[Juersdodfs]

check this
http://www.askimam.org/fatwa/fatwa.p...e494d8a73752a8

isn`t that istigatha which alot of people consider shirk...

[Juersdodfs]

I know the forms of tawassul, through deeds etc.

but the type where you ask the prophets or the pious :S sorta confused

[Ferkilort]

There are lots of different things that are commonly termed tawassul.

1. the mentioning of your deeds, and through mentioning Allahs names and attributes- this tawassul is accepted by all.

2. through the status of the Prophet and the Auliya- this tawassul is differed upon. Some scholars say its permissable, others say its not. The differences here are not major differences, and both views can be respected.

3. Where you request another person to make dua to Allah for you. This is also accepted by all.

4. Where one requests a deceased person to make dua for you, this is bid'ah but not shirk.

5. Where an individual directly asks the deceased for help (istighatha, isti'ana), this is shirk that needs to be condemned.

[Ferkilort]

Mufti Taqi Usmani in the Deoband.org article:

Third: tawassul in the sense of seeking du’a from the mutwassal bihi, because it is more hopeful that his du’a will be accepted by Allah (Glorified and Exalted is He) due to his righteousness and virtue. Tawassul in this sense is permissible by ijma’. This kind of tawassul has not been established except through the living, so its permissibility is restricted to the living.
Ml. Ashraf Ali Thanvi states:
And second is to request him [the person being called upon to make du'a to Allah], and this is permissible through those from whom it is possible to seek for du’a, but such possibility is not proven through any evidence for those who have passed away. So we shall restrict this type of tawassul to those who are alive.
taken from: http://www.deoband.org/2010/09/aqida...er-than-allah/

[PaulCameron]

Salam Aleykum,

This is an old thing I wrote and saved, you can read it if you want:

Firstly, Tawassul is of four Kinds:

1- Asking Allah by his Names:

example: O Merciful O Compassionate Lord, I Beg you by your mercy and compassion to Ya Allah to please erase my Sins.

This Kind of Tawassul was often used by the Prophet PBUH it is agreed upon.

2- Asking Allah by your Good deeds (Which you did in Allah's name):

example: O Allah I ask you by my Acts of worship(Salat, Zakat, Honesty, Obeying parents, Visiting the sick ect...) to make me from the companions of your Prophet PBUH in heaven.

This Kind of Tawassul is agreed Upon and there are many examples of it such as the story of the three who entered the cave each one asked Allah by his good deeds.

3- Asking Allah by the Dua of the Pious People and Awliyah:

example: You go to your elderly sheikh or you go to your mother and say: Please make Dua for me so that Allah will grant me success.

This kind of Tawassul is agreed upon because The companions (RA) did it, they used to go to the Prophet PBUH and ask him "O Apostle of Allah please make Dua for us".

Narrated by Abu Huraira:
Whenever the Prophet (p.b.u.h) lifted his head from the bowing in the last Raka he used to say: "O Allah! Save 'Aiyash bin Abi Rabi'a. O Allah! Save Salama bin Hisham. O Allah! Save Walid bin Walid. O Allah! Save the weak faithful believers. O Allah! Be hard on the tribes of Mudar and send (famine) years on them like the famine years of (Prophet) Joseph ." The Prophet further said, "Allah forgive the tribes of Ghifar and save the tribes of Aslam." Abu Az-Zinad (a sub-narrator) said, "The Qunut used to be recited by the Prophet in the Fajr prayer."
[Sahih al-Bukhari]

So here he was an example of him making Dua for those who asked him as well as asking Allah to weaken his enemies.

The Prophet PBUH said in his Hadith:
'Umar b. Khattab reported: I heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Worthy amongst the successors would be a person who would be called *Uwais*. He would have his mother (living with him) and he would have (a small) sign of leprosy. Ask him to beg pardon for you (from Allah).
(Bukhari - Book #031, Hadith #6171).

So The Prophet PBUH told his companions that they may ask this Pious Man to make Dua for him because he is very kind to his mother and Allah loves him.

Another Hadith:
Narrated Anas: Whenever drought threatened them, 'umar bin Al-Khattab, used to ask Al-abbas bin 'Abdul Muttalib to invoke Allah for rain. He used to say, "O Allah! We used to ask our Prophet to invoke You for rain, and You would bless us with rain, and now we ask his uncle to invoke You for rain. O Allah ! Bless us with rain."(1) And so it would rain.
(Bukhari Book #17, Hadith #123)

Since they knew That Al Abbas (RA) was a Pious Man they used to ask him to make the Dua for Allah.

