Salt and Sunnah - Page 2 - DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate

**diplmixxxx** · 03-02-2009, 08:55 PM

todays salt is not salt

and todays milk is not milk

go for the natural sea crystals..more expensive

and try goats milk

its sunnah to find natural food too

and to be healthy eat according to needs etc

sunnahs are many

some are easy some not so

I love Sunnahs!!

**BuyCheapest** · 03-02-2009, 09:18 PM

i heard from an american brother ( brother as in 'yo ma brotha')

the sunnah, the better!

get it? the sooner the better

get it?? you dont

never mind

**wbondarmunw** · 03-02-2009, 09:45 PM

assalamo alikum

guess who

anyway, i was actually laughed at and ridiculed in tabligh when doing muzakhirah, i said it was a sunnah.

the guy who laughed at me was a purana sathi, although he has gone very wayward in recent times. according to him this is not a sunnah and was advice of a saint.

i apologise if i was mis-informed but judging by the previous thread about the salt tasting many others were misinformed as well, some saying it is a sunnah and some saying it isnt.

inshallah we will get to the bottom of this.

as a side note this actually illustrates the dire need to be taught by scholars and not laymen because laymen will always err on the half baked knowledge we possess.

Not all the time. What about when scholars themselves differ,which they do,on many many many issues. so who one has confidence in will narrate from them. dosent make the opposing view's 'wrong'.

Some scholars might indeed say tasting salt before before food is not sunnah. and they might indeed have their proofs. Dont we find this in the various views of the four schools. each school has its own criteria and methodology which differs from the other. does not make one 'superior' or more 'right' than another.

Thats why,in my muzakira's, I always generalise, so i would say we should eat accoring to the sunnah way, drink according to the sunnah etc,but not mention specifics. So then each person, goes to the scholars/books they have confidence and learns these sunnahs.

Some sunnahs are of course well known so mentioning them is fine, but my rule is, if you are unsure, don't say it.

**BuyCheapest** · 03-02-2009, 09:58 PM

Not all the time. What about when scholars themselves differ,which they do,on many many many issues. so who one has confidence in will narrate from them. dosent make the opposing view's 'wrong'.

Some scholars might indeed say tasting salt before before food is not sunnah. and they might indeed have their proofs. Dont we find this in the various views of the four schools. each school has its own criteria and methodology which differs from the other. does not make one 'superior' or more 'right' than another.

Thats why,in my muzakira's, I always generalise, so i would say we should eat accoring to the sunnah way, drink according to the sunnah etc,but not mention specifics. So then each person, goes to the scholars/books they have confidence and learns these sunnahs.

Some sunnahs are of course well known so mentioning them is fine, but my rule is, if you are unsure, don't say it.

true. i would just like to see the evidence for myself though. i know you posted something but i cant understand the arabic.

**wbondarmunw** · 03-02-2009, 10:08 PM

true. i would just like to see the evidence for myself though. i know you posted something but i cant understand the arabic.

Well someone loosely translated it for me but I cant remember it now. Come on people, can somebody please translate the Arabic into English which is in the original link in the first post.please?

I hope people can now understand some of the reasons why various fiqh issues are not part of the standard in TJ. But it is highly encouraged,nay imperative, that one learns that knowledge which one needs on a day to day basis from authentic scholars and books.

**leoto5Fm** · 03-02-2009, 10:32 PM

In the Arabic quotes only the statements of the jurists are mentioned, but not one single Hadith about taking salt.

The following classical sources are mentioned describing it as a sunnah: Al-Muhit, Al-Bahr al-Ra'iq, Hashiya ibn Abidin, Fatawa Hindiyya.

Also, in these quotes it is mentioned that starting and ending with salt is both sunnah.

And in the end, 2 Urdu Fatawa are mentioned without any quotes: Fatawa Mahmoodiyya (by Mufti Mahmood al-Hasan Gangohi) and Imdad al-Fatawa (by Mawlana Ashraf Ali).

**fd8IIys2** · 03-05-2009, 04:40 AM

Some people take salt before and after every meal religiously. Is it a Sunnah to have some salt before and/or after meals? Is there any reference in the life of Rasulullah Sallallahu Alyhi wa sallam or the Sahaba that this was done?

