[viagsjicguara]

what is the literal meaning of the word "wahabi"?
what is the definition of "wahabi?
why they are called wahabi?
what is deobandi?
who should be the followers of wahabis and deobandi?

"wahhabi" refers to people who reject madhab. they consider ashari and maturadi aqeedah as deviant. even tho 90% of muslims follow madhab and ashari/maturadi aqeedah. they are a hanbali offshoot, who took the athari aqeedah of hanbalism and made it extreme.

wahhabbis dont call themselves "wahhabi". they call themselves "salafi" because they claim that, we reject madhab because we follow the salaf (sahaba). we follow salafi while the deviants follow others like imam hanafa, malik, sahafi'i, etc. even tho muslims have always followed imams, and hanifa was himself a salaf. and every salaf themselves learnt things from imams. nobody is born with pre-existing knowledge.

the reason ppl call "salafis" wahhabi is because nobody believes or recognizes their claim that they follow salafs. every hanafi, maliki, sahafi considers himself salafi as we allow believe we follow salaf/sahaba/sunnah. but since these "salafi" reject our aqeedah, they are an innovation/deviation. and the reason they are called "wahhabi" is because Abdul wahhab was the first to spread this type of ideology, which became implemented after the saudis took power.

so the point is like this. if hanafis follow hanaf, malikis follow malik, hanbalis follow hanbal. these "salafis" actually follow imam wahhab, so they are WAHHABI. this is to tell them that we reject your claim that you dont follow any "imam or madhab". you DO follow the madhab of Abdal wahhab, so you are wahhabi.

salafis says they dont follow madhabs or do taqleed (following an imam/madhab). but reality is every salafi is following either this imam or that imam. few hanafis ever quote hanaf, what he said or what he did. but every salafi will quote ibn taymiyyah, as if he is some sort of Prophet. and all the different groups among salafi are following either this or that imam. basically, they become hypocrites.

afterall, if anyone wants to even have any knowledge u must seek it from one who is knowledgable. the Quran says if we have any problems, to see an expert. if we are sick then go to a doctor, if we want to build a house go to an engineer. if u want to know about religion then u need imam. so even salafis follow imams. so all they did is basically reject madhab saying u cant follow imams, while they themselves make up their own imams and follow them like gods....

[Falik]

The Deobandis need to be sub-divided for a better understanding in two other groups Salafi-Deobandi , Barelvi-Deobandi.

[Falik]

The aim is show how much tolerance we have for other sunni groups.

If wahabis are deviant and kafir then declare them just as Barelwis were declared. Approach Mufti Allamah Taqi Uthmani -- the leading deobandi scholar -- and get a statement from him ? Is that really so hard.

Harder than lifting K2

[viagsjicguara]

Here is a fatwa from the askimam site

Answer 12121

Being classified as part of the Ahlus sunnah wal Jama'ah or not, is not based on jurisprudence (Fiqh), it is on the basis of beliefs (Aqaaid). While in practice, the Wahabis are very similar to us, their completely incorrect beliefs demand that we highlight this to the public. As long as they aren't actively opposing us or spreading their Bidah Beliefs, we do not oppose them, but rather try to keep a good relationship with them. The Ulama of Deoband as a whole always had good relationships with the Saudi Ulama, however as a result of the number of books being published by the Wahabis against the Ulama of Deoband as well as their increasing efforts in spreading their Bidah beliefs and their public classifying the beliefs of the Asharis and Maaturidis as misguidance and shirk, our Ulama have been forced to reconsider our relationship with them.

They remain in the fold of Islam, but are classified as Ahlul Bidah on account of their beliefs.

