[attishina]

Assalamu alaykum my dear brothers and sisters.

I would like to advise you that the shaytaan has attacked the religion of Islam in the guise of bid'ah hasanah. apparently some people have exhausted all the sunnahs and are so bored of them, they thought thee would invent their own forms of worship, which have no basis in the qur'an, hadeeth or understanding of the sahaba.

I would like to start this advice by bringing forth a well known statement of imam nawawi that is unfortunately being misused to justify "bid'ah hasanah". Afterwards I will provide imam nawawis own explanation of what he meant by good bid'ah. For those of you who simply want to follow the haqh, rather than sticking to what suits your desires regardless of its status in the eyes of Allah, please read with an open mind. I know many of you reading this already dont agree with good innovations in worship but please read on just to stregnthen your conviction in this issue andenable you to have some responses to the extreme sufis who unfortunately give many of you a bad name, simply because you go under the same umbrella of tassawuf.

Here is the original statement that is often cited:

"His (sallallaahu alayhi wasallam's) saying (كل بدعة ضلالة), "Every innovation is misguidance." This is a generalisation which has been qualified (by other texts), and the intent behind it is the majority of innovations (not all of them). The scholars of the language have said that [bidah] is: "Every thing that is performed without any prior example (precedent)." The Scholars have said bidah is five types, obligatory, recommended, unlawful, disliked and permitted.

And supporting what we have said is the saying of Umar Ibn al-Khattab (radiallaahu anhu) regarding Tarawih, "What an excellent innovation this is." And that the generalization in his saying "Every innovation" is supported by the word "Every (كل)" does not prevent from that it is subject to being qualified such as what occurs in His saying (تُدَمِّرُ كُلَّ شَيْءٍ) "Destroying every single thing (46:25)" [Meaning, even though "every (كُلَّ)" was used, not everything was actually destroyed, hence it is a generalization that is qualified with exceptions]"


unfortunately this quote is deceptive. it is taken from sharh saheeh muslim under the hadeeth every innovation is misguiadance... what you are failed to be informed of is that in the actual arabic text there is a whole chunk of writing smack bang in the middle of this text that is conveniently left out. here is the full text:

"His (sallallaahu alayhi wasallam's) saying (كل بدعة ضلالة), "Every innovation is misguidance." This is a generalisation which has been qualified (by other texts), and the intent behind it is the majority of innovations (not all of them). The scholars of the language have said that [bidah] is: "Every thing that is performed without any prior example (precedent)." The Scholars have said bidah is five types, obligatory, recommended, unlawful, disliked and permitted.

So from the obligatory [innovations] is organization and composition of the evidences of the Mutakallimin for refuting the atheists and innovators and whatever resembles that. And from the recommended is authoring of the books of knowledge and building schools and hospices and other than that. And from the permitted is (taking pleasure through) indulging in the variety of foods and other than that. And as for the unlawful and disliked (types), then they are very clear. And I made this matter clear alongside its evidences in Tahdhib al-Asmaa wal-Lughaat and by knowing what I have mentioned, it becomes known that the hadeeth is [considered] to be a generalization that is qualified, and likewise (is the case with) whatever resembles it form the reported ahaadeeth.

And supporting what we have said is the saying of Umar Ibn al-Khattab (radiallaahu anhu) regarding Tarawih, "What an excellent innovation this is." And that the generalization in his saying "Every innovation" is supported by the word "Every (كل)" does not prevent from that it is subject to being qualified such as what occurs in His saying (تُدَمِّرُ كُلَّ شَيْءٍ) "Destroying every single thing (46:25)" [Meaning, even though "every (كُلَّ)" was used, not everything was actually destroyed, hence it is a generalization that is qualified with exceptions]"


so when we talk of "good innovation", we are only talking of innovation from a linguistic perspective, e.g. hospitals etc. In the shariah, the blame worthy bid'ah that we such as issue with, is innovsting new acts of worship into the religion which cannot be observed from the beloved rasuulullahi salalllahu alayhi wasslam. THey accuse us of not loving the prophet, yet who is the one who claims to have some better practices than the prophet sallallahu alayhi wassalam, and who is simply asking the muslim ummah to follow what the prophet did and nothing more, nothing less?

I urge everyone here to take a stance against the likes of innovated acts of worship that have no basis in the shariah. If I started jumping up and down and doing cartwheels and told you I was worshipping Allah, would you say "SubhanAllah!!!" or would you say"you have departed from the sunnah of the prophet sallahu alayhi wassalam"?

