[rootoronpunty]

he says very clearly that he studied by many great scholars even aside from shaykh murabit al hajj (db). i would think that he learned hadith from them, i highly doubt that he is a self taught person.

The description of Sheik Murabit Al Hajj (db) given in the link is amazing. I never thought about bedouins in Modern era.

[PRengine]

Hamza Yusuf- Muslims, Jews, Christians no one has a monopoly on the truth and to claim a monopoly is extremism
(cant find the lecture on youtube but you can watch it embedded here)

Wow, People on that forum are literally cursing him out. SubhanAllah, i dont understand why people find him so shady. I mean whats different about him is that MashAllah Allah has made him pretty intelligent and hes a bit stylish, other than that his talks are beneficial. I think hes a turn of for simple minded people too. But very sad the way people are cursing him out on the link to that forum.

[Ferkilort]

I was highlighting the huge change in Hamza Yusuf style/tone from pre-2001 to now. Before he used to mention the truth clearly even if it was bitter.

Compared to now with things like: Muslims are very protective of Islam, thats why they're constantly vary of new ideas bid'ah and this is something that wont change anytime soon. Especially in the Muslim world they're closed to new ideas, but western Muslims are more open and tolerant to differing views. (paraphrased)

The problem with that is that no one understands what the message is. Traditionalists will apply husn adh-dhann and assume he's agreeing with them. Modernists and other deviants will say (& do say) he's agreeing with them. The clips posted have actually been uploaded by a modernist to show 'traditionalist' support for his views.

And the last link in my post (which is the full lecture thats embedded on another forum), thats the most confusing one of all. Its left me confused thinking about what on earth could he have meant, because going by the apparent of his words it implies kufr. Yet I find it hard to believe he would have meant it like that. So I would appreciate any explanation on that.

[Ferkilort]

Wow, People on that forum are literally cursing him out. SubhanAllah, i dont understand why people find him so shady. I mean whats different about him is that MashAllah Allah has made him pretty intelligent and hes a bit stylish, other than that his talks are beneficial. I think hes a turn of for simple minded people too. But very sad the way people are cursing him out on the link to that forum.

some of the comments are distasteful to say the least no point reading the whole thread.
just listen to the lecture and share any possible explanation.

[rootoronpunty]

And the last link in my post (which is the full lecture thats embedded on another forum), thats the most confusing one of all. Its left me confused thinking about what on earth could he have meant, because going by the apparent of his words it implies kufr. Yet I find it hard to believe he would have meant it like that. So I would appreciate any explanation on that.

Perhaps do husn-adhan yourself.

[PRengine]

I was highlighting the huge change in Hamza Yusuf style/tone from pre-2001 to now. Before he used to mention the truth clearly even if it was bitter.

Compared to now with things like: Muslims are very protective of Islam, thats why they're constantly vary of new ideas bid'ah and this is something that wont change anytime soon. Especially in the Muslim world they're closed to new ideas, but western Muslims are more open and tolerant to differing views. (paraphrased)

The problem with that is that no one understands what the message is. Traditionalists will apply husn adh-dhann and assume he's agreeing with them. Modernists and other deviants will say (& do say) he's agreeing with them. The clips posted have actually been uploaded by a modernist to show 'traditionalist' support for his views.

And the last link in my post (which is the full lecture thats embedded on another forum), thats the most confusing one of all. Its left me confused thinking about what on earth could he have meant, because going by the apparent of his words it implies kufr. Yet I find it hard to believe he would have meant it like that. So I would appreciate any explanation on that.

Well his take is that muslims are all one community and we cant divide eachother into groups, whatever mess we are in is all of us together. So i think keeping in mind the limits of Shariah, he is saying new ideas can be looked at, and as long as shariah is not violated we can take them and the modernist, we should not eliminate them and i guess open doors to them and take them on board, we dont have to side them on something haram , but we can address their issues and whatever falls within shariah we should accept it. This is what i have got so far from his approach, i can be wrong too. He just doesnt want division and we have a spectrum now, where we have one extreme which is hesitant to open up to new ideas and we have another extreme which is just taking anything and everything from the western ideologies and way of life. He is trying to slow it all down and trying the two extremes to merge and come somewhere in the middle which would be within Shariah. Allah knows best. Best thing is to keep HusneDhan, untill he openly declares something Halal which is definitely Haram.

[Ferkilort]

Perhaps do husn-adhan yourself.

thats what I'm asking for help on!

give me a possible explanation so I can assume he meant that, because I cant think of any.


