[Lerpenoaneway]

Anyone else have this problem? When I read the quran, and then I see the islamic world.. I don't even know how the two are related. It makes me think that I must not be getting something with islam, since it seems to produce such rotten societies. If Islam is true, why do muslim countries tend to be such crummy places? Why do they treat minorities so poorly (ex: Saudi, Egypt, Turkey, etc.) Why are they so freaking corrupt its unreal? Why can't the majority of muslim, who are good, ever rid themselves of the fundamentalist psychos? I know part of this is Saudi oil money exporting idiots, but it can't be blamed for everything.

How do you guys reconcile this? Also, it seems like there is some pretty horrific hadith out there (go to any islam bashing site), so why is doctrine being based on them? It seems like the loop hole thats letting your religion get destroyed from the inside out. I know muhammad (PBUH) said he left quran and sunnah, but only the quran was said to be uncorrupted. These are serious problems that I am having with Islam, and to be honest they are keeping me from conversion (and have been for many years).

[nicktender]

Though most of us would admit that most Muslim countries are in a poor state, your post borders on trolling.

[Slonopotam845]

Anyone else have this problem? When I read the quran, and then I see the islamic world.. I don't even know how the two are related. It makes me think that I must not be getting something with islam, since it seems to produce such rotten societies. If Islam is true, why do muslim countries tend to be such crummy places? Why do they treat minorities so poorly (ex: Saudi, Egypt, Turkey, etc.) Why are they so freaking corrupt its unreal? Why can't the majority of muslim, who are good, ever rid themselves of the fundamentalist psychos? I know part of this is Saudi oil money exporting idiots, but it can't be blamed for everything.

How do you guys reconcile this? Also, it seems like there is some pretty horrific hadith out there (go to any islam bashing site), so why is doctrine being based on them? It seems like the loop hole thats letting your religion get destroyed from the inside out. I know muhammad (PBUH) said he left quran and sunnah, but only the quran was said to be uncorrupted. These are serious problems that I am having with Islam, and to be honest they are keeping me from conversion (and have been for many years).

You've hit the nail on the head with your post. Many people who I personally know were amazed after reading the Quran. However after reading Hadith they were greatly discouraged from converting.

[addisonnicogel]

Anyone else have this problem? When I read the quran, and then I see the islamic world.. I don't even know how the two are related. It makes me think that I must not be getting something with islam, since it seems to produce such rotten societies. If Islam is true, why do muslim countries tend to be such crummy places? Why do they treat minorities so poorly (ex: Saudi, Egypt, Turkey, etc.) Why are they so freaking corrupt its unreal? Why can't the majority of muslim, who are good, ever rid themselves of the fundamentalist psychos? I know part of this is Saudi oil money exporting idiots, but it can't be blamed for everything.

How do you guys reconcile this? Also, it seems like there is some pretty horrific hadith out there (go to any islam bashing site), so why is doctrine being based on them? It seems like the loop hole thats letting your religion get destroyed from the inside out. I know muhammad (PBUH) said he left quran and sunnah, but only the quran was said to be uncorrupted. These are serious problems that I am having with Islam, and to be honest they are keeping me from conversion (and have been for many years).

If you're genuinely in search of guidance, then understand that Islamic culture IS Islam. The two go hand in hand. Your thread title is an oxymoron.

Also understand, that Islam and Allah doesn't need me or you to threaten non-conversion. It's humans who are are in need of Islam not the other way around. So your conversion or non conversion will not make an iota of difference to The Truth.

If you're genuinely in search of truth, then these "horrific ahadeeth" you talk about should be clarified under the guidance of a scholar. By all means bring them here and we can show you where your understanding is in error. Islam can never exist without ahadeeth and the Sunnah of Muhammad pbuh.

Otherwise, you're just a disingeneous liar.

[drugsprevi]

Anyone else have this problem? When I read the quran, and then I see the islamic world.. I don't even know how the two are related. It makes me think that I must not be getting something with islam, since it seems to produce such rotten societies. If Islam is true, why do muslim countries tend to be such crummy places? Why do they treat minorities so poorly (ex: Saudi, Egypt, Turkey, etc.) Why are they so freaking corrupt its unreal? Why can't the majority of muslim, who are good, ever rid themselves of the fundamentalist psychos? I know part of this is Saudi oil money exporting idiots, but it can't be blamed for everything.