Question # q-14372236
Date Posted:04/03/2009

In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful,

Various classical jurists (fuqaha) of the Hanafi School mention in their respective works that it is from the general Sunna and recommended acts to commence and conclude one’s meal with salt, and that there are numerous medical benefits in doing so.

The renowned Hanafi jurist, Imam Ibn Abidin (Allah have mercy on him) states:

“It is from the Sunna to commence and conclude one’s meals with salt, rather in doing so; there is cure from seventy illnesses.” (Radd al-Muhtar ala ‘l-Durr al-Mukhtar 6/340. The same, more or less, has been mentioned in Al-Muhit al-Burhani 5/204, Al-Bahr al-Ra’iq 8/209 and Al-Fatawa al-Hindiyya 5/337. Imam Abu Hamid al-Ghazali also relates the same in his famous Ihya Uloom al-Din).

Hakim al-Umma Mawlana Ashraf Ali Thanawi (Allah have mercy on him) explains in his brilliant Fatawa-collection titled ‘Imdad al-Fatawa’ that although there is no clear Hadith of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) establishing this practice, and that the report attributed to him (Allah bless him & give him peace): “O Ali, commence and conclude your meal with salt, since salt is a cure for seventy illnesses such as insanity, leprosy, stomach pain and tooth ache” is deemed fabricated (mawdhu’) by many Hadith scholars, the act of commencing and concluding one’s meal with salt can not be considered totally baseless due to two reasons:

Firstly, Imam Bayhaqi relates in his Shu’ab al-Iman that Sayyiduna Ali (Allah be pleased with him) said, “Whosoever commences his meal with salt, Allah will eliminate seventy types of illnesses from him.” Imam Ghazali (Allah have mercy on him) also records this report of Sayyiduna Ali in his Ihya Uloom al-Din, and the commentator of the Ihya, Allama Murtadha al-Zabidi after providing reference to Imam Bayhaqi’s Shu’ab al-Iman does not judge the report to be fabricated. As such, this Mawquf report (a report traced back to a Companion of the Messenger of Allah, and not necessarily a saying of the Messenger of Allah himself) indicates some basis for this practice.

Secondly, there is a sound Hadith recorded by Imam Ibn Majah, Imam Tabarani and others from Sayyiduna Anas ibn Malik (Allah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said, “The best of your curries is salt.” (Sunan Ibn Majah, no: 3315) The term used in the Hadith to describe the good nature of salt is “Sayyid (leader)” and “leadership” requires it being at the beginning and end of one’s meal. Mawlana Thanawi further states that this could be the possible origin of commencing and concluding one’s meal with salt. However, he states, this practice should not be taken as a categorical religiously-established ruling, but rather, a desired course of action. (See: Imdad al-Fatawa 4/111-113)

So, in conclusion, one should not consider commencing and concluding one’s meal with salt to be firmly established through the Sunna, and as such, avoid placing exaggerated emphasis on it. At the same time, it should not be considered a totally baseless act having no origin whatsoever. It would be wrong to insist on taking salt before and after every meal, and likewise, it would be wrong to condemn someone who chose to do so. If salt is readily available on the table, one may commence and conclude the meal with it based on the fact that classical Hanafi jurists consider it a commendable act. However, if salt is not present, one should not go out of one’s way in seeking and demanding it. This is the middle way, Insha Allah, and as always, the best of ways is the middle way.

And Allah knows best

Muhammad ibn Adam
Darul Iftaa
Leicester , UK

**leoto5Fm** · 08-17-2011, 03:09 AM

Can anyone find the hukm of the scholars regarding this athar:

Firstly, Imam Bayhaqi relates in his Shu’ab al-Iman that Sayyiduna Ali (Allah be pleased with him) said, “Whosoever commences his meal with salt, Allah will eliminate seventy types of illnesses from him.” Imam Ghazali (Allah have mercy on him) also records this report of Sayyiduna Ali in his Ihya Uloom al-Din, and the commentator of the Ihya, Allama Murtadha al-Zabidi after providing reference to Imam Bayhaqi’s Shu’ab al-Iman does not judge the report to be fabricated. As such, this Mawquf report (a report traced back to a Companion of the Messenger of Allah, and not necessarily a saying of the Messenger of Allah himself) indicates some basis for this practice.

