[masterso]

salaamullahi alaikum,

there are a few points which i would disagree with the subject concerned. i would like to begin by suggesting that you re-phrase the title, as the title you chose in fact makes all the ulama look like bad teachers, which in reality is never the case, alhamdulillah.

i myself graduated from a darul uloom and have taught previously and although i have to admit without doubt there are many aspects in our teaching, just like everything else in life, can be improved, you have to consider the situation in which we maktab teachers teach. we teach at a time during the day when all are tired, teachers and children. 5-7 pm is never an ideal time to teach kids who have been awake since 6 in morning and certainly never for that teacher whos just completed a hard shift at work.

in an ideal world, you would like to teach early morning when the kids are fresh and eager to learn, but then how many parents would disagree with that idea simply because they are not able to drop the kids off.

moving on, our jobs are restricted in many aspects, one of them being the lack of hours. we teachers are expected to teach quran, urdu, stories, hadeeth, history, akhlaaq and whole loads of other subject within the space of two hours over a period of five days a week to approximately 20 kids. this allows a teacher a handful of minutes with each child whilst at the same time having to control the class. i have never come across a maktab where they can afford to pay for a support teacher.

most of us are well aware that most maktabs, mosques run on very low budgets. they are barley able to support all the staff with equipment to help in teaching, yet when any mosques/maktabs decide to increase the weekly or annual fees there is a negative feed back from most parents. we are able to afford ps3/xbox games for 40 pound each yet are hesitant to increase the childs education fee from £5 to £6.

like it or not there are many parents who consider the maktab to be a place where the kids are away from home nagging others. parents expect the teacher to teach everything within these two hours yet they themselves are never willing to sacrifice time to sit with their kids and go through their homework. kids usually come into mosques having not learnt his prescribed homework/sabaq which therefore means they have to waste their first half an hour trying to learn. time is not on the teachers hand.

why is it that although a kid spends at 6 hours a day in school over the week, yet we feel the neccassity to employ a tutor during the weekend yet when it comes to the islamic education, we feel the 2 hours a day suffices the child. priority has to be given to evreything and that includes the islamic education.

how many parents regurlarly keep in touch with their childs teachers to check on the progress of their kids. it shows a lack of care when parents are called in yet never turn up.

my point is parents should shoulder much more responsibilty than they have and not jump on the 'blame the teacher' bandwagon.

hayyaakumullah wa bayyaakum

JazakAllah for the lenghty post and your input into this matter is muich appreciated.

I do not believe that I need to rewrite the title since I am well versed in what is the definition of good teaching methods and have cited a few examples of Good teachers who were ulema. My intent is not malicious and I have utmost regards for the scholars of the deen and work closely with them however the gravity of this situtation is such that the good exceptional few does not deter from the majority that are ill prepared for teaching.

Further your examples are great for actual going on in the settings of a maktub/madressa life and are real and very valid point. However it still needs correlation with the point I am making 'ulema and their lack of teaching skills to make them good teachers' this has not relation to the parenting.

Is it possible and I say this with the utmost respect that you have not aquired or implemented the best teaching methods?

[masterso]

Whilst a PGCE will provide a good understanding of how to work with children, it's not always necessary unless a scholar is looking to become a school teacher. Its a long course and involves alot of hard work that not every scholar has the time for. A shorter teacher training course maybe a better option or a programme to teach communication and teaching skills. At our madrasah we've worked with the local college to provide a PTLLS (Preparing to Teach in the Lifelong Learnig Sector) course for local aalimahs to attend. Teachers from the college come the the madrasah to deliver the course. Its an 11-14 week course that provides teaching skills and a formal qualification for those who want to go on to teach in the private, vountary or community sector. Upon completion, there's also the option of further study qualification, suchas CTLLS (Certificate) and DTLLS (Diploma). Although its primarily aimed at those intending to teach young adults and mature students, there is much that can be applied to teaching children too.

Madaaris and ulamah organisations can also arrange training sessions amongst themselves on teaching skills, communication skills, social awareness, good practice etc where the more experienced and trained ulamah teach the junior ulamah and invite other teacher training professional to advice and guide for a year or two.

