[PymnImmen]

Asalaamualaykum,

I have a question and I have to make a final decision. In this month of Ramadaan please read, and leave a comment. I would be grateful if you can answer with all honesty, male or female. Yes it is long but please do give it a read. I am confused as to pursue a career in Dentistry or Medicine. After reading this you may turn away and may not want to answer, but PLEASE I really am in need of your help! My interest in medicine is greater than my interest in dentistry. However, when it comes to making a decision I feel that there is more to consider than just where one's interest lye. As a Muslim woman I do have other priorities, and please note I have not had an entirely Islamic upbringing (meaning I belong from the typical "moderate" Pakistani family) and have a long way to go down the road of Islamic knowledge.

I reside in the U.K and will pursue my Medical/Dental education and career in the U.K as well. I feel being a female I have to obviously look after a family as well in the future insha'Allah. Also I want to pursue Islamic education e.g. do an Alimah course, learn Arabic language...! You probably get the picture Now the problem I am facing is whether I can pursue these things alongside looking after a family, with a career or not. Yes I can probably study medicine with aalimah course, but not PRACTICE medicine alongside this and with a family. The practice of medicine in the initial years is very very demanding: night shifts, long, irregular hours- I fear that this will be a impractical profession for a women. However, on the other side of the picture I will be helping mankind and that is highly regarded in Islam and I will be pleasing Allah as well, and it is also sadaka jaariya.

I feel that Dentistry is a good option because it is a manageable career with family and I will be working regular hours and it is also flexible, even in your early stages. So I can learn, and preach Islam, and give time to children/ family insha'Allah. But, I feel that as a dentist I am not helping mankind as such and that really wont be regarded as sadaka jaariyah.

What is your view, your experiences! I am very young not even an undergraduate and married; and university and married life is something that I am in essence unaware of as I have obviously not experienced it yet. So, male female, married, un-married, please I would be grateful for your advice/ opinion in the holy month of Ramadaan please help me, Jazak'Allah, May Allah SWT bless you all, Ameen.

Wa'alaykumasalaam

[Adimos]

Asalaamualaykum,

I have a question and I have to make a final decision. In this month of Ramadaan please read, and leave a comment. I would be grateful if you can answer with all honesty, male or female. Yes it is long but please do give it a read. I am confused as to pursue a career in Dentistry or Medicine. After reading this you may turn away and may not want to answer, but PLEASE I really am in need of your help! My interest in medicine is greater than my interest in dentistry. However, when it comes to making a decision I feel that there is more to consider than just where one's interest lye. As a Muslim woman I do have other priorities, and please note I have not had an entirely Islamic upbringing (meaning I belong from the typical "moderate" Pakistani family) and have a long way to go down the road of Islamic knowledge.

I reside in the U.K and will pursue my Medical/Dental education and career in the U.K as well. I feel being a female I have to obviously look after a family as well in the future insha'Allah. Also I want to pursue Islamic education e.g. do an Alimah course, learn Arabic language...! You probably get the picture Now the problem I am facing is whether I can pursue these things alongside looking after a family, with a career or not. Yes I can probably study medicine with aalimah course, but not PRACTICE medicine alongside this and with a family. The practice of medicine in the initial years is very very demanding: night shifts, long, irregular hours- I fear that this will be a impractical profession for a women. However, on the other side of the picture I will be helping mankind and that is highly regarded in Islam and I will be pleasing Allah as well, and it is also sadaka jaariya.

I feel that Dentistry is a good option because it is a manageable career with family and I will be working regular hours and it is also flexible, even in your early stages. So I can learn, and preach Islam, and give time to children/ family insha'Allah. But, I feel that as a dentist I am not helping mankind as such and that really wont be regarded as sadaka jaariyah.

What is your view, your experiences! I am very young not even an undergraduate and married; and university and married life is something that I am in essence unaware of as I have obviously not experienced it yet. So, male female, married, un-married, please I would be grateful for your advice/ opinion in the holy month of Ramadaan please help me, Jazak'Allah, May Allah SWT bless you all, Ameen.

