[masterso]

Interesting conversation I was having with a nephew. He studies in Darul Uloom and I asked him what he will do when he finishes his studies. He replied that he would teach kids.

I told him not to teach kids since 'Ulema are bad teachers although excellent students'.

My experience has shown that Ulema [who are mainly men] that have no formal teaching qualifications and skills are terrible teachers. Easily getting frustrated, irresponsible, attacking young kids, lashing out, etc.

You could argue that they are very goood people, upright moral, dispensers or knowledge, etc but my argument is not on this basis, my argument is that they are ill prepared to teach kids.

Example: A can of coke has sufficient enough caffeine and sugar to make a child hyper-active. If they drink a can of coke prior to entering into a classroom and then once in there need to stay focused on repetitive reading the mind can not concentrate at all since that child is on a kind of high and the mind is therefore wandering....effectively you can not get anything out of that child.

Now do you as a teacher need to understand this? absolutely! and have an understanding of how you deal with this problem.

What about the desensitising of children due to television. Do they need to understand this and work with an existing solution towards teaching i.e. flash cards, interactive learning, etc. I think so.

Now I have explored the methods of the Salaf. Imaam malik [may Allah be please with him] was told by his mother to learn the forebearance of his teacher prior to his knowledge since she understoof the value of foreberance. Thus this gives you an idea of the quality that the teacher had and instilled in the student.

The late Moulana Iliyas [may Allah enlighten his grave] was a excellent teacher of students in his method of teaching. Very unique for that period and western education systems are applying this similar method now. That said he did not teach young kids.

In conclusion the earlier period scholars were amazing teachers in the way they taught the kids but this is not reflected in modern Ulema. [now do not think I am comparing them to schools teachers, since I know they are just as bad and as unqualified to teach]

Your thoughts?

[fedelwet]

I agree bro. Teacher's need to understand children and how to best behave with them/understand them... many forget what it was like to be a child once. The biggest problem of our times is the lack of good parents and good teachers

[masterso]

I agree bro. Teacher's need to understand children and how to best behave with them/understand them... many forget what it was like to be a child once. The biggest problem of our times is the lack of good parents and good teachers

Hamza Yusuf stated that great people are formed from one or two sources, either great parent[s] or great teacher[s]

[Uvgsgssu]

Absolutely agreed brother.

[Elissetecausa]

I agree with most of what you have stated. It is embarassing and if you may, an oxymoron to state that some `Ulamaa are not good teachers. I say this because `Ulamaa are supposed to be the masters of akhlaaq since there is no more Nabi to come. There is too much politics and ignorance these days.

Imām al-Ghazālī [رضي الله عنه]:

“Goodness of character was the attribute of the master of messengers, and is the fruit of the pious and self-discipline of the people of constant worship. Bad character is a mortal poison, which set a distance between man and the proximity of the Lord of the Worlds, and induced him to follow the path of Satan the accursed."

[إحيا علوم الدين]

[w3QHxwNb]

Please give us a solution.

[Qesomud]

Please give us a solution.

Assalamu alaikum,

Brother has already provided some degree of solution. Moreover a solution needs to be found by everyone. Instead of just asking for a solution we should work together to find a solution. What do you think should be done as well? I think there should be workshops with child psychologists,. etc. on how to deal with kids.

We cannot deny a problem and sweep it under the rug and imagine everything will be ok.

[fedelwet]

I don't know too many Ulema so I don't know whether they study books on how to raise children. I have heard there have been books written on this subject for centuries and great advice is given, advice I personally don't see implemented. Parents first and foremost need to read them but also teachers as they are the secondary parents (in a way).

[orbidewa]

All some liberal agenda politically correct issues being talked about here. We need to start instilling some PROPER discipline to our kids, that means smacking them when allowed to (not on the face), and making kids to short exerted spells of physical activitiy if they mess around. The television has taught a child to eat and be lazy, the only way out of this is a sharp culture shock. Take the kid off the sofa, make him run around for a bit, teach him the bad effects of TV, and throw in a few Hadith there.

In my view interactive learning only works WITH the low acheiving kids, mainly ones hwo have problems reading or writing but they are normally the ones with a creative and artistic mind.

