[jessyhalm]

The Turkish decision increases Israel's isolation at a sensitive time. Israel faces turmoil in ties with another longtime regional ally, Egypt, where longtime leader Hosni Mubarak was deposed earlier this year and where there have been growing calls to revoke the three-decade-old Egypt-Israel peace agreement. Last month, Egypt briefly threatened to withdraw its ambassador from Israel after a shooting in southern Israel left five Egyptian soldiers dead.

It also comes as Israel seeks to muster international support against an attempt by the Palestinians to have their state recognized at the U.N. later this month.

The U.N. report on the flotilla raid, obtained by The New York Times and posted on its website, said Israel's naval blockade of Gaza is a "legitimate security measure." But it also said Israel's use of force against the flotilla was "excessive and unreasonable."

An Israeli official said the report showed Israel's naval blockade was in keeping with international law. He spoke on condition of anonymity because the report had yet to be officially released. He said Israel expected it to be made public by the U.N. later Friday.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_946276.html

[galaktiusman]

Yep, plan B is in effect starting from today.

[Junrlaeh]

This doesnt mean anything. Really we need Turkey to invade Israel, and then we'll see what Saudi will do then. Will they side with Turkey or Isreal

[galaktiusman]

This doesnt mean anything. Really we need Turkey to invade Israel, and then we'll see what Saudi will do then. Will they side with Turkey or Isreal

With all due respect, but to do things just to see how xyz countries will respond is absurd.

[Junrlaeh]

With all due respect, but to do things just to see how xyz countries will respond is absurd.

So you would not like to see Israel defeated

[galaktiusman]

So you would not like to see Israel defeated

It's not about that. We should do things for reasons other that testing what Arab countries would do, yet this is highly predictable what they will do. Don't you think so? Besides that, Iran is just chasing the opportunity to halt down any Sunni country by any means possible, as they did for entire 1400-yer-long history.

[Junrlaeh]

It's not about that. We should do things for reasons other that testing what Arab countries would do, yet this is highly predictable what they will do. Don't you think so? Besides that, Iran is just chasing the opportunity to halt down any Sunni country by any means possible, as they did for entire 1400-yer-long history.

The Shia and Rafaawidh have obviously there own agenda, as has every nation on earth now. See the funny thing is, in the world at the minute, the only country that is closest to an Islamic nation in terms of Shariat, is Saudi. It says a lot if they cant be helping there fellow Muslims in Palestine, Syria etc. They should invest in nuclear technology with all that oil money and point half of them towards Tel Aviv and the other half towards EU.

[jessyhalm]

Yep, plan B is in effect starting from today.

What's that?

[galaktiusman]

What's that?

Basically to sever all roots with Israel and take necessary steps to back up Palestine.

'Plan B' scenarios

Include at least following steps:

• Downgrading Turkey's diplomatic mission in Tel Aviv
• Rejection of the appointment of a new Israeli ambassador to Turkey
• An Erdogan visit to the Gaza Strip in September
• Full Turkish support for the Palestinian UN statehood bid, coupled with an effort to form a lobby and attempts to isolate Israel at all frameworks
• Granting legal assistance to the families of Turkish fatalities and the filing of lawsuits against Israel, including ones submitted to the International Criminal Court at The Hague
• Terminating the defense cooperation with Israel, a move that would include the annulment of joint exercises and defense industry projects
• Imposition of economic sanctions and the cutting back of investments in Israel. While Israeli businesspeople will be allowed to operate in Turkey, Ankara would refrain from taking steps to promote trade.
• Suspending all political and economic ties between the states.

***
Btw, here is biased UN report that was released yesterday.

http://www.un.org/News/dh/infocus/mi...nel_Report.pdf

[jessyhalm]

Basically to sever all roots with Israel and take necessary steps to back up Palestine.

'Plan B' scenarios

Include at least following steps:

• Downgrading Turkey's diplomatic mission in Tel Aviv
• Rejection of the appointment of a new Israeli ambassador to Turkey
• An Erdogan visit to the Gaza Strip in September
• Full Turkish support for the Palestinian UN statehood bid, coupled with an effort to form a lobby and attempts to isolate Israel at all frameworks
• Granting legal assistance to the families of Turkish fatalities and the filing of lawsuits against Israel, including ones submitted to the International Criminal Court at The Hague
• Terminating the defense cooperation with Israel, a move that would include the annulment of joint exercises and defense industry projects
• Imposition of economic sanctions and the cutting back of investments in Israel. While Israeli businesspeople will be allowed to operate in Turkey, Ankara would refrain from taking steps to promote trade.
• Suspending all political and economic ties between the states.