**leoto5Fm** · 08-17-2011, 04:03 AM

Apparently Mawlana Muhammad Tahir Patni (or Fattani as the Arabs call him) mentioned the mawquf hadith narrated by Sayyiduna Ali in tadhkirat al-mawdu'at:

وكذلك حكم السيوطي عليه بالوضع في اللآلئ المصنوعة (2/179).
وقال الفتني في تذكرة الموضوعات : "في اللآلئ " يا علي عليك بالملح فإنه شفاء من سبعين داء الجذام والبرص والجنون " لا يصح فيه عبد الله بن أحمد بن عامر وهو وأبوه يرويان عن أهل البيت نسخة كلها باطلة : قلت أخرج ابن منده عن معاذ بلفظ " استغنموا طعامكم بالملح فوالذي نفسي بيده أنه ليرد ثلاثا وسبعين نوعا من البلاء أو قال من الداء " والبيهقي عن علي بطريق آخر " من ابتدأ غداءه بالملح أذهب الله عنه سبعين نوعا من البلاء "." اهـ

http://shamela.ws/index.php/book/12738

So it would be a fabrication too?

**zCLadw3R** · 08-17-2011, 05:27 AM

Can anyone find the hukm of the scholars regarding this athar:

Have you checked al-Iraqi's takhrij of Ghazali's Ihya ?

**paralelogram** · 08-17-2011, 01:45 PM

Have you checked al-Iraqi's takhrij of Ghazali's Ihya ?

My grand dad and I were debating this issue on Saturday at the iftaar table. He was adamant that it was a confirmed/established practice of the Holy prophet of Islam, May peace and Blessings be upon him.

I said ‘ I don’t think soooo! ‘ i told him I’ll do my own ‘ ba’hth ‘ on this issue,, so I’ve come to SF and found this excellent thread

(so much for my ba’hth )

I’d also like to see some tahqeeq on all the quoutes attributed to the various ulama in the Fataawa presented above.

**leoto5Fm** · 08-18-2011, 02:12 AM

Have you checked al-Iraqi's takhrij of Ghazali's Ihya ?

Yes, but he does not comment on it. See the ihya p. 19, volume 2 downloadable on waqfeya.com.

**leoto5Fm** · 08-18-2011, 02:31 AM

This is what Suyuti said in al-laali which was also cited by Tahir Patni:

. (أخبرنا) هبة اللّه بن أحمد الحريري أنبأنا إبراهيم بن عمر البرمكي حدثنا أبو بكر بن نجيب حدثنا القاسم عبداللّه بن أحمد بن عامر حدثني أبي حدثني علي بن موسى الرضا حدثني أبي موسى حدثني أبي جعفر حدثني أبي محمد ابن علي حدثني أبي علي بن الحسين حدثني أبي الحسن بن علي حدثني أبي علي ابن أبي طالب مرفوعاً ياعلي عليك بالملح فإنه شفاء من سبعين داء الجذام والبرص والجنون: لا يصح والمتهم عبداللّه بن حمد بن عامر أو أبوه فإنهما يرويان نسخة عن أهل البيت كلها باطلة. (قلت) قال أبو عبداللّه بن مندة في كتاب أخبار أصبهان أنبأنا عبداللّه بن إبراهيم المقبري حدثنا عمرو بن مسلم بن الزبير حدثنا إبراهيم ابن حبان بن حنظلة بن سويد عن علقمة بن سعد بن معاذ حدثني أبي عن أبيه عن جده مرفوعاً استغنموا طعامكم بالملح فوالذي نفسي بيده أنه ليرد ثلاثاً وسبعين نوعاً من البلاء أو قال من الداء وقال البهيقي في الشعب أنبانا أبو عبداللّه الحافظ حدثنا أبو العباس محمد بن يعقوب حدثنا الحسن بن علي بن عفان حدثنا زيد بن الحباب حدثنا عيسى بن الأشعث عن جوبير عن الضحاك عن النزال بن سيرة عن علي قال من ابتدأ غداءه بالملح أذهب اللّه عنه سبعين نوعاً من البلاء واللّه أعلم وبالإسناد الماضي عن علي مرفوعاً عليكم بالعدس فإنه مبارك وإنه يرق القلب ويكثر الدمعة إنه قد بارك فيه سبعون نبياً ، موضوع: آفته عبداللَّه أو أبوه كما ذكر. أنبأنا ابن خيرورة أنبانا أحمد بن علي الحافظ أنبأنا أبو سعد أحمد بن محمد الماليني أنبأنا منصور بن العباس بن

See file 22 under كتاب الأطعمة
http://www.almeshkat.net/books/open.php?cat=29&book=514

Not entirely sure to what Suyuti refers.

