[disappointment2]

do you see the quotes around the salaf in the second phrase you quoted? its written: 'salaf'
have you heard of the naqshbandis?they quote various references from Hazrat Abu Bakr (r.a)...most people believe those references arent true. this is what i meant by 'salaf'

LOL, from nisf sha'ban you are now going on about naqshabandis! Just drop it, or alternatively, open up a new thread.

[CoallyPax]

Exactly what is weak?

Hafidh Ibn Rajab al-Hanbali says in Lata'if al-Ma'arif:

وقال الحافظ ابن رجب الحنبلي رحمه الله في كتابه ((لطائف المعارف)) ص199-201 ما نصه:

((وليلة النصف من شعبان كان التابعون من أهل الشام كخالد بن معدان و مكحول ولقمان بن عامر وغيرهم يعظمونها ويجتهدون فيها في العبادة ،وعنهم أخذ الناس فضلها وتعظيمها ، ... ، منهم طائفة من عباد البصرة وغيرهم ........ واختلف علماء أهل الشام في صفة إحيائها على قولين:

أحدهما: أنه يستحب إحياؤها جماعة في المسجد. كان خالد بن معدان ولقمان بن عامر وغيرهما يلبسون فيها أحسن ثيابهم ويتبخرون ويكتحلون ويقومون في المسجد ليلتهم تلك. ووافقهم إسحاق بن راهوية في ذلك وقال في قيامها في المساجد جماعة: ليس ذلك ببدعة.

نقلة عنه حرب الكرماني في مسائله

والثاني: أنه يكره الاجتماع فيها في المساجد للصلاة، والقصص، والدعاء، ولا يكره أن يصلي الرجل فيها لخاصة نفسه. وهذا قول الأوزاعي إمام أهل الشام وعالمهم وفقيههم، وهذا هو الأقرب إنشاء الله تعالى. ...، وقال الشافعي: بلغنا أن الدعاء يستجاب في خمس ليال: ليلة الجمعة، والعيدين، وأول رجب، ونصف شعبان. قال: واستحب ما حكيت في هذه اليالي.... .

فيا من أعتق فيها من النار هنيئا لك هذه المنحة الجسيمة. ويا أيها المطرود عنها جبر الله مصيبتك فإنها مصيبة عظيمة ... فينبغي للمؤمن أن يتفرغ في تلك الليلة لذكر الله تعالى ودعائه بغفران الذنوب وستر العيوب وتفريج الكروب، وأن يقدم على ذلك التوبة، فإن الله يتوب فيها على من يتوب... ويتعين على المسلم أن يجتنب الذنوب التي تمنع من المغفرة وقبول الدعاء في تلك الليلة



Then why did you say this:



And:





Is that so? then why did you say this:



My above reference to Hafidh Ibn Rajab will sort that out. the Salaf indeed practiced upon this night - no two doubts.

I am going to answer your questions so read caefully and dont ask me again.
there are two sides to a doubtful religious activity and since you have stated your belief i feel i should state mine. or rather i would state from another thread since we are all so adept at copy pasting:
this was quoted by 'Colonel_Hardstone' in another thread. i hope he doesnt mind me copying his words here which i agree with:
"Shaykh (Mufti) Rasheed Ahmed Ludhyanwi (RA) has declared this Bid'ah in Ahsanul-Fatawa and quoted major Deobandi Scholars.

Shaykh (Maulana) Ashraf Ali Thanwi (RA) also reversed his position on certain aspects of this night.

There are loads of Scholars who disagree with the Authentificity of these narrations and Shaykh (Mufti) Rasheed Ahmed Ludhyanwi (RA) famously said, "These narrations are so weak that even 1000 of them won't make much difference!"

or alternately you can google 'shabaan 15th ' and you will find resources for and against this. i dont really have time to do that. you will find in the 'against' arguments that they give the view opposite to you.
my point was that when in doubt i take the safe option and steer clear away from any activity/action that has a hint of bid'ah in it. you are free to choose the opposite.

as i quoted below about the use of parenthesis in english language i dont think i have to repeat again.

i posted on this thread mainly so that both sides of the story should come out. you and some other brothers seem to have taken it personally for which i apologise. however i do not appreciate every sentence of mine quoted and portions of it marked in bold asking for explanations for use of parentheses in english language.

as for this guy who posted above you asking why naqshbandis have bin quoted ,i was merely giving an example of how salaf are wrongly attributed with things they did not do.
you believe the salaf treated 15th shabaan as special. i have reservations. however that does not mean i disrespect the salaf.
thats that.

[LfYaRf1S]

Brother I DID NOT I REPEAT; DID NOT have a problem with those who respectfully disagree, if you dont want to practice this night because you want to opt for what other Scholars say then that is fine, but dont be saying things that are beyond your own comprehension or statements that are attacking the Salaf.

I didn't reply because of the authenticity dispute, rather the accusations you made that the SALAF who held this night to be special are weak references, you said:

the 'salaf' in question are known to have held this night special by weak references. To which i replied from Ibn Taymiyyah's Book al-Majmu and Ibn Rajab al-Hanbali's book Lataai'f al-Ma'aarif - go look above.

Then you went on to say:

so the 'salaf' do a lot of things according to weak references. and:

you know full well what weak narrations are and the actions the salaf are doing in them may not be correct. You should ponder over what you have said.

What you have pasted from Colonel Sahib is what he posted in the other thread regarding Laylathul-Bara'ah. it has nothing to with this discussion because like i said, if you want to respectfully disagree then fine, but know your limits in disagrements - infact take an example from Colonel Sahib's Adabi disagreement.

my point was that when in doubt i take the safe option and steer clear away from any activity/action that has a hint of bid'ah in it. Bid'ah? it is a loosely used word for this topic, when there are narrations regarding something - be it weak - acting upon that narration doesn't mean your introducing something (Bid'ah)- Yes you can say one is acting upon weak ahadith. You should know and understand terminologies properly and how they should be used.

Secondly; doubt here is not regarding Haram and Halal, its a false argument. it is regarding Fadha'il, infact the safer option here would be to act on the Fadha'il for Ihtiyaat as you dont want to miss out on any special Barakah IF there is. (though you dont have to)

you believe the salaf treated 15th shabaan as special. i have reservations. however that does not mean i disrespect the salaf. I believe? i quoted YOU statements from the Salaf regarding this night, and i quoted authors where they attributed this view to other Scholars from the Salaf. Atleast have the decency to agree that some Scholars from the salaf did practice this night - especially when i bought proof.

This is a forum, and you will be quoted, furthermore it is not against forum rules (atleast as far as i am aware).

[Efksqhyu]

Jazakallah brother.

[Tainlyferfara]

This forum is very disheartening

Does everything have to be debated??????????????

Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala states that every deed is judged according to the intention.
If we are spending more time wondering whether certain hadith is weak or not, we will end up not performing any ibaadat.

Alhamduliilah, as for me I don't bother whether a hadith is weak or not, as long as it benefits my Imaan, I will do it and Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala knows best.

Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala is Most Beneficial, He will reward one accordingly.

What message are we passing to people out of the fold of Islam with all these quarrels????????????
Islam is a religion of peace and brotherhood. Sadly, this forum does not practice this.

