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08-21-2011, 01:16 AM
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#1 |
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 General Salah questions!
AsalamAlykum
I had a few question regarding salah in the Hanafi school 1) I know its disliked to recite behind the imam, but let's say in Dhuhr or Asr prayer, in the 3rd and 4th rakah, and in maghrib in the 3rd rakah, We have to recite surah fatiha right? Or we don't even do that? 2) I heard something about reciting Surah Fatiha in congregation behind an Imam, he gives a pause between Surah fatiha and the following surah for the followers to recite their fatiha. 3) In hanafis, when does one say Salam when ending prayer? In KSA everybody says both their salams AFTER the imam has said both his salams, but in Canada, when the imam says one salam, the follower would say it, then when the imam says the second salam, he would do the second. If possible, can you please provide authentic evidences! JazakAllah! Salam |
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08-21-2011, 01:30 AM
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#2 |
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 1) I know its disliked to recite behind the imam, but let's say in Dhuhr or Asr prayer, in the 3rd and 4th rakah, and in maghrib in the 3rd rakah, We have to recite surah fatiha right? Or we don't even do that? Most Hanafi scholars say that you should not recite behind the imam in both the silent and loud rakats. But there are some Hanafi scholars who have also said its preferable to recite in the silent rakats as long as its done quietly so as to not disturb others around you. Follow which ever view you want. 2) I heard something about reciting Surah Fatiha in congregation behind an Imam, he gives a pause between Surah fatiha and the following surah for the followers to recite their fatiha. I believe that one of the views in another madhab is that one should recite in all rakats behind the imam, thats why the imam pauses after reading fatiha in the loud prayer to give people a chance to do so. Also heard they consider the pause to be sunnah. 3) In hanafis, when does one say Salam when ending prayer? In KSA everybody says both their salams AFTER the imam has said both his salams, but in Canada, when the imam says one salam, the follower would say it, then when the imam says the second salam, he would do the second. Havent read anything on this or been taught anything on this exactly, but the general practice in Hanafi masjids is the same as what you described in Canada. |
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08-21-2011, 02:29 AM
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#3 |
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JZK bro..
But I hope more people answer to these questions |
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08-21-2011, 05:59 AM
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#4 |
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AsalamAlykum We recite NO QURAN behind the Imam due to the hadith: حَدَّثَنَا شَرِيكٌ، وَجَرِيرٌ، عَنْ مُوسَى بْنِ أَبِي عَائِشَةَ، عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ شَدَّادٍ قَالَ: قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ: «مَنْ كَانَ لَهُ إِمَامٌ فَقِرَاءَتُهُ لَهُ قِرَاءَةٌ» Whoever has a Imam, the Imam's Qirat is sufficient for him. 2) I heard something about reciting Surah Fatiha in congregation behind an Imam, he gives a pause between Surah fatiha and the following surah for the followers to recite their fatiha. They pause to let the muqtadis read Surah Fatiha, but not allowed in Hanafi Madhab. 3) In hanafis, when does one say Salam when ending prayer? In KSA everybody says both their salams AFTER the imam has said both his salams, but in Canada, when the imam says one salam, the follower would say it, then when the imam says the second salam, he would do the second. Tomorrow insha'Allah. If possible, can you please provide authentic evidences! JazakAllah! Salam Hope it answers
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08-21-2011, 06:21 AM
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#5 |
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So basically in Jamaat we simply stand, and only recite the ruku, sajda and tashahhud? and, The hadith is in arabic, I don't really understand lol I find it wierd not reciting any Quran, specially in 3rd and 4th rakat :S lol |
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08-21-2011, 06:24 AM
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#6 |
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JZK I translated the Hadith. Whoever has a Imam, the Imam's Qirat is Qirat for him. |
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08-21-2011, 06:43 AM
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#7 |
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JZK  I believe Maulana Taliban has given the translation of Arabic: Whoever has a Imam, the Imam's Qirat is sufficient for him. As for your third question iv seen this amongst salafis, that they do both Tasleems after the Imam has done both of them, iv read the fatwas of Shaykh Bin Baaz and Shaykh Bin 'Uthaymeen and they favoured it, but they didn't bring any daleel forward only stating that it was more well-known and better. I tried looking for a fatwa from the hanafi sites for this but couldn't find anything, but whatever the case, the Imam is followed suit after his actions.