**leoto5Fm** · 08-18-2011, 02:53 AM

The hadith mentioned by Bayhaqi in shu'b al-iman:

5952 - أخبرنا أبو عبد الله الحافظ ثنا أبو العباس محمد بن يعقوب ثنا الحسن بن علي بن عفان ثنا زيد بن الحباب ثنا عيسى بن الأشعث عن جويبر عن الضحاك عن النزال بن سبرة عن علي أنه قال من ابتدأ غداءه بالملح أذهب عنه سبعين نوعا من البلاء وذكر الحديث قد أخرجناه بطوله في مناقب أمير المؤمنين علي رضي الله عنه

**leoto5Fm** · 08-18-2011, 04:24 AM

This is what Suyuti said in al-laali which was also cited by Tahir Patni:

. (أخبرنا) هبة اللّه بن أحمد الحريري أنبأنا إبراهيم بن عمر البرمكي حدثنا أبو بكر بن نجيب حدثنا القاسم عبداللّه بن أحمد بن عامر حدثني أبي حدثني علي بن موسى الرضا حدثني أبي موسى حدثني أبي جعفر حدثني أبي محمد ابن علي حدثني أبي علي بن الحسين حدثني أبي الحسن بن علي حدثني أبي علي ابن أبي طالب مرفوعاً ياعلي عليك بالملح فإنه شفاء من سبعين داء الجذام والبرص والجنون: لا يصح والمتهم عبداللّه بن حمد بن عامر أو أبوه فإنهما يرويان نسخة عن أهل البيت كلها باطلة. (قلت) قال أبو عبداللّه بن مندة في كتاب أخبار أصبهان أنبأنا عبداللّه بن إبراهيم المقبري حدثنا عمرو بن مسلم بن الزبير حدثنا إبراهيم ابن حبان بن حنظلة بن سويد عن علقمة بن سعد بن معاذ حدثني أبي عن أبيه عن جده مرفوعاً استغنموا طعامكم بالملح فوالذي نفسي بيده أنه ليرد ثلاثاً وسبعين نوعاً من البلاء أو قال من الداء وقال البهيقي في الشعب أنبانا أبو عبداللّه الحافظ حدثنا أبو العباس محمد بن يعقوب حدثنا الحسن بن علي بن عفان حدثنا زيد بن الحباب حدثنا عيسى بن الأشعث عن جوبير عن الضحاك عن النزال بن سيرة عن علي قال من ابتدأ غداءه بالملح أذهب اللّه عنه سبعين نوعاً من البلاء واللّه أعلم وبالإسناد الماضي عن علي مرفوعاً عليكم بالعدس فإنه مبارك وإنه يرق القلب ويكثر الدمعة إنه قد بارك فيه سبعون نبياً ، موضوع: آفته عبداللَّه أو أبوه كما ذكر. أنبأنا ابن خيرورة أنبانا أحمد بن علي الحافظ أنبأنا أبو سعد أحمد بن محمد الماليني أنبأنا منصور بن العباس بن

See file 22 under كتاب الأطعمة
http://www.almeshkat.net/books/open.php?cat=29&book=514

Not entirely sure to what Suyuti refers.

See here the original publication in pdf: http://www.waqfeya.com/book.php?bid=3898

In 2/212 the hadith is mentioned.

**paralelogram** · 08-25-2011, 05:49 PM

What does يرويان عن أهل البيت نسخة كلها باطلة mean?