Wa'alaykumasalaam

wassalaam. sister i dont know much but i cant see how you expect to receive reward from ALLAH by going agianst the commands of ALLAH. helping humanes in need is a very rewarding act, however it is not permissable from an islamic point of view for a muslimah to attend a university where there is intermingling of sexes and lots of other types of haraam things taking place, even if you wear a niqab its basically impossible to completely observe the rules of hijaab... also i would think you will recieve a greater thawaab-e-jaariyyah by just cooking a pot of food daily and distributing to the poor! (what i mean is that you dont have to have a medical career to benefit the creation) lol. i dont know if i'm making sense to you... but why dont you just take up a course from home, or go to a madressah and do hifz/aalimah course or something? you know after all islamic knowledge studied within the confines of the shariah is the only thing that will benefit you in the grave and in the hereafter. i hopr you reach the right decision, a decision that will please ALLAH.

[PymnImmen]

Asalaamualykum,

Sister, I understand where you are coming from, Jazak'Allah for your response Thank you. I would like to mention two things;
1) I really wanted to go to umm-ul-qura university (makkah), and as I have mentioned I dont have a practicing family (apart from my mother), therefore, I have no mehram that is willing to go with me not even for a two year course. I have enrolled on a arabic language course which i will be starting very soon insha'Allah.

2) I believe that its not only haraam for a muslimah but also for a muslim male to go to a mixed education institute or university, I dont feel that this should only apply to the female; what is wrong is wrong in Allah eyes whether male or female. However, being settled in London for a long time, hijrah or moving to an arab/islamic country is also very expensive and difficult to do and making such decisions requires time and finance. I do want to educate and get a degree at least. I do have to earn and be a little independent for certain reasons. I mean to say that if one is married and somthing nauthubillah goes wrong i.e. husband passes away and one has children, in order to work one requires an education; so where would one stand then.

[inilbowly]

Asalamwalaikum,

I have quite a few relatives in the medical field so this is based on their experience. The early years certainly are hard and your assessment on this is very correct. One works long irregular hours and it is very hard indeed to maintain one's personal life. There is a reason why so many doctors marry doctors after all. On the plus side, if one studies medicine to HELP people, it is incredibly rewarding. We have to be very careful of our intentions. I know many doctors who work just for the money. In that case there is no benefit from doing that compared with any other profession. However with the right intentions, you will always find ways to help people.

Dentistry has much more regular hours. It's a straight forward job unless you go into dental surgery, emergency dentistry etc. It is much more suitable for having a healthy married life.

And yes, if free mixing is haram, then it is also for muslim men completely. So the question arises, and i think this is a personal question. Does the benefit outweigh the potential harm? I will not lie to you, I have seen people go very badly astray at university. So yes it is definitely a possibility. I myself am going to university in September. Every salat I do, I am doing a dua asking Allah swt to go to university to help muslims with the qualifications I gain. I forget which brother it was now (possibly Nouman Ali Khan), but i remember a very striking point made.
The scholar said that too often we ask, 'what can islam do for me, what can I do for Allah swt'. Too often we forget, What does ALLAH want me to do?'

[ethigSmimbine]

walaikom assalam

sister, If you know and trust your abilities that you will be able to give proper time to your family, yourself and alongside you will not neglect the due rites of Allah over you then go ahead and continue your study.
if you get any good proposal you should accept and not 'delay' coz of your education.

we muslims really need educated people, male/ female we are at mercy of Kuffar their, inventions, and many other things..there are many sisters who manage their married life and also their job.and if you are doing that for intention purely for Allah then what to be worried about?

but this is indeed a big decision and pains taking task, as you will try to give the appropriate time to all whom you are supposed to, and also to maintain pardah, after you take start with your job.
if you think you will be able to carry em all with you in best possible way then you should keep trust in Allah and I dont think so that education will harm you or your life if you are sincere with Allah and so with the duties upon you.

and Allah knows best.

Edit: sister I said you shouldn't quit the idea of dentistry ONLY when you be willing to learn about Islam and care for your Pardah alongside. thts why I said It would be a pains taking task for you to manage, but not Impossible.
our generation needs Ulmaa who holds wordly degrees with them also...
so, I never meant you to quit deeni Ilam at all ok, Now its upto you If you can carry both of them at best then go ahead and If you will only do 'some' courses instead of becoming an alimah then you should better quit your dentistry aim. You shouldn't take for granted your religion.