How many of us even read suratul kahf on a friday? Why busy ourselves with innovation when we have the beautiful sunnah?

[attishina]

Over generalisation does much injustice to islamic sceineces. This is yet another example. According to you Umar (RAD) was deviant. MAshallah you seem to have reached the level of understanding most scholars haven't reached.
Doing ijtihad is also a deviant.

how is umar deviant? didnt you read my post? I said whoever invents new acts of worship have committed innovation. what new act of worship did umar invent?

[JaK_MarkoV_Pi]

deoband.org search for concept of bid'ah.

[Kafuuil]

Whats your opinion about the additional Azan during Juma'ah introduced by Uthman(ra).?

Its certainly an innovation.

[attishina]

I havent researched the issue. InshAllah I will. But even if Uthman brought this in, with no basis in the sunnah whatsoever, which I highly doubt, then the prophet salallahu alayhi wassalam said follow my sunnah and the sunnah of the khulafah rashidah so this doesnt present any sort of problem for me because I consider uthman to be someone who's example should be followed in and of itself

[Anfester]

There is no such thing as Bid'ah Hasana

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...-Bidah-Hasanah

It is reprehensible to call a "Bid'ah" as good since there is nothing good in a "Bid'ah".



P.S: Shaf'ae Madhab disagrees on the matter

[Kafuuil]

I havent researched the issue. InshAllah I will. But even if Uthman brought this in, with no basis in the sunnah whatsoever, which I highly doubt, then the prophet salallahu alayhi wassalam said follow my sunnah and the sunnah of the khulafah rashidah so this doesnt present any sort of problem for me because I consider uthman to be someone who's example should be followed in and of itself

Alhamdulillah, i m relieved to hear that.

Bro, i have small advice, Let go of the differences in opinion that exist at present. If the difference in opinion of the 4 Madhabs have been tackled very nicely by us, then we should continue that for these issues too. Especially since we are Laymen.

Also Ramadan is around the corner, Lets atleast keep away controversial topics for one Month . Remember me in your Duas.

[attishina]

There is no such thing as Bid'ah Hasana

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...-Bidah-Hasanah

It is reprehensible to call a "Bid'ah" as good since there is nothing good in a "Bid'ah".



P.S: Shaf'ae Madhab disagrees on the matter

jazak Allahu khair brother, I love you for the sake of Allah and you are definitely teh type of deobandi that I would cooperate with, learn from, benefit from, do projects with etc, inshAllah there are many more like you.

I would like to pass you on an article on one thing that you mentioned though regarding imam shaafi's position on bid'ah, please read the following artiocle:

[ clip]

Jazak Allahu Khair

[attishina]

Alhamdulillah, i m relieved to hear that.

Bro, i have small advice, Let go of the differences in opinion that exist at present. If the difference in opinion of the 4 Madhabs have been tackled very nicely by us, then we should continue that for these issues too. Especially since we are Laymen.

Also Ramadan is around the corner, Lets atleast keep away controversial topics for one Month . Remember me in your Duas.

inshAllah brother and please make dua for me.

Regarding diffrences in fiqh, Im learning teh hanafi fiqh inshAllah and have no problem with differences in fiqh.

My issues are with clear cut innovated acts of worship that have no basis on teh prophet or the salaf, kufr and shirk, these are my main issues.

However you are correct in saying that getting too much into these issues can be harmful to ones own ibaadah and iman so I will take a break for a few days, im taking my wireless router somewhere so I have no access to the net inshAllah as I have some uni work to do, a family to look after, and some ibaadah and knowledge to engage in/seek, however before i left I wanted to leave plenty of food for thought for everyone inshAllah.

Please dont misunderstand me, issues like two adhaans, with a clear cut narration from a major sahaba are not issues i believe any of us shoudl ever debate/discuss with each other, leave it to teh scholars inshAllah. But clear cut wrongs we must correct bi ithnillah. Issues like 8 or 20, rafa al yadain, loud or quiet ameen, are really issues for us to leave for eachg individual to learn from scholars inshAllah. I will be pushing hard for the salafi community to stop attacking deos on those types of issues inshAllah

[Kafuuil]

inshAllah brother and please make dua for me.

Regarding diffrences in fiqh, Im learning teh hanafi fiqh inshAllah and have no problem with differences in fiqh.

My issues are with clear cut innovated acts of worship that have no basis on teh prophet or the salaf, kufr and shirk, these are my main issues.