Please stop all this in fighting and learn to accept the differences between the divided ummah.

The division between the ummah is the main reason for the axis of evil (amerika, britain and israel) for bombing muslim countries at free will.

Dajjal (israel) uses the other two as pawns to spread oppression in muslim lands and members of the forum are aiding dajjals agenda.

For the pleasure of Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala spread the love of brotherhood instead of division.

Shukran Jazeelan

[Draftcasino.com]

Back to the topic.......

There is this really good book "Radiant Prayers" by mufti taqi usmani db which has many du'as from authentic sources.

[Tainlyferfara]

Notes from a Khutbah by Imam Anwar al-Awlaki
*
Praise be to Allaah, we seek His help and His forgiveness. We seek refuge with Allaah from the evil of our own souls and from our bad deeds. Whomsoever Allaah guides will never be led astray, and whomsoever Allaah leaves astray, no one can guide. I bear witness that there is no god but Allaah, and I bear witness that Muhammad( Peace and Blessings Be Upon Him )is His slave and Messenger.


Dear Brothers and Sisters, there’s a famous Story (parable) that I will go through, you may have herd it before, but there are some very important lessons we can learn from it. The story goes like this:

There were four Cows. One of them was white and the other three were black . They used to live in a dangerous area surrounded by wolves. The way they protected themselves was that they were always together, they would stick together, watch out for each other, everyone was keeping an attentive eye, and they survived, even though the area was surrounded by wild beasts.

But the three black cows had a meeting one day. And they said, “This white cow is giving us away. When we try to hide at night, because we are black no one can see us, but the enemy is able to see the white cow, so why don’t we just let him go. The three of us will be together and let’s just let the white cow go away because he is just too much trouble.” So now from that day on, the three black cows would be on one side and the poor white cow is alone. They boycotted the white cow.

Now the wolf is very intelligent. He was able to detect the disunity that was amongst these cows. So he made his move and he attacked the white cow, and while he was devouring his flesh, the three black cows were doing nothing. They were watching it, while their brother was being torn into pieces!

But the following night, the wolf attacked the three black cows, why? Because now there was one cow short. So they were not as strong as they were the day before. Because they let down their brother white cow, now the wolf attacked them and was able to snatch away one of the black cows. And now we only have two left.

So the following night, it was an even easier thing for the wolf because only two are left, so he ate one of them. And then on the final night there was only one cow left and the cow was trying frantically to run away from the wolf, but now the cow has no supporter and no helper. So the wolf is pursing it with confidence and he knows this cow will get tired and fall down, there’s nothing the cow could do. Nobody to help him, so the wolf is walking around very happily with confidence, and he pounced at the cow and grabbed him by the neck, and while he did that and the cow was pronouncing his last words, he made a very important statement, a statement that is a great lesson that we can learn from. This black cow said, (while he was dying), ?I was eaten, the day the white cow was eaten. I had signed on my execution form, the day I allowed the white cow to be eaten, that’s when I died. I didn’t die now, I didn’t die today” I died when I allowed the wolf to eat the white cow?

Now brothers and sisters I’m sure some of you have already derived some lessons out of this story. I will now go through some of them Insha’Allah


Lesson 1: The Ummah

This story is a good representation of the situation of the Muslim Ummah today. This is exactly what is happening. We are watching one Muslim nation fall one after another, and we are watching, sitting back, doing nothing. When Palestine was taken, we did nothing. And then one nation after another is falling into problems; you have Kashmir, you have Chechnya, the Muslims in the Philippines, and now we have Iraq, and the Ummah is doing nothing. The Ummah is watching, while Iraq is being devoured. It’s not going to end there, because it’s going to spill over to other countries like Syria and only Allah knows who is next! So those nations weren’t taken today, they were taken along time ago. When we allowed a Muslim nation to fall down, we have allowed the same thing to happen to each and every one of us.


Lesson 2: Unity

This shows us the consequences of having disunity. When these cows didn’t stick together, when the allowed the enemy to snatch one of them away, this is what happened to them, they were all defeated. Dear brothers and sisters, the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) had given an analogy of the Ummah, Nu'man b. Bashir reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: “The similitude of believers in regard to mutual love, affection, fellow-feeling is that of one body; when any limb of it aches, the whole body aches, because of sleeplessness and fever.” [Sahih Muslim, Book 032, Number 6258]

The Prophet (peace be upon him) is saying, if your finger is injured or your foot is injured, any part of the body is injured and you feel that pain, you cannot sleep! And your body develops a fever because your body is trying to fight the bacteria inside the infection. It's trying to fight the enemy so the whole body gets involved in that process. That is the description the Prophet (peace be upon him) gave of the Ummah.

So if a Muslim, in the East, or in the West, or South or North, whether if it’s in the centre of the body or the tips, where it’s on the finger or the toes, you should feel the same pain as if it is happening to you own family. If you are only concerned about your own safety and the safety of your direct family, then there’s something wrong. You are not really part of the body. The Prophet (peace be upon him) is saying the Ummah is one body, it doesn’t matter if they are split into different political states or if they are in different groups, or if they belong to different Madhahabs, as long as this person is a Muslim; and a Muslim is a person who has a sound belief in Allah, somebody who is not deviant, that’s a Muslim.

The thing is that sometimes we look at it as, “Only me and my group are Muslim”, Why? Because he doesn’t follow my Jamaa’h, he’s not following my way. As long as you cannot prove that that Muslim is a Kaffir, he’s a Muslim. As long as you don’t have evidence, that such a person is a Murtad (Apostate), he is a Muslim; whether he belongs to the same Madhhab or the same group or the same country, it doesn’t make a difference.

Now we all talk about the importance of having Unity. If we talking about having Unity in terms of having one Group and just abandoning all these different Jamaa’ts and we get ride of all of these different Madhahabs and we’ll all just be copies of each other, that’s an impossible thing to have. What we mean by Unity is that even though your approach to Islamic work might be different, the Madhhab that you follow might be different, however, you are there to help you brother when your brother is in need, that is Unity. You could have different approaches to work, you could be doing different things, because we need different things, the Ummah needs everything today. We have a short coming and deficiency in each and every area, therefore we need Muslims to fill those posts, and therefore our approach would be different. Some people are into Da’wah, some people will be into seeking ‘Ilm (Islamic Knowledge), some people will be into ‘Ibadaah (Worship), people are different. Not everybody can be a copy of everyone else.

People have different abilities. Some people make good scholars, some people make good Imams, some people make good teachers and some people make a good advisor. People are different. Some people, they are good at doing work, they are not really into talking and theory, they are good at doing the daily work that the Muslims need. Everybody is fulfilling a role. And we need to appreciate that. So what is meant by Unity, it means when your brother is in need, you jump to help him, that is Unity. Regardless of what his ideology is as long as he is a Muslim. That is Unity.

So we have to fulfill the meaning of the hadith, that the Ummah is one body; when any limb of it aches, the whole body aches?? You need to feel the pain and suffering when you see what is happening to your brothers and sisters in other parts of the world. You need to be concerned about what is happening in Palestine and Iraq. You need to be concerned with what is happening in Kashmir, even though it is not you country. And some of these Muslim countries have problems among them, they have wars, they have political problems, but as a Muslim, it shouldn’t make a difference to you. These governments are having problems with each other, but that nation, the Muslims in there are my brothers (and sisters). That’s how you should look at it. So we should have that concern for the Muslim Ummah. The one that is not concerned about the Muslims doesn’t belong to them.

