[BuyNetHosting]

our ulama are our leaders, the ulama should be centrel figures and pillers for the community, but are the ulama fulfulling this task? why not? is it that the masjids do not pay the ulama enough money so they have to get other jobs, take on extra tuition whereby they cannot give enough time for the masjids and community because of having to earn money to live a minimul/comfortable life.

i know masjids that pay the ulama £5 per salat they lead, and between £50-£75 for teaching madarasa, and full time imams geting between £100-£200, is that enough for people who are the most important people in our communities?

[DrBrightonone]

well they should be getting paid much more then that, atleast enought for them to make a living. however they will be rewarded heavily in their next life.

[Bill-Watson]

they should get enough to take care of themselves and their families without having to worry about financial matters so they can devote their time to the community.

even if their wage was doubled a whole community would easily manage to cover it.

if there are a thousand members at a mosque all they would have to pay is an extra 10p per week to give the imam a £100 raise!

10p!

[WomanBreast40356]

here where i live they get good money, actually very good money.

last time i looked it was about 23-24k i think, plus they teach in the madressa.

if you dont pay you cant recruit the new age scholars.

[allaboutauto.us]

well they should be getting paid much more then that, atleast enought for them to make a living. however they will be rewarded heavily in their next life.

Assalamalikum wa rahamtullahi wa barakatuhu

It is almost the low wages that has made the Imams to be dependent on different sources..
Theirs is a very good position in Islam so they have to be taken care of well

[swwatch]

here where i live they get good money, actually very good money.

last time i looked it was about 23-24k i think, plus they teach in the madressa.

if you dont pay you cant recruit the new age scholars.

Wow, they definately pay well round your neck of the woods!

[Vmysobfi]

Give them a good wage but then they should be busy throughout the day doing various things in the community.

Not just salaah and madrassa but community projects,awareness sessions on various topics etc.

[Bill-Watson]

Give them a good wage but then they should be busy throughout the day doing various things in the community.

Not just salaah and madrassa but community projects,awareness sessions on various topics etc.

if they are getting paid a wage then they should put the hours in the same way a normal worker would in a job.

[Vmysobfi]

if they are getting paid a wage then they should put the hours in the same way a normal worker would in a job.

Thats my point bruv.

What most Imams do is lead salah and do their shift in madrassa and then complain of a low wage. Wheres the rest of the day gone?

Give them a fair wage but then the day should be utilised just a normal employed worker in a company would be.

This can pnly be done if everyone pitches in with ideas on how best that time should be used. You could have various classes for the elderly,various awareness sessions for parents on various topics,a counselling service etc and also awareness and information sessions for non muslims,where they can come into masjids,talk to Imams and air questions etc.

Fact is alot of Imams cannot be bothered with that. That takes proper dedication,and one also needs to become 'ajiz'. It also requires excellent english and presentation skills along with other things.

having said that,there are some excellent young Imams who are doing amazing work in their communities and they should be paid accordingly.

[swwatch]

Give them a fair wage but then the day should be utilised just a normal employed worker in a company would be.

That's the point. They aren't getting a fair wage!

on the other hand, there are some Imams who prefer to have a low wage and then are on 'low income' so claim off the state.

[Vmysobfi]

Give them a fair wage but then the day should be utilised just a normal employed worker in a company would be.

That's the point. They aren't getting a fair wage!

on the other hand, there are some Imams who prefer to have a low wage and then are on 'low income' so claim off the state.

Thats another discussion all together.

How many work a normal job and do Imamat and madrassa but do not tell the government agencies of the job as imam and madrassa thus claiming more money from benefits.

I know enough scholars who work a proper 9-5 job,and then in the evening teach in the madrassa but do not show the hours/wage for the teaching thus basically defrauding the system.

so that also needs addressing. Funny in't it how that never gets a mention in lectures,about not comminting benefit fraud etc etc.

and then people complain about the lack of barakah............

[WomanBreast40356]

Thats another discussion all together.

How many work a normal job and do Imamat and madrassa but do not tell the government agencies of the job as imam and madrassa thus claiming more money from benefits.

I know enough scholars who work a proper 9-5 job,and then in the evening teach in the madrassa but do not show the hours/wage for the teaching thus basically defrauding the system.

so that also needs addressing. Funny in't it how that never gets a mention in lectures,about not comminting benefit fraud etc etc.

and then people complain about the lack of barakah............

i think there is more to it than that....

anyways lets not start with this slandering already.

the reason why they dont declare that income is most probably your local mosque is a registered charity. im not too privvy on the specifics but i do know that its actually the mosque that tells them to accept cash in hand because it makes it easy for them, voluntary work with goodwill gestures.

also some, ok rather very few teachers dont do it for the money, they just teach because they can and want to, to them the money is a well and truely a good will gesture.

anyway its not as clear cut as some of you guys are making out. im not saying your totally off the mark as some people do exist like you claim, but some also dont.

