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02-14-2011, 05:58 PM
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#1 |
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 Panjtan Paak
 hope everyone on the forum is well. Ok so my question is about panjtan paak, i believe which is referred to as the Prophet(sallahu alayhi wasalam) , Hazrat Ali, Fatima Zahra, Hussian and Hassan (May Allah swt be pleased with all of them). I usually hear barelwis always using this term panjtan, they say things like if you want something or start something use panjtans name or something like this. Has anyone else heard of this ? Also they say that wahabis dont believe in Ya Ali's(RA) jenab ?? what do they mean ? Anyway my family are barelwis so i hear them say this all the time, if i try to tell them i dont want to say it we get in big fights etc. Just wondering what is everyone else's view on this ? And doesnt this come from Shia's ? 
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02-14-2011, 06:35 PM
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#2 |
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 Hmmm....where does one start, in composing a reply to the the above post.... 
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02-14-2011, 07:10 PM
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#3 |
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walaykum asalaam
the barelwis and shias both say Ali RA is mushkil kusha (remover of difficulties), that is where it comes from |
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02-14-2011, 08:29 PM
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#4 |
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What you are refering to are purely Shia based beliefs, and it both saddens & angers me that you mention that your family, who are Barelwi orientated hold such beliefs...but unfortunately it does not surprise me. Panjtan Paak, refers to those 5 personalities you mentioned, who the Shia consider as being absolutely pure & free from sin etc. It is the beliefs of the Ahlus Sunnat Wal Jammah, that these people are indeed those who will enter Jannah, as they have been granted/informed about their position(s) in Jannah, during their lifetime. However, the Shias, in their ignorance, fail to include the other 3 daughters of Hazrat Muhammed  & the wives of our Prophet Hazrat Muhammed , as being paak, which raises the question;How do you view the great people you are excluding from those that are paak? Are they implementing that they are not paak? You say that you "usually hear Barelwis always using this term & that they claim if you want something or start something use panjtans name or something like this..." There's two thing there that need to be mentioned; 1) You mentioned you have heard Barelwis say this, therefore I have to say no more... 2) When the Ahlus Sunnat Wal Jammah want something they ask Allah SWT to make their goal achievable & if we start something we do so with 'Bismillah al rahman al rahim'.... In regards to them saying that Wahabis don't believe in Hazrat Ali (RA), you need to clarify who they are referring to when they say Wahabis...because from what my experience tells me, many Barelwis will resort to calling anyone a Wahabi, who disapproves of their practices, or does something that is different to them - (yes, I know it's a generalization, but it's from my own experiences) The Ahlus Sunnat Wal Jammah accept all four Khalifas, without question & we believe that their was no hate between them... Finally, how can someone be regraded as mushkil kusha (remover of difficulties), when Hazrat Ali (RA), himself, bowed down to Allah  , in his times of need?If I wasn't at work, and I didn't have all my work colleagues staring at me ,furiously typing away, I would submit a more concise, comprehensive and fully referenced reply....but in the mean time, this is the best I can do....
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02-14-2011, 10:40 PM
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#5 |
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for replies. Well barelwi call everyone that isnt a barelwi a wahhabi lol. Ok so like in my family they believe they should start with Allah swt name, then panjtan name, so i guess they are trying to do tawassul but i dont think they are doing it correctly, cuz i hear them say stuff like panjtan ki zaat(sos my urdu is bad)..has anyone else heard any other barelvis do something similar. Also using pious people as a wasila is permissible i believe so if they use panjtan as a wasila thats ok is it ?
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02-14-2011, 10:48 PM
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#6 |
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I respect you for trying to understand and guiding your family, so may Allah continue helping you in this matter.
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02-14-2011, 11:47 PM
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#7 |
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my family is pretty much barelwi aswell, they do say things like panjtan paak ke sadqe.....(for the sake of panjtan) |
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02-27-2011, 06:59 AM
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#8 |
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08-09-2011, 09:34 AM
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#9 |
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08-09-2011, 01:46 PM
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#10 |
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This is not the proper mode of Tawassul and what they are committing is an act of shirk (istighatha). Tawassul/asking for wasilah can only be performed at the grave of a pious person, not from afar. |
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08-09-2011, 03:01 PM
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#11 |
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Not acceptable. Only the Prophets(as) are infallible and free from sin. The Shi'ah argue that Fatima(ra) was infallible. See the following answer: Q. Some Shî`ah are arguing that Fâtimah, the daughter of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was infallible. They cite the hadîth where the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “Fâtimah is part of me, and whoever angers her has angered me.” They argue that since her anger is from the Prophet’s anger and the Prophet’s anger is from Allah’s anger, therefore Fâtimah’s anger could never be false. This shows that she was infallible. How can I reply to this argument? Answered bySheikh `Abd Allah al-Dumayjî A. The hadîth being cited does not lend any support to the idea of Fâtimah’s infallibility. The circumstances in which the statement was made clearly indicate what was intended by it. Fâtimah’s husband, Alî b. Abî Tâlib, decided to marry another woman as a second wife. When the Prophet (peace be upon him) learned of this, he made this statement, meaning that he was angered by the idea of `Alî marrying the other woman. These same Shî`ah claim that `Alî himself was infallible – and he is the one who made Fâtimah angry in the first place by his thinking about marrying another woman. She complained about him to the Prophet (peace be upon him), prompting him to say: “Fâtimah is part of me, and whoever angers her has angered me.” [Sahîh al-Bukhârî (3729) and Sahîh Muslim (2449)] How can we assume that Fâtimah was infallible when the Prophet (peace be upon him) had said to her: “O Fâtimah, daughter of Muhammad, ask of me whatever you wish of my wealth, for I can not avail you anything with Allah.” [Sahîh al-Bukhârî (2753) and Sahîh Muslim (204)] What could the Prophet’s words to his daughter “…for I can not avail you anything with Allah” possibly mean if Fâtimah had been infallible? .
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10-02-2011, 05:56 AM
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#12 |
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, for your input & correction. You are right, and I should have composed that in a more clearer manner.I have amended my post as best I can at the moment,without having to re-write it, but if it is not worded correctly, please advice, further. Once again, bro.
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10-02-2011, 04:00 PM
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#13 |
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not only PANJ TAN PAK, we say SAB TAN PAK
 (Everybody including Prophet's family members, sahaba  were Maghfoor)
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10-02-2011, 11:16 PM
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#14 |
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Salam brothers.
It is praiseworthy to have high respect and love for our NABI saw family. Jazakallah |
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10-03-2011, 05:48 AM
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#15 |
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Salam brothers. Indeed, but how? Shall we go to the extremes of the Shia's for this? |
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10-03-2011, 05:59 AM
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#16 |
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, I suppose those who agree on invoking 'Ali (  ) don't have any problem is calling all five logically speaking...that includes shi'a, brelwis or even 'deobandis'...
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10-04-2011, 04:25 PM
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#17 |
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