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Mufti Ebrahim Desai

the salafis started getting the courage to speak out and spread their beliefs the moment they realized they were sitting on black gold (oil). since then this less than 10% of muslims started controlling 90% of the muslim-wealth. the salafis are in the muslim world- what jews are in the western world.

they use their wealth to convert ppl, especially in kaffir countries. cuz once they build their missions there, the kaffir cannot differentiate between salafism and the other TRUE islam. they dont know the differences or even the fact that 90% of muslims DONT follow this religion. and they have formed mosques, TV channels, media, even most websites online are controlled by them. these 10% of muslims (salafis) control probably 70% of the islamic sites online.

the biggest effect is on the jihadi media/forums. they are in total control, and we cant do anything about it. they use the name and achievements of taliban and hanafi mujahideen, to falsely claim to tehir arab and foreign members that this is "salafi jihad", "they are salafi". while they go on bashing hanafism, tableeghi, deobandis, madhab. and their members, many of whom are converts dont know a thing.

we want an islamic state where all the groups cannot practice freel. just like the mufti says, we have not problem with them. but they have a problem with us. wether ur deobandi, barelwi, salafi, maliki we all want to practice our beliefs and we will let the others practice their beliefs. but the SALAFI are the only ppl who wont let others practice their own beliefs. they want to FORCE others into becoming salafis.

look at afghanistan where the Islamic Emirate allow all groups and schools to practice their beliefs. doesnt matter if ur shafii, salafi, hanafi, deobandi. but in somalia, Shabaab has forced their political rivals to either submit to them or die. and they are making everyone become salafi. they have dug up graves, taken away bodies. and they continue to fight with other groups calling them "grave worshippers".

there is nothing in barelwism, hanafism, malikism that says "you must fight the others, or make them submit". but SALAFI and WAHHABI aqeedah by definition is to reject others and MAKE them follow ur path. a barelwi can stand beside a salafi, but a salafi cant stand without yelling "grave worshipper!!". no one is forcing salafis to convert in afghan/pakistan, but salafis want everyone to convert in maghreb, somalia, saudi, etc.

I'm pretty sure that book is a forgery.

Hate the Wahabis all you want, but be fair at the very least.

yeah. just because u hate someone doesnt mean you have to believe in BS just to pit something against them. ppl hate bush, so they try to blame him for 9/11. ppl hate wahhabis, so they try to blame them for destuction of the ottomans. we should be truthful, not just support all these BS conspiracies.

Forgery? Nearly everything stated in that book has come true thanks to this wahabi sect.

You can keep closing your eyes and pretend it's a forgery.

Maybe you can explain in what ways wahabis have revived Islam apart from breaking the Ottomon Empire, making way for multinational corps to suck out muslims wealth and creating a royalty system that is responsible for destruction of the Middle East?

the establishment of saudi arabia and the destruction of ottoman caliphate happend in two different years. just because they happened within a close time-frame, the haters of wahhab/salafis try to link the two. saudi formed in 1902, whereas its the british and french that brokeup the ottoman empire in 1918.

why?? cuz the ottomans bloody LOST in World war 1, and the remains of their empire was the prize for the winning side. they broke up the ottoman empire into several states- palestine, iraq, syria, lebanon and armenia. and they broke up the austro-hungarian empire (another loser of WWI) into- Hungary, austria, czechoslovakia and yugoslavia.

its actually because SAUDI ARABIA was formed independant from the ottoman empire that it was actually SAVED. otherwise, mecca and medina would be under their occupation. so i thank the SAUDIS and WAHHABIS for for saving our holy land, too bad palestine was under ottomans, cuz look what the brits did to that!!

and it wasnt the saudis or wahhabis who fought against the ottomans, it was everybody. the ottomans were a mess, the entire empire was in proverty. baghdad the former capital of the islamic caliphate was in ruins. naturally ppl are gonna revolt to bring down the ottomans. and that included the turks themselves!!

the arabs revolted in saudi, they revolted in greater-syria (which was divided into iraq and syria). and the turks revolted in turkey!! why do u think ataturk came?? most of the rebels were former ottoman army or officials. they became tired of their problems and decided to revolt, just like ppl today revolted in egypt, tunisia, libya. it was the SAME thing.

the difference between turkish revolt and the arab revolt was that, the arab knew their religion. the arabs knew that ottoman does NOT equal islam. they are not one and the same. so when the arabs defeated ottomans, they all kept islam. whereas in turkey, they saw that ottomans were the problem so islam must also be the problem. cuz the ottomans claimed to be "khilafa, caliph, hand of God, represantative of Allah". and islam is SUPPOSED to be the solution, not the problem. so if ottomans are the problem, then islam must be part of that problem. so the Turks adopted secularism to get rid of their problem.

