[Stivenslivakovishhhs]

HILAAL DETERMINATIONS OF SAUDI ARABIA NOT VALID
18 Ramadhaan 1432 – 18 August 2011

IT IS HARAAM TO END RAMADHAAN ON THE BASIS OF THE PRONOUNCEMENTS OF SAUDI ARABIA


Saudi Arabia has abandoned the Shariah’s method of beginning and ending the Islamic months. It no longer goes by the physical sighting (ROOYAH) of the moon. It has forged its own calendar and decides Ramadhaan, Eid and the Islamic months in accordance therewith, not according to the command of Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam).
TODAY IS THE 18TH RAMADHAAN. BUT SAUDI ARABIA HAS ALREADY DECIDED THAT EID WILL BE ON TUESDAY 30TH AUGUST.



The following facts are truly disturbing:
• Ramadhaan time-tables which are distributed in Makkah Mukarramah and Madinah Munawwara this year records Ramadhaan with 29 days.
• In previous years, the cleaners at Musjidun Nabawi in Madinah, before Maghrib informed those who were in I’tikaaf that they had to ‘pack up’ and leave because it was already decided that ‘tomorrow’ would be Eid.


The following is an article written by Mufti Muhammad Yusuf Danka, Imaam of Croydon Musjid, England:
EID IN RAMADHAAN?
The Saudi government has created a calendar (Umm ul Qura) for establishing the start of every new Islamic month, be it Ramadhan, Hajj or Eid. The basis of this calendar is upon the ‘birth of the new moon’ and not viewing the crescent moon with the naked eye (Ruyat Hilal) as is required by the Shariah and Sunnah. Due to this, the Saudi announcement for the new Islamic month occurs 1 day before the actual sighting of the new crescent moon. This has been witnessed for many years now.
This year (2011), the Umm ul Qura calendar has been published and they have already written that Monday, 29th August 2011 will be the last fast of Ramadhan. Tuesday, 30th August 2011 will be Eid ul Fitr. Even if there is no sighting of the moon according to the requirements of Shariah (Ruyat Hilal) in the Entire World.
Many masajids in the UK will this fact and follow the Saudi announcement on the ‘birth of the new moon’.
They will perform Eid in Ramadhan and jeopardise a fast of Ramadhan due to blindly following the Saudi announcement.
Sayidina Abu Hurairah (ra) relates: The Prophet (saw) stated: ‘The person who leaves a fast of Ramadhan without a valid Shariah excuse (being ill or on a journey), if he was to fast for his entire life, he cannot fulfil the loss of that single day of Ramadhan he missed.’ (Jami Tirmidhi/ Masnad Ahmad/ Sahih Bukhari)
The fast of Ramadhan is considered so great in Islam that if a person purposefully breaks a fast, he has to perform 60 fasts continuously as a retribution for this act. There is no other act of worship in which the retribution is so severe. For example, if one Salah is made Kadha, only that single Salah is to be performed.
We should be mindful of our Hereafter, of standing before Allah and answering for our actions, of the loss in reward and Mercy that we are gathering by following Saudi Arabias announcements blindly. Of course we should be concerned about uniting the Ummah, but it should be for the Quran and Sunnah and not be for political gains. This is a matter of worship and safeguarding a basic and fundamental principle of Islam.
May Allah (swt) grant us the ability to unite upon the Truth and the straight path and keep us firm on it, Ameen!

‘Birth of the moon’ is not the principle of the Shariah for the determination of the beginning and ending of the Islamic months. The Waajib principle is actual physical sighting. Those who follow the pronouncements of Saudi Arabia will be indulging in the heinous major sin of abstaining from a Fardh Saum (Fast) of Ramadhaan, and of observing ‘Eid’ in Ramadhaan. Organizations which act in accordance with Saudi pronouncements should be rejected. For the sake of some fictitious ‘unity’, the Law of Allah Ta’ala is being rejected.

http://www.themajlis.co.za/index.php...cles&Itemid=27

[CreativeAcrobate]

seeing that the hizbul ulama like to publish fatwas by the majlisul ulama on their website, we should be seeing this fatwa published on the hizbul ulama website pretty soon inshallah............because ulama forbid us from cherry picking fatwas to support our own agenda i doubt that ulama from hizbul ulama would cherry pick fatwas to support their stance on the moonsighting issue.

i have checked the hizbul ulama website and this fatwa has not yet been published there. So to bring it to their attention i will email it to them and report back when i receive a response from them.

[CreativeAcrobate]

The email has been sent. I hope hzbul ulama will respond soon.