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08-21-2011, 07:54 AM
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#8 |
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ehh?!
so during duhr and asr you not say anything and simply stand there? and even on the last rakat for maghrib and last two rakats for isha? i dont recite no quran? |
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08-21-2011, 07:55 AM
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#9 |
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ehh?! |
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08-21-2011, 07:56 AM
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08-21-2011, 07:57 AM
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08-21-2011, 10:37 AM
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#12 |
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08-22-2011, 12:18 AM
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#13 |
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http://www.askimam.org/fatwa/fatwa.p...2f103b3facd29d #Rasulullah (Sall Allahu alaihi wa Aalihi wa Sallim) is reported to have said: "When you begin your congregational prayers, straighten your rows. Thereafter when the Imaam says the takbeer (i.e. when he says Allahu Akbar aloud) you must also say the takbeer. However, when he begins the recital of the Qur'an, you must remain silent. And when he recites walad daul leen then you should say Aameen". By performing your salaah in this manner Allah Ta'ala will love you." [Muslim; ch. on tashahhud] (A similar Hadith has been narrated by Abu Hurairah (radhiallahu anhu)-Imaam Muslim has attested to its authenticity). Aren't we supposed to say Ameen silently? And I would still like evidence for ending the prayer when the Imam says ASalamalikumwarahmatAllah JZK! |
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08-22-2011, 12:27 AM
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#14 |
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Amin is said silently.
I do remember reading somewhere, and perhaps others here can verify/correct this, that Imam al-A'zam Abu Hanifah favored following the imam very closely in actions, including the taslim, and I have read elsewhere that each of the two taslims are separate actions. I have also read that Imam Muhammad ibn al-Hasan preferred leaving a gap (don't know how much of a gap) between the actions of the imam and the muqtadi out of caution so that the muqtadi does not perform any action before the imam. insha Allah I'll try to find where I read this before. |
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08-22-2011, 01:21 AM
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#15 |
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Thanks brother, Just one question in the second link you provided I dont have much time but the highlighted part says to say "Ameen", nothing in that text says whether it is loudly or silently. Take this example: http://hadith.al-islam.com/Page.aspx...kID=24&PID=750 أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ قَالَ إِذَا قَالَ الْإِمَامُ غَيْرِ الْمَغْضُوبِ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلَا الضَّالِّينَ فَقُولُوا آمِينَ فَإِنَّهُ مَنْ وَافَقَ قَوْلُهُ قَوْلَ الْمَلَائِكَةِ غُفِرَ لَهُ مَا تَقَدَّمَ مِنْ ذَنْبِهِ Translation: "Rasulullah  said: When the Imam says: "Ghayril Maghdoobi 'Alayhim Wa Laa Dhaalleen" say: "Ameen." And if the saying of any one of you coincides with that of the angels, all his past sins will be forgiven."http://hadith.al-islam.com/Page.aspx...kID=24&PID=765 أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ قَالَ إِذَا قَالَ الْإِمَامُ سَمِعَ اللَّهُ لِمَنْ حَمِدَهُ فَقُولُوا اللَّهُمَّ رَبَّنَا لَكَ الْحَمْدُ فَإِنَّهُ مَنْ وَافَقَ قَوْلُهُ قَوْلَ الْمَلَائِكَةِ غُفِرَ لَهُ مَا تَقَدَّمَ مِنْ ذَنْبِهِ Translation: Rasulullah said: When the Imam says: "Sami' Allahu Liman Hamidah" you should say, "Allahumma Rabbana laka al-Hamd." And if the saying of any one of you coincides with that of the angels, all his past sins will be forgiven." As you can see from the latter hadith that it doesn't neccessarily mean that the first hadith is saying one should say Ameen loudly, otherwise no one says Rabbana Lakal Hamd loudly. Wallahu A'lam |
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08-22-2011, 02:12 AM
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#16 |
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One of my elder brother e-mailed my about this. Taken from Ibn Kathir Saying Amin It is recommended to say Amin after finishing the recitation of Al-Fatihah. Amin means, "O Allah! Accept our invocation.'' The evidence that saying Amin is recommended is contained in what Imams Ahmad, Abu Dawud and At-Tirmidhi recorded, that Wa'il bin Hujr said, "I heard the Messenger of Allah recite, ﴿غَيْرِ الْمَغْضُوبِ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلاَ الضَّآلِّينَ﴾ (Not (that) of those who earned Your anger, nor of those who went astray), and he said `Amin' extending it with his voice.'' Abu Dawud's narration added, "Raising his voice with it.'' At-Tirmidhi then commented that this Hadith is Hasan and was also narrated from `Ali and Ibn Mas`ud. Also, Abu Hurayrah narrated that whenever the Messenger of Allah would recite, ﴿غَيْرِ الْمَغْضُوبِ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلاَ الضَّآلِّينَ﴾ (Not (the way) of those who earned Your anger, nor of those who went astray), He would say Amin until those who were behind him in the first line could hear him. Abu Dawud and Ibn Majah recorded this Hadith with the addition, "Then the Masjid would shake because of (those behind the Prophet ) reciting Amin.'' Also, Ad-Daraqutni recorded this Hadith and commented that it is Hasan. Further, Bilal narrated that he said, "O Messenger of Allah! Do not finish saying Amin before I can join you.'' This was recorded by Abu Dawud. In addition, Abu Nasr Al-Qushayri narrated that Al-Hasan and Ja`far As-Sadiq stressed the `m' in Amin. Saying Amin is recommended for those who are not praying (when reciting Al-Fatihah) and is strongly recommended for those who are praying, whether alone or behind the Imam. The Two Sahihs recorded that the Messenger of Allah said, «إِذَا أَمَّنَ الْإِمَامُ فَأَمِّنُوا، فَإِنَّهُ مَنْ وَافَقَ تَأْمِينُهُ تَأْمِينَ الْمَلَائِكَةِ غُفِرَ لَهُ مَا تَقَدَّمَ مِنْ ذَنْبِهِ» (When the Imam says, ' Amin', then say, 'Amin', because whoever says, Amin' with the angels, his previous sins will be forgiven.) Muslim recorded that the Messenger of Allah said, «إِذَا قَالَ أَحَدُكُمْ فِي الصَّلَاةِ: آمِينَ، وَالْمَلَائِكَةُ فِي السَّمَاءِ: آمِينَ، فَوَافَقَتْ إِحْدَاهُمَا الْأُخْرَى غُفِرَ لَهُ مَا تَقَدَّمَ مِنْ ذَنْبِهِ» (When any of you says in the prayer, 'Amin ` and the angels in heaven say, `Amin', in unison, his previous sins will be forgiven.) It was said that the Hadith talks about both the angels and the Muslims saying Amin at the same time. The Hadith also refers to when the Amins said by the angels and the Muslims are equally sincere (thus bringing about forgiveness). Further, it is recorded in Sahih Muslim that Abu Musa related to the Prophet that he said, «إِذَا