Is it ' they narrate by means of transcibing word for word from Ahlul Bait, All of which is False

03-02-2009, 08:55 PM	#21
diplmixxxx Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 446 Senior Member	todays salt is not salt and todays milk is not milk go for the natural sea crystals..more expensive and try goats milk its sunnah to find natural food too and to be healthy eat according to needs etc sunnahs are many some are easy some not so I love Sunnahs!! Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

03-02-2009, 09:18 PM	#22
BuyCheapest Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 625 Senior Member	i heard from an american brother ( brother as in 'yo ma brotha') the sunnah, the better! get it? the sooner the better get it?? you dont never mind Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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03-02-2009, 09:45 PM	#23
wbondarmunw Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 422 Senior Member	assalamo alikum guess who anyway, i was actually laughed at and ridiculed in tabligh when doing muzakhirah, i said it was a sunnah. the guy who laughed at me was a purana sathi, although he has gone very wayward in recent times. according to him this is not a sunnah and was advice of a saint. i apologise if i was mis-informed but judging by the previous thread about the salt tasting many others were misinformed as well, some saying it is a sunnah and some saying it isnt. inshallah we will get to the bottom of this. as a side note this actually illustrates the dire need to be taught by scholars and not laymen because laymen will always err on the half baked knowledge we possess. Not all the time. What about when scholars themselves differ,which they do,on many many many issues. so who one has confidence in will narrate from them. dosent make the opposing view's 'wrong'. Some scholars might indeed say tasting salt before before food is not sunnah. and they might indeed have their proofs. Dont we find this in the various views of the four schools. each school has its own criteria and methodology which differs from the other. does not make one 'superior' or more 'right' than another. Thats why,in my muzakira's, I always generalise, so i would say we should eat accoring to the sunnah way, drink according to the sunnah etc,but not mention specifics. So then each person, goes to the scholars/books they have confidence and learns these sunnahs. Some sunnahs are of course well known so mentioning them is fine, but my rule is, if you are unsure, don't say it. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

03-02-2009, 09:58 PM	#24
BuyCheapest Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 625 Senior Member	Not all the time. What about when scholars themselves differ,which they do,on many many many issues. so who one has confidence in will narrate from them. dosent make the opposing view's 'wrong'. Some scholars might indeed say tasting salt before before food is not sunnah. and they might indeed have their proofs. Dont we find this in the various views of the four schools. each school has its own criteria and methodology which differs from the other. does not make one 'superior' or more 'right' than another. Thats why,in my muzakira's, I always generalise, so i would say we should eat accoring to the sunnah way, drink according to the sunnah etc,but not mention specifics. So then each person, goes to the scholars/books they have confidence and learns these sunnahs. Some sunnahs are of course well known so mentioning them is fine, but my rule is, if you are unsure, don't say it. true. i would just like to see the evidence for myself though. i know you posted something but i cant understand the arabic. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

03-02-2009, 10:08 PM	#25
wbondarmunw Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 422 Senior Member	true. i would just like to see the evidence for myself though. i know you posted something but i cant understand the arabic. Well someone loosely translated it for me but I cant remember it now. Come on people, can somebody please translate the Arabic into English which is in the original link in the first post.please? I hope people can now understand some of the reasons why various fiqh issues are not part of the standard in TJ. But it is highly encouraged,nay imperative, that one learns that knowledge which one needs on a day to day basis from authentic scholars and books. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

03-02-2009, 10:32 PM	#26
leoto5Fm Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 434 Senior Member	In the Arabic quotes only the statements of the jurists are mentioned, but not one single Hadith about taking salt. The following classical sources are mentioned describing it as a sunnah: Al-Muhit, Al-Bahr al-Ra'iq, Hashiya ibn Abidin, Fatawa Hindiyya. Also, in these quotes it is mentioned that starting and ending with salt is both sunnah. And in the end, 2 Urdu Fatawa are mentioned without any quotes: Fatawa Mahmoodiyya (by Mufti Mahmood al-Hasan Gangohi) and Imdad al-Fatawa (by Mawlana Ashraf Ali). Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