Notice: In both Hadith they didn't Ask the dead for help, Otherwise the Prophet PBUH would have told them "Go to my grave and ask me and I will tell Allah to grant you what you wish".

4- Tawassul by the pious dead Awliya or those who are not present:

such as saying: "O Allah I ask you by the high rank of your slave Ubaidah bin al Jarrah (RA) to grant me a Pious progeny."

Now bin al Jarrah (RA) is a companion and he isn't currently present amongst us.
We asked Allah by him because we know that he is from the Awliya of Allah either preferably by a Quranic verse or a Sahih hadith such as:

The Prophet PBUH said: For every nation there is a trustworthy person and the trustworthy person of my Nation is Abu Ubaidah bin al Jarrah.
[Sahih bukhari]

Some scholars argue that it is not our place to ask Allah by the Rank Of The Awliya, Such as the Rank of Abu bakr or Uthman or Ali as they are the only ones who can ask Allah by their own rank and virtues.

This Kind of Tawassul is controvercial, some scholars permit it and some do not. Some scholars like Imam Ahmad said "It is permissible only in the case of the Prophet PBUH" while Imam al Shawkani said that it is permissible not just in the case of the Prophet PBUH but in the case of all the Awliya. I do not mind as long as the Person who makes the Dua knows exactly what he is saying, Otherwise he can confuse it with istighatha and this will lead to shirk.


Secondly, Istighatha:

example: Ya Ali madad or Ya Mahdi adrikni or Ya Sidi badawi Yassir amri...

in English that would be something like: O Abdul QadirJilani please grant me a blessed year.

By Consensus of the scholars of Ahlul Sunnah this is an extremely dangerous Shirk which may lead to hellfire.


Thirdly, The Dua of the Quran and the Prophets peace be upon them:

Allah had sent his prophets to teach us how to worship him, So the best and most accepted Dua is that of the Prophets in the Quran or the Sunah, They are Direct Duas for Allah and one needs to memorize a many as he can from them.

example of a Dua from the Quran:

But [ere this], indeed, We had tried Solomon by placing upon his throne a [lifeless] body; and thereupon he turned [towards Us; and] (38:34) he prayed: “O MY SUSTAINER! Forgive me my sins, and bestow upon me the gift of a kingdom which may not suit anyone after me: verily, Thou alone art a giver of gifts!” (38:35)

example of a Dua from the Sunnah:

Abdullah bin `Umar (May Allah be pleased with them) reported: The Messenger of Allah (PBUH) used to supplicate thus: "Allahumma inni a`udhu bika min zawali ni`matika, wa tahawwuli `afiyatika, wa fuja'ati niqmatika, wa jami`i sakhatika.

Translation: (O Allah! I seek refuge in You against the declining of Your Favours, passing of safety, the suddenness of Your punishment and all that which displeases You).''

[Sahih Muslim].

Indeed the Prophets are the best of example and the best of Dua is that which is made directly to Allah.

[Juersdodfs]

Mufti Taqi Usmani in the Deoband.org article:

Third: tawassul in the sense of seeking du’a from the mutwassal bihi, because it is more hopeful that his du’a will be accepted by Allah (Glorified and Exalted is He) due to his righteousness and virtue. Tawassul in this sense is permissible by ijma’. This kind of tawassul has not been established except through the living, so its permissibility is restricted to the living.
Ml. Ashraf Ali Thanvi states:
And second is to request him [the person being called upon to make du'a to Allah], and this is permissible through those from whom it is possible to seek for du’a, but such possibility is not proven through any evidence for those who have passed away. So we shall restrict this type of tawassul to those who are alive.
taken from: http://www.deoband.org/2010/09/aqida...er-than-allah/

But aren`t the Prophets alive in there grave,

[24MurinivaMak]

Salam Aleykum,

This is an old thing I wrote and saved, you can read it if you want:

Firstly, Tawassul is of four Kinds:

1- Asking Allah by his Names:

example: O Merciful O Compassionate Lord, I Beg you by your mercy and compassion to Ya Allah to please erase my Sins.

This Kind of Tawassul was often used by the Prophet PBUH it is agreed upon.

2- Asking Allah by your Good deeds (Which you did in Allah's name):

example: O Allah I ask you by my Acts of worship(Salat, Zakat, Honesty, Obeying parents, Visiting the sick ect...) to make me from the companions of your Prophet PBUH in heaven.

This Kind of Tawassul is agreed Upon and there are many examples of it such as the story of the three who entered the cave each one asked Allah by his good deeds.

3- Asking Allah by the Dua of the Pious People and Awliyah:

example: You go to your elderly sheikh or you go to your mother and say: Please make Dua for me so that Allah will grant me success.