[YmolafBp]

Has anyone contacted the Saudis for confirmation about this? Like is there an official Saudi proclamation to this effect? I know Saudi has a track record of erroneous "sightings", but to completely abandon even the pretense of sighting is serious news. Is it possible that the calendar just lists tentative dates?

[Twendypreency]

there are some of my family and friends who went for umrah for the last ten days of ramadhaan and eid... what happens to their thirtieth fast? do they abandon the fast and make eid on the 29th fast or do they make eid alone the day after saudi celebrates???

[ArrichMer]

there are some of my family and friends who went for umrah for the last ten days of ramadhaan and eid... what happens to their thirtieth fast? do they abandon the fast and make eid on the 29th fast or do they make eid alone the day after saudi celebrates???

Assalamu Alaikum Brother,*I will not dwell much on this. However, let me focus on the main argument of this article. If we defeat it then the whole article to me is null and void ?*1.***** It argues that Saudi has came up with this new calendar. Do you know that this calendar has been in use for 32 years ?!!!2.***** The main purpose of the calendar is to fix the date for government contracts and appointments.*I think this is good enough ?*The difference this year is by moving the responsibility of announcing and approving the sighting from the Judicial Council to the Main Court. The main court decided to use the scientist argument in case they argue that the moon cannot be sighted. In such case, the court will ask for more than one person to validate the sighting. The usual practice is that ONE person is good enough to approve it.*It also important to understand that Masjids in UK or any other places should not follow Saudi. They should endeavor to spot the moon at their countries where they live. The moon birth varies from country to another.*The issues becomes global with regards to Hajj. Well, unfortunately, Saudi’s are in control of the holy land and should decide to their best of knowledge.*Please note that I read the first part of the article.**Best Regards,*Khalid M. AlShamlanRiyadh, Saudi Arabia

[Fekliopas]

http://www.emirates247.com/news/emir...08-22-1.414362

[Twendypreency]

Assalamu Alaikum Brother,*I will not dwell much on this. However, let me focus on the main argument of this article. If we defeat it then the whole article to me is null and void ?*1.***** It argues that Saudi has came up with this new calendar. Do you know that this calendar has been in use for 32 years ?!!!2.***** The main purpose of the calendar is to fix the date for government contracts and appointments.*I think this is good enough ?*The difference this year is by moving the responsibility of announcing and approving the sighting from the Judicial Council to the Main Court. The main court decided to use the scientist argument in case they argue that the moon cannot be sighted. In such case, the court will ask for more than one person to validate the sighting. The usual practice is that ONE person is good enough to approve it.*It also important to understand that Masjids in UK or any other places should not follow Saudi. They should endeavor to spot the moon at their countries where they live. The moon birth varies from country to another.*The issues becomes global with regards to Hajj. Well, unfortunately, Saudi’s are in control of the holy land and should decide to their best of knowledge.*Please note that I read the first part of the article.**Best Regards,*Khalid M. AlShamlanRiyadh, Saudi Arabia

uurm is think you meant sister...? okay thnx for the reply... By saying: The main court decided to use the scientist argument in case they argue that the moon cannot be sighted... Does this mean TELESCOPICALLY sighted? if it does than your reply does'nt answer my question - a veeery vital question because in the article of the majlis it says: that according to the sunnah and shariah the moon must be sighted with the naked eye.... so what happens to the fast of millions of muslims who are in saudi arabia, isnt their ramathaan gonna be incomplete? and even if they using this method or calender for thirty two years, a wrong does'nt become right after thirty two years. at least here in south africa it does'nt - i'll understand if saudi arabia is different! lol! forgive me a nd correct me if i misunderstood your post. sister mmb786

[GeorgeEckland]

If you mean the Umm Al Qura calender is used to determine Ramadhan, Eid etc. This is wrong and doesnt happen. Even the thought of this is ridiculous.

Also, Saudi did not determine when Eid is yet. This is also wrong and didnt happen and never has.

Also, there has been no announcement, so thats not only inaccurate, but its totally madeup.

Theres a whole process involving sheikhs and Islamic courts on seeing al hilal and the issue is certainly not taken lightly.

Appearly the website is an anti salafi website warning of "salafi crusades", which explains why they spread such lies. Its not hard to determine what the process is on knowing when its Ramadhan or Eid, but apperantly they didnt even concern themselves to ask and just decided to give this baseless fatwa.

I mean even if you are sufi ash'ari or whatever, and disagree with salafis, it doesnt give you the right to fabricate stuff and issues such fatwas based on fabrications and inaccuracies just because you dont like them.