[enencephoth]

My mother is a pediatrician, and initially I wanted to do medicine. However, it was my mother who wanted me to do dentistry, MUCH better way of life as you have much more time to your family. I have no clue how a woman can maintain a family while going through residency (somehow my mother did it, with the help of grandparents and of course Allah (swt)) but it was extremely difficult. She would say that she would stay up all night to study, make her rounds at the hospital and when she came home she cooked/cleaned/take care of baby. Furthermore, men looking to marry may view a woman who studying to become doctors as less desirable for this reason, that she will have to put her work first in many situations. Alhamdulillah my mother has her own practice and can set her own hours, but this tradition is quickly becoming very rare as costs go up and only hospitals can support the burden. If I were to advise a woman, I would say dentistry, but Allah knows best, we also need woman doctors.

Edit: I had the same idea as well, that dentistry does not have the same tangible benefits to society that medicine does. However, once you have severe tooth ache and only your dentist solves the problem, you'll understand how much benefit dentists can be to their patients. Remember as well that it is not the action that is so great, it is the intention behind it that Allah (swt) loves. Removing a branch from the street or saving someones life may have the same reward from Allah (swt) depending on intention, so don't worry about which field gets more reward, that lies with your intention.

[myhackingtosh_ws]

Best would be to become and 'Aalimah,

And if you want to serve humanity apart from your ilm also then you can become a Hakeem (herbal specialist)

Contact the Aalimah here, she will guide you much better practically.

http://zainabcenter.org/content/

Brief Introduction of the Respected Aapa who teaches there:

Ustadha Humera Ahmad has been a devout student of sacred knowledge from traditional scholars and mashaikh for over a decade. In addition to completing the Aalimah course, she also holds Masters in Economics, Islamic Studies and Arabic.

Ustadha Humera Ahmad also travels extensively around the world including North America in an effort to induce a positive Islamic change in the lives of Muslim women. Alhamdulillah, her non-political and non-sectarian spiritual lectures and seminars have attracted thousands of students and have helped them grow in their deen and becoming closer to Allah [SWT]. She is the principal of Zainab Center in New York and conducts classes on Quranic Tajweed, Quranic Tafseer, Hadith, Fiqh (Jurisprudence), Arabic grammar and conjugation as well as Islamic conduct and mannerism. These classes are offered to women, girls and kids and are conducted in English and Urdu via free conference call services.

[TheLucyLee]

"...You should never think of ever going back to university. You will know
better than us of all the evils and un-Islamic misdeeds which take
place at a university, especially a university where both males and
females study.

Don’t succumb to the demands of family members in an issue which is
haraam in terms if Allah’s Law. Obedience to anyone, be they
parents, is not permissible in any act which involves disobedience to
Allah Ta’ala.

May Allah Ta’ala keep you firm on the Deen and may He guide and protect you.

Was-salaam

A.S. Desai

For

Mujlisul Ulama of S.A."

[TheLucyLee]

I believe there are medical schools for females in Pakistan. Why don't you look into that? Also, you'd be pleasing Allah more if you took up an Islamic course, passing Islamic knowledge to your children is the BEST thing you can do for them. TRUST ME! Problem with most Muslim families living in the west is, they'll introduce their children to a mixed culture of Islam, the West and their respective country of origin (in your case, Pakistan I believe). The child as a result grows up confused, once they're in their teen years, the parents decide to wake up and start slapping restrictions on them, and telling them, OH you should pray! why didnt you pray! Why don't you read the quraan, why don't you wear full clothes, why this why that, don't talk to boys! Problem is, they NEVER trained them with proper Islamic knowledge, children copy their parents, and the parents usually arent practising Muslims themselves. So my advise would be, become an Alimah. You'll be doing a very good job, passing on knowledge of Islam is also sadaqa e jariah. Don't deceive yourself that if you observe full hijab and study in a uk university, you'll be fine. At the end of the day, we have to ascertain what WE want, and what we SHOULD do. If you're still adamant about medicine, then I suggest you enroll in a women's college for medicine.

[onlyfun_biziness]

walaykum asalaam

one thing you really need to take into consideration about doing a medical degree and practising medicine in the UK is that they have sepecific rules which do not work for a Muslimah, one is that you will need to to treat male patients, you don't get a say in that
secondly, you must wear their uniforms which are not covering

they have a policy of short sleeves because apparently they believe long sleeves spread diseases and they don't compromise on this issue so you will be wearing short sleeves, many muslimahs left their medical career and switched to things like teaching once they enforced this rule upon them

[Adimos]

Asalaamualykum,

Sister, I understand where you are coming from, Jazak'Allah for your response Thank you. I would like to mention two things;
1) I really wanted to go to umm-ul-qura university (makkah), and as I have mentioned I dont have a practicing family (apart from my mother), therefore, I have no mehram that is willing to go with me not even for a two year course. I have enrolled on a arabic language course which i will be starting very soon insha'Allah.