[Vmysobfi]

i think there is more to it than that....

anyways lets not start with this slandering already.

the reason why they dont declare that income is most probably your local mosque is a registered charity. im not too privvy on the specifics but i do know that its actually the mosque that tells them to accept cash in hand because it makes it easy for them, voluntary work with goodwill gestures.

also some, ok rather very few teachers dont do it for the money, they just teach because they can and want to, to them the money is a well and truely a good will gesture.

anyway its not as clear cut as some of you guys are making out. im not saying your totally off the mark as some people do exist like you claim, but some also dont.

Take the money out altogether and see who remains........

We both know it is not a 'goodwill gesture' but a actual wage for hours worked. we both know that. You can make it technical all you want,but on the ground level,its a wage. If it was a goodwill gesture,they should still decalre it and let the authorities decide.

By the way, a teacher whose only income is from the madrassa is very different to a person who works 9-5 with a good salary and even then goes to teach in a maktab in the evening and claiming that wage too.

Hafiz Patel sahib gets very angry at those scholars who have a regular well paid 9-5 job and then teach in a madrassa and claim the wage.

if the madrassa is your sole income,fine,but when one is leading a comfortable life just with ones 9-5 job and then takes money from teaching at madrassa,one wonders wether money has become the goal.

anyway,rant over.

[BuyNetHosting]

my point of view is that they should be paid well for two reasons

1) that they can live i comfortable life and so they dont need to claim benefits

2) and this is the main reason and intention so they can devote time and effort to the masjid, not just leading prayers and teaching makhtab but also give time throughout the day to the community,(counselling/advice/youth work/teaching/involvement in schools etc).

a shout going out to the ulama(especially molana e-teacher), please can you comment, what's your views (well we all know what that is ) but it would still be good to know how much you think you deserve, and how much time would you give to the community.

[Mumeseest]

Not just salaah and madrassa but community projects,awareness sessions on various topics etc.

Mufti abu bakr of greece, done all this work and didnt get any money from the mosque but work near the mosque by his own. Now through his activity, they have bought a building with 800,000 euro paid cash!

This is one of the result of khulusiyat masha Allah. Now the mosque commity even ready to pay him in amount of above 1500 euro!

In some cases people may see that imam become banksters(a new word is invented in recent economy crisis for the manager , who get money like gangsters but the company is going down) but no good activity is present in that area.

In my opinion, If an imam is from sub continent and single they may pay him bit lower than the imam whose family lives in sub continent. An imam may get more whose family lives in europe.An imam who was grown up in europe may get same amount like the imam from sub continent. But an imam who was grown up in europe and also has family in europe, he may get the most highest amount from all these catagories. People may differ in some catagory.

[Hoijdxvh]

if they are getting paid a wage then they should put the hours in the same way a normal worker would in a job.

What we fail to realise is that Imaamat is just as good a full time work. to us it seems the imam just comes and leasds salah thats all. but the Imam is actully tied up between the times of salah as he can't do anything else between that time. ask the Imams and they will tell you, becasue of the Imamat they cannot go or do anything else.
however, such imams who are fultime should give more time to the masjid where they are accecaple to the public for their needs.

The problem we have is that we regard Imam to be just for salah whereas the ulama are Imams of the community and this is a full time job. in the past the ulama would get the best pay from the baitul maal, due to which they could be free for the service of deen. but now when they are payed the least they have to look else where for livlihood and due to which cannot give the time for service of deen.

if our masaajid were to pay them well, they would not need to work elsewhere, hence they should not have any reason not to be serving the community.

[Anfester]

our ulama are our leaders, the ulama should be centrel figures and pillers for the community, but are the ulama fulfulling this task? why not? is it that the masjids do not pay the ulama enough money so they have to get other jobs, take on extra tuition whereby they cannot give enough time for the masjids and community because of having to earn money to live a minimul/comfortable life.

i know masjids that pay the ulama £5 per salat they lead, and between £50-£75 for teaching madarasa, and full time imams geting between £100-£200, is that enough for people who are the most important people in our communities?

The situation is upside-down and totally lopsided

This is a Summary of what I proposed to Darul-uloom Bury Administration and also posted on SF in detail (somewhere).

Young graduates should be mentored into choosing a path where they can successfully and with dignity meet the needs of their family and how to integrate and work within their communities. A young Alim graduating has the same issues as a young university graduate i.e. find a wife, find a means to sustain family etc.
When Young Ulama start teaching at Madrasas or become Imams and get paid it causes the following problems:

1) They are paid pittance (less then minimum wage) which isn’t enough for them to sustain themselves and family which makes them look elsewhere. The pay is pittance but the time is real and since there are being PAID the committee and community treat them as employees, they don’t look at the amount but simply at the fact that they are being paid

2) The only viable option available to Ulama is to do PRIVATE tuition (teaching Qur’aan) and when you look at the people who employ Ulama are Doctors, Professionals etc and these are usually the people who need Islaah (reformation) but by paying AGAIN they treat Ulama as employees and the objective of Islaah if not completely lost, it is diminished

3) Another option is for Ulama to go to bed with HAJJ & UMRAH travel agents and that again either diminishes the respect and credibility of Ulama or MANY ULAMA do Hajj-e-Badal for years on end and again people treat them like employees because they have paid for the Hajj expenses

4) Pay compromises your stance! When you need your job you take a back seat on many affairs and OUR ULAMA do take a back seat to the committee on a number of issues!