However you are correct in saying that getting too much into these issues can be harmful to ones own ibaadah and iman so I will take a break for a few days, im taking my wireless router somewhere so I have no access to the net inshAllah as I have some uni work to do, a family to look after, and some ibaadah and knowledge to engage in/seek, however before i left I wanted to leave plenty of food for thought for everyone inshAllah.

Please dont misunderstand me, issues like two adhaans, with a clear cut narration from a major sahaba are not issues i believe any of us shoudl ever debate/discuss with each other, leave it to teh scholars inshAllah. But clear cut wrongs we must correct bi ithnillah. Issues like 8 or 20, rafa al yadain, loud or quiet ameen, are really issues for us to leave for eachg individual to learn from scholars inshAllah. I will be pushing hard for the salafi community to stop attacking deos on those types of issues inshAllah

Alhamdulillah. I understand.
There are a lot of grey areas but Yes somethings are clear cut wrong.

May Allah give you, me and everyone the Toufeeq to do maximum Ibadah and May Allah accept it.
Ameen.

P.s I hope you have learned the following Dua: http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...-and-Magrib%29
If not please do, its a Ticket to Jannah and the best Dua for Forgiveness. Most often the best deeds in Islam are the most simple.

[Anfester]

jazak Allahu khair brother, I love you for the sake of Allah and you are definitely teh type of deobandi that I would cooperate with, learn from, benefit from, do projects with etc, inshAllah there are many more like you.

I would like to pass you on an article on one thing that you mentioned though regarding imam shaafi's position on bid'ah, please read the following artiocle:

Jazak Allahu Khair

I have no care in the world whether you cooperate with me or not as my loyalty is to the truth. In the Shaf’ae Madhab “Bida’h Hasanah” is accepted and I choose to accept the words of Shaykhul-Islam Izzud-deen Abdus-Salam (RA) & Imam Nawawi (RA) over useless SALAFI SPIN on the Shaf’ae Madhab.

I am bound by the rulings of my Madhab and there are great many Hanafi Ulama who have rejected "Bid'ah Hasanah" and I have no interest if it appeases you or not and I respect and accept what the Shaf'ae Madhab has to say on the subject but I don't follow it.

[toponlinecasinoer]

I have no care in the world whether you cooperate with me or not as my loyalty is to the truth. In the Shaf’ae Madhab “Bida’h Hasanah” is accepted and I choose to accept the words of Shaykhul-Islam Izzud-deen Abdus-Salam (RA) & Imam Nawawi (RA) over useless SALAFI SPIN on the Shaf’ae Madhab.

I am bound by the rulings of my Madhab and there are great many Hanafi Ulama who have rejected "Bid'ah Hasanah" and I have no interest if it appeases you or not and I respect and accept what the Shaf'ae Madhab has to say on the subject but I don't follow it.

Mashallah Uncle Muadh, Firm on the truth as always, May Allah reward you abundantly!

[55TRATTERENRY]

I have no care in the world whether you cooperate with me or not as my loyalty is to the truth. In the Shaf’ae Madhab “Bida’h Hasanah” is accepted and I choose to accept the words of Shaykhul-Islam Izzud-deen Abdus-Salam (RA) & Imam Nawawi (RA) over useless SALAFI SPIN on the Shaf’ae Madhab.

I am bound by the rulings of my Madhab and there are great many Hanafi Ulama who have rejected "Bid'ah Hasanah" and I have no interest if it appeases you or not and I respect and accept what the Shaf'ae Madhab has to say on the subject but I don't follow it.

This guy is really a circus charlie.his posts give the impression of someone who is abusing something.I mean,'My advice,'my research','I will cooperate','I will discuss','i'm interested in evidence'.....if this is not a paaghal than what is.he is still looking for books to learn basic fiqh but he........aghhhh never minnd

was salam

[TimoDass]

السلام عليكم و رحمة الله

1-There is no such thing as Bida'ah Hasanah, an innovation is an innovation in the Istilahi sense concerning religious practices.

2- Accusing the righteous Caliphs of innovating in religion is the saying of the ignorant as anyone with knowledge of Hadith knows that the Prophet SAWS said: "Follow my Sunnah and that of the rightly guided Caliphs after me".

3-'Uthman (ra) added the third Athan when the Islamic state became large and the city became huge so he told them to make one additional Athan in the opposing direction so that the people on the other side may hear it, otherwise they wouldn't hear it and the Athan did not change it was the same exact Athan.

4-We already replied to the Shias who claimed that 'Umar (ra) innovated in Taraweeh and Fajr Athan and Mutah marriage, these are baseless accusations.