قَالَ يَعنِي الْإِمَامَ : وَلَا الضَّالِّينَ، فَقُولُوا: آمِينَ، يُجِبْكُمُ اللهُ» (When the Imam says, `Walad-dallin', say, `Amin' and Allah will answer your invocation.) In addition, At-Tirmidhi said that `Amin' means, "Do not disappoint our hope'', while the majority of scholars said that it means. "Answer our invocation.'' Also, in his Musnad, Imam Ahmad recorded that `A'ishah said that when the Jews were mentioned to him, the Messenger of Allah said, «إِنَّهُم لَنْ يَحْسُدُونَا عَلَى شَيْءٍ كَمَا يَحْسُدُونَا عَلَى الْجُمُعَةِ الَّتِي هَدَانَا اللهُ لَهَا وَضَلُّوا عَنْهَا، وَعَلَى الْقِبْلَةِ الَّتِي هَدَانَا اللهُ لَهَا وَضَلُّوا عَنْهَا وَعَلَى قَوْلِنَا خَلْفَ الْإِمَامِ: آمِينَ» (They will not envy us for anything more than they envy us for Friday which we have been guided to, while they were led astray from it, and for the Qiblah which we were guided to, while they were led astray from it, and for our saying `Amin' behind the Imam.) Also, Ibn Majah recorded this Hadith with the wording, «مَا حَسَدَتْكُمُ الْيَهُودُ عَلَى شَيْءٍ مَا حَسَدَتْكُمْ عَلَى السَّلَامِ وَالتَّأْمِينِ» (The Jews have never envied you more than for your saying the Salam (Islamic greeting) and for saying Amin.) rgiveness). veneooA ? Further, it is recorded in Sahih Muslim that Abu Musa related to the Prophet that he said, «إِذَا قَالَ يَعنِي الْإِمَامَ : وَلَا الضَّالِّينَ، فَقُولُوا: آمِينَ، يُجِبْكُمُ اللهُ» (When the Imam says, `Walad-dallin', say, `Amin' and Allah will answer your invocation.) In addition, At-Tirmidhi said that `Amin' means, "Do not disappoint our hope'', while the majority of scholars said that it means. "Answer our invocation.'' Also, in his Musnad, Imam Ahmad recorded that `A'ishah said that when the Jews were mentioned to him, the Messenger of Allah said, «إِنَّهُم لَنْ يَحْسُدُونَا عَلَى شَيْءٍ كَمَا يَحْسُدُونَا عَلَى الْجُمُعَةِ الَّتِي هَدَانَا اللهُ لَهَا وَضَلُّوا عَنْهَا، وَعَلَى الْقِبْلَةِ الَّتِي هَدَانَا اللهُ لَهَا وَضَلُّوا عَنْهَا وَعَلَى قَوْلِنَا خَلْفَ الْإِمَامِ: آمِينَ» (They will not envy us for anything more than they envy us for Friday which we have been guided to, while they were led astray from it, and for the Qiblah which we were guided to, while they were led astray from it, and for our saying `Amin' behind the Imam.) Also, Ibn Majah recorded this Hadith with the wording, «مَا حَسَدَتْكُمُ الْيَهُودُ عَلَى شَيْءٍ مَا حَسَدَتْكُمْ عَلَى السَّلَامِ وَالتَّأْمِينِ» (The Jews have never envied you more than for your saying the Salam (Islamic greeting) and for saying Amin.) There are many hadiths showing saying Amin loudly. Plz read... Muslim: Book 4, Number 0816: Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: When the reciter (Imam) utters: "Not of those on whom (is Thine) wrath and not the erring ones," and (the person) behind him utters Amin and his utterance synchronises with that of the dwellers of heavens, all his previous sins would be pardoned. Sunan Abu-Dawud: Book 2, Number 0934: Narrated AbuHurayrah: When the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) recited the verse "Not of those with whom Thou art angry, nor of those who go astray," he would say Amin so loudly that those near him in the first row would hear it. Bukhari: Volume 6, Book 60, Number 2: Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "When the Imam says: 'Ghair-il-Maghdubi 'Alaihim Walad-Dallin (i.e. not the path of those who earn Your Anger, nor the path of those who went astray (1.7)), then you must say, 'Ameen', for if one's utterance of 'Ameen' coincides with that of the angels, then his past sins will be forgiven." 