03-05-2009, 04:40 AM	#27
fd8IIys2 Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 398 Senior Member	Some people take salt before and after every meal religiously. Is it a Sunnah to have some salt before and/or after meals? Is there any reference in the life of Rasulullah Sallallahu Alyhi wa sallam or the Sahaba that this was done? Question # q-14372236 Date Posted:04/03/2009 In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful, Various classical jurists (fuqaha) of the Hanafi School mention in their respective works that it is from the general Sunna and recommended acts to commence and conclude one’s meal with salt, and that there are numerous medical benefits in doing so. The renowned Hanafi jurist, Imam Ibn Abidin (Allah have mercy on him) states: “It is from the Sunna to commence and conclude one’s meals with salt, rather in doing so; there is cure from seventy illnesses.” (Radd al-Muhtar ala ‘l-Durr al-Mukhtar 6/340. The same, more or less, has been mentioned in Al-Muhit al-Burhani 5/204, Al-Bahr al-Ra’iq 8/209 and Al-Fatawa al-Hindiyya 5/337. Imam Abu Hamid al-Ghazali also relates the same in his famous Ihya Uloom al-Din). Hakim al-Umma Mawlana Ashraf Ali Thanawi (Allah have mercy on him) explains in his brilliant Fatawa-collection titled ‘Imdad al-Fatawa’ that although there is no clear Hadith of the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) establishing this practice, and that the report attributed to him (Allah bless him & give him peace): “O Ali, commence and conclude your meal with salt, since salt is a cure for seventy illnesses such as insanity, leprosy, stomach pain and tooth ache” is deemed fabricated (mawdhu’) by many Hadith scholars, the act of commencing and concluding one’s meal with salt can not be considered totally baseless due to two reasons: Firstly, Imam Bayhaqi relates in his Shu’ab al-Iman that Sayyiduna Ali (Allah be pleased with him) said, “Whosoever commences his meal with salt, Allah will eliminate seventy types of illnesses from him.” Imam Ghazali (Allah have mercy on him) also records this report of Sayyiduna Ali in his Ihya Uloom al-Din, and the commentator of the Ihya, Allama Murtadha al-Zabidi after providing reference to Imam Bayhaqi’s Shu’ab al-Iman does not judge the report to be fabricated. As such, this Mawquf report (a report traced back to a Companion of the Messenger of Allah, and not necessarily a saying of the Messenger of Allah himself) indicates some basis for this practice. Secondly, there is a sound Hadith recorded by Imam Ibn Majah, Imam Tabarani and others from Sayyiduna Anas ibn Malik (Allah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said, “The best of your curries is salt.” (Sunan Ibn Majah, no: 3315) The term used in the Hadith to describe the good nature of salt is “Sayyid (leader)” and “leadership” requires it being at the beginning and end of one’s meal. Mawlana Thanawi further states that this could be the possible origin of commencing and concluding one’s meal with salt. However, he states, this practice should not be taken as a categorical religiously-established ruling, but rather, a desired course of action. (See: Imdad al-Fatawa 4/111-113) So, in conclusion, one should not consider commencing and concluding one’s meal with salt to be firmly established through the Sunna, and as such, avoid placing exaggerated emphasis on it. At the same time, it should not be considered a totally baseless act having no origin whatsoever. It would be wrong to insist on taking salt before and after every meal, and likewise, it would be wrong to condemn someone who chose to do so. If salt is readily available on the table, one may commence and conclude the meal with it based on the fact that classical Hanafi jurists consider it a commendable act. However, if salt is not present, one should not go out of one’s way in seeking and demanding it. This is the middle way, Insha Allah, and as always, the best of ways is the middle way. And Allah knows best Muhammad ibn Adam Darul Iftaa Leicester , UK Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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08-17-2011, 03:09 AM	#28
