[quottrethew]

Assalamulaikum

Alhumdulillah, a really interesting thread. I have yet to vote as I have the feeling that the word "politics" may not mean the same thing to everyone on this forum.

I believe that if you are a Muslim you are automatically a politician (i.e. not like the politicians today who vote for "democracy" and so follow their whims and desires as it suits them but in the sense that we should have a want to learn about and improve our community in an Islamic setting). I know some brothers/sisters may be thinking astargfillah but I feel this may only be the case because this word politics has been tainted with all the crimes and indecencies that politicians have committed.

I am just curious how are people defining politics?
Or even better, what is the Islamic definition of politics?

Jazakallah Khair
Walaikum salaam

[ballingham]

Politics to me is the art of government or organizing power.

[LkEHaduy]

Politics to me is the art of government or organizing power.

i think in arabic dictionaries, politics = commanding good and forbidding evil

so there might be different kinds of politics

Alhumdulillah, a really interesting thread. I have yet to vote as I have the feeling that the word "politics" may not mean the same thing to everyone on this forum.

I am just curious how are people defining politics?
Or even better, what is the Islamic definition of politics?

without using any sort of label or term

i think the real goal is to establish a system of authority that implements all of islam, looks after the affairs of the ummah and carries islam to the world through dawa and jihad - in order to fully liberate people from beings slaves to the creation. education and tarbiyah play an important role.

[LkEHaduy]

i don't really see the need to refute the ideology of capitalism.

the communists and liberals have done this already - didn't get them anywhere.

it is more important for a person to accept that the law of Allah must be adhered to and everything that contradicts it is thrown away.

La illaha ilallah is the testification to a person's denouncement of capitalism and his submission to Allah.

the sahada doesn't start with the word "La" for nothing

like Allah says, it is the goodly word, like the goodly tree.

the start in shifting the paradigm to me is more about a person recognizing the truth in Allah's statement in surah 'Asr - Indeed, man is at loss

i guess this can include refuting an ideology of capitalism, but at the same time the average joe and jane don't really care about the ideology of capitalism.

this is how i see it right now, so maybe someone can explain the other point of view.

[LkEHaduy]

establishing islam in our own selves, families and communities and dawah i dislike this option since it is fard on every muslim to be concerned for other muslims across the world and to defend our land, life and honor.

it is important to strike a balance in the aspects of the deen relating to politics, jihad, dawa , ibadat and 'ilm. (not in any specific order)

this is what the sahaba did.

[LkEHaduy]

Once the members of society at large and the elites consent to the application of Islamic Law, I still think that it should be down gradually.

Perhaps it can be done through a series of 5 year plans where the most egregious crimes can be punished and then as society adjusts to the changes, then more and more aspects of the Shari'ah can be introduced.

Thus, the state should first focus on major crimes such as murder, theft, consumption of intoxicating substances. Then, after five years, if the execution of the law has been efficiently conducted and is actually applied, then more laws of the Shari'ah will be enforced. Such as prayer, hijab, etc.

The point is to start on the big things and then work your way down.

This seems to have been the Sunnah of Allah (swt).

is there any evidence for this?

people say that it is not allowed to partially implement the laws for the reason of "gradually easing in shariah"

when islam expanded during the time of Abu Bakr and Umar bin Khattab are there any examples of the ameers of any wilayah implementing the laws gradually?

i think this will give us the best answer.

----------------

personally as a man, if you want to say that you will enforce the laws of fornication and adultery in the first five years and then the laws of hijab and tabarruj after 5 years, it makes no sense what so ever.

btw, the ruling of covering awra applies equally to muslims and non-muslims in public.

i have read things where people say that it only applies to muslims - so strange.

[quottrethew]

Assalamulaikum

Apologies for the "dumb" questions:

1. Is there a Khilafah at the present moment in time?
(What about all the "Islamic" countries?)

2. Do any brothers/sisters have recommendations of books/articles on this particular subject?

Walaikum salaam

[royarnekara]

is there any evidence for this?

people say that it is not allowed to partially implement the laws for the reason of "gradually easing in shariah"

when islam expanded during the time of Abu Bakr and Umar bin Khattab are there any examples of the ameers of any wilayah implementing the laws gradually?

i think this will give us the best answer.

----------------

personally as a man, if you want to say that you will enforce the laws of fornication and adultery in the first five years and then the laws of hijab and tabarruj after 5 years, it makes no sense what so ever.

btw, the ruling of covering awra applies equally to muslims and non-muslims in public.

i have read things where people say that it only applies to muslims - so strange.

the real promplem i have with implementing all the sunnah at one go. is the nature of the people you are ( Forcing/giving ) it to. if the people don't want those types of strict laws, or are not use to them. then your gonna have a problem and undermine your own authority. just like the taliban, don't force things on people, usally has adverse effects. thats why it needs to be implemented steadily, and about umar and abu bakr, implementation of islam to other places, they sent those cities people to teach them the deen, do u think it took them 1 day to teach people about islam, no, it took time, and the qazi also must to had to be implemented at a later stage, when people knew the laws and conducts.