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08-22-2011, 03:54 AM
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#17 |
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There are many hadiths showing saying Amin loudly. Plz read... Muslim: Book 4, Number 0816: Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: When the reciter (Imam) utters: "Not of those on whom (is Thine) wrath and not the erring ones," and (the person) behind him utters Amin and his utterance synchronises with that of the dwellers of heavens, all his previous sins would be pardoned. Suppose the above is an accurate translation from the Arabic, uttering Ameen can be done lightly or loudly, it would still be uttering. http://hadith.al-islam.com/Page.aspx...kID=25&PID=692 أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ قَالَ إِذَا قَالَ الْقَارِئُ غَيْرِ الْمَغْضُوبِ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلَا الضَّالِّينَ فَقَالَ مَنْ خَلْفَهُ آمِينَ فَوَافَقَ قَوْلُهُ قَوْلَ أَهْلِ السَّمَاءِ غُفِرَ لَهُ مَا تَقَدَّمَ مِنْ ذَنْبِهِ Sunan Abu-Dawud: Book 2, Number 0934: Narrated AbuHurayrah: When the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) recited the verse "Not of those with whom Thou art angry, nor of those who go astray," he would say Amin so loudly that those near him in the first row would hear it. There is a problem in this narrative, a narrator by the name of بشر بن رافع has been classed as Munkar, Matrook, Leen, Dha'eef, Not strong by the Muhaddithoon. The words of some of the Muhaddithoon on the narrator Bishr Bin Rafi': أبو أحمد الحاكم - ليس بالقوي عندهم أبو بشر الدولابي - متروك أبو بكر البزار - لين الحديث وقد احتمل حديثه أبو بكر البيهقي - ليس بالقوي، وفي شعب الإيمان، وقال: ضعيف أبو حاتم الرازي - ضعيف الحديث منكر الحديث لا تري له حديثا قائما أبو حاتم بن حبان البستي - يأتي بطامات وأشياء موضوعة عن يحيى بن أبي كثير وغيره يعرفها من لم يكن الحديث صناعته كأنه المتعمد لها، يروي أشياء موضوعة كأنه المتعمد لها أبو عيسى الترمذي - يضعف في الحديث، ومرة: ليس بقوي في الحديث أحمد بن حنبل - ليس بشيء ضعيف الحديث، ومرة: ضعيف أحمد بن شعيب النسائي - ضعيف، ومرة: ليس بالقوي ابن حجر العسقلاني - فقيه ضعيف الحديث ابن عبد البر الأندلسي - منكر الحديث، ومرة: ضعيف عندهم منكر الحديث، ومرة: اتفقوا على إنكار حديثه وطرح ما رواه وترك الاحتجاج به لا يختلف علماء الحديث في ذلك محمد بن إسماعيل البخاري - لا يتابع على حديثه يحيى بن معين - ثقة، فسئل: هو ثقة؟ فقال يحدث بمناكير، ومرة: ليس به بأس يعقوب بن سفيان الفسوي - لين الحديث الدارقطني- منكر الحديث furthermore, if Ameen was said SO LOUDLY (as your translation indicates) then why on earth did only those in the first row near to him hear it only? that contradicts.Bukhari: Volume 6, Book 60, Number 2: Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "When the Imam says: 'Ghair-il-Maghdubi 'Alaihim Walad-Dallin (i.e. not the path of those who earn Your Anger, nor the path of those who went astray (1.7)), then you must say, 'Ameen', for if one's utterance of 'Ameen' coincides with that of the angels, then his past sins will be forgiven." See the first repsonse, same. Uttering doesn't mean loud by default. nfact look at my response previously to Sufi. As for all the other narratives you have put forward they do not mention Jahr. Wa Iyyak.
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08-22-2011, 08:45 PM
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#18 |
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Thanks bro Al-Zayn
But I'm still confused regarding the ending of the prayer.. I would really appreciate evidence JZK |
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08-23-2011, 03:14 AM
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#19 |
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Thanks bro Al-Zayn Like i said the Hanafi way of ending Salah is fine and in accordance with the Sunnah. Because of another hadith stating that Rasulullah said: "When the Imam stands for you stand, when he says Takbeer, you say it..."Generally by this hadith it tells us after the Imams says something we should say it. So after the the first Salam of the Imam we should say it, after his second, we should say it. I read Nur 'Ala al-Darb of Shaykh Bin Baaz regarding this Mas'alah although he says the Ma'moom can say Salaam after the first Salaam of the Imam he says it is better to say it after the second, but he doesn't utilise any proof. I also read Islamqa on their fatwa they also say the same thing but ironically they dont use any proof too. Dont worry. |
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08-23-2011, 04:05 AM
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#20 |
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