Heres what he said:
One of the things that our Abrahamic tradition suffer from is exclusiveism, Many Jews, Christians and Muslims tend to see themselves as having some monopoly on the truth. And monopoly on the truth, according to the real Abrahimic tradition, is Gods alone. Arrogating the voice of God to oneself is probably the most dangerous and capital sin of people that claim God. God spoke through the revelations Old Testament, New Testament, and the Quran- God has many voices. To claim any one voice to be the exclusive voice of God is a very dangerous thing to do. Unfortunately its something we tend to fall into, human arrogance is a major fault.

[rootoronpunty]

thats what I'm asking for help on!

give me a possible explanation so I can assume he meant that, because I cant think of any.


Heres what he said:
One of the things that our Abrahamic tradition suffer from is exclusiveism, Many Jews, Christians and Muslims tend to see themselves as having some monopoly on the truth. And monopoly on the truth, according to the real Abrahimic tradition, is Gods alone. Arrogating the voice of God to oneself is probably the most dangerous and capital sin of people that claim God. God spoke through the revelations Old Testament, New Testament, and the Quran- God has many voices. To claim any one voice to be the exclusive voice of God is a very dangerous thing to do. Unfortunately its something we tend to fall into, human arrogance is a major fault.

Perhaps he is mentioning about the rightly guided Muslims that followed Torah and Injil at the Times of Musa :as: and Isa :as:.

[Ferkilort]

Well his take is that muslims are all one community and we cant divide eachother into groups, whatever mess we are in is all of us together. So i think keeping in mind the limits of Shariah, he is saying new ideas can be looked at, and as long as shariah is not violated we can take them and the modernist, we should not eliminate them and i guess open doors to them and take them on board, we dont have to side them on something haram , but we can address their issues and whatever falls within shariah we should accept it. This is what i have got so far from his approach, i can be wrong too. He just doesnt want division and we have a spectrum now, where we have one extreme which is hesitant to open up to new ideas and we have another extreme which is just taking anything and everything from the western ideologies and way of life. He is trying to slow it all down and trying the two extremes to merge and come somewhere in the middle which would be within Shariah. Allah knows best. Best thing is to keep HusneDhan, untill he openly declares something Halal which is definitely Haram.

Thats fair. But out of caution when I recommend his lectures to family and friends, I always make a distinction between his old and new ones, because I fear that unless one has a strong understanding of Islam they might get confused with his new way of saying certain things.

[PRengine]

thats what I'm asking for help on!

give me a possible explanation so I can assume he meant that, because I cant think of any.


Heres what he said:
One of the things that our Abrahamic tradition suffer from is exclusiveism, Many Jews, Christians and Muslims tend to see themselves as having some monopoly on the truth. And monopoly on the truth, according to the real Abrahimic tradition, is Gods alone. Arrogating the voice of God to oneself is probably the most dangerous and capital sin of people that claim God. God spoke through the revelations Old Testament, New Testament, and the Quran- God has many voices. To claim any one voice to be the exclusive voice of God is a very dangerous thing to do. Unfortunately its something we tend to fall into, human arrogance is a major fault.

Brother i watched the first 10 minutes, and i didnt see any kufr comming out. One he is invited by jews or christians in that gathering. And when he talks about the monopoly he is pointing out the fact that we muslims have quran as the truth, but chrisitan and jews also have torah the testaments which do contain truth. So we cannot totally declare that in judaism and christanity everything is False. And by that he means that the the ethical and moral teachings in all the scriptures are pretty much alike. There are differences in creed and aqeeda but besides that each traditions has truth in it. And muslims even having the Quran and the guidance of prophet, still can be wrong in their stances and simply because we often fail to do the right thing. And We can see in our societies that even though having the guidance from Quran and Sunnah, we still commit wrongs. Because having the Quran is not enough we also have to be able to do the right interpretation.You can see how many deviant sects there are out there who interpret quran and sunnah in the wrong manner and then enforce on muslims to do according to their interpretation. That is the meaning of monopolizing, and in reality they are wrong. This is what i understood and Allah knows best.

[PRengine]

Thats fair. But out of caution when I recommend his lectures to family and friends, I always make a distinction between his old and new ones, because I fear that unless one has a strong understanding of Islam they might get confused with his new way of saying certain things.

Well it can happen only if he is actually is in reality making such statements. In the end he is also not an angel and as other scholars make mistakes he can make too. I mean the fact is we cant follow anyone blindly, so the same old good rule applies, take what is good and leave what is shady or doesnt apply to you. Cuz remember alot of his audience are the muslims that are living in strong western societies with a lot of heavy influence, those muslims are struggling. And he likes to address them too and their worries. For someone living in Saudia Arabia or pakistan alot of those things dont even apply. U know what i mean.