Also, not every aalim will make a good teacher. Each individual has their own personality, strengths and weaknesses and some will do better in other roles besides teaching. I can think of a few high calibre ulamah and muftis who do excellent work in other fields such as research, writing, speeches etc but don't necessarily have the intuition and touch of a good teacher.

Can you find this please.
JazakAllh

[masterso]

The OP works on the same line of thinking that Ulama are good for nothing!

far from it.

Ulema are bad teachers and should not teach kids......

The words serve a purpose and specific to kids there is a reason for being specific to kids and not adults or their spouses or other members of the community, etc or even other aspects of their lives.

I have been in the company of great personalities, even masters of tariqah, but they are not good teachers of young children. Partially since they are not experienced in all of their learning and discipline to deal with children. In many cases they have had a pleasant experiences with most of their own students as mureeds who follow the advise that is given to them and the relationship is amicable.

Give me the best of the breed and I will put them in a particular makhtoobs in St**** on t*** with some children 6 - 11 yrs old. I give them a month tops to survive it.

But in other places I hear children staying words like ' I hate ustaaad...' and when you listen to the reasons they are very valid. Most of them are since they just can not bond with the kids and to not have the skillset to work with them.

[DarrenBent]

Can you find this please.
JazakAllh

Find what?

[masterso]

Find what?

A link to the material by the ulema of South Africa.

[w3QHxwNb]

far from it.

Ulema are bad teachers and should not teach kids......

The words serve a purpose and specific to kids there is a reason for being specific to kids and not adults or their spouses or other members of the community, etc or even other aspects of their lives.

I have been in the company of great personalities, even masters of tariqah, but they are not good teachers of young children. Partially since they are not experienced in all of their learning and discipline to deal with children. In many cases they have had a pleasant experiences with most of their own students as mureeds who follow the advise that is given to them and the relationship is amicable.

Give me the best of the breed and I will put them in a particular makhtoobs in St**** on t*** with some children 6 - 11 yrs old. I give them a month tops to survive it.

But in other places I hear children staying words like ' I hate ustaaad...' and when you listen to the reasons they are very valid. Most of them are since they just can not bond with the kids and to not have the skillset to work with them.

And you should discuss it on a public forum in front of Awaam. They already trust ULama alot..

Imagine if Colonel did it!

Everyone would be eating him alive right now..

[masterso]

And you should discuss it on a public forum in front of Awaam. They already trust ULama alot..

Imagine if Colonel did it!

Everyone would be eating him alive right now..

Fair point and no malicious intent at all. In fact the opposite, I see it as an opportunity for improvement

[pkxlugbsbv]

From my personal experience, My ustad was a beautiful person. He taught me and my brother how to recite the Quran and lessons on Fiqh, history etc. He used to clear our doubts. Never shouted at us even once. Always had a smile.
May Allah give him Jannah. Ameen.

[w3QHxwNb]

Actually Hajrat,

It all depends on the person. If you want to be a good teacher, you will spend your 8 years effectively.

Same with any course for teaching, any gcse, and pgce, any Ca, any ACCA.. anything. You put your knowledge into practice you'll be a great teacher. You don't then you'll be a worst teacher.

This has got nothing to do with Ulama or Non Ulama.

We don't need Secular courses to tell us how we can teach effectively. Our deen studies are enough thank you.

[S.T.D.]

JazakAllah for the lenghty post and your input into this matter is muich appreciated.

I do not believe that I need to rewrite the title since I am well versed in what is the definition of good teaching methods and have cited a few examples of Good teachers who were ulema. My intent is not malicious and I have utmost regards for the scholars of the deen and work closely with them however the gravity of this situtation is such that the good exceptional few does not deter from the majority that are ill prepared for teaching.

Further your examples are great for actual going on in the settings of a maktub/madressa life and are real and very valid point. However it still needs correlation with the point I am making 'ulema and their lack of teaching skills to make them good teachers' this has not relation to the parenting.