How do you guys reconcile this? Also, it seems like there is some pretty horrific hadith out there (go to any islam bashing site), so why is doctrine being based on them? It seems like the loop hole thats letting your religion get destroyed from the inside out. I know muhammad (PBUH) said he left quran and sunnah, but only the quran was said to be uncorrupted. These are serious problems that I am having with Islam, and to be honest they are keeping me from conversion (and have been for many years).

That doesn't change the message of Islam and we already know that the state of the world espicially the Ummah will deteriorate as we head closer to Qiyamah.

And the way things are going we should concentrate more on how we are following Islam rather than searching for Islam in others.

Why should a hypocrite deter me from following the truth?

[Slonopotam845]

That doesn't change the message of Islam and we already know that the state of the world espicially the Ummah will deteriorate as we head closer to Qiyamah.

And the way things are going we should concentrate more on how we are following Islam rather than searching for Islam in others.

Why should a hypocrite deter me from following the truth?

I don't understand. No one is deterring you from following Islam.

[kaysions]

what are these hadith that are "so bad" could u show us?

[drugsprevi]

I don't understand. No one is deterring you from following Islam.

I am just giving an example that no matter what people are doing around you, you should not be deterred from following the truth.

[Lerpenoaneway]

By islamic culture I meant the culture of the peoples in what is typically considered the islamic world. I don't think that that culture IS islam, especially since cultures change throughout the years and islam does not change. It is disconcerting because the culture draws upon Islam, and the culture has become poor.

I see no need to post these hadith in these forums, it will just derail the topic. If you would like to see them, by all means PM me and I will send u a website.

I know God does not need me, but before I give my life/soul to a religion it makes sense to address concerns. If you can't understand that, then please leave me be.

Liar? If you think I am a liar, please let me be and don't respond to my post.

PS
Since I see someone else has asked, here is a more tasteful website with some of these hadith. If mods dont like it, by all means get rid of it.
http://www.islamrevolution.org/hadit...ameofislam.htm
My post is legitimate. If a religion is supposed to be true/good, doesn't it make sense that its followers should in general be better than the rest of the world... certainly not near the botttom? (sorry if it sounds mean, but I am being honest)

[kaysions]

Also those hadiths could be fabricated and are u sure its not a hate site they are from? i never saw any hadith that stopped me from reverting, alhamdulilh, may Allah guide u

[Slonopotam845]

what are these hadith that are "so bad" could u show us?

bukhari book 3 volume 31 hadith 170
bukhari book 5 volume 58 hadith 188
bukhari book 7 volume 62 hadith 169
bukhari book 7 volume 71 hadith 590
bukhari book 1 volume 5 hadith 277

Just a few of the many shocking Hadith I have read.

[nicktender]

PS
Since I see someone else has asked, here is a more tasteful website with some of these hadith. If mods dont like it, by all means get rid of it.
http://www.islamrevolution.org/hadit...ameofislam.htm
My post is legitimate. If a religion is supposed to be true/good, doesn't it make sense that its followers should in general be better than the rest of the world... certainly not near the botttom? (sorry if it sounds mean, but I am being honest)

There is absolutely nothing wrong or objectionable about any of the authentic ahadith referred to, if taken in context and understood properly.

BTW, most of the hadith they are "quoting" have been shortened from the versions actually seen if you look up those books.

Also referring to the sunnah form of female circumcision as "female genital mutilation" is sensationalistic garbage. The practice referred to in that hadith (which is a weak hadith, btw) is not the sort of horrific infibulation practiced by many Sub-Saharan African tribes, but rather a minor operation involving removal of part of the clitoral hood which is totally analogous to male circumcision and is not any more severe.

[Lerpenoaneway]

Thanks for the response. What is the reason for doing that?

What about these?
Ø Killing the apostate?
Sahih Bukhari 9/57:
Mohammed said, "Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him."

Ø No big deal to kill a “kafeer” (infidel)?
Sahih Bukhari 9/50:
Mohammed said, " No Muslim should be killed for killing a Kafir" (infidel)

and the contradiction listed here.
The Prophet never urinated in a standing position.(Masnad Hanbal, 6/136, 192, 213)
The Prophet urinated in a standing position. (Bukhari, 4/60, 62)

Quran: ﴾4:82) Why do they not reflect on the Quran ? If it were from other than GOD, they would have found in it many contradictions.

The earth is carried on a giant bull; when it shakes its head, then an earthquake occurs. (Ibn Katheer 2/29; 50/1

Thanks

[Slonopotam845]

There is absolutely nothing wrong or objectionable about any of the authentic ahadith referred to, if taken in context and understood properly.