[artkolkovk]

here you go master abul wahabi

some reading for you to do

http://www.ummah.net/Al_adaab/salafi2.html

jazakallah

[saumemeva]

The Deobandis need to be sub-divided for a better understanding in two other groups Salafi-Deobandi , Barelvi-Deobandi.

Hanbalis need to be sub-divided for a better understanding: Real-Hanbali, and Fake-Hanbali.

Oh wait, this was already done a long time ago.

[MaugleeRobins]

Hanbalis need to be sub-divided for a better understanding: Real-Hanbali, and Fake-Hanbali.

Oh wait, this was already done a long time ago.

[Falik]

Hanbalis need to be sub-divided for a better understanding: Real-Hanbali, and Fake-Hanbali.

Oh wait, this was already done a long time ago.

Even before that , the Muslims were divided into "Ahlul Ul Hadith" and "Ashab Ul Rayi'". Khateeb Al-Baghadi ra in "Tareekh e Baghdad "has greatly expsed on the "Ahlul rayi'".

[Falik]

It will be really helpful if one (deo) sends a copy of this thread to the respected Maulana Syed Arshad Madni.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeafXTXr6q0

[Falik]

maneatinglizard and co. should also teach some Aqeedah infact Hizbiyya) classes to Maulana Tariq Jameed DB and Hafiz Abu Bakr

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWzRmNsf9_w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0C6f37wDTo

[saumemeva]

Even before that , the Muslims were divided into "Ahlul Ul Hadith" and "Ashab Ul Rayi'". Khateeb Al-Baghadi ra in "Tareekh e Baghdad "has greatly expsed on the "Ahlul rayi'".

Yeah, it's a good thing he exposed the Ahlur-Ray for allowing the worshiping of shoes, and it's even better that you're here to remind us.

Imagine what would happen if the Ummah accepted Imam Abu Hanifa and if the majority of the Ummah followed his fiqh. Imagine the fitna!

Oh wait...

[tobaccoman]

Bismillah
Br. Ati seems to be saying age old view. Hanafi school as it stands today is not the same as in early days of inception. Hence ahlul Ray claim holds no bearing. One must look at why it was so and how it evolved into current understanding of Jursiprudance. Hanafi School did not stop progressing after the demise of Imam Abu Hanifa. Countless scholars in respective field have been working since then to the point where it has reached. Taking statment outof context befits christian evenglical zionist xenphobe but not any muslim who is sincere and just.
Allahualam

So your saying the Hanbali school in Saudi Arabia can also progress into a new current understanding of Jurisprudence in regards to the Madhab and it's Usool?

[Pszinygv]

Hanbalis need to be sub-divided for a better understanding: Real-Hanbali, and Fake-Hanbali.

Oh wait, this was already done a long time ago.

You mean Imam Ibn al-Jawzi , right??

Ohh wait, was Imam Ibn al-Jawzi not the same one who affirmed the 'uloow of ALLAH ?? But woudn't that make him to a "Fake-Hanbali"??

Even before that , the Muslims were divided into "Ahlul Ul Hadith" and "Ashab Ul Rayi'". Khateeb Al-Baghadi ra in "Tareekh e Baghdad "has greatly expsed on the "Ahlul rayi'".

I hope you know that there are many things written about Imam Abu Hanifa in "Tareekh Baghdad" which are not true!! By the way: I've noticed that you attack the Hanafi Madhab in more than one thread without any reason.... fear ALLAH !!