[usaguedriedax]

Please see http://www.talimiboardkzn.org/index....d=11&Itemid=75

[CGH1KZzy]

Postgraduate teacher training (like a PGCE)

[fedelwet]

Postgraduate teacher training (like a PGCE)

Even the kuffar do these courses and don't get anywhere with their kids. We don't need extra qualifications, we just need people who know how to deal with children, which as far as I'm concerned, the kuffar generally don't know how to do either

Someone who is strict upon the sunnah (in terms of their character) is the best of teachers and people who can see the consequences of their words/actions and what effect they will have on their students

[masterso]

Even the kuffar do these courses and don't get anywhere with their kids. We don't need extra qualifications, we just need people who know how to deal with children, which as far as I'm concerned, the kuffar generally don't know how to do either

Someone who is strict upon the sunnah (in terms of their character) is the best of teachers and people who can see the consequences of their words/actions and what effect they will have on their students

That is correct.

Discipline comes from the latin root word disciple which means 'to teach', therefore the brother previously has used the word out of context when he said smack children or excercise a punishment since discipline is not to instill but to teach. If you were correct then Hadrath Anas ibn malik [may Allah be pleased with him] would not state 'that in the 10 years of servitiutude of the Prophet [peace be upon him] he has never reprimanded me'

The most effective form of teaching is to be a role model and he [peace be upon him] was the perfect role model.

Also education comes from the latin word 'educacos' which means 'from within' therefore the learning comes from within i.e self discipline and self management. These are activities that the person must learn and act upon themselves i.e. the children.

Part of the solution is for them to indentifiy that the problem the child has is that he is not lazy [although true] but lacks self motivation, drive, passion, etc. Or has it in different areas and not when it comes to learning or conducting chores, etc.

Now regards to the Sunnah it is absolutely the correct methodology however most do not ACT upon the Sunnah regards to characteristic i.e. Akhlaq. Although the theoretical knowledge is there.

The question is whether they should go to workshops or courses to be enlighted on the matter [assuming they do not know this] or they need be provided proper guidelines for disciplining children even if the teacher is not sincere in his motives.

Example would be that in the darul ulooms in UK smacking children has been banned for a while [I am specific in my selection of one] but some of the teachers still act upon this when they teach privately but the darool uloom has banned this practice. If asked what there take is on this they would say 'bring back the punishment'. Now this is not a question about 'spare the rod and spoil the child' scenario since there are many reasoning why there was a ban, but about the guidelines that come from above and others having to follow these guidelines.

So one proposed solution is to create a package or better a 'tool kit' on 'child education managment' according to the Sunnah laying out different response to different situations.

Moulana Seedat is the best example of a Scholar who I have yet to meet that has exceeded in this situation and has offered his support to other Scholars but only a few in my opinion are taking up his offer.

1. He has one to one chat with the parents asking if they are married, divorced or seperated since this will have an impact on the childs behaviour.
2. He looks at the grades or charts for the child at school which gives an idea of the childs capacity and capabilities.
3. If the child has any learning difficulties then he has a seperate class for these children.
4. Teachers must produced work patterns of what they will teach for the coming weeks.
5. Supervision for the teachers.
6. Students can complain regards to the teachers which will be addressed in the supervision [earlier if more serious]
7. Alima's or appa's play a serious role since they have a 'natural' persepective of how things should be done.

His parents evening attracts over a 100 parents, it was held in a town hall that he rented out and awards and rewards were given to the childern. No expense spared in what was considered a strategical event.

He will have 16 - 18 year boys who will come to him and have concerned about their sexuality i.e. are they straight or gay. How many scholars do you know that are in their 50's with long white beard that are approachable by the kids on the street to discuss these personal issues?

[Elissetecausa]

It's essential the `Ulamaa know how to deal with the teenagers of today, very critical stage.

[Twendypreency]

It's essential the `Ulamaa know how to deal with the teenagers of today, very critical stage.

imam ghazzaali i know this is off topic... but your name and location intrigues me... where or what is al-suicide in fisq?

[DarrenBent]

Postgraduate teacher training (like a PGCE)

Whilst a PGCE will provide a good understanding of how to work with children, it's not always necessary unless a scholar is looking to become a school teacher. Its a long course and involves alot of hard work that not every scholar has the time for. A shorter teacher training course maybe a better option or a programme to teach communication and teaching skills. At our madrasah we've worked with the local college to provide a PTLLS (Preparing to Teach in the Lifelong Learnig Sector) course for local aalimahs to attend. Teachers from the college come the the madrasah to deliver the course. Its an 11-14 week course that provides teaching skills and a formal qualification for those who want to go on to teach in the private, vountary or community sector. Upon completion, there's also the option of further study qualification, suchas CTLLS (Certificate) and DTLLS (Diploma). Although its primarily aimed at those intending to teach young adults and mature students, there is much that can be applied to teaching children too.

Madaaris and ulamah organisations can also arrange training sessions amongst themselves on teaching skills, communication skills, social awareness, good practice etc where the more experienced and trained ulamah teach the junior ulamah and invite other teacher training professional to advice and guide for a year or two.