leoto5Fm Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 434 Senior Member	Can anyone find the hukm of the scholars regarding this athar: Firstly, Imam Bayhaqi relates in his Shu’ab al-Iman that Sayyiduna Ali (Allah be pleased with him) said, “Whosoever commences his meal with salt, Allah will eliminate seventy types of illnesses from him.” Imam Ghazali (Allah have mercy on him) also records this report of Sayyiduna Ali in his Ihya Uloom al-Din, and the commentator of the Ihya, Allama Murtadha al-Zabidi after providing reference to Imam Bayhaqi’s Shu’ab al-Iman does not judge the report to be fabricated. As such, this Mawquf report (a report traced back to a Companion of the Messenger of Allah, and not necessarily a saying of the Messenger of Allah himself) indicates some basis for this practice. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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08-17-2011, 04:03 AM	#29
leoto5Fm Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 434 Senior Member	Apparently Mawlana Muhammad Tahir Patni (or Fattani as the Arabs call him) mentioned the mawquf hadith narrated by Sayyiduna Ali in tadhkirat al-mawdu'at: وكذلك حكم السيوطي عليه بالوضع في اللآلئ المصنوعة (2/179). وقال الفتني في تذكرة الموضوعات : "في اللآلئ " يا علي عليك بالملح فإنه شفاء من سبعين داء الجذام والبرص والجنون " لا يصح فيه عبد الله بن أحمد بن عامر وهو وأبوه يرويان عن أهل البيت نسخة كلها باطلة : قلت أخرج ابن منده عن معاذ بلفظ " استغنموا طعامكم بالملح فوالذي نفسي بيده أنه ليرد ثلاثا وسبعين نوعا من البلاء أو قال من الداء " والبيهقي عن علي بطريق آخر " من ابتدأ غداءه بالملح أذهب الله عنه سبعين نوعا من البلاء "." اهـ http://shamela.ws/index.php/book/12738 So it would be a fabrication too? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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08-17-2011, 05:27 AM	#30
zCLadw3R Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 553 Senior Member	Can anyone find the hukm of the scholars regarding this athar: Have you checked al-Iraqi's takhrij of Ghazali's Ihya ? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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08-17-2011, 01:45 PM	#31
paralelogram Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 524 Senior Member	Have you checked al-Iraqi's takhrij of Ghazali's Ihya ? My grand dad and I were debating this issue on Saturday at the iftaar table. He was adamant that it was a confirmed/established practice of the Holy prophet of Islam, May peace and Blessings be upon him. I said ‘ I don’t think soooo! ‘ i told him I’ll do my own ‘ ba’hth ‘ on this issue,, so I’ve come to SF and found this excellent thread (so much for my ba’hth ) I’d also like to see some tahqeeq on all the quoutes attributed to the various ulama in the Fataawa presented above. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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08-18-2011, 02:12 AM	#32
leoto5Fm Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 434 Senior Member	Have you checked al-Iraqi's takhrij of Ghazali's Ihya ? Yes, but he does not comment on it. See the ihya p. 19, volume 2 downloadable on waqfeya.com. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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08-18-2011, 02:31 AM	#33