This kind of Tawassul is agreed upon because The companions (RA) did it, they used to go to the Prophet PBUH and ask him "O Apostle of Allah please make Dua for us".

Narrated by Abu Huraira:
Whenever the Prophet (p.b.u.h) lifted his head from the bowing in the last Raka he used to say: "O Allah! Save 'Aiyash bin Abi Rabi'a. O Allah! Save Salama bin Hisham. O Allah! Save Walid bin Walid. O Allah! Save the weak faithful believers. O Allah! Be hard on the tribes of Mudar and send (famine) years on them like the famine years of (Prophet) Joseph ." The Prophet further said, "Allah forgive the tribes of Ghifar and save the tribes of Aslam." Abu Az-Zinad (a sub-narrator) said, "The Qunut used to be recited by the Prophet in the Fajr prayer."
[Sahih al-Bukhari]

So here he was an example of him making Dua for those who asked him as well as asking Allah to weaken his enemies.

The Prophet PBUH said in his Hadith:
'Umar b. Khattab reported: I heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Worthy amongst the successors would be a person who would be called *Uwais*. He would have his mother (living with him) and he would have (a small) sign of leprosy. Ask him to beg pardon for you (from Allah).
(Bukhari - Book #031, Hadith #6171).

So The Prophet PBUH told his companions that they may ask this Pious Man to make Dua for him because he is very kind to his mother and Allah loves him.

Another Hadith:
Narrated Anas: Whenever drought threatened them, 'umar bin Al-Khattab, used to ask Al-abbas bin 'Abdul Muttalib to invoke Allah for rain. He used to say, "O Allah! We used to ask our Prophet to invoke You for rain, and You would bless us with rain, and now we ask his uncle to invoke You for rain. O Allah ! Bless us with rain."(1) And so it would rain.
(Bukhari Book #17, Hadith #123)

Since they knew That Al Abbas (RA) was a Pious Man they used to ask him to make the Dua for Allah.

Notice: In both Hadith they didn't Ask the dead for help, Otherwise the Prophet PBUH would have told them "Go to my grave and ask me and I will tell Allah to grant you what you wish".

4- Tawassul by the pious dead Awliya or those who are not present:

such as saying: "O Allah I ask you by the high rank of your slave Ubaidah bin al Jarrah (RA) to grant me a Pious progeny."

Now bin al Jarrah (RA) is a companion and he isn't currently present amongst us.
We asked Allah by him because we know that he is from the Awliya of Allah either preferably by a Quranic verse or a Sahih hadith such as:

The Prophet PBUH said: For every nation there is a trustworthy person and the trustworthy person of my Nation is Abu Ubaidah bin al Jarrah.
[Sahih bukhari]

Some scholars argue that it is not our place to ask Allah by the Rank Of The Awliya, Such as the Rank of Abu bakr or Uthman or Ali as they are the only ones who can ask Allah by their own rank and virtues.

This Kind of Tawassul is controvercial, some scholars permit it and some do not. Some scholars like Imam Ahmad said "It is permissible only in the case of the Prophet PBUH" while Imam al Shawkani said that it is permissible not just in the case of the Prophet PBUH but in the case of all the Awliya. I do not mind as long as the Person who makes the Dua knows exactly what he is saying, Otherwise he can confuse it with istighatha and this will lead to shirk.


Secondly, Istighatha:

example: Ya Ali madad or Ya Mahdi adrikni or Ya Sidi badawi Yassir amri...

in English that would be something like: O Abdul QadirJilani please grant me a blessed year.

By Consensus of the scholars of Ahlul Sunnah this is an extremely dangerous Shirk which may lead to hellfire.


Thirdly, The Dua of the Quran and the Prophets peace be upon them:

Allah had sent his prophets to teach us how to worship him, So the best and most accepted Dua is that of the Prophets in the Quran or the Sunah, They are Direct Duas for Allah and one needs to memorize a many as he can from them.

example of a Dua from the Quran:

But [ere this], indeed, We had tried Solomon by placing upon his throne a [lifeless] body; and thereupon he turned [towards Us; and] (38:34) he prayed: “O MY SUSTAINER! Forgive me my sins, and bestow upon me the gift of a kingdom which may not suit anyone after me: verily, Thou alone art a giver of gifts!” (38:35)

example of a Dua from the Sunnah:

Abdullah bin `Umar (May Allah be pleased with them) reported: The Messenger of Allah (PBUH) used to supplicate thus: "Allahumma inni a`udhu bika min zawali ni`matika, wa tahawwuli `afiyatika, wa fuja'ati niqmatika, wa jami`i sakhatika.

Translation: (O Allah! I seek refuge in You against the declining of Your Favours, passing of safety, the suddenness of Your punishment and all that which displeases You).''

[Sahih Muslim].

Indeed the Prophets are the best of example and the best of Dua is that which is made directly to Allah.

Brother TripolySunni, nice post.

[Paiblyelaxy]

Theres a big difference between the two. You are correct, Istighathah is what is considered shirk. However, some wrongly refer to Istighathah as Tawassul. Brother TripoliSunni and "Hussains" post are pretty accurate.

As for the prophet peace be upon him being alive, or martyrs who are alive (with their Lord, as the Qur'aan says) this is usually used as an arguement to go to the prophet at his grave and ask him for help, in a way no companion ever did. This then extends to Jilani, Hussain, Haqqani etc and never ends.

Qur'aan says

"And they worship besides Allah things that hurt them not, nor profit them, and they say: "These are our intercessors with Allah." Say: "Do you inform Allah of that which He knows not in the heavens and on the earth?" Glorified and Exalted be He above all that which they associate as partners with Him!"

So they didnt really say that they are Allah, but they just considered them intercessors.

Also

`And those who take Awliya (note the word used here is Awliya) beside Him (Say):'We worship them only that they may bring us near to Allah (swt). Verily Allah (swt) will judge between them concerning that wherein they differ. Truly, Allah (swt) guides not Him who is a Liar and a disbeliever.' (Qur'an 39:4)

"To proceed, if anyone amongst you used to worship Muhammad, then Muhammad has passed away, but if (anyone of) you used to worship Allah, then Allah is Alive and shall never die. Allah said, "And Muhammad is but a messenger; the messengers have come before him; if then he dies or is killed will you turn back upon your heels? And whoever turns back upon his heels, he will by no means do harm to Allah in the least and Allah will reward the grateful." (3.144)

'Umar said, "By Allah, when I heard Abu Bakr reciting it, my legs could not support me and I fell down at the very moment of hearing him reciting it, declaring that the Prophet had passed away."[

This was the position of the companions, as they didnt remain in denial, saying no hes alive, and twist verses to make it permissable to go to his grave and ask for help etc. Allah is closer to us.

“And when My servants ask you concerning Me, then surely I am very near; I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he calls on Me, so they should answer My call and believe in Me that they may walk in the right way

[Juersdodfs]

Theres a big difference between the two. You are correct, Istighathah is what is considered shirk. However, some wrongly refer to Istighathah as Tawassul. Brother TripoliSunni and "Hussains" post are pretty accurate.

As for the prophet peace be upon him being alive, or martyrs who are alive (with their Lord, as the Qur'aan says) this is usually used as an arguement to go to the prophet at his grave and ask him for help, in a way no companion ever did. This then extends to Jilani, Hussain, Haqqani etc and never ends.

Qur'aan says

"And they worship besides Allah things that hurt them not, nor profit them, and they say: "These are our intercessors with Allah." Say: "Do you inform Allah of that which He knows not in the heavens and on the earth?" Glorified and Exalted be He above all that which they associate as partners with Him!"

So they didnt really say that they are Allah, but they just considered them intercessors.

Also

`And those who take Awliya (note the word used here is Awliya) beside Him (Say):'We worship them only that they may bring us near to Allah (swt). Verily Allah (swt) will judge between them concerning that wherein they differ. Truly, Allah (swt) guides not Him who is a Liar and a disbeliever.' (Qur'an 39:4)

"To proceed, if anyone amongst you used to worship Muhammad, then Muhammad has passed away, but if (anyone of) you used to worship Allah, then Allah is Alive and shall never die. Allah said, "And Muhammad is but a messenger; the messengers have come before him; if then he dies or is killed will you turn back upon your heels? And whoever turns back upon his heels, he will by no means do harm to Allah in the least and Allah will reward the grateful." (3.144)

'Umar said, "By Allah, when I heard Abu Bakr reciting it, my legs could not support me and I fell down at the very moment of hearing him reciting it, declaring that the Prophet had passed away."[

This was the position of the companions, as they didnt remain in denial, saying no hes alive, and twist verses to make it permissable to go to his grave and ask for help etc. Allah is closer to us.

“And when My servants ask you concerning Me, then surely I am very near; I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he calls on Me, so they should answer My call and believe in Me that they may walk in the right way

Thanks for the info, but I still do belive hes alive, but I don`t use this as an excuse for istigatha lol

[Abaronos]

Theres a big difference between the two. You are correct, Istighathah is what is considered shirk. However, some wrongly refer to Istighathah as Tawassul. Brother TripoliSunni and "Hussains" post are pretty accurate.