Also, not every aalim will make a good teacher. Each individual has their own personality, strengths and weaknesses and some will do better in other roles besides teaching. I can think of a few high calibre ulamah and muftis who do excellent work in other fields such as research, writing, speeches etc but don't necessarily have the intuition and touch of a good teacher.

[w3QHxwNb]

I think, if we go through Seerat thoroughly and put it into practice, Adopt all the great Akhlaaq of our Nabi, we will be great teachers!

Simple

[DarrenBent]

I think, if we go through Seerat thoroughly and put it into practice, Adopt all the great Akhlaaq of our Nabi, we will be great teachers!

Simple

Very true. Approx 10 years ago I read through a file by a South African board of ulamah that explained good teaching practises in the light of the practises of the Blessed Prophet . It was very informative and enlightening and I remember passing it round to others to read. I'm not sure if it is online, but if someone can find it and link to it it would be a very beneficial read.

I think it was by Jamiat Ulamah KZN, but its not in the link provided by Sis ursis.

[S.T.D.]

salaamullahi alaikum,

there are a few points which i would disagree with the subject concerned. i would like to begin by suggesting that you re-phrase the title, as the title you chose in fact makes all the ulama look like bad teachers, which in reality is never the case, alhamdulillah.

i myself graduated from a darul uloom and have taught previously and although i have to admit without doubt there are many aspects in our teaching, just like everything else in life, can be improved, you have to consider the situation in which we maktab teachers teach. we teach at a time during the day when all are tired, teachers and children. 5-7 pm is never an ideal time to teach kids who have been awake since 6 in morning and certainly never for that teacher whos just completed a hard shift at work.

in an ideal world, you would like to teach early morning when the kids are fresh and eager to learn, but then how many parents would disagree with that idea simply because they are not able to drop the kids off.

moving on, our jobs are restricted in many aspects, one of them being the lack of hours. we teachers are expected to teach quran, urdu, stories, hadeeth, history, akhlaaq and whole loads of other subject within the space of two hours over a period of five days a week to approximately 20 kids. this allows a teacher a handful of minutes with each child whilst at the same time having to control the class. i have never come across a maktab where they can afford to pay for a support teacher.

most of us are well aware that most maktabs, mosques run on very low budgets. they are barley able to support all the staff with equipment to help in teaching, yet when any mosques/maktabs decide to increase the weekly or annual fees there is a negative feed back from most parents. we are able to afford ps3/xbox games for 40 pound each yet are hesitant to increase the childs education fee from £5 to £6.

like it or not there are many parents who consider the maktab to be a place where the kids are away from home nagging others. parents expect the teacher to teach everything within these two hours yet they themselves are never willing to sacrifice time to sit with their kids and go through their homework. kids usually come into mosques having not learnt his prescribed homework/sabaq which therefore means they have to waste their first half an hour trying to learn. time is not on the teachers hand.

why is it that although a kid spends at 6 hours a day in school over the week, yet we feel the neccassity to employ a tutor during the weekend yet when it comes to the islamic education, we feel the 2 hours a day suffices the child. priority has to be given to evreything and that includes the islamic education.

how many parents regurlarly keep in touch with their childs teachers to check on the progress of their kids. it shows a lack of care when parents are called in yet never turn up.

my point is parents should shoulder much more responsibilty than they have and not jump on the 'blame the teacher' bandwagon.

hayyaakumullah wa bayyaakum

[w3QHxwNb]

The OP works on the same line of thinking that Ulama are good for nothing!

Before 9/11, we madaris people had a sense of superiority complex in us. But after 9/11 everything changed.

I was in الاولي when 9/11 happened. A few years down the line, the whole thinking changed. We started hearing things like, Molvi's cant run a country. Not from the western media, but from our Ulama and our Madressah's head mufti himself. We then started MBA classes inside the madressah, english language courses, modern changes were implemented because MOLVIs can't run a country.

I always used to think why is that?

So one day.. I told them all. Let me go and burn all the books I've studied in these 6-7 years. Will put the ashes in the sea. What use is spending 8-9 years in a Madressahs studying deen and studying Ahadith when you can't even run a country?

Lanat hai aisay Ilm pur jo hume Hukumat bhi na chalwa sakay! (SHAME on such knowledge which can't even make us run a govt)



Same goes here.. If you STILL are a bad teacher after spending 8-9 years in a madressah with Ulama and Shuyookh studying AHADEETH then you don't deserve to be called an Alim in the first place.

Sorry for being rude and harsh!