[w3QHxwNb]

If you mean the Umm Al Qura calender is used to determine Ramadhan, Eid etc. This is wrong and doesnt happen. Even the thought of this is ridiculous.

Also, Saudi did not determine when Eid is yet. This is also wrong and didnt happen and never has.

Also, there has been no announcement, so thats not only inaccurate, but its totally madeup.

Theres a whole process involving sheikhs and Islamic courts on seeing al hilal and the issue is certainly not taken lightly.

Appearly the website is an anti salafi website warning of "salafi crusades", which explains why they spread such lies. Its not hard to determine what the process is on knowing when its Ramadhan or Eid, but apperantly they didnt even concern themselves to ask and just decided to give this baseless fatwa.

I mean even if you are sufi ash'ari or whatever, and disagree with salafis, it doesnt give you the right to fabricate stuff and issues such fatwas based on fabrications and inaccuracies just because you dont like them.

Shaikh,

I was born here and I live here. Since years, Ramadan and Eid are happening ACCORDING to the CALENDAR

I'll find the articles written by Mufti Abu Lubaba sahib which clearly show you WITH PROPER proof why it is wrong.

[GeorgeEckland]

Shaikh,

I was born here and I live here. Since years, Ramadan and Eid are happening ACCORDING to the CALENDAR

I'll find the articles written by Mufti Abu Lubaba sahib which clearly show you WITH PROPER proof why it is wrong.

Yakhee I am Saudi and from here! Since when was Umm Al Qura calender used to determine Eid? Thats ridiculous! Every year the night before at a late time theres an announcement by the sheikhs from supreme court. Many sit by TVs and open the radios waiting for the announcement. This is common knowledge. Saying otherwise is simply a lie. And looking into that website seeing how anti salafi it is, I can see why, and that its not simply a misunderstanding.

[Twendypreency]

Shaikh,

I was born here and I live here. Since years, Ramadan and Eid are happening ACCORDING to the CALENDAR

I'll find the articles written by Mufti Abu Lubaba sahib which clearly show you WITH PROPER proof why it is wrong.

please do that asap, btw how do you guys make eid ie. like when? are you ppl gonna keep the thirtieth fast?

[w3QHxwNb]

please do that asap, btw how do you guys make eid ie. like when? are you ppl gonna keep the thirtieth fast?

We'll make Eid when it's announced.

[ArrichMer]

read from the bottom up


Dear Brother,
Asslamo ALikum

You should differentiate between daily life and special worship occasion where there is a beginning and end.
Note that to pray say Dhuhr the Sun should reach the highest altitude, but to eat or to go to work no need
to have any knowledge of the Sun position.

We have freedom to regulate our daily life provide it does not contradict (directly or indirectly) with our Islamic teaching.
You have a choice to eat what ever you like provide it is lawful and goes with Shariah.

As I mentioned previously, Um UlQura calendar is a conventional calendar to regulate our daily life and as rough guidance
to religious occasions.

Best regards.

----- Original Message -----
From:
To: Dr. Ali Mohammad Al-Shukri
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 5:25 PM
Subject: RE: Hilal sighting

Aslamualykum

Shukran for the prompt reply.

Why do they follow the Umm ULQura calendar in all other months except Ramadhaan and Thil Hijjah where they use the Sunnah Method. Is it not contrary to Islam to follow ones own whims and fancies throughout the year but when the holy month of Ramadhaan and Thil Hijjah comes then only they selectively choose the Sunnah method.

Which Aalim of deen is at the fore fromt of such contradicting methods?

Shukran
-----Original Message-----
From: Dr. Ali Mohammad Al-Shukri [mailto:alshukri@kfupm.edu.sa]
Sent: 10 October 2005 03:44
To:
Subject: Re: Hilal sighting
Dear Brother,
Asslamo Alikum

Saudi Government uses Umm UlQura calendar as civil (conventional) calendar for regulating daily life.
For Ramadhan and Hajj, we go with what our Prophet (.S.A.A.W.S) order us to observer, that is to
sight the crescent.
As I explained below in my previous email, It is open to any person to claim sighting the crescent
provided that he is good practicing Muslim. Some times a person claims that he sighted the crescent,
but may be it was some thing else, like a street light, star light, planet light, a curve piece of hair, etc.
Note, it is enough to have a single witness to start the fast and two witnesses to end Ramadhan.
It is simple as that, no complication. If more details and accuracy are required, then there should be
more that one witness. Because it is part of the worship, like prayer and other obligation.
Suppose , not knowing, you have mistaken in the direction of Qibla. Do you thing your prayer is not acceptable ?