Narrated 'Abdullah: The Prophet said, "Everyone will be with those whom he loves." [Sahih Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 73, Number 189] You will be with the people you love on the day of Judgment. If you have love for the Muslims, you will be with the Muslims on the day of judgment. If you have love for the Kuffar, you will be with the Kuffar on the day of Judgment, that’s how it works. That’s the Justice of Allah. Somebody who loves the Muslims, will be with the Muslims, and will follow them wherever they will go. And that’s why on the Day of Judgment, the Prophet (peace be upon him said, "Allah will tell the people, “Follow the Gods you used to worship.” So whoever used to worship the cross will follow the cross, and whoever used to worship an idol will follow that idol. Allah is telling them, if you didn’t worship Me, you can’t expect Me to give you the Rewards. Go to your gods and tell them to reward you on this day. And then Allah will take all of the false gods and throw them in Hell fire, and their people will have to follow them. Because Allah is just, u did it for Him, He will reward you, but if you did it for somebody else, you go and ask the reward from the other god. And there is No god besides Allah.

Lesson 3: The consequences of betrayal. The consequences of forsaking a Muslim.


Narrated 'Abdullah bin Umar: Allah's Apostle (saw) said, "A Muslim is a brother of another Muslim, so he should not oppress him, nor should he hand him over to an oppressor. Whoever fulfilled the needs of his brother, Allah will fulfill his needs; whoever brought his (Muslim) brother out of a discomfort, Allah will bring him out of the discomforts of the Day of Resurrection, and whoever screened a Muslim, Allah will screen him on the Day of Resurrection . " [Sahih Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 43, Number 622 and Volume 9, Book 85, Number 83; Sahih Muslim, Book 032, Number 6250] The three cows in the story handed the white cow over to the enemy.

Now by doing this, they thought they are securing themselves. They thought they would be safe if they handed over this white cow. This white cow was out spoken, it was causing a lot of trouble, it was being accused of being a terrorist, so let him go, we don’t want anything to do with him. Let him go to jail. But the thing is they don’t realize that it will come to you next. You will be next in line. So brothers, if you want to protect yourselves, now we are not talking about doing anything for your brothers that are down, if you want to protect yourself you need to stop that. You need to stop such things from happening, because as soon as you allow one Muslim to be taken, Allah does not help you anymore. You loose the assistance of Allah. "Whoever fulfilled the needs of his brother, Allah will fulfill his needs; whoever brought his (Muslim) brother out of a discomfort, Allah will bring him out of the discomforts of the Day of Resurrection"
If you work to help your Muslim brothers who are in need, Allah will help you when you are in need in the day of judgment.

Now all of us know that we cannot make it alone. Without the help and assistance of Allah, we cannot go anywhere. If you want the assistance of Allah to be on your side, Jump to the assistance of your brother. That’s how you will protect yourself. If you let him (your Muslim brother) down, don’t think that will please you enemy, no! It won’t! They enemy will carry on. Take it as a rule, Shaytan will never be satisfied, will never be happy, until he is able to destroy the entire Ummah. Nothing will satisfy Shaytan. If you try to please him by all means, it's not going to work. He has been our enemy since the time of Adam and he will carry on being our enemy until the time of the Day of Judgment. Don’t think that you will please him and keep him quiet, by feeding him one of your brothers. No! His hunger is never satisfied. His thirst is never quenched.

If we betray or forsake a Muslim who is in need today, be assured that Allah will forsake us tomorrow. And brothers and sisters, for you who are living in the west, you are living in a dilemma, your children are brought up in a non-Islamic environment and you’re not going to be around, you’re going to die. One day you are going to die and leave them behind. And only Allah knows what their fate will be, possibly they could grow up and become non Muslims, that’s a possibility. We ask Allah that none of our children go astray from the Straight Path, but the thing is that you need to invest for the future of your children. You need to invest something for them, to ensure they will carry on, on the straight path. You don’t want to be held accountable on the Day of Judgment and Allah is telling you, “You are the ones who brought your families to this Land, therefore you are responsible for what they do in the future. And you will be responsible for generations after generations that come.” So you want to invest for your children. And the way you do that, is by standing up for your brother who is in need of help. Allah will be there for you and will be there for your children.

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said in the hadith of Ibn Abbas, “If you take care of the command of Allah, Allah will take care of you (and you will find Allah with you).” And how does that happen? Ibn Rajab al-Hanbali explains the hadith. He says:

i) If you take care of Allah, Allah will take care of you by keeping you away from vain desires and doubts in Imaan (Belief);

ii) If you take care of the commands of Allah when you are young, Allah will take care of you in you old age;

iii) If you take care of the commands of Allah, Allah will take care of your children.

And Ibn Rajab gives an example of the Last one. He talks about the Story of Musa and al-Khidr. Allah says in Quran, “Then they both (Musa and al-Khidr) proceeded, till, when they came to the people of a town, they asked them for food, but they refused to entertain them. Then they found therein a wall about to collapse and he (Khidr) set it up straight. (Mûsa) said: If you had wished, surely, you could have taken wages for it!"? (Al-Kahf 18:77) Then Al-Khidr explains why he fixed the wall for free, "And as for the wall, it belonged to two orphan boys in the town; and there was under it a treasure belonging to them; and their father was a righteous man, and your Lord intended that they should attain their age of full strength and take out their treasure as a mercy from your Lord. And I did it not of my own accord. That is the interpretation of those (things) over which you could not hold patience." (Al-Kahf 18:82)

So Allah took care of the orphans because there father were righteous. These orphans were not old enough to be held accountable, so we could not have known if they were going to be righteous or not, but the reason why Allah put the treasure there was because their father was a righteous man. And the father had already passed away, so Allah was taking care of that mans kids. And Allah sent al-Khidr all the way just to fix that wall, why? This was because their father was a righteous man. So not only will take care of them when you are alive, but he will take care of them after you pass away, what's better then that?! Therefore we need to be taking care of the Commands of Allah, and don't think by ducking down you will be safe, you will not, you will be next.

Now dear brothers and sisters, we talked about this issue in general, however some specific in you city, in your own neighbourhood, we are not talking about things that are happening in Iraq or Palestine or somewhere else. In your own city and this country, many Muslims have been arrested. You know when you talk about Guantanamo bay and all that stuff; there is a Guantanamo bay in this country. There were 524 Muslims who were arrested under the new laws and only 2 of them have been charged. You have over 520 Muslims who are locked up in Jail, and are left to rot in there, and they haven’t committed any crime and there no charges brought against them. They are left there in just months on end, to rot there in the prison cells. What have you done for them? Your North African brothers who have nobody to help them in this country, and the Muslim community is not doing anything for them and they are left there, years at end.