2) I believe that its not only haraam for a muslimah but also for a muslim male to go to a mixed education institute or university, I dont feel that this should only apply to the female; what is wrong is wrong in Allah eyes whether male or female. However, being settled in London for a long time, hijrah or moving to an arab/islamic country is also very expensive and difficult to do and making such decisions requires time and finance. I do want to educate and get a degree at least. I do have to earn and be a little independent for certain reasons. I mean to say that if one is married and somthing nauthubillah goes wrong i.e. husband passes away and one has children, in order to work one requires an education; so where would one stand then.

sis you right it is definitely, absolutely, profoundly haraam for a muslim male to intermingle with women, i did'nt mean its fine... but just because you a female and i was replying to your question i used the word "muslimah". i do understand that you want to be educated, but i dont understand why cant you be educated from home? theres unisa, demelin etc etc that can give you proper, complete education and degrees. coz once you go into medicine you gotta mix with non-mahrams sum time or the other like at seminars and also when you complete you have to treat male patients. anyway its your decision in the end so i guess you just do what you feel is right.

[PymnImmen]

I myself am going to university in September.

Are you doing dentistry at university? Its just a general question, just out of curiosity hope you dont mind.

[NutChusty]

Go seek the competencies of a Scholars on varies rulings and then the guidance of a Sheikh throughout the lifetime of your working life including University, work, etc.

The problem as your have been made aware is not just University or working but the culture they surrounds regards to being anti - sunni. I use the word Sunni specifically because it provides more clarity on the culture you are faced with.

The example you give about long hours of work is not against Islam however it is not the Sunnah, does this make sense?

Many non-muslim if they apply methods and lessons from the Sunni would have a more fulfilling life. So it is the culture that is infectious and suffocating.

It is designed to squeeze the life out of you and then you have to answer to Allah for acts and crimes committed against his will.

[PymnImmen]

I also think that their are many doctors, and dentists but not many people who teach the Qur'an which is the ultimate cure. On the death bed with no medicine is working its Allah's word that will really help at that point .

[PymnImmen]

Jazak'Allah Khair may Allah SWT reward everybody who posted Ameen, Ameen, Ameen.

[NutChusty]

I also think that their are many doctors, and dentists but not many people who teach the Qur'an which is the ultimate cure. On the death bed with no medicine is working its Allah's word that will really help at that point .

i think you are stating the obvious here but that should not be a reasoning to undermine the profound contribution of medicine and the practice as a whole.

No doubt the Quran has a cure to many illnesses but it is not its purpose. The sunnah however is the key to a prosperous and healthy living a life free of diseases and illnesses.

Just thought I would add this clarity since many Great Scholars, pious kings, Kaliphs had many physicians around them

[PymnImmen]

So it is the culture that is infectious and suffocating.

It is designed to squeeze the life out of you and then you have to answer to Allah for acts and crimes committed against his will.

I 100% agree with you, I really like the way you explained this, masha'Allah. Doing medicine is a very noble profession, when I say I dont want to do it people say well Hazarat Aisha held knowledge of medicine. But the thing is look at medicine now a days, I think it just honestly defeats the purpose. My intention was already getting corrupted; I was seeking to do voluntary work with poor, needy children and in old homes not because I wanted to help them so that I please my Rabb, rather to satisfy the entry requirements of med school. The competition, the way the degree is set out is really ... incorrect (if I were to use a mild term)!

Unfortunately I find that in modern times although slogans of moderation are screamed from every corner, there is no moderation in our lives which are dominated by western culture; and I fond it strange that when it comes to careers be is any we always want the best and we will not let anything stand in the way, but when it comes to the practice of Islam/Deen we judge it it in terms of how moderate it is (in reality how much it allows us to follow our desires). Whatever happen to "I dedicate myself and my children in the way pf Allah SWT and the propagation of HIS deen and HIS Divine rule" a phrase not many tongues have uttered in these dark times, how unfortunate are we.

[inilbowly]

Are you doing dentistry at university? Its just a general question, just out of curiosity hope you dont mind.

Asalamwalaikum,

No I will be doing Project Management masters. Interestingly enough the local masjid is literally half a mile from my student hall only. Why is it so close? Because it was the students at the university who set it up alhumdullilah. To me that is a great blessing and all those who followed in their footsteps. I'm mentioning it specifically to indicate that they did good in their time there.