Allah says (what the meaning is) " Where ever your direct your face, Allah's face is there."

I am not saying that prayer in any direction, but if unintentionally, you have prayer in the wrong direction, without
discovering that, then your prayer is ok.

Our religion is suitable for every where and at any time and for any nation.
It is clear and simple.

Any comments.

Best regards.


----- Original Message -----
From:
To: Dr. Ali Mohammad Al-Shukri
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 2:31 PM
Subject: RE: Hilal sighting

W/salaam

Sheikh which calendar does the Saudi goverment rule by? Is it the Ummul Qura calendar?

We have read articles that for the current month of Ramadhaan which started in Saudia on the 4th of October the moon was not sighted.

Shukran

-----Original Message-----
From: Dr. Ali Mohammad Al-Shukri [mailto:alshukri@kfupm.edu.sa]
Sent: 08 October 2005 04:10
To: Subject: Re: Hilal sighting
Dear Brother
Asslamo Alikum

Please differentiate between the Umm UlQura Calendar (civil calendar of Saudi Arabia) which is based on calculation
and what is actually observed in Saudi Arabia for start and end of month of Ramadhan.

Our religious scholars go with the hadith you mentioned ' sighting the moon’. There is no restriction in the sighting.
if a well known person comes and testify that he observed or sighted the crescent, then the next day is the start
of the month. Note here, one witness is enough. If Allah wants it very accurate and precise sighting, then more
witnesses should be required.
For example, four witnesses are required to testify seeing an adultery act. Not just that, they should testify that
they saw the actual parts in the act. The reason is that the consequences will effect families.
In case of moon sighting, it is a worship.

Of course, a clear FTWA is needed to refute any testimony that is totally in contradiction with calculations.
Then we are making life difficult. Our religion is simple, clear, suitable for scientists and common persons.
And of course valid for every where and at any time and period.

Your comments in welcomed


Best regards.

----- Original Message -----
From: To: alshukri@kfupm.edu.sa
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 12:12 PM
Subject: Hilal sighting

Dear Sir
Aslamualykum

I would like to confirm the details regarding the method of the Saudi regarding their month calculation and their philosophy around it.
From Ahadith of Nabi (saw) we only hear about ' sighting the moon’, which means to see it with the naked human eye. I have read a article from yourself regarding the floors in the Saudi method. It seems that there sighting is based completely on calculations and not on Physical sighting of the moon by a Human. Please tell me from a Shariat point of view how do the Saudi Ulama back up their decision to go ahead and begin a month totally on calculations and not on actual sighting by a human?
Are the Saudi citizens that have spoken out against this method?
Who began this method of calculating the months?
Is it Islamic?

Your answerers on these queries of mine will be highly appreciated.
Shukran


Question: Asalamualykum Is the sighting of the moon with the naked eye and act of Ibadat? Can we determine the starting of months by using Astronomical calculations or do we have to sight the moon with the naked eye?


The Answer:
Sheikh Salman al-Oadah writes:

I hold the opinion that Muslims should fast and hold `îd with the people of the country wherein they reside whether they rely on calculations, use both calculations and a crescent sighting, or rely exclusively upon a sighting. Allah likes people to be together and dislikes separation.
Muslims should avoid looking absurd in front of other nations, particularly in highly visible matters such as fasting, `Îd, and the pilgrimage.

----------------------------

From the website editors:

The decision on which sighting to follow (a local one, an international one, or a calculation) must ultimately be made by the scholars in your locality. When that decision is made, everyone must follow it. There is no excuse for different communities within the same region to begin Ramadan and to celebrate `Id on different days. The issue at hand is based on ijtihâd and differences of opinion are allowed in this case. However, when it comes down to implementation, the community must be united. Whoever goes against the majority decision and divides the community is wrong. Therefore, even if you disagree with the ijtihâd that is reached by the majority of the scholars in your country, you must abide by their decision for the sake of Muslim unity.

And Allah knows best.

Fatwâ Department Research Committee of IslamToday.net chaired by Sheikh `Abd al-Wahhâb al-Turayrî
Question: Asalamualykum What is the Ruling regarding the issue of sighting the moon in Saudi Arabia. From the reports that we are getting they says that the moon is not sighted physically by a Human Being but it is astronomical calculations that determines the month in Saudi Arabia. Is this astronomical calculations that is done regarding the moon not against the hadith if Nabi (saw) wherein he said begin when you SEE the moon and end when you SEE the moon?