[PRengine]

Also generally speaking about when he says monopolizing the truth i think hes referring to the point that within the sacred Texts there are passages which are either mutashabihat which no one has a conclusive explanation of or there are passages which are interpreted by the scholors differently. So Even the Ayats of Quran, few are interpreted by the rightly guided ulema in different ways and none has claim that my interpretation is exactly what Allah means. And even in the rulings of Fiqh, the fuqaha interpret things differently , even the words of RasoolAllah S,W are interpreted a little differently by the jurist. Hence each does their ijtihad or deduces a ruling, but never ever do they say that my deduction is the ultimate truth and that is exactly what Allah had intended and it is exactly what Prophet S.W has intended and there is no other room. So such types of claims no one has ever made. Somethings are crystal clear and there is no room for discussion and then there are certain things on which scholors differ. And that is what he is trying to say that we cannot monopolize.
Even regarding kuffar, the Scholors of Aqeeda from the maturidi school and ashari school have different views on how Allah will Judge different types of Kuffar. Hence the fact that we cannot even say with definitive about a particular Kafir how Allah will judge him .we only have a general ruling about the end of a kafir,But scholors have talked about what can happen differently is a kafir was in a certain state or his experience was in a certain way then how will Allah judge him. So the ultimate truth will open on the Day of judgement. How many things we believe to be in certain way, but on that Day Allah will reveal the reality about things and veils will be taken away. Ultimate truth about things will be established with surety on that day. Allah knows best.

[BriKevin]

I love his old pre-2001 talks

its shocking how people can change so much

Thats fair. But out of caution when I recommend his lectures to family and friends, I always make a distinction between his old and new ones, because I fear that unless one has a strong understanding of Islam they might get confused with his new way of saying certain things.

I have to agree with both of your statements.

[PRengine]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z68Q-A4I_Ls

[arrismVam]

I have to agree with both of your statements.

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...l=1#post482284

[nvmrfgopyy]

I have to agree with both of your statements.

Same. At times it's almost as if he knows the western media is filming him.

For anyone who doubts this go watch Be Peacemakers from last year on youtube where he goes about defending Americans for firebombing masjids. "they're not bad people!", Hamza Yusuf claimed. I stopped listening to his post 9/11 lectures since then.

[lLianneForbess]

Same. At times it's almost as if he knows the western media is filming him.

For anyone who doubts this go watch Be Peacemakers from last year on youtube where he goes about defending Americans for firebombing masjids. "they're not bad people!", Hamza Yusuf claimed. I stopped listening to his post 9/11 lectures since then.

I think he was telling muslims that it is our responsibility to educate people about Islam. He was saying that because we are silent, we have let extremists define our narrative. people see hateful imagery so some react violently against islam. It was within that context. I didn't see it as a defence, I saw it meaning that they did what they did out of ignorance. remember how terrible some of our sahaba were before they came to islam? But alhumdullilah they came to it didn't they and they became such beacons that so many of us carry their names.

And yes he is correct, we have to inform non-muslims if we live in their countries about true islam, educate them and be examplars in their community.
Of course he knows the western media is filming him. Every single leading muslim in the west and beyond is continually monitored by not only the mass media but by covert intelligence also. Even this website is. We are naive if we think otherwise.

[PRengine]

Same. At times it's almost as if he knows the western media is filming him.

For anyone who doubts this go watch Be Peacemakers from last year on youtube where he goes about defending Americans for firebombing masjids. "they're not bad people!", Hamza Yusuf claimed. I stopped listening to his post 9/11 lectures since then.

Brother try to understand what he says within the context. Reality bites, but its a fact we muslims have let all this happen to us, otherwise the promises of Allah are Haq.There can be certain things on which there can be disagreement with the shaykh, but when hes saying something Haq , then we have to accept. We have to be just and fair an accept our shortcomings too and take it positively and work to get better.

[rootoronpunty]

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...l=1#post482284

[alecoplesosse]

Of course he knows the western media is filming him. Every single leading muslim in the west and beyond is continually monitored by not only the mass media but by covert intelligence also. Even this website is. We are naive if we think otherwise.

What brother Faisal means is that Shaykh Hamza is playing to the gallery (saying what people want to listen).

Personally I too feared such an eventuality but did not want to give up Husn-Addhan.
Wassalam