One brother was telling me about the conditions of his family; these are poor brothers and sisters, their families are left without any caretakers, and they are suffering poverty, and no one is doing anything for them. And recently there have been some British citizens who were arrested; later on they were released because there was nothing against them. And one of them, he was beaten up by police, when they arrested him, and he did not resist at all, he raised up his hands and the police came in and started beating him up. And then what did they do? After he was bleeding and had a black eye and blood was coming from his ears and urine, the police put him in the posture of sujood and they told him, “Where is you God now?” Insult to Islam, insult to our religion, insult to our Ummah, you need to do something; you can’t just sit there and watch. This is an insult to our religion, it’s not just an insult to the brother, and it’s an insult to Islam. You putting someone in sujood and telling him where is you god? Allahu Akbar, you are trying to challenge Allah? Allah is Just and Allah will revenge for himself. Allah does not need us. But the thing is that we can’t allow such things to happen and we watch.

You just sit there watching and doing nothing. Thinking by ducking down and being quiet, we will be safe. If you don’t stop it now, it could happen to you, it could happen to your wife, it could happen to your own daughter. You need to stop it in its tracks before it grows. (Don’t ask me how) So you need to do whatever you are capable of doing. It’s a responsibility that’s hanging on your neck, its something that you owe to your Muslim brothers, you owe to the Ummah and you owe it to Allah. You know you don’t think that our religion is just you talk about theoretical things and we stay away from what is happening to the Ummah. That is why the Muslims in Spain, lost Spain. Al-Makari, who was a classical Muslim historian, said (and this was while the Muslim towns were falling down) , “The Muslim towns were being invaded by the crusaders by town after another and they were falling one after another and you can walk into the mosques of Andalus and you can hear nothing about what’s happening to the Muslims. Nobody talks about it in the Khuthbah, (not allowed in Saudi in particular) *no body talks about it in the lessons, nothing! The scholars are talking about theoretical things and they are leaving the Ummah, and the Ummah is being betrayed.”

Ibn Hazm al-Andalusi, the famous scholar from Andalus, was so frustrated and fed up of the situation of the scholars and the imams of al-Andalus, he said, ”Do not be deceived by these Fusaaq (corrupt people), who claim to be scholars while they are wearing the skins of sheep on hearts of wolves.” He said what are they doing? They are doing nothing for the Ummah. The Ummah is falling down, the Ummah is being fought against, and the land of al-Andalus is being invaded and they are talking about some other issues.

So we need to stand up, we need to immobilize, we need to unify, we need to stand up and make our voice herd and this is an Ibadaah; it is an Ibadaah you are doing. You are worshipping Allah by assisting your brothers. And Allah will save it for you, in Dunya and you will be rewarded in Akhira . And you are going to need it because the Ummah is going through fitan (Trials and Tribulations), each and every one of us is going through fitan. We ask Allah to protect us, to protect our families, and to protect our descendants” Ameen


And It is Only Allah Who grants success. May Allah Exalt the mention of His slave and Messenger Muhammad, (Choicest blessing and peace be upon him) and render him, his household and companions safe from Evil.

Ameen Summa Ameen

[CoallyPax]

Brother I DID NOT I REPEAT; DID NOT have a problem with those who respectfully disagree, if you dont want to practice this night because you want to opt for what other Scholars say then that is fine, but dont be saying things that are beyond your own comprehension or statements that are attacking the Salaf.

I didn't reply because of the authenticity dispute, rather the accusations you made that the SALAF who held this night to be special are weak references, you said:



To which i replied from Ibn Taymiyyah's Book al-Majmu and Ibn Rajab al-Hanbali's book Lataai'f al-Ma'aarif - go look above.

Then you went on to say:



and:



You should ponder over what you have said.

What you have pasted from Colonel Sahib is what he posted in the other thread regarding Laylathul-Bara'ah. it has nothing to with this discussion because like i said, if you want to respectfully disagree then fine, but know your limits in disagrements - infact take an example from Colonel Sahib's Adabi disagreement.



Bid'ah? it is a loosely used word for this topic, when there are narrations regarding something - be it weak - acting upon that narration doesn't mean your introducing something (Bid'ah)- Yes you can say one is acting upon weak ahadith. You should know and understand terminologies properly and how they should be used.

Secondly; doubt here is not regarding Haram and Halal, its a false argument. it is regarding Fadha'il, infact the safer option here would be to act on the Fadha'il for Ihtiyaat as you dont want to miss out on any special Barakah IF there is. (though you dont have to)



I believe? i quoted YOU statements from the Salaf regarding this night, and i quoted authors where they attributed this view to other Scholars from the Salaf. Atleast have the decency to agree that some Scholars from the salaf did practice this night - especially when i bought proof.

This is a forum, and you will be quoted, furthermore it is not against forum rules (atleast as far as i am aware).

i think there is a general disagreement on ihityaat between you and me. you see ihtiyaat as doing the doubtful thing, i deem it as not doing the doubtful thing. as per the hadith of sahih bukhari:
Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 34, Number 267: Narrated An-Nu'man bin Bashir: The Prophet said "Both legal and illegal things are obvious, and in between them are (suspicious) doubtful matters. So who-ever forsakes those doubtful things lest he may commit a sin, will definitely avoid what is clearly illegal; and who-ever indulges in these (suspicious) doubtful things bravely, is likely to commit what is clearly illegal. Sins are Allah's Hima (i.e. private pasture) and whoever pastures (his sheep) near it, is likely to get in it at any moment."

and regarding this 'debate', i think every muslim has the right to know there are two sides to a coin. if some muslims propagate that its good to go and visit graveyards just on 15th, to do worship just on 15th believing it to be special then there should be muslims who propagate that all of this has no basis in shariah and whole shabaan is virtuous. that way people can decide for themselves.
and i agree it is not a bid'ah. i later realized i shd have stated it when i quoted the other person. its 'doubtful'. sorry for that.

yes please quote me. but not on matters relating to the use of parentheses in english language. when someone puts parentheses they are saying that this word does not mean here what it actually means.
AH

[CoallyPax]

This forum is very disheartening

Does everything have to be debated??????????????

Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala states that every deed is judged according to the intention.
If we are spending more time wondering whether certain hadith is weak or not, we will end up not performing any ibaadat.

Alhamduliilah, as for me I don't bother whether a hadith is weak or not, as long as it benefits my Imaan, I will do it and Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala knows best.

Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala is Most Beneficial, He will reward one accordingly.

What message are we passing to people out of the fold of Islam with all these quarrels????????????
Islam is a religion of peace and brotherhood. Sadly, this forum does not practice this.

Please stop all this in fighting and learn to accept the differences between the divided ummah.

The division between the ummah is the main reason for the axis of evil (amerika, britain and israel) for bombing muslim countries at free will.

Dajjal (israel) uses the other two as pawns to spread oppression in muslim lands and members of the forum are aiding dajjals agenda.

For the pleasure of Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala spread the love of brotherhood instead of division.

Shukran Jazeelan

there is a difference between ikhtilaaf and khilaaf.
similarly there is a difference between debate and quarrel.
nobody was fighting here.
and 'spreading the love of brotherhood' doesnt mean you should agree with others when you disagree. read about the differences between Hazrat Umar (ra) and hazrat Abu Bakr (ra). they had disagreements but they respected and loved each other too.
so they had ikhtilaaf not khilaaf.
good day.

[LfYaRf1S]

i think there is a general disagreement on ihityaat between you and me. you see ihtiyaat as doing the doubtful thing, i deem it as not doing the doubtful thing.