When brothers and sisters at SF quote the permissibility of Ulama getting paid, they overlook the circumstances of the past, our Ulama were respected and looked up to as role models…right now like it or not becoming an Alim is the least choice for Career, ask most young people.

My detailed discussions with Darul-uloom Bury as usual fell on deaf ears as I am neither a Gujrati nor a Maulana nor knowledgable nor Bayt to the right Mashaykh, just a Muppett Pakistani! What do I know about community affairs?

It is a fixable scenario like many other issues in UK.

[WomanBreast40356]

Take the money out altogether and see who remains........

We both know it is not a 'goodwill gesture' but a actual wage for hours worked. we both know that. You can make it technical all you want,but on the ground level,its a wage. If it was a goodwill gesture,they should still decalre it and let the authorities decide.

By the way, a teacher whose only income is from the madrassa is very different to a person who works 9-5 with a good salary and even then goes to teach in a maktab in the evening and claiming that wage too.

Hafiz Patel sahib gets very angry at those scholars who have a regular well paid 9-5 job and then teach in a madrassa and claim the wage.

if the madrassa is your sole income,fine,but when one is leading a comfortable life just with ones 9-5 job and then takes money from teaching at madrassa,one wonders wether money has become the goal.

anyway,rant over.

i know that and you know that, money is a HUGE factor in this.

i did say very few teachers dont work for the money also so im not completely biased.

Take the wages away and you might see some remain though some will probably go.

Bottom line is they have skills we dont, we are not willing to do it for free, so i guess they think the same too, so if they treat it as a part time cash in hand job then the purpose is being fulfilled i.e kids getting a religious education but the ikhlas is missing, thats between Allah and them.

We are no different, we wouldnt teach maktab for free, if we would then no aalims would be employed in the lower classes.

[emupsMaispubs]

What we fail to realise is that Imaamat is just as good a full time work. to us it seems the imam just comes and leasds salah thats all. but the Imam is actully tied up between the times of salah as he can't do anything else between that time. ask the Imams and they will tell you, becasue of the Imamat they cannot go or do anything else.
however, such imams who are fultime should give more time to the masjid where they are accecaple to the public for their needs.

true... because of this reason both my brothers are unable to visit my parents much, even this last Eed (they had to lead Eed salaah in their masjid). It takes lots of sacrifice, especially when you're living in a different city/province from the rest of your family.

1) They are paid pittance (less then minimum wage) which isn’t enough for them to sustain themselves and family which makes them look elsewhere. The pay is pittance but the time is real and since there are being PAID the committee and community treat them as employees, they don’t look at the amount but simply at the fact that they are being paid

This reminds me of the first Imam that my masjid had, back when I was very young. He was being paid an extremely low wage, so he was forced to work in the flea market on the weekends. The community had a big hoo-haa as to how he could work in so unprestigious a place, with non mahram around. My dad got really angry, and told them the same was the case with their offices. Besides, that moulana had family back home (ie wife and kids) he had to sponsor, and he obviously couldn't do that with the meagre wage he received from his loving community. though I hear now he has a wonderful position, far away from his first job place.

[Badyalectlawl]

It's hard to fix a figure on the salary for an Imam because it can vary because of many reasons. But many Masjids don't even pay the Imams minimum wages. Imams are usually at the bottom of the pay scale in most communities.

One of the greatest harms of not paying the Imams well is that the brightest minds of the Ummah will not like to pursue a career as an Islamic scholar because of the low wages. Usually, the parents who send their children are from religious backgrounds. It's very hard to find a student in a Darul Uloom whose family is not religious. So when the smartest youth of the Ummah are not turning towards Islamic scholar degrees because of low wages, then the Ummah loses out.

So the blame lies on Masjid committees who can spends thousands and millions on building Masjids and competing with other Masjids to make theirs look better, but who wont pay the Imams decent salaries.

The harm is that, many Imams and scholars at least in the UK are taking up careers in prisons and hospitals as chaplains because they get paid ten times more than what a Masjid will pay. Also, as chaplains, they don't have to deal with all the politics which goes on in the Masjids and they don't have to deal with Fussaq and Fujjar committee members and presidents. So a lot of the blame lies on the Masjid committees and many of you, for not trying to join your local Masjid committees. The only way things can change is when young people involve themselves in Masjid committees which usually doesn't happen. So the problems never go away and they perpetuate when the same old old people run things.

At the same time, Masjids in the US usually pay much more than Masjids in any other country. There are more professionals here in the US as compared to other countries. On Eid day there are probably about 100 doctors in my congregation which includes both the genders. And the Masjid where I'm Imam at, it's considered to be an average sized Masjid.

Bottom line is that an Imam should at least be in the middle of the pay scale of the community he is serving. But usually, the Imam is at the bottom of the pay scale but I don't think any Imam will complain openly and publicly about it. They are not in it for the money because they could easily make more money elsewhere but the worst thing is when they are paid the lowest and then on top of that, committee members treat them very badly and that is what an Imam will never tolerate. They can tolerate low wages but they can never tolerate being disrespected for no reason or being mistreated.