***
Btw, here is biased UN report that was released yesterday.

http://www.un.org/News/dh/infocus/mi...nel_Report.pdf

To be honest I admire the Turkish model

[galaktiusman]

And here is Today's UN report:

U.N. experts say Israel's blockade of Gaza illegal

Israel's naval blockade of the Gaza Strip violates international law, a panel of human rights experts reporting to a U.N. body said on Tuesday, disputing a conclusion reached by a separate U.N. probe into Israel's raid on a Gaza-bound aid ship.

The so-called Palmer Report on the Israeli raid of May 2010 that killed nine Turkish activists said earlier this month that Israel had used unreasonable force in last year's raid, but its naval blockade of the Hamas-ruled strip was legal.

A panel of five independent U.N. rights experts reporting to the U.N. Human Rights Council rejected that conclusion, saying the blockade had subjected Gazans to collective punishment in "flagrant contravention of international human rights and humanitarian law."

The four-year blockade deprived 1.6 million Palestinians living in the enclave of fundamental rights, they said.

"In pronouncing itself on the legality of the naval blockade, the Palmer Report does not recognize the naval blockade as an integral part of Israel's closure policy toward Gaza which has a disproportionate impact on the human rights of civilians," they said in a joint statement.

An earlier fact-finding mission named by the same U.N. forum to investigate the flotilla incident also found in a report last September that the blockade violated international law. The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) says the blockade violates the Geneva Conventions.

http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNew...BrandChannel=0

[HartOvara]

This doesnt mean anything. Really we need Turkey to invade Israel, and then we'll see what Saudi will do then. Will they side with Turkey or Isreal

If Turkey invades Israel, what will u do then ? Watching all the horrors of blood on TV while sitting in Birmingham ? Its nice to see a war movie without physical participation !!

Try to be pragmatic , not an empty-headed idealist shouting provocative rants !!

[Junrlaeh]

If Turkey invades Israel, what will u do then ? Watching all the horrors of blood on TV while sitting in Birmingham ? Its nice to see a war movie without physical participation !!

Try to be pragmatic , not an empty-headed idealist shouting provocative rants !!

Salam
I was staying on topic, we should speak out against terror and evil as we are ordained to do so, If we can't go there physically. The lowest form of emaan is in your heart against such evil so speaking out I believe is higher. And Allah swt knows best

[Plulpangepler]

Has anyone here listened to the imran hossien lectures?

Its scary how accurate his predictions are.... according to him Isreal is the next super power after the fall of US.

he predicted the arab uprising years before it happened, and Im not sure but from what i remember he also said hostility against isreal will grow.... again im not too sure but it worth listening to.

[prearpaccew]

Brother I have Listened To imran Hoseins Lectures Majority of them..

Alhamdullillah He has been blessed with great knowledge and has the Courage to speak the truth.. There is a saying I once heard from someone & I asked My hozur and he said If you do this It is a sign of Mujahidah.. It is Speak the Truth even if it Leads to your Death !!

He had Researched and Told the Ummah in 2001 that There will a Heavy Economic Crisis and The WOrld will face a Recession .. He saiod you dont trust my words Just Wait and see . . Watch for yourself.. When did That Occur My Brothers..

He has also said that we live in the Times of Dajjal ... I read a few discussions where alot of people have tried to Dispute with his View and have tried to put him down but I reckon it is because they are trying Defend thereselves as tehy may have fallen into some of the Traps he has mentioned.. There is a Book I shave read on the Interview with Shaytan that nabi SAS had interviewed Shaytan himself .. If you can fiond that somewhere and read it .. You will know of the Truth that Sheik has talked about the world ..

The Shaytan has Overpowered Most of us.. It is very rare to Find a True Awliya These days .. By the Way I dont call These so Called Peer/Babas Awliyas as I have Witnessed myself some of them that Dont even Pray Salaah and have claimed to be awliya and have servents Rubbing there Feet.. What sort of Awlya is he.. My elders however have great respect for these people however i have never disrespected them just Dont agree with my elsders views..

From My Opinion I think the Sheik is on the Right Path and He is Giving us all a wider Wake up call.. Whoever has listened to his talks I know it has made you think once or twice and you have realised and it has woken you up but sooner or later shaytan shall comeback and make you dwell back into the state you were previously..

It is very difficult to uphold and Fulfil our Utmost duties especially very difficult for us these days to take actions that will make history and change the world to as it was / Should be....

I hope he is wrong but i dont think Sheik Imaran is as Even the Sahabas RA all feared of the Trials & Fitnas of Dajjal and we say oh let it be the the Mahdi Arrive etc !! yet look at our conditions ...... We are merely strong enough Externally & internally ... Only my opinion Guys !!

[Junrlaeh]

With all due respect brother people have been saying that the dajjal is here since end of uthmani caliph.