BTW, most of the hadith they are "quoting" have been shortened from the versions actually seen if you look up those books.

Also referring to the sunnah form of female circumcision as "female genital mutilation" is sensationalistic garbage. The practice referred to in that hadith (which is a weak hadith, btw) is not the sort of horrific infibulation practiced by many Sub-Saharan African tribes, but rather a minor operation involving removal of part of the clitoral hood which is totally analogous to male circumcision and is not any more severe.

Actually you are wrong. Go and check the hadith for yourself (i.e the ones I posted below). How do we determine the context when there is no historical evidence to support these hadith? And in many cases, the required context would seem pretty far-fetched.

[broksaksaak]

Salam Aleykum,

You do realise you need scholars to explain these narrations, you as a layman just can't open Sahih Bukhari and start reading, a lot of it won't even make sense to you. The Scholars know all there is to know about each hadith and they explain each and every one of them in books called "Books of Shuruh".

Hadiths are much more complicated than you think.

[nicktender]

Thanks for the response. What is the reason for doing that?

What's the reason for male circumcision?

What about these?
Ø Killing the apostate?
Sahih Bukhari 9/57:
Mohammed said, "Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him."

Ø No big deal to kill a “kafeer” (infidel)?
Sahih Bukhari 9/50:
Mohammed said, " No Muslim should be killed for killing a Kafir" (infidel)

Nothing wrong with either of those.

and the contradiction listed here.
The Prophet never urinated in a standing position.(Masnad Hanbal, 6/136, 192, 213)
The Prophet urinated in a standing position. (Bukhari, 4/60, 62) In contrast to Sahih al-Bukhari, not all the narrations in Musnad Ahmad are of utmost authenticity.

Also, even if both narrations are correct, they may be transmitted by different companions of Muhammad (salallahu alayhi wa sallam) who witnessed different things.

The earth is carried on a giant bull; when it shakes its head, then an earthquake occurs. (Ibn Katheer 2/29; 50/1 That's not a hadith, that's a piece of "Israiliyyat" recorded in Tafseer Ibn Kathir. Israiliyyat were legends current among the Jews and Christian of Arabia that were sometimes quoted in relation to verses of the Qur'an. They are not from the Prophet and have no bearing on Muslim creed. The giant bull in question is the "Behemoth" of Jewish folklore.

[seosoftseo]

bukhari book 3 volume 31 hadith 170

This is not a hadîth of the Prophet (peace be upon him). It is not even something that `Amr claims he told to the Prophet (peace be upon him). It is just `Amr’s personal account of some things in the days of ignorance.

[Slonopotam845]

Thanks for the response. What is the reason for doing that?

What about these?
Ø Killing the apostate?
Sahih Bukhari 9/57:
Mohammed said, "Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him."

Ø No big deal to kill a “kafeer” (infidel)?
Sahih Bukhari 9/50:
Mohammed said, " No Muslim should be killed for killing a Kafir" (infidel)

and the contradiction listed here.
The Prophet never urinated in a standing position.(Masnad Hanbal, 6/136, 192, 213)
The Prophet urinated in a standing position. (Bukhari, 4/60, 62)

Quran: ﴾4:82) Why do they not reflect on the Quran ? If it were from other than GOD, they would have found in it many contradictions.

The earth is carried on a giant bull; when it shakes its head, then an earthquake occurs. (Ibn Katheer 2/29; 50/1

Thanks

I'd like to add a few more quotes from the Quran.

Quran 45:6 - "These are the verses of Allah which We recite to you in truth. Then in what statement (hadeethin) after Allah and His verses will they believe?"

Quran 20:52 - "[Moses] said, "The knowledge thereof is with my Lord in a record. My Lord neither errs nor forgets."

Quran 6:38 - "And there is no creature on [or within] the earth or bird that flies with its wings except [that they are] communities like you. We have not neglected in the Register a thing. Then unto their Lord they will be gathered."

[Slonopotam845]

This is not a hadîth of the Prophet (peace be upon him). It is not even something that `Amr claims he told to the Prophet (peace be upon him). It is just `Amr’s personal account of some things in the days of ignorance.

Then why didn't Bukhari dispose of this "hadith"? And what about the others I listed (theres many more)?

[nicktender]

Okay it's become clear that Kasinova is a Qur'an-only troll with an agenda.