[loikrso]

Shaykh Muhyi al-Din Ibn Arabi (RAH) was a saint of a lofty spiritual station. He is called
Shaykh-al-Akbar. His biography is available in this link.

http://sulook.org/jsp/biographies/Shaykh_Ibn_Arabi.pdf

One of his wise sayings is mentioned in Fazael-e-Amal written by a great Deobandi scholar, Mawlana Zakariya (RAH) as shown below.

----------------------------------------------
Taken from chapter 7 ,"Keeping company with the Righteous " , Fazael-e-Tablig

A Companion asked the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho alaihe wasallam) "Who can be the best companion