5-A good number of renowned scholars accepted the concept of Bida'ah Hasanah especially in my Madhab but I want to be on the safe side so I don't encourage any of the Bida'ah Hasanah acts such as the Mawlid but I won't go and attack the people who participate in it.

و الصلاة و السلام على سيدنا و حبيبنا محمد و على آله و صحبه و سلم

[attishina]

I have no care in the world whether you cooperate with me or not as my loyalty is to the truth. In the Shaf’ae Madhab “Bida’h Hasanah” is accepted and I choose to accept the words of Shaykhul-Islam Izzud-deen Abdus-Salam (RA) & Imam Nawawi (RA) over useless SALAFI SPIN on the Shaf’ae Madhab.

I am bound by the rulings of my Madhab and there are great many Hanafi Ulama who have rejected "Bid'ah Hasanah" and I have no interest if it appeases you or not and I respect and accept what the Shaf'ae Madhab has to say on the subject but I don't follow it.

whoaah easy bro, read my post, I dot think its good to respond to a post saying I love you for the sake of Allah with such harsh tones and not even responding with a dua for me.

The article is quite clear, i dont accept that the shaafi madhab accepts bid'ah, I was just giving you an article to read through akh, did you read the article?

i didnt say you were trying to appease me

[attishina]

Due to time restraints and a major university deadline, inshAllah i will restrict myself to this thread. As noone seems to ever read through the resources I provide, inshAllah I myself will read through them and then have a discussion on bid'ah here inshAllah and the thread is open for all those who wish to join in inshAllah.

I will start by refuting the issue of whether the shaafi madhab allows bid'ah hasanah inshAllah.

Now can someone prove to me that the classical shaafi jurists approved of innovating any act of worship that you want into the shariah? If not, please explain what you think the jurists meant by bid'a hasanah, what its rules and regulations are, where its boundaries are, and some examples of accepted and unnacceptable bid'ah.

Please note that I am asking for a discussion, not articles, I am not interested and iwll not read articles as noone else seems to bother reading any articles I provide.

bring your proofs and I wil bring my proofs and inshAllah we will establish teh haqh.

Brother tripoly I believe the shaafi madhab doesnt approve of bid'ah so please let me demonstrate this to you inshAllah. Also Colonel Hardstone. Dont just blindly follow the statement of your contomorary scholars who say the shaafi madhab allows it, let u look into the matter and find out inshAllah.

Which repsectable classical scholars allowed bid'ah?

Do you all believe imam nawawi allowed bid'ah?

[attishina]

ive subscribed to this thread so please note that iw ill not be posting anywhere except for here in the next few weeks or so and will be checking in now and then to prove that there is no such thing as bid'ah hasanah inshAllah t'ala and that all our acts of worship must be performed by the prophet salallahu alayhi wassalam

[SkeniaInhilla]

Dawud,

For the love of Allah and for the concern of your Aakhirah, you will not be refuting any position in the Shafi'i madhhab as you don't have knowledge required to discuss the issue. In effect you will just be saying what someone else said, as do the rest of us 'awaam.

Snap man put in on the back burner, Ramadhan is just around the corner!

[attishina]

Dawud,

For the love of Allah and for the concern of your Aakhirah, you will not be refuting any position in the Shafi'i madhhab as you don't have knowledge required to discuss the issue. In effect you will just be saying what someone else said, as do the rest of us 'awaam.

Snap man put in on the back burner, Ramadhan is just around the corner!

I will be presenting evidences that Ive seen from someone else that I find compelling as I see it as a slander on imam shaafi to attribute innovation to his madhab and I see it as a ploy to try and con the masses into doing innovation. We should be defenders of the sunnah inshAllah and should hate that people invent the religion up as they go along

[Corporal White]

السلام عليكم و رحمة الله

1-There is no such thing as Bida'ah Hasanah, an innovation is an innovation in the Istilahi sense concerning religious practices.

.....

5-A good number of renowned scholars accepted the concept of Bida'ah Hasanah especially in my Madhab but I want to be on the safe side so I don't encourage any of the Bida'ah Hasanah acts such as the Mawlid but I won't go and attack the people who participate in it.

و الصلاة و السلام على سيدنا و حبيبنا محمد و على آله و صحبه و سلم

How do you reconcile your first statement with the se cond? In the first one you say that, decisively, there is no thing as a Bidah Hassanah but then in your second you acknowledge Ikhtilaaf. Given that you are not a scholar, can't you simply say that I make Taqleed of the view that there is no Bidah Hassanah, when you know ikhtilaaf exists, rather than making a declaration that a particular view is correct over another?