Ihthiyaath HERE is for Fadhaa'il (Virtues) NOTHING else - NOT for Food NOT for Transactions! - you my brother are mixing everything up.

I see Ihthiyaat as a precautionary measure for practicing WEAK FADHAAI'L - but for the issue of Laylah al-Bara'ah i deem this as authentic anyway because:

[1] Many Ahadith have been narrated, some have been authenticated to the level of Sahih whilst others have been authenticated to the level of Hasan by many capable Scholars of the past.

[2] All these Ahadith put together can be used as Shawahid - Supoorting narratiions (as even mentioned by a few Salafi / Ahle Hadith Scholars).

[3] Some of the Scholars from the Salaf practiced this night in solitutde (Imam Shafi'i, Hafidh Ibn Rajab quoted many), which is also proof for the Muslimeen as mentioned by Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah that the Salaf are Hujjah (an Usool).

[4] It is a night of virtue, EVEN IF it was weak one can still practice it for Ihthiyaath as many Scholars have mentioned that WEAK FADHAA'IL can be practiced.

as per the hadith of sahih bukhari:
Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 34, Number 267: Narrated An-Nu'man bin Bashir: The Prophet said "Both legal and illegal things are obvious, and in between them are (suspicious) doubtful matters. So who-ever forsakes those doubtful things lest he may commit a sin, will definitely avoid what is clearly illegal; and who-ever indulges in these (suspicious) doubtful things bravely, is likely to commit what is clearly illegal. Sins are Allah's Hima (i.e. private pasture) and whoever pastures (his sheep) near it, is likely to get in it at any moment." This is the hadith from Bukhari:

قَالَ النَّبِيُّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ الْحَلَالُ بَيِّنٌ وَالْحَرَامُ بَيِّنٌ وَبَيْنَهُمَا أُمُورٌ مُشْتَبِهَةٌ فَمَنْ تَرَكَ مَا شُبِّهَ عَلَيْهِ مِنْ الْإِثْمِ كَانَ لِمَا اسْتَبَانَ أَتْرَكَ وَمَنْ اجْتَرَأَ عَلَى مَا يَشُكُّ فِيهِ مِنْ الْإِثْمِ أَوْشَكَ أَنْ يُوَاقِعَ مَا اسْتَبَانَ وَالْمَعَاصِي حِمَى اللَّهِ مَنْ يَرْتَعْ حَوْلَ الْحِمَى يُوشِكُ أَنْ يُوَاقِعَهُ

And this is it's Sharh from Fath al-Bari Li Ibn Hajr al-'Asqalani:

http://hadith.al-islam.com/Page.aspx...=33&TOCID=1295

قَوْلُهُ : ( الْحَلَالُ بَيِّنٌ وَالْحَرَامُ بَيِّنٌ . . . إِلَخْ ) فِيهِ تَقْسِيمُ الْأَحْكَامِ إِلَى ثَلَاثَةِ أَشْيَاءَ ، وَهُوَ صَحِيحٌ ؛ لِأَنَّ الشَّيْءَ إِمَّا أَنْ يُنَصَّ عَلَى طَلَبِهِ مَعَ الْوَعِيدِ عَلَى تَرْكِهِ ، أَوْ يُنَصَّ عَلَى تَرْكِهِ مَعَ الْوَعِيدِ عَلَى فِعْلِهِ ، أَوْ لَا يُنَصَّ عَلَى وَاحِدٍ مِنْهُمَا . فَالْأَوَّلُ الْحَلَالُ الْبَيِّنُ ، وَالثَّانِي الْحَرَامُ الْبَيِّنُ . فَمَعْنَى قَوْلِهِ : " الْحَلَالُ بَيِّنٌ " أَيْ : لَا يَحْتَاجُ إِلَى بَيَانِهِ وَيَشْتَرِكُ فِي مَعْرِفَتِهِ كُلُّ أَحَدٍ ، وَالثَّالِثُ مُشْتَبِهٌ لِخَفَائِهِ فَلَا يُدْرَى هَلْ هُوَ حَلَالٌ أَوْ حَرَامٌ ، وَمَا كَانَ هَذَا سَبِيلَهُ يَنْبَغِي اجْتِنَابُهُ ؛ لِأَنَّهُ إِنْ كَانَ فِي نَفْسِ الْأَمْرِ حَرَامًا فَقَدْ بَرِئَ مِنْ تَبِعَتِهَا وَإِنْ كَانَ حَلَالًا فَقَدْ أُجِرَ عَلَى تَرْكِهَا بِهَذَا الْقَصْدِ ؛ لِأَنَّ الْأَصْلَ فِي الْأَشْيَاءِ مُخْتَلَفٌ فِيهِ حَظْرًا وَإِبَاحَةً ، وَالْأَوَّلَانِ قَدْ يُرَدَّانِ جَمِيعًا فَإِنْ عُلِمَ الْمُتَأَخِّرُ مِنْهُمَا وَإِلَّا فَهُوَ مِنْ حَيِّزِ الْقَسَمِ الثَّالِثِ ، وَسَأَذْكُرُ مَا فُسِّرَتْ بِهِ الشُّبْهَةُ بَعْدَ هَذَا الْبَابِ ، وَالْمُرَادُ أَنَّهَا مُشْتَبِهَةٌ عَلَى بَعْضِ النَّاسِ بِدَلِيلِ قَوْلِهِ - عَلَيْهِ السَّلَامُ - : لَا يَعْلَمُهَا كَثِيرٌ مِنَ النَّاسِ ، وَقَدْ تَقَدَّمَ الْكَلَامُ عَلَى ذَلِكَ وَعَلَى هَذَا الْحَدِيثِ مُسْتَوْفًى فِي " بَابِ فَضْلِ مَنِ اسْتَبْرَأَ لِدِينِهِ وَعِرْضِهِ " مِنْ كِتَابِ الْإِيمَانِ ، وَقَدْ تَوَارَدَ أَكْثَرُ الْأَئِمَّةِ الْمُخَرِّجِينَ لَهُ عَلَى إِيرَادِهِ فِي كِتَابِ الْبُيُوعِ ؛ لِأَنَّ الشُّبْهَةَ فِي الْمُعَامَلَاتِ تَقَعُ فِيهَا كَثِيرًا ، وَلَهُ تَعَلُّقٌ أَيْضًا بِالنِّكَاحِ وَبِالصَّيْدِ وَالذَّبَائِحِ وَالْأَطْعِمَةِ وَالْأَشْرِبَةِ وَغَيْرِ ذَلِكَ مِمَّا لَا يَخْفَى وَاللَّهُ الْمُسْتَعَانُ . وَفِيهِ دَلِيلٌ عَلَى جَوَازِ الْجَرْحِ وَالتَّعْدِيلِ قَالَهُ الْبَغَوِيُّ فِي " شَرْحِ السُّنَّةِ " وَاسْتَنْبَطَ مِنْهُ بَعْضُهُمْ مَنْعَ إِطْلَاقِ الْحَلَالِ وَالْحَرَامِ عَلَى مَا لَا نَصَّ فِيهِ ؛ لِأَنَّهُ مِنْ جُمْلَةِ مَا لَمْ يَسْتَبِنْ ، لَكِنَّ قَوْلَهُ - صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ - : لَا يَعْلَمُهَا كَثِيرٌ مِنَ النَّاسِ يُشْعِرُ بِأَنَّ مِنْهُمْ مَنْ يَعْلَمُهَا . وَقَوْلُهُ : فِي هَذِهِ الطَّرِيقِ " اسْتَبَانَ " أَيْ : ظَهَرَ تَحْرِيمُهُ . وَقَوْلُهُ : " أَوْشَكَ " أَيْ : قَرُبَ ؛ لِأَنَّ مُتَعَاطِيَ الشُّبُهَاتِ قَدْ يُصَادِفُ الْحَرَامَ وَإِنْ لَمْ يَتَعَمَّدْهُ أَوْ يَقَعْ فِيهِ لِاعْتِيَادِهِ التَّسَاهُلَ .