[saumemeva]

You mean Imam Ibn al-Jawzi , right??

Ohh wait, was Imam Ibn al-Jawzi not the same one who affirmed the 'uloow of ALLAH ?? But woudn't that make him to a "Fake-Hanbali"??



I hope you know that there are many things written about Imam Abu Hanifa in "Tareekh Baghdad" which are not true!! By the way: I've noticed that you attack the Hanafi Madhab in more than one thread without any reason.... fear ALLAH !!

Brother, I am not against every Salafi, and I don't try to pass ibn al-Jawzi's opinions as the opinions of the Atharis.

I'm just responding to dr.ati's trolling remarks, so some of the things I've said are actually the arguments of other people, not of my own, and I only mention them to show dr.ati that anyone can stoop to his level easily.

[KojlinMakolvin]

They can't help it. Salafist Taqiyah being practicied. This is their forte in missquoting and missleading

or anti-salafist practicing taqiyah and doing their forte in missquoting and missleading as shown here

Come on be fair. look it from both sides.

[Pszinygv]

Brother, I am not against every Salafi, and I don't try to pass ibn al-Jawzi's opinions as the opinions of the Atharis.

I'm just responding to dr.ati's trolling remarks, so some of the things I've said are actually the arguments of other people, not of my own, and I only mention them to show dr.ati that anyone can stoop to his level easily.

Sorry brother, I misunderstood you.

After my last post I searched for the "worshipping shoes"-comment of dr.ati (because you mentioned it in your post)... I was really shocked!!!! Allahul musta'an!!! dr.ati you should be ashamed of yourself!!! (I hope you made tawba for that comment!) But what suprises me even more, that he didn't get banned for that comment!?!??!

[strongjannabiz]

Forgery? Nearly everything stated in that book has come true thanks to this wahabi sect.

You can keep closing your eyes and pretend it's a forgery.

It's a forgery because it is full of things that could not possibly have happened, historically.

I dislike the Wahhabis myself, but one should be just in their criticism and not just accept anything that goes against those we dislike. That's the way of the Barelvis when they repeat ridiculous accusations against the Deobandi akabir, or the way of the Shi'ah when they repeat ridiculous accusations against the ahl as-Sunnah, or the way of the Wahhabis themselves when they repeat ridiculous accusations against the Sufis.

I take it you believe "Peshawar Nights" to be an authentic work of history as well?

[pirinosa]

I take it you believe "Peshawar Nights" to be an authentic work of history as well?

I don't know about "Peshawar Nights" but I believe "Peshawari Naan" to be an authentic work of pastry!

Ok, sorry, back to the topic...

[Falik]

Sorry brother, I misunderstood you.

After my last post I searched for the "worshipping shoes"-comment of dr.ati (because you mentioned it in your post)... I was really shocked!!!! Allahul musta'an!!! dr.ati you should be ashamed of yourself!!! (I hope you made tawba for that comment!) But what suprises me even more, that he didn't get banned for that comment!?!??!

You are at it again. When did i say that Imam Abu Hanifa ra allowed worship of shoes ( Naa'audubillah)? It was narrated by khatib Al baghdadi ra not me.

Better to read the whole thread before coming up with polemics.

[Falik]

Yeah, it's a good thing he exposed the Ahlur-Ray for allowing the worshiping of shoes, and it's even better that you're here to remind us.

Imagine what would happen if the Ummah accepted Imam Abu Hanifa and if the majority of the Ummah followed his fiqh. Imagine the fitna!

Oh wait...

So in every thread you will come up with this issue. You for yourself have assumed the authority to classify the madhabs into real and fake. However , the classification of "Ahlul rayi" and "Ahlul Hadiths" can be found in almost every book of Tabqaat. For example , read "hujjat allah al-baligha " of Shah Waliullah ra and he has given a whole account of this issue.Infact , he has a whole chapter in that book named " the account of Ashab ul hadiths and Ahlul Rayi".