[inilbowly]

Go seek the competencies of a Scholars on varies rulings and then the guidance of a Sheikh throughout the lifetime of your working life including University, work, etc.

The problem as your have been made aware is not just University or working but the culture they surrounds regards to being anti - sunni. I use the word Sunni specifically because it provides more clarity on the culture you are faced with.

The example you give about long hours of work is not against Islam however it is not the Sunnah, does this make sense?

Many non-muslim if they apply methods and lessons from the Sunni would have a more fulfilling life. So it is the culture that is infectious and suffocating.

It is designed to squeeze the life out of you and then you have to answer to Allah for acts and crimes committed against his will.

Asalamwalaikum,

Based on my personal experience working in the NHS i will have to agree with this. We work 12 hour shifts, and I know doctors do similiar things. It makes it impossible for me in my current work environment to do Salat. Not only that I find it tremendously frustrating to not be in a state of wudhu. Having said that, for doctors this is a 'phase'. It is a sizeable chunk of one's youth, but one can progress into doing things which sit much more comfortably with practicing Islam. Again speaking personally, most of the doctors in my family are pillars of their community. They sit on masjid boards, they fundraise, they help construct new masajid, they donate generously, they network. I think we shouldn't underestimate that at all. As a whole in the UK specifically, we are underrepresented in the professional classes and out of the people in the professional classes, it is the doctors who stand out most as helping the Ummah in this country. It is shocking but unfortunately true that considering the economic power of muslim traders, in our masajid their contribution is outweighed by doctors. Anyway that is a side issue. Time for tarawi!

[fashikn]

Assalaamu'alaikum,

I have some experiences of this issue. I have just completed my undergraduate studies at a university in the UK and had a place held for clinical medicine there, a place which I have just declined, today.

After studying on the medical route for the past 3 years, I decided that I felt it would be too difficult to balance life as a practicing doctor and priorities with children and my ambitions for studying the deen. However, what everyone on the thread should realise is that the most important thing for us is not to throw around fatawa ourselves about whether going to university or not is haram, as there are differing opinions among scholars on the issue. I have consulted a number of eminent scholars from ahl al-sunnah wa al-jama'ah, both in the UK and abroad, on this topic, and the overarching opinion I heard was that studying medicine and studying the deen are both noble, and medical knowledge is second only to deeny knowledge as Imam al-Shafi'i has told us.

It is possible to go to university and maintain one's deen. MashaAllah I know of a number of very practicing students who are making great contributions to university Islamic societies, gaining a beneficial education and also studying the deen and developing their knowledge and practice of tasawwuf. It is difficult but it is not impossible, so people should not throw around opinions of university being haram in such a sweeping manner.

As for me, different scholars narrated to me different opinions, and although studying medicine would be a noble thing to do, as after all some women do need to work in fields for which there is a fard kifaya, such as in medicine and teaching, I decided that it was not for me. Mufti Kamaluddin Ahmed in particular is of the opinion that there are enough female doctors in the UK, not necessarily muslims but at least female, and with all of the difficulties of medical training here, having to abide by the dress code and having to treat male patients, these disadvantages outweigh the possible benefits of practicing medicine, especially as the ultimate focus for Muslim women should be raising their children. If there was a sister desperately keen to practice medicine, she could of course study medicine in a Muslim country and specialise in gynaecology or paediatrics and practice here, but again the time commitment would mean that to be able to do justice in raising one's kids, she would have to limit the number of children she would have, which for me was the biggest deterring factor in all of this.

secondly, you must wear their uniforms which are not covering

they have a policy of short sleeves because apparently they believe long sleeves spread diseases and they don't compromise on this issue so you will be wearing short sleeves, many muslimahs left their medical career and switched to things like teaching once they enforced this rule upon them

As an aside, Muslim women can make do with the uniform policies, such as getting hold of plastic disposable sleeves and wearing full surgical gowns in theatre, for example. I know a niqabi sister practicing medicine who, although not wearing niqab in hospital, is able to maintain her hijab and practice with haya. As I mentioned above, doing medicine is not impossible, and it is very noble, though in the current climate I wouldn't advise sisters to follow this route, particularly with the state of the ummah as it is, and the huge importance of raising our children to be strong muslims, on the deen who will be able to withstand the evils and fitnah of society here in the west.

InshaAllah I hope this has been of some benefit.

Wassalaam