And here is Imam al-Nawawi's Sharh of the hadith in Muslim:

http://hadith.al-islam.com/Page.aspx...D=34&TOCID=718

( الْحَلَالُ بَيِّنٌ وَالْحَرَامُ بَيِّنٌ ) فَمَعْنَاهُ : أَنَّ الْأَشْيَاءَ ثَلَاثَةُ أَقْسَامٍ : حَلَالٌ بَيِّنٌ وَاضِحٌ لَا يَخْفَى حِلُّهُ ، كَالْخُبْزِ وَالْفَوَاكِهِ وَالزَّيْتِ وَالْعَسَلِ وَالسَّمْنِ وَلَبَنِ مَأْكُولِ اللَّحْمِ وَبَيْضِهِ وَغَيْرِ ذَلِكَ مِنَ الْمَطْعُومَاتِ ، وَكَذَلِكَ الْكَلَامُ وَالنَّظَرُ وَالْمَشْيُ وَغَيْرُ ذَلِكَ مِنَ التَّصَرُّفَاتِ ، فِيهَا حَلَالٌ بَيِّنٌ وَاضِحٌ لَا شَكَّ فِي حِلِّهِ

وَأَمَّا الْحَرَامُ الْبَيِّنُ فَكَالْخَمْرِ وَالْخِنْزِيرِ وَالْمَيْتَةِ وَالْبَوْلِ وَالدَّمِ الْمَسْفُوحِ ، وَكَذَلِكَ الزِّنَا وَالْكَذِبُ وَالْغِيبَةُ وَالنَّمِيمَةُ وَالنَّظَرُ إِلَى الْأَجْنَبِيَّةِ وَأَشْبَاهُ ذَلِكَ

وَأَمَّا الْمُشْتَبِهَاتُ فَمَعْنَاهُ أَنَّهَا لَيْسَتْ بِوَاضِحَةِ الْحِلِّ وَلَا الْحُرْمَةِ ، فَلِهَذَا لَا يَعْرِفُهَا كَثِيرٌ مِنَ النَّاسِ ، وَلَا يَعْلَمُونَ حُكْمَهَا ، وَأَمَّا الْعُلَمَاءُ فَيَعْرِفُونَ حُكْمَهَا بِنَصٍّ أَوْ قِيَاسٍ أَوِ اسْتِصْحَابٍ أَوْ غَيْرِ ذَلِكَ ، فَإِذَا تَرَدَّدَ الشَّيْءُ بَيْنَ الْحِلِّ وَالْحُرْمَةِ ، وَلَمْ يَكُنْ فِيهِ نَصٌّ وَلَا إِجْمَاعٌ اجْتَهَدَ فِيهِ الْمُجْتَهِدُ ، فَأَلْحَقَهُ بِأَحَدِهِمَا بِالدَّلِيلِ الشَّرْعِيِّ فَإِذَا أَلْحَقَهُ بِهِ صَارَ حِلًّا ، وَقَدْ يَكُونُ غَيْرَ خَالٍ عَنِ الِاحْتِمَالِ الْبَيِّنِ ، فَيَكُونُ الْوَرَعُ تَرْكَهُ

The hadith your using is not for the purpose of not practicing weak Ahadith, it is for the Halal and Haram in life and the doubtful matters in between, like food, transactions and business etc. Are you making DIY Usool as you go along?

and regarding this 'debate', i think every muslim has the right to know there are two sides to a coin. if some muslims propagate that its good to go and visit graveyards just on 15th, to do worship just on 15th believing it to be special then there should be muslims who propagate that all of this has no basis in shariah and whole shabaan is virtuous. that way people can decide for themselves.
and i agree it is not a bid'ah. i later realized i shd have stated it when i quoted the other person. its 'doubtful'. sorry for that. Fine everyone can be put forward either case, but that still doesnt mean you give blanket statements even when proof was provided like saying things on the Salaf that they practices weak references, or the proof that they practiced is weak references (all of which authentic proof was provided to prove opposite).

[CoallyPax]

Ihthiyaath HERE is for Fadhaa'il (Virtues) NOTHING else - NOT for Food NOT for Transactions! - you my brother are mixing everything up.

I see Ihthiyaat as a precautionary measure for practicing WEAK FADHAAI'L - but for the issue of Laylah al-Bara'ah i deem this as authentic anyway because:

[1] Many Ahadith have been narrated, some have been authenticated to the level of Sahih whilst others have been authenticated to the level of Hasan by many capable Scholars of the past.

[2] All these Ahadith put together can be used as Shawahid - Supoorting narratiions (as even mentioned by a few Salafi / Ahle Hadith Scholars).

[3] Some of the Scholars from the Salaf practiced this night in solitutde (Imam Shafi'i, Hafidh Ibn Rajab quoted many), which is also proof for the Muslimeen as mentioned by Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah that the Salaf are Hujjah (an Usool).

[4] It is a night of virtue, EVEN IF it was weak one can still practice it for Ihthiyaath as many Scholars have mentioned that WEAK FADHAA'IL can be practiced.



This is the hadith from Bukhari:

قَالَ النَّبِيُّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ الْحَلَالُ بَيِّنٌ وَالْحَرَامُ بَيِّنٌ وَبَيْنَهُمَا أُمُورٌ مُشْتَبِهَةٌ فَمَنْ تَرَكَ مَا شُبِّهَ عَلَيْهِ مِنْ الْإِثْمِ كَانَ لِمَا اسْتَبَانَ أَتْرَكَ وَمَنْ اجْتَرَأَ عَلَى مَا يَشُكُّ فِيهِ مِنْ الْإِثْمِ أَوْشَكَ أَنْ يُوَاقِعَ مَا اسْتَبَانَ وَالْمَعَاصِي حِمَى اللَّهِ مَنْ يَرْتَعْ حَوْلَ الْحِمَى يُوشِكُ أَنْ يُوَاقِعَهُ

