter.
Therefore, one should learn the Hadith of the Prophet Sallallahu Alaihe Wa Sallam and adopt it in practice.
By reading the Ahadith, one comes to understand, that the Holy Prophet Sallallahu Alaihe Wa Sallam is alive in his blessed grave but this life is not like the life of this world. It is completely different from the life of this world.
The Prophet Sallallahu Alaihe Wa Sallam by the will of Allah can hear the Salam of he who sends it while at the grave and he responds to the Salam as well.
And Allah knows best.
Mufti Ikram ul Haq
Darul Ifta of Rhode Island
19 Rajab 1431/ July 1 2010

[karaburatoreror]

Regarding the life of the Prophet in grave Answered By: Mufti Ikram ul Haq - Fatwa Center of America

Question:
As salam wale kum mufti saab What are hayati and mamati deobandis

Answer:

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

الجواب حامداومصليا
Some scholars of Islam have expressed difference in their opinion regarding the life of the Holy Prophet Sallallahu Alaihe Wa Sallam in his blessed grave.
Those who believe that he is alive in his grave are presumably called "Hayatis" and those who believe that he like any other in his grave are presumably called "Mamatis".
One should understand that the reliability of Imaan does not depend upon this belief, so to say; Hayatis are Kafir or Mamatis are Kafir is utterly wrong.
However, one view may have stronger support in light of the Ahadith and sources of Shariah than the other but ultimately one should not ponder deeply into such contentious issues that it becomes the sole focus of his practice.
The difference of opinion is natural when there isn't a clear cut command regarding a matter.
Therefore, one should learn the Hadith of the Prophet Sallallahu Alaihe Wa Sallam and adopt it in practice.
By reading the Ahadith, one comes to understand, that the Holy Prophet Sallallahu Alaihe Wa Sallam is alive in his blessed grave but this life is not like the life of this world. It is completely different from the life of this world.
The Prophet Sallallahu Alaihe Wa Sallam by the will of Allah can hear the Salam of he who sends it while at the grave and he responds to the Salam as well.
And Allah knows best.
Mufti Ikram ul Haq
Darul Ifta of Rhode Island
19 Rajab 1431/ July 1 2010

This is an aqeeda related issue, which needs to be learned well.

i dont konw how to post youtube videos in forum, therefore i'm pasting the youtube link here.
http://www.youtube.com/user/alitteha...84/oHOuMq8AIA4

Dont pray behind Mamati's

[Q0KmoR8K]

okay thanks 4 the answers. do hayati's and mamati's both belong to the deobandi... thingiky? (sorry i dont know whether to say beleif or sect or what!)

[indahouweres]

okay thanks 4 the answers. do hayati's and mamati's both belong to the deobandi... thingiky? (sorry i dont know whether to say beleif or sect or what!)

Yes

[RildFiemodo]

okay thanks 4 the answers. do hayati's and mamati's both belong to the deobandi... thingiky? (sorry i dont know whether to say beleif or sect or what!)

u mean school of thought.

[ceagstuntee]

Dont pray behind Mamati's

mamatis are kafir?

Also, can someone give more information. Are they the only two sub groups of deobandi? How big are each of them? Who are teh major scholars of each? Which countries are both based in? WHich cities in the UK are both active in? How do I tell the difference as I dont think most common muslims in a deobandi masjid would know the answer to is the prophet salallahu alayhi wassalam alive in his grave

[AngelinaLip]

Mamaatis are a small splinter group that perceive themselves to be Deobandi. Deobandi ulama have said that the "Mamaatis" are not Deobandis because to be a Deobandi, you have to be a "Hayaati".

[Bugamerka]

This is an aqeeda related issue, which needs to be learned well.

i dont konw how to post youtube videos in forum, therefore i'm pasting the youtube link here.
http://www.youtube.com/user/alitteha...84/oHOuMq8AIA4

Dont pray behind Mamati's

Assalamu alaykum

so hayatis are salah is not valid behind mamatis??

[ceagstuntee]

could you post teh links of some fatawa from major ulema from deobandi school who said this?

Also, how big ar they and where are they found?

So the main groups says the prophet salallahu alayhi wassalam is still alive? So non of the deobandi ulema say the prophet salallahu alayhi wassalam is still alive and if they did yo wouldnt pray behind them? Just so Im clear on this isssue inshAllah

[ceagstuntee]

Regarding the life of the Prophet in grave Answered By: Mufti Ikram ul Haq - Fatwa Center of America

Question:
As salam wale kum mufti saab What are hayati and mamati deobandis

Answer:

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

الجواب حامداومصليا
Some scholars of Islam have expressed difference in their opinion regarding the life of the Holy Prophet Sallallahu Alaihe Wa Sallam in his blessed grave.
Those who believe that he is alive in his grave are presumably called "Hayatis" and those who believe that he like any other in his grave are presumably called "Mamatis".
One should understand that the reliability of Imaan does not depend upon this belief, so to say; Hayatis are Kafir or Mamatis are Kafir is utterly wrong.
However, one view may have stronger support in light of the Ahadith and sources of Shariah than the other but ultimately one should not ponder deeply into such contentious issues that it becomes the sole focus of his practice.
The difference of opinion is natural when there isn't a clear cut command regarding a matter.
Therefore, one should learn the Hadith of the Prophet Sallallahu Alaihe Wa Sallam and adopt it in practice.
By reading the Ahadith, one comes to understand, that the Holy Prophet Sallallahu Alaihe Wa Sallam is alive in his blessed grave but this life is not like the life of this world. It is completely different from the life of this world.
The Prophet Sallallahu Alaihe Wa Sallam by the will of Allah can hear the Salam of he who sends it while at the grave and he responds to the Salam as well.
And Allah knows best.
Mufti Ikram ul Haq
Darul Ifta of Rhode Island
19 Rajab 1431/ July 1 2010

from this fatwa, the shaikh seems to be backing up the idea that the prophet salallahu alayhi wassalam is not alive in this world and is alive in teh barzakh which I suppose is what mamatis are saying? So is teh shaikh a mamati? Or do mamatis mean that he is completely dead (I doubt they mean this)

[AngelinaLip]

Assalamu alaykum

so hayatis are salah is not valid behind mamatis??

Listen to the audio clip.

To summarize:

A few brothers brought their complaints to Raiwind that their imam is Mamaati. The complainants and the imam were present. Mufti of Jami'a Ashrafiya laid out the aqeedah of Deoband and asked if this imam agreed to it, to which he said he did. The Mufti warned him not to lie to keep his post as imam of the masjid. Then the Mufti asked where did this imam study, to which he gave the name of a Mamaati institution. The Mufti then said that the imam is performing taqiyyah to keep his position as imam. Finally, the Mufti said that the Mamaatis are from the Ahlul Bid'ah and prayer behind them is makrooh tahrimah.

[ceagstuntee]

Listen to the audio clip.

To summarize:

A few brothers brought their complaints to Raiwind that their imam is Mamaati. The complainants and the imam were present. Mufti of Jami'a Ashrafiya laid out the aqeedah of Deoband and asked if this imam agreed to it, to which he said he did. The Mufti warned him not to lie to keep his post as imam of the masjid. Then the Mufti asked where did this imam study, to which he gave the name of a Mamaati institution. The Mufti then said that the imam is performing taqiyyah to keep his position as imam. Finally, the Mufti said that the Mamaatis are from the Ahlul Bid'ah and prayer behind them is makrooh tahrimah.

which audio clip bro and who is the shaykh?

[AngelinaLip]

which audio clip bro and who is the shaykh?

The clip that brother hazratji posted (it is in Urdu). The Mufti is Mufti Sher Muhammad 'Alawi DB of Jami'a Ashrafiya of Lahore.

[twiffatticy]

from this fatwa, the shaikh seems to be backing up the idea that the prophet salallahu alayhi wassalam is not alive in this world and is alive in teh barzakh which I suppose is what mamatis are saying? So is teh shaikh a mamati? Or do mamatis mean that he is completely dead (I doubt they mean this)

Prophet is alive in the grave with he's worldly body this is the belief of the hayati majority deobandies.

[karaburatoreror]

The clip that brother hazratji posted (it is in Urdu). The Mufti is Mufti Sher Muhammad 'Alawi DB of Jami'a Ashrafiya of Lahore.

for translating audio into text.
Mufti saab's voice is like sher (lion) mashAllah

[PIORARMADDERI]

Salaam!

Gift for you folks:
http://www.ilmgate.org/hadith-on-the...-in-the-grave/

[CoiI8XIj]

Salaam!

Gift for you folks:
http://www.ilmgate.org/hadith-on-the...-in-the-grave/

Highlighted:

[5] This life attained by them after their death is not the worldly life in its essence or with all its features rather it is similar to the worldly life in some of its features, some expressed clearly and some assumed

[anaisdannyxys]

Highlighted:

[5] This life attained by them after their death is not the worldly life in its essence or with all its features rather it is similar to the worldly life in some of its features, some expressed clearly and some assumed

See also Mufti Muhammad's answer which was posted there also: http://www.ilmgate.org/are-the-proph...-their-graves/

So, taking into account the following paragraph: This life is physical and worldly (dunyawiyyah), and not just a spiritual one with the sole (barzakhiyyah), as the latter is common for all the people. They are usually involved in performing Salat and worshiping Allah (out of their own choice and not binding on them), and we can normally not see or feel them. Is it correct to say that the Prophets عليهم السلام and the shuhada' (and anyone else who has this honor) are alive in their graves, and what separates that "life" from the "life" of the barzakh is the degree of how close they are to the dunyawiyyah life, i.e. the strength of the connections between the body and the soul? And from excerpt of Takmilah Fath al-Mulhim, that the strength of the connection would be stronger for the Prophets than for the martyrs, etc., on the basis of superiority?

I am just trying to clarify my understanding.