The Answer:
By Sheikh `Abd al-Wahhâb al-Turayrî
Former Professor at Imam University

Wa `alaykum al-Salâm wa Rahmah Allah wa Barakâtuh

What you said about the crescent sighting in Saudi Arabia is very strange. We have lived in this country as have our fathers before us, and many of us know personally those who saw the crescent themselves and whose testimony was taken into account in certifying the start or end of the month. There are no false claims in this issue whatsoever. I wonder what makes you take up such a serious claim while you can see the problems that the Muslims are facing today and their suffering worldwide.

----------------------------

Dear questioner:

Al-Salâm `Alaykum wa Rahmah Allah wa Barakâtuh.

The moon is sighted in Saudi Arabia as follows: The courts stay open in Saudi Arabia duering the last nights of Sha`bân. The people who sight the Moon must swear an oath that they did so. Then two character witnesses must be provided to attest to the sanity and character of each person who claims to have made the sighting.

Fatwâ Department Research Committee of IslamToday.net chaired by Sheikh `Abd al-Wahhâb al-Turayrî

----------------------------

Please also read the following from our archives:

The Answer:
Sheikh Salman al-Oadah writes:

I hold the opinion that Muslims should fast and celebrate îd with the rest of the people in the country wherein they reside, regardless of whether they rely on calculations, use both calculations and a crescent sighting, or rely exclusively upon a sighting. Allah likes people to be together and dislikes separation.

Muslims should avoid looking absurd in front of other nations, particularly in highly visible matters such as fasting, `Îd, and the pilgrimage.

----------------------------

From the website editors:

The decision on which sighting to follow (a local one, an international one, or a calculation) must ultimately be made by the scholars in your country. When that decision is made, everyone must follow it. There is no excuse for different communities within the same region to begin Ramadan and to celebrate `Id on different days. The issue at hand is based on ijtihâd and differences of opinion are allowed in this case. However, when it comes down to implementation, the community must be united. Whoever goes against the majority decision and divides the community is wrong. Therefore, even if you disagree with the ijtihâd that is reached by the majority of the scholars in your country, you must abide by their decision for the sake of Muslim unity.

And Allah knows best.

Fatwâ Department Research Committee of IslamToday.net chaired by Sheikh `Abd al-Wahhâb al-Turayrî

[lagunaEl]

Assalamu alaykum


Regarding moon sighting;

The day bureaucrats, technocrats and astronomers AID rather DICTATE the scholars in Saudi, that day will be the eid of the century for ummah.

This is based on my experience for decades.

[saumemeva]

So they only use sighting for Ramadan and Dhul Hijja?

Isn't that still batil?

Besides that, aren't the requirements on the Hanafi madhab different for what is a valid moonsighting? For example, isn't a large group of people required to confirm the sighting on a clear day?

[Elelaytet]

Yakhee I am Saudi and from here! Since when was Umm Al Qura calender used to determine Eid? Thats ridiculous! Every year the night before at a late time theres an announcement by the sheikhs from supreme court. Many sit by TVs and open the radios waiting for the announcement. This is common knowledge. Saying otherwise is simply a lie. And looking into that website seeing how anti salafi it is, I can see why, and that its not simply a misunderstanding.

so which of you is right?you both live there:s

[Obebtetibre]

HILAAL DETERMINATIONS OF SAUDI ARABIA NOT VALID
18 Ramadhaan 1432 – 18 August 2011

IT IS HARAAM TO END RAMADHAAN ON THE BASIS OF THE PRONOUNCEMENTS OF SAUDI ARABIA

http://www.themajlis.co.za/index.php...cles&Itemid=27

Salam Alaikum,

The brother said the website above is anti-Salafi so we shouldn't rely on it.

We should end Ramadan and Celebrate with Saudi Arabia. Great scholars of Saudi are involved in this so how can you say it is Haram. A great Phd scholar, graduate of al-Azhar also said the same thing that it is better to follow Saudi Arabia.

[sigrekatonov]

To summarize mospikes post.

The fundamental flaw in the Saudi system is that they only physically look for the moon before Ramadan, Shawwal and Dhul Hijjah.

The rest of the year they use the pre-calculated calendar, therefore when it comes to the time when they look for the moon, they are looking a day or two earlier.
Coupled with the fact they easily accept testimonies means you have a recipe for erroneous "sightings"

[cefunonge]

We should end Ramadan and Celebrate with Saudi Arabia. Great scholars of Saudi are involved in this so how can you say it is Haram. A great Phd scholar, graduate of al-Azhar also said the same thing that it is better to follow Saudi Arabia.

Why not Nigeria, or Bangladesh who both have qualified scholars ? Where in shari'ah does it say following sa'udi kingdom is mustahhab ?