And this is it's Sharh from Fath al-Bari Li Ibn Hajr al-'Asqalani:

http://hadith.al-islam.com/Page.aspx...=33&TOCID=1295

قَوْلُهُ : ( الْحَلَالُ بَيِّنٌ وَالْحَرَامُ بَيِّنٌ . . . إِلَخْ ) فِيهِ تَقْسِيمُ الْأَحْكَامِ إِلَى ثَلَاثَةِ أَشْيَاءَ ، وَهُوَ صَحِيحٌ ؛ لِأَنَّ الشَّيْءَ إِمَّا أَنْ يُنَصَّ عَلَى طَلَبِهِ مَعَ الْوَعِيدِ عَلَى تَرْكِهِ ، أَوْ يُنَصَّ عَلَى تَرْكِهِ مَعَ الْوَعِيدِ عَلَى فِعْلِهِ ، أَوْ لَا يُنَصَّ عَلَى وَاحِدٍ مِنْهُمَا . فَالْأَوَّلُ الْحَلَالُ الْبَيِّنُ ، وَالثَّانِي الْحَرَامُ الْبَيِّنُ . فَمَعْنَى قَوْلِهِ : " الْحَلَالُ بَيِّنٌ " أَيْ : لَا يَحْتَاجُ إِلَى بَيَانِهِ وَيَشْتَرِكُ فِي مَعْرِفَتِهِ كُلُّ أَحَدٍ ، وَالثَّالِثُ مُشْتَبِهٌ لِخَفَائِهِ فَلَا يُدْرَى هَلْ هُوَ حَلَالٌ أَوْ حَرَامٌ ، وَمَا كَانَ هَذَا سَبِيلَهُ يَنْبَغِي اجْتِنَابُهُ ؛ لِأَنَّهُ إِنْ كَانَ فِي نَفْسِ الْأَمْرِ حَرَامًا فَقَدْ بَرِئَ مِنْ تَبِعَتِهَا وَإِنْ كَانَ حَلَالًا فَقَدْ أُجِرَ عَلَى تَرْكِهَا بِهَذَا الْقَصْدِ ؛ لِأَنَّ الْأَصْلَ فِي الْأَشْيَاءِ مُخْتَلَفٌ فِيهِ حَظْرًا وَإِبَاحَةً ، وَالْأَوَّلَانِ قَدْ يُرَدَّانِ جَمِيعًا فَإِنْ عُلِمَ الْمُتَأَخِّرُ مِنْهُمَا وَإِلَّا فَهُوَ مِنْ حَيِّزِ الْقَسَمِ الثَّالِثِ ، وَسَأَذْكُرُ مَا فُسِّرَتْ بِهِ الشُّبْهَةُ بَعْدَ هَذَا الْبَابِ ، وَالْمُرَادُ أَنَّهَا مُشْتَبِهَةٌ عَلَى بَعْضِ النَّاسِ بِدَلِيلِ قَوْلِهِ - عَلَيْهِ السَّلَامُ - : لَا يَعْلَمُهَا كَثِيرٌ مِنَ النَّاسِ ، وَقَدْ تَقَدَّمَ الْكَلَامُ عَلَى ذَلِكَ وَعَلَى هَذَا الْحَدِيثِ مُسْتَوْفًى فِي " بَابِ فَضْلِ مَنِ اسْتَبْرَأَ لِدِينِهِ وَعِرْضِهِ " مِنْ كِتَابِ الْإِيمَانِ ، وَقَدْ تَوَارَدَ أَكْثَرُ الْأَئِمَّةِ الْمُخَرِّجِينَ لَهُ عَلَى إِيرَادِهِ فِي كِتَابِ الْبُيُوعِ ؛ لِأَنَّ الشُّبْهَةَ فِي الْمُعَامَلَاتِ تَقَعُ فِيهَا كَثِيرًا ، وَلَهُ تَعَلُّقٌ أَيْضًا بِالنِّكَاحِ وَبِالصَّيْدِ وَالذَّبَائِحِ وَالْأَطْعِمَةِ وَالْأَشْرِبَةِ وَغَيْرِ ذَلِكَ مِمَّا لَا يَخْفَى وَاللَّهُ الْمُسْتَعَانُ . وَفِيهِ دَلِيلٌ عَلَى جَوَازِ الْجَرْحِ وَالتَّعْدِيلِ قَالَهُ الْبَغَوِيُّ فِي " شَرْحِ السُّنَّةِ " وَاسْتَنْبَطَ مِنْهُ بَعْضُهُمْ مَنْعَ إِطْلَاقِ الْحَلَالِ وَالْحَرَامِ عَلَى مَا لَا نَصَّ فِيهِ ؛ لِأَنَّهُ مِنْ جُمْلَةِ مَا لَمْ يَسْتَبِنْ ، لَكِنَّ قَوْلَهُ - صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ - : لَا يَعْلَمُهَا كَثِيرٌ مِنَ النَّاسِ يُشْعِرُ بِأَنَّ مِنْهُمْ مَنْ يَعْلَمُهَا . وَقَوْلُهُ : فِي هَذِهِ الطَّرِيقِ " اسْتَبَانَ " أَيْ : ظَهَرَ تَحْرِيمُهُ . وَقَوْلُهُ : " أَوْشَكَ " أَيْ : قَرُبَ ؛ لِأَنَّ مُتَعَاطِيَ الشُّبُهَاتِ قَدْ يُصَادِفُ الْحَرَامَ وَإِنْ لَمْ يَتَعَمَّدْهُ أَوْ يَقَعْ فِيهِ لِاعْتِيَادِهِ التَّسَاهُلَ .

And here is Imam al-Nawawi's Sharh of the hadith in Muslim:

http://hadith.al-islam.com/Page.aspx...D=34&TOCID=718

( الْحَلَالُ بَيِّنٌ وَالْحَرَامُ بَيِّنٌ ) فَمَعْنَاهُ : أَنَّ الْأَشْيَاءَ ثَلَاثَةُ أَقْسَامٍ : حَلَالٌ بَيِّنٌ وَاضِحٌ لَا يَخْفَى حِلُّهُ ، كَالْخُبْزِ وَالْفَوَاكِهِ وَالزَّيْتِ وَالْعَسَلِ وَالسَّمْنِ وَلَبَنِ مَأْكُولِ اللَّحْمِ وَبَيْضِهِ وَغَيْرِ ذَلِكَ مِنَ الْمَطْعُومَاتِ ، وَكَذَلِكَ الْكَلَامُ وَالنَّظَرُ وَالْمَشْيُ وَغَيْرُ ذَلِكَ مِنَ التَّصَرُّفَاتِ ، فِيهَا حَلَالٌ بَيِّنٌ وَاضِحٌ لَا شَكَّ فِي حِلِّهِ

وَأَمَّا الْحَرَامُ الْبَيِّنُ فَكَالْخَمْرِ وَالْخِنْزِيرِ وَالْمَيْتَةِ وَالْبَوْلِ وَالدَّمِ الْمَسْفُوحِ ، وَكَذَلِكَ الزِّنَا وَالْكَذِبُ وَالْغِيبَةُ وَالنَّمِيمَةُ وَالنَّظَرُ إِلَى الْأَجْنَبِيَّةِ وَأَشْبَاهُ ذَلِكَ

وَأَمَّا الْمُشْتَبِهَاتُ فَمَعْنَاهُ أَنَّهَا لَيْسَتْ بِوَاضِحَةِ الْحِلِّ وَلَا الْحُرْمَةِ ، فَلِهَذَا لَا يَعْرِفُهَا كَثِيرٌ مِنَ النَّاسِ ، وَلَا يَعْلَمُونَ حُكْمَهَا ، وَأَمَّا الْعُلَمَاءُ فَيَعْرِفُونَ حُكْمَهَا بِنَصٍّ أَوْ قِيَاسٍ أَوِ اسْتِصْحَابٍ أَوْ غَيْرِ ذَلِكَ ، فَإِذَا تَرَدَّدَ الشَّيْءُ بَيْنَ الْحِلِّ وَالْحُرْمَةِ ، وَلَمْ يَكُنْ فِيهِ نَصٌّ وَلَا إِجْمَاعٌ اجْتَهَدَ فِيهِ الْمُجْتَهِدُ ، فَأَلْحَقَهُ بِأَحَدِهِمَا بِالدَّلِيلِ الشَّرْعِيِّ فَإِذَا أَلْحَقَهُ بِهِ صَارَ حِلًّا ، وَقَدْ يَكُونُ غَيْرَ خَالٍ عَنِ الِاحْتِمَالِ الْبَيِّنِ ، فَيَكُونُ الْوَرَعُ تَرْكَهُ

The hadith your using is not for the purpose of not practicing weak Ahadith, it is for the Halal and Haram in life and the doubtful matters in between, like food, transactions and business etc. Are you making DIY Usool as you go along?