[sasaderesada]

Intellectual Revolution

totally agree

[LkEHaduy]

the real promplem i have with implementing all the sunnah at one go.

akhi, the laws relating to covering 'awra, mixing of the sexes not trading in riba, etc... are not sunnah.

how absurd would it be to say that the khalifah will gradually ease into the prohibition of riba?

is the nature of the people you are ( Forcing/giving ) it to. if the people don't want those types of strict laws, or are not use to them. then your gonna have a problem and undermine your own authority. just like the taliban, don't force things on people, usally has adverse effects. thats why it needs to be implemented steadily, and about umar and abu bakr, implementation of islam to other places, they sent those cities people to teach them the deen, do u think it took them 1 day to teach people about islam, no, it took time, and the qazi also must to had to be implemented at a later stage, when people knew the laws and conducts.

i do not want to speculate on history and what the ameers and judges of a wilayah did.

teaching people how to pray or teaching them the deen is different from telling them that the law for trade is such and such.

the prayer is not enforced on non-muslims anyway - but rules of covering 'awra in public are.


the way to answer the question of gradual vs. full implementation is still:

what are the evidence that allow a partial/gradual implementation of the deen?

did rasulallah and the sahaba ever do this? the sahaba conquered many wilayat where islam was brand new - did they or the governors they appoints ever say...well, khamr will be banned in year 4 of my plan?


for some reason, I don't think they did that - but i'm willing to accept this policy of "gradual implementation" if someone provides the evidences from quran and sunnah - and not rational thought.

[quottrethew]

Assalamulaikum

I have a problem with this gradual implementation because I do not believe it is possible to gradually implement Islam in a Kufr country without compromising Islam. And, Islam should never be compromised.

(I can't remember the exact verse where Allah tells us that we should not accept a part of the book and reject others. I would be grateful if a brother/sister could let me know of the verse.)

Plus, if people are not willing to die (ultimate sacrifice) for Islam surely there must be something wrong with their understanding of what Islam is and means rather than Islam having to take a step back to wait for them.

Islam is perfect. It needs no changing.
Surah 5, Al-Maidah, The Table Spread, Verse 3
"This day have I perfected your religion for you and completed My favour unto you, and have chosen for you as your deen Islam." We as Muslims are the ones with imperfections. We need changing.
Surah 13, Ar-Rad, The Thunder, Verse 11
"Verily never will Allah change the condition of a people until they change it themselves” Walaikum salaam

[wrardymar]

Vote goes to :

set up an islamic political group and work to rectify the ummah
set up an islamic political group and engage with current leaders, and involve ourselves in politics
set up an organization of thoughtful, committed muslims performing active resistance. continous mass-awarness on a large scale, curing propaganda infested minds, Refuse and Resist. [because all other options are taking too long]


EDIT : Please quote some verses and hadits, informing muslims to adopt khalifat, when there is none.

[Matajic]

The problem with the above post is that their is a huge disconnect between the 'Ulema and the masses.

Sherman Jackson identified two possible explanations: being cut off from above and being cut off from below.

The 'Ulema have been excluded from the political system as 'elites' by the state due to the rise of secularism. Thus, they've been evicted from the top.

Secondly, due to the rise of literacy, many people are going past the 'Ulema to approach religious and classical texts themselves. Mass education and modern means of communication (printing press, internet, libraries, universities) have thus, taken the authority of the 'Ulema from below.

The Salafi dawah seems to be doing a good job in reaching out to the masses, something that Traditional 'Ulema fail to do.

In my opinion, the only way traditional 'Ulema can compete in the modern world is to re-invent methods for reaching out both to the masses and to the political system.
The 'Ulema have been relegated to a minor role among other intellectual elites. They must compete, whether they want to or not, against philosophers, social scientists, politicians, military rulers, etc.

The thing that we have to recognize is that their are multiple paradigms operating in the Ummah today. The greatest obstacle to Muslim unity is the lack of agreement over an operating paradigm. What is needed is a paradigm shift in both the masses and the political systems. Through the sheer force of argument, the 'Ulema, like Imam Ashari or Imam Ghazzali before them, can re-gain authority.
However, in order to do that, they must be able to engage their 'intellectual rivals' in a constructive manner and dialogue. This is something, unfortunately, that Sunni 'Ulema fail to do.
Shi'i 'Ulema, on the other hand, seem to be more on the ball. Shi'i 'Ulema study Western philosophy in their maddrassehs with the intent to refute it or at least critique it.

We could learn a lot from each other.

Some excellent points.

[MizzDaizzy]

3rd option & wait for Imam al-Mahdi.