As for the prophet peace be upon him being alive, or martyrs who are alive (with their Lord, as the Qur'aan says) this is usually used as an arguement to go to the prophet at his grave and ask him for help, in a way no companion ever did. This then extends to Jilani, Hussain, Haqqani etc and never ends.

Qur'aan says

"And they worship besides Allah things that hurt them not, nor profit them, and they say: "These are our intercessors with Allah." Say: "Do you inform Allah of that which He knows not in the heavens and on the earth?" Glorified and Exalted be He above all that which they associate as partners with Him!"

So they didnt really say that they are Allah, but they just considered them intercessors.

Also

`And those who take Awliya (note the word used here is Awliya) beside Him (Say):'We worship them only that they may bring us near to Allah (swt). Verily Allah (swt) will judge between them concerning that wherein they differ. Truly, Allah (swt) guides not Him who is a Liar and a disbeliever.' (Qur'an 39:4)

"To proceed, if anyone amongst you used to worship Muhammad, then Muhammad has passed away, but if (anyone of) you used to worship Allah, then Allah is Alive and shall never die. Allah said, "And Muhammad is but a messenger; the messengers have come before him; if then he dies or is killed will you turn back upon your heels? And whoever turns back upon his heels, he will by no means do harm to Allah in the least and Allah will reward the grateful." (3.144)

'Umar said, "By Allah, when I heard Abu Bakr reciting it, my legs could not support me and I fell down at the very moment of hearing him reciting it, declaring that the Prophet had passed away."[

This was the position of the companions, as they didnt remain in denial, saying no hes alive, and twist verses to make it permissable to go to his grave and ask for help etc. Allah is closer to us.

“And when My servants ask you concerning Me, then surely I am very near; I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he calls on Me, so they should answer My call and believe in Me that they may walk in the right way

Assalam u Alikum wr wb

Brother,

Prophets(as), Siddiqeen(ar) and Shuhada(ar) being alive in their graves is the Aqeeda of ahlus Sunnah Wal Jamah.

The argument you present about Umar Al Farooq(ra) is the same argument Bilal Philips gives out and then tries to act funny about it which is out right ignorant and tells you the man has no idea about what Ahlus Sunnah claims. NO ONE denies RasoolAllah(saw) Passed away, It is established through the Quran that every soul shall taste death.

Prophets alive in their Graves is a Established matter and not controversial at all.

http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.a...=4597&CATE=348

http://www.livingislam.org/n/lpg_e.html

And it is absolutely permissible to Ask RasoolAllah(saw) at his grave to make Dua for us, infact this is the practice of Sahaba(ra), Tabiyeen(ra) and Tabatabiyeen(ra) and ones who came after them.

And the logic of Allah being closer to us which is why we should only ask Allah directly was not understood by the Sahaba(ra) like you seem to understand it. Sahaba(ra) would regularly ask RasoolAllah(saw) to make dua for them? Wasnt Allah Near when they asked RasoolAllah(saw) to make dua? If so, then why ask anyone to ask anything for you when you have a direct route(btw i am not denying one can directly ask Allah directly or should ask directly), Which actually also negates the evidence Wahabies provide about Umar(ra) asking Abbas(ra) for dua. And What about RasoolAllah(saw) asking Akabir Sahaba(ra) to ask Uwais Al Qarni to make Dua for the Ummah?

One can either say ask Allah directly Period and use no intermediary period. Or one can say one can ask people for dua which essentially is using an intermediary. You cant bake your cake and eat it too.

Because RasoolAllah(saw) is alive, along with other Prophets(as) including Siddiqeen and Shuhada(ar), therefore it is perfectly permissible to ask them for Dua. Infact RasoolAllah(saw) making dua is established through Hadeeth.

My life is a great good for you, you will relate about me and it will be related to you, and my death is a great good for you, your actions will be exhibited to me, and if I see goodness I will praise Allah, and if I see evil I will ask forgiveness of Him for you."

source: http://hadithproofsfortawassul.blogs...after-his.html

[Juersdodfs]

I belive they are alive and not dead! ( naoudubillah), and as for "And they worship besides Allah things that hurt them not, nor profit them, and they say: "These are our intercessors with Allah." Say: "Do you inform Allah of that which He knows not in the heavens and on the earth?" Glorified and Exalted be He above all that which they associate as partners with Him!".

When the muslims back then used to curse the Idol's, they used to curse Allah, so techincally that's why our Allah was not there God, rather those Idols were their real Gods.
This holy verse makes it clear that the non-believers
worshipped the idols to at tain nearness to Allah; they did
not treat them as the creator. It only served as a means of
accessibility to Allah but Allah rejected this form of
intermediation.