[Wezfyowk]

I've asked the Alim and he said the hadith is clear (like there is 4 raka'ah in Zuhr) and there is no point of ikhtilaf.

Im not sure what you are saying. What hadith is clear?

[MinisuipGaicai]

Im not sure what you are saying. What hadith is clear?

The hadith or ayat about the sighting of the moon (I don't remember which one).

[Wezfyowk]

Salam aleikum
Is this what you are refering to:
Abbe for the insights. But so far, most of the Deobandi Ulama' that I've met, they all follow moonsighting. Maybe if I meet them for Ramadhan I can ask them about this and see if there is a different opinion. I forgot that you were going to ask. If I understand you correctly you asked and he answered thet there is no khilaf. The deobandis (the hanafis?) dont use calculations, because of the hadith "Fast when you see it..."

[gennnniiikk]

Salam aleikum
Is this what you are refering to:


I forgot that you were going to ask. If I understand you correctly you asked and he answered thet there is no khilaf. The deobandis (the hanafis?) dont use calculations, because of the hadith "Fast when you see it..."

salaams I have log in problems for the past few days.

could you please tell me what is the difference between khilaf & ikhtilaf. if you can give both laghtan & istilahan

[MinisuipGaicai]

Salam aleikum
Is this what you are refering to:


I forgot that you were going to ask. If I understand you correctly you asked and he answered thet there is no khilaf. The deobandis (the hanafis?) dont use calculations, because of the hadith "Fast when you see it..."

correct. sorry for not being clear.

[Wezfyowk]

salaams I have log in problems for the past few days.

could you please tell me what is the difference between khilaf & ikhtilaf. if you can give both laghtan & istilahan

Salam aleikum
As far as i know there is no consensus in how these terms should be defined, but one of my shaykhs said that khilaf is a difference of opinion when one side doesnt have any dalil for their position. Ikhtilaf, on the contrary, is based on dalil. Others say that there are no differences between khilaf and ikhtilaf and that the words can be used as synonyms.

In the book Mu'jam lughat al-fuqaha it says:
الخلاف المنازعة بين المتعارضين ولا يشترط أن تكون هذه المنازعة عن دليل

اختلاف ضد الاتفاق اختلاف الأقوال أو الأفعال الناشئ عن دليل


correct. sorry for not being clear Not you fault, i forgot that you told me that you would look it up. Jazakumu Allahu khayran

[gennnniiikk]

BRO Abbe I would like to know your credentials. you know your stuff. & then could we exchange email addies too.

[Wezfyowk]

Salam aleikum
You can ask the mods for my email.

[gennnniiikk]

I dont even know how to do that

[ZZtop]

Abbe has studied in tarim, like you, sidi Saslams

[gennnniiikk]

Abbe has studied in tarim, like you, sidi Saslams

how do I send him my email addi over here. I need help with a few things. how far did you guys go in the manhaj

[MinisuipGaicai]

Salam aleikum
In Nayl al-Raja (sharh of the Safina) it says:
وزاد الرملي كوالده أمرا ثامنا وهو وجوبه على من عرف الهلال بحسابه أو تنجيمه وكذا من اعتقد صدقهما

Al-Ramli, and his father, added a eighth factor (to determine when Ramadan starts): its obligatory for a person who calculates (munajjim and haasib) the birth of the moon to fast and it’s also obligatory upon anyone who believes that their calculations are correct. (sorry for the translation)

In the hashiya of al-Nihaya its mentioned that al-Shihab al-Ramli was asked if this can be applied to a situation when the astronomer is certain that the moon is born and that it’s possible to see it with the eye, or if it applies to a situation when the moon is born but can’t be seen or when its born and the astronomer is not sure if it can be seen or not. He answered that it applies to all three situations.

But al-Ramli mentions that calculations can’t be used to force everyone in a country to fast. It applies only on a personal level, not on societal level.

Is this opinion applicable to the Shawal moon as well?

[zdoppiklonikaa]

The best work regarding the hanafi view on moon sighting which I have read is إرشاد أهل الملة إلى إثبات الأهلة by Allamah Bakhit Muti'iy. It is excellent and clears alot of of the misunderstandings ulema today and layman have regarding moon sighting and accepting information on moon sighting. Views of other madhaahib are also mentioned.

[pirinosa]

The best work regarding the hanafi view on moon sighting which I have read is إرشاد أهل الملة إلى إثبات الأهلة by Allamah Bakhit Muti'iy. It is excellent and clears alot of of the misunderstandings ulema today and layman have regarding moon sighting and accepting information on moon sighting. Views of other madhaahib are also mentioned.

What about a very very short summary?

[diutuartina]

Is this opinion applicable to the Shawal moon as well?

As salaamu alaykum,

Looking at the arabic it refers to the hilal and it doesn't refer to the 'birth of the new moon' or 'astronomical new moon' which cannot be sighted nor can it be classified as 'Hilal'. Conflating the two can be a source of confusion.

Whoever sees the hilal should begin fasting for ramadan whether or not his testimony is accepted or not, and in relation to this eighth factor, that if someone is positive by some means that the month has begun -ru'ya, khabar, or [in his statement] hisaab then they should begin fasting.

The end of the month has a different Hukm. Even if you have seen the moon with your own eyes you are not permitted to stop fasting if your testimony is not accepted.

wallahu alim

[Wezfyowk]

As salaamu alaykum,

Looking at the arabic it refers to the hilal and it doesn't refer to the 'birth of the new moon' or 'astronomical new moon' which cannot be sighted nor can it be classified as 'Hilal'. Conflating the two can be a source of confusion.

Whoever sees the hilal should begin fasting for ramadan whether or not his testimony is accepted or not, and in relation to this eighth factor, that if someone is positive by some means that the month has begun -ru'ya, khabar, or [in his statement] hisaab then they should begin fasting.

The end of the month has a different Hukm. Even if you have seen the moon with your own eyes you are not permitted to stop fasting if your testimony is not accepted.

wallahu alim

Are you saying that this is the opinion of the shafi'is or the hanafis or both?