Fine everyone can be put forward either case, but that still doesnt mean you give blanket statements even when proof was provided like saying things on the Salaf that they practices weak references, or the proof that they practiced is weak references (all of which authentic proof was provided to ptove opposite).

ive clearly stated what i had to say and you still havent got it. so im not going to repeat. and the hadith i stated encompasses everything in religion. ihtiyaat here is for doing something that may be bid'ah or may be not. i choose not to do it. you choose to do it because you feel the virtue may be missed. i choose not to do it because i believe while seeking the virtue i may have my name written down among ahlul bid'ah. wallahu alam.
and i dont understand arabic so i hope u understand that when you say something is hasan/saheeh/daeef i take it as such, not anything in arabic.

[CoallyPax]

incidentally do you have fath al bari in english?

[LfYaRf1S]

ive clearly stated what i had to say and you still havent got it. so im not going to repeat. and the hadith i stated encompasses everything in religion.

And you clearly have no sort of understanding at all.

The hadith you posted is not in REFERENCE to NOT acting upon WEAK Ahadith, please read the Sharh.

It is not for WEAK FADHA'IL, it is clear you have not read what the 'Ulama have written on the acting upon weak hadith of virtues for Ihthiyaath.

ihtiyaat here is for doing something that may be bid'ah or may be not. but you previously stated:

and i agree it is not a bid'ah. i later realized i shd have stated it when i quoted the other person. its 'doubtful'. sorry for that. So you are agree that it is NOT Bid'ah, so dont worry.

i choose not to do it. you choose to do it because you feel the virtue may be missed. i choose not to do it because i believe while seeking the virtue i may have my name written down among ahlul bid'ah. wallahu alam. So you are saying that the likes of the Scholars of the Salaf (Imam Shafi'i and those names mentioned by Imam ibn Rajab) might be from the Ahl al-Bid'ah? i already told you, the Salaf are Hujjah (proof); so why on earth would you think that you would be written amongst mubtadi'un?

and i dont understand arabic so i hope u understand that when you say something is hasan/saheeh/daeef i take it as such, not anything in arabic. Then maybe there is a lesson for you, drop your silly arguments and go and learn something that maybe beneficial for you.

All you have done is make accusations on the Salaf (i dont want to quote you as i have done it many times), throw proof of the actions of the Salaf under the carpet like it is not Hujjah (when it is) and made your own DIY Usool as have gone along.

Seriously drop it and dont dig yourself a deeper hole.

[LfYaRf1S]

incidentally do you have fath al bari in english?

Nope, Fath al-Bari is in Arabic:

فتح الباري شرح صحيح البخاري
http://hadith.al-islam.com/Loader.as...=194&BookID=33

[CoallyPax]

And you clearly have no sort of understanding at all.

The hadith you posted is not in REFERENCE to NOT acting upon WEAK Ahadith, please read the Sharh.

It is not for WEAK FADHA'IL, it is clear you have not read what the 'Ulama have written on the acting upon weak hadith of virtues for Ihthiyaath.



but you previously stated:



So you are agree that it is NOT Bid'ah, so dont worry.



So you are saying that the likes of the Scholars of the Salaf (Imam Shafi'i and those names mentioned by Imam ibn Rajab) might be from the Ahl al-Bid'ah? i already told you, the Salaf are Hujjah (proof); so why on earth would you think that you would be written amongst mubtadi'un?



Then maybe there is a lesson for you, drop your silly arguments and go and learn something that maybe beneficial for you.

All you have done is make accusations on the Salaf (i dont want to quote you as i have done it many times), throw proof of the actions of the Salaf under the carpet like it is not Hujjah (when it is) and made your own DIY Usool as have gone along.

Seriously drop it and dont dig yourself a deeper hole.

i have not made an accusation on the salaf. this is a very serious allegation and you should watch what you are saying.
just because i dont agree with Imam shafi'i and others does not i mean i will call them waht you have done so.
you have your definiton of ihtiyaat i have mine. the actions of salaf are hujjah. but only when there actions are proven by authentic hadith. you quote weak hadith and i dont accept them. no blame on the salaf. but i have respect for your point of view and i think there we have a general disagreement, nothing wrong with that.
however, i have tried to keep this 'discussion' respectful but you take every opportunity to accuse me of slandering the salaf just to prove your point. when in reality its far from the truth. since you are interested in personal remarks and uncalled-for judgement only i think there is no point in this 'discussion'.

Allah Hafiz

[WhiliaStelt]

@Al Zayn

Bro, He wasn't critisizing the Salaf, if you read more carefully his sentence you will notice he was mentioning the action on weak hadith, not action of salaf.

@mh16388

Bro, He wasn't intentionally accusing you, the wording of your statement is as such that it is easily misunderstood. When i quickly read it at first i too misunderstood what you meant.

This is all a misunderstanding. be cool brothers

[LfYaRf1S]

I find it very hilarious that when the 'Salafis' / 'Ahle Hadiths' want proof for something they will say: "what was the view of the Salaf"? or: "Did the Salaf do it"? and now for some reason our confused brother has chucked utilising Salaf as our Proof through the window!!! (obviously not blaming Salafis - rather the brother) - first he does DIY Usool and now NO Usool.

Brother MH, to keep a discussion respectful you do not say things that are reprimandable - otherwise be quiet.

Il post a reminder:

....you have your definiton of ihtiyaat i have mine. the actions of salaf are hujjah.....

I simply dont want YOUR definition - like i said READ the Sharh of the hadith - the doubtful is referring to Business, Buying, Selling, Food, Drink etc.

But you have made your own Usool, if it is not bring me Quotes.

Furthermore majority of the Scholars of the Madhaahib agree one can act upon weak Hadith (only for virtues) for Ihthiyaat, the precaution to stay away is only for doubtfull matters relating to the above i mentioned previously.

like i said drop it and move on.

[CoallyPax]

aoa,

i had a look at how exactly weak ahadith can be used for fazail and it seems i was mistaken about shabeeh baraat on those accounts where there are several weak ahadith narrating the same incident. one can either observe the night thinking it is virtuous or one may observe it thinking its not. either side will be wrong to condemn the other party.
and i apologize for any rude comments.

AH