leoto5Fm Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 434 Senior Member	This is what Suyuti said in al-laali which was also cited by Tahir Patni: . (أخبرنا) هبة اللّه بن أحمد الحريري أنبأنا إبراهيم بن عمر البرمكي حدثنا أبو بكر بن نجيب حدثنا القاسم عبداللّه بن أحمد بن عامر حدثني أبي حدثني علي بن موسى الرضا حدثني أبي موسى حدثني أبي جعفر حدثني أبي محمد ابن علي حدثني أبي علي بن الحسين حدثني أبي الحسن بن علي حدثني أبي علي ابن أبي طالب مرفوعاً ياعلي عليك بالملح فإنه شفاء من سبعين داء الجذام والبرص والجنون: لا يصح والمتهم عبداللّه بن حمد بن عامر أو أبوه فإنهما يرويان نسخة عن أهل البيت كلها باطلة. (قلت) قال أبو عبداللّه بن مندة في كتاب أخبار أصبهان أنبأنا عبداللّه بن إبراهيم المقبري حدثنا عمرو بن مسلم بن الزبير حدثنا إبراهيم ابن حبان بن حنظلة بن سويد عن علقمة بن سعد بن معاذ حدثني أبي عن أبيه عن جده مرفوعاً استغنموا طعامكم بالملح فوالذي نفسي بيده أنه ليرد ثلاثاً وسبعين نوعاً من البلاء أو قال من الداء وقال البهيقي في الشعب أنبانا أبو عبداللّه الحافظ حدثنا أبو العباس محمد بن يعقوب حدثنا الحسن بن علي بن عفان حدثنا زيد بن الحباب حدثنا عيسى بن الأشعث عن جوبير عن الضحاك عن النزال بن سيرة عن علي قال من ابتدأ غداءه بالملح أذهب اللّه عنه سبعين نوعاً من البلاء واللّه أعلم وبالإسناد الماضي عن علي مرفوعاً عليكم بالعدس فإنه مبارك وإنه يرق القلب ويكثر الدمعة إنه قد بارك فيه سبعون نبياً ، موضوع: آفته عبداللَّه أو أبوه كما ذكر. أنبأنا ابن خيرورة أنبانا أحمد بن علي الحافظ أنبأنا أبو سعد أحمد بن محمد الماليني أنبأنا منصور بن العباس بن See file 22 under كتاب الأطعمة http://www.almeshkat.net/books/open.php?cat=29&book=514 Not entirely sure to what Suyuti refers. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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08-18-2011, 02:53 AM	#34
leoto5Fm Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 434 Senior Member	The hadith mentioned by Bayhaqi in shu'b al-iman: 5952 - أخبرنا أبو عبد الله الحافظ ثنا أبو العباس محمد بن يعقوب ثنا الحسن بن علي بن عفان ثنا زيد بن الحباب ثنا عيسى بن الأشعث عن جويبر عن الضحاك عن النزال بن سبرة عن علي أنه قال من ابتدأ غداءه بالملح أذهب عنه سبعين نوعا من البلاء وذكر الحديث قد أخرجناه بطوله في مناقب أمير المؤمنين علي رضي الله عنه Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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08-18-2011, 04:24 AM	#35
leoto5Fm Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 434 Senior Member	This is what Suyuti said in al-laali which was also cited by Tahir Patni: . (أخبرنا) هبة اللّه بن أحمد الحريري أنبأنا إبراهيم بن عمر البرمكي حدثنا أبو بكر بن نجيب حدثنا القاسم عبداللّه بن أحمد بن عامر حدثني أبي حدثني علي بن موسى الرضا حدثني أبي موسى حدثني أبي جعفر حدثني أبي محمد ابن علي حدثني أبي علي بن الحسين حدثني أبي الحسن بن علي حدثني أبي علي ابن أبي طالب مرفوعاً ياعلي عليك بالملح فإنه شفاء من سبعين داء الجذام والبرص والجنون: لا يصح والمتهم عبداللّه بن حمد بن عامر أو أبوه فإنهما يرويان نسخة عن أهل البيت كلها باطلة. (قلت) قال أبو عبداللّه بن مندة في كتاب أخبار أصبهان أنبأنا عبداللّه بن إبراهيم المقبري حدثنا عمرو بن مسلم بن الزبير حدثنا إبراهيم ابن حبان بن حنظلة بن سويد عن علقمة بن سعد بن معاذ حدثني أبي عن أبيه عن جده مرفوعاً استغنموا طعامكم بالملح فوالذي نفسي بيده أنه ليرد ثلاثاً وسبعين نوعاً من البلاء أو قال من الداء وقال البهيقي في الشعب أنبانا أبو عبداللّه الحافظ حدثنا أبو العباس محمد بن يعقوب حدثنا الحسن بن علي بن عفان حدثنا زيد بن الحباب حدثنا عيسى بن الأشعث عن جوبير عن الضحاك عن النزال بن سيرة عن علي قال من ابتدأ غداءه بالملح أذهب اللّه عنه سبعين نوعاً من البلاء واللّه أعلم وبالإسناد الماضي عن علي مرفوعاً عليكم بالعدس فإنه مبارك وإنه يرق القلب ويكثر الدمعة إنه قد بارك فيه سبعون نبياً ، موضوع: آفته عبداللَّه أو أبوه كما ذكر. أنبأنا ابن خيرورة أنبانا أحمد بن علي الحافظ أنبأنا أبو سعد أحمد بن محمد الماليني أنبأنا منصور بن العباس بن See file 22 under كتاب الأطعمة http://www.almeshkat.net/books/open.php?cat=29&book=514 Not entirely sure to what Suyuti refers. See here the original publication in pdf: http://www.waqfeya.com/book.php?bid=3898 In 2/212 the hadith is mentioned. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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08-25-2011, 05:49 PM	#36
paralelogram Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 524 Senior Member	What does يرويان عن أهل البيت نسخة كلها باطلة mean? Is it ' they narrate by means of transcibing word for word from Ahlul Bait, All of which is False Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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