Is it possible and I say this with the utmost respect that you have not aquired or implemented the best teaching methods?

may i ask you, what would you consider as good teaching and how do you define a good teacher?

hayyaaak

[STYWOMBORGOSY]

Fair point and no malicious intent at all. In fact the opposite, I see it as an opportunity for improvement

I doubt you had malicious intent, but your title does need to be re-worded. If you would just read your title and nothing else you would get the impression that Ulema are bad teachers. The title is supposed to convey what is in your message, not an attention grabber.

Ulema are bad teachers, AND should not teach kids is how it is read = You think Ulema are bad teachers, and in addition, they should not teach kids

What you mean is Ulema do not know how to properly teach kids. Two very different sentences. I know you mean the latter, but the title should be changed to reflect that. Hope I made sense, my writing is a bit confusing.

[idobestbuyonlinepp]

A few good books are:

1) Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم) - The teacher and his teaching methodologies
by Shaykh Abdul Fattah Abu Ghuddah (rahmatullah Alaih)

2) Etiquettes for Teachers and Students
By Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi (rahmatullah Alaih)

3) Taleem al Muta'allim
by Al-Zarnuji

4) The Memoir of the Listener and the Speaker in the Training of the Teacher and Student



But, I agree that this is not a topic that should be discussed with the general people, as it lowers the respect of the Ulama in the general public's eye.

There are many things that need to be solved, but the approach to the solution has to be done the right way. And the best way to do this is to approach the ulama themselves, whether they listen or not - approach them one by one and try to form a group of them that would start implementing solutions. And once others see the good results from this group, more people would join. But obviously this is very long and tiring work, and needs a lot of commitment, so most people will not do anything about it.

[Elissetecausa]

Mufti `Abdur Rahman Ibn Yusuf [hafidhahullah] has done duroos on Ta'llim al-Muta'allim. They are accessible from ZamZamAcademy.com.

[S.T.D.]

I doubt you had malicious intent, but your title does need to be re-worded. If you would just read your title and nothing else you would get the impression that Ulema are bad teachers. The title is supposed to convey what is in your message, not an attention grabber.

Ulema are bad teachers, AND should not teach kids is how it is read = You think Ulema are bad teachers, and in addition, they should not teach kids

What you mean is Ulema do not know how to properly teach kids. Two very different sentences. I know you mean the latter, but the title should be changed to reflect that. Hope I made sense, my writing is a bit confusing.

salaam,
your point is great and in general most of the people who have replied feel the same way and have been trying to instill this point. like i have mentioned earlier, teachers will be the first ones to admit that there are always room for improvement.

my question is, and i am still awaiting answers from the OP, what makes a bad teacher? or how do you define a good teacher?

in my books, i would consider a good teacher to be one who ultimately gets the message across and fulfills the objective of the lesson in a very professional manner with total love, respect, affection and understanding of children. simply being nice and simply not being horrible without getting the message across is totally futile. i am sure you would all agree with this.

how many teachers has the OP come across? how many institutes have you visited in order for you to come to this conclusion? as the old saying goes, you cant sweep everyone under same brush.

to be honest, i dont think there are many teachers left out there who cant teach. there are many different forms of teaching which can lead to fulfilling the objective.

hayyaak

[S.T.D.]

aaahhh!, finally we have seen a change to the title.

anyone ready for tea with butter croissant with strawberry jam your welcome.

[eskimosik]

my suggestion: Islamic Board should have the 'prescribed'....'Teacher's Training Degree Course' for

Ulema who are seeking their profession in teaching to kids/adults.

And this Degree Course should be a 'must' prerequisite for ulema to start their profession as a teacher.


Jazakallah OP for creating this very beneficial thread and giving readers/students... an opportunity to express their views!

[zbckFNlW]

Well, maybe Darul Ulooms and other madrassahs should have some extra courses for students who intend to teach children.

As for what the course consists of... I dunno. I believe al-Ghazzali wrote something about how to instruct children?

I do remember that as a kid I had some Ustadh who actually put me to sleep in class Alhamdulillah not all the teachers were like that, but some teachers actually seem to lack motivation.