[Cuccuccaltefe]

imran hosseins's views are not shared by the vast majority of scholars. he is not a scholar and even though he backs his views with Quran and hadeeth to his understanding, one gets the feeling of pushing square pegs into round holes.

all that is happening and about to happen in the middle east is due solely to the impending events in khorassan. the whole judeo-christian world knows this and are making preparations for it. those ahadeeth have come alive in front of their own eyes. the sad thing is even they believe Muhammad pbuh's words as truth.

it's the muslims that are completely ignorant...

[prearpaccew]

imran hosseins's views are not shared by the vast majority of scholars. he is not a scholar and even though he backs his views with Quran and hadeeth to his understanding, one gets the feeling of pushing square pegs into round holes.

all that is happening and about to happen in the middle east is due solely to the impending events in khorassan. the whole judeo-christian world knows this and are making preparations for it. those ahadeeth have come alive in front of their own eyes. the sad thing is even they believe Muhammad pbuh's words as truth.

it's the muslims that are completely ignorant...

Brother Brother, I admire your words however I have to comment on one thing to say that he is not a Scholar !! Do you think that just getting a Certificate from Darul Uloom or Al-Azhar etc etc just makes you a scholar ... No Disrespect to the scholars who are practicing however I have known and seen Students and So called minority of certificate holders to go along way astray, you must have come across some in your life-time too.. I have also known & seen People with very little knowledge compared to them however they are very very practical in there Deen Mashallah...

There are people who have alot of knowledge who study Islam who look into things further.. The knowledge of Islam is not Bound to just Madrasa's .. .. There was a person called Khidr who once said to Musa AS the knowledge of what me & you have is like the knowledge of a drop of water in the Ocean . . So just because he is not looked upon by the majority of scholars as a sheik that does not mean he is not regarded by Allah as an Ulama ...

Know this that there are many elements in Islam that even our Scholars in this will not be capable to Understand or will not have the time and will not put the effort in to find out in this day & Age..

There are many many obstacles stopping them, You can not even compare an Alim of our time even tho they spend 10 yrs of there life in Madrasa to an Alim in the previous centuries.. They spent there whole life studying I mean 30yrs-40yrs and then still maybe all there knowledge may not have been passed down.. However alot of them Documented there research which is helpful. .

I am just saying for example you have a Uni Student who has completed his Masters/PHD then you have a person who has not Gone all the way to Uni however has finished High school and then began working for some corporate company etc ...

In the 7 yrs the PHD student has graduated this Average person who he will be called has achieved Directorship by working his way up the ladder via Promotion and work experience.. You see Even the West knows this is how the Real world is.. It isnt all about cetificates etc.. It is to do with practicality as well.. I hope i havent bragged on too long...

[BiseCreesia]

Brother Brother, I admire your words however I have to comment on one thing to say that he is not a Scholar !! Do you think that just getting a Certificate from Darul Uloom or Al-Azhar etc etc just makes you a scholar ... No Disrespect to the scholars who are practicing however I have known and seen Students and So called minority of certificate holders to go along way astray, you must have come across some in your life-time too.. I have also known & seen People with very little knowledge compared to them however they are very very practical in there Deen Mashallah...

There are people who have alot of knowledge who study Islam who look into things further.. The knowledge of Islam is not Bound to just Madrasa's .. .. There was a person called Khidr who once said to Musa AS the knowledge of what me & you have is like the knowledge of a drop of water in the Ocean . . So just because he is not looked upon by the majority of scholars as a sheik that does not mean he is not regarded by Allah as an Ulama ...

Know this that there are many elements in Islam that even our Scholars in this will not be capable to Understand or will not have the time and will not put the effort in to find out in this day & Age..

There are many many obstacles stopping them, You can not even compare an Alim of our time even tho they spend 10 yrs of there life in Madrasa to an Alim in the previous centuries.. They spent there whole life studying I mean 30yrs-40yrs and then still maybe all there knowledge may not have been passed down.. However alot of them Documented there research which is helpful. .

I am just saying for example you have a Uni Student who has completed his Masters/PHD then you have a person who has not Gone all the way to Uni however has finished High school and then began working for some corporate company etc ...

In the 7 yrs the PHD student has graduated this Average person who he will be called has achieved Directorship by working his way up the ladder via Promotion and work experience.. You see Even the West knows this is how the Real world is.. It isnt all about cetificates etc.. It is to do with practicality as well.. I hope i havent bragged on too long...

I don't think that brother Marco is saying that if one hasn't graduated from a madrasa, he can't be a good practising Muslim.

The point was rather about non-scholars giving their own unqualified interpretation to Qur'an and Ahadith (I'm talking in general, I'm not saying that's the case with Imran Hosein, as I don't really know much about him), while only scholars can do that, and that too with conditions...

So, it's not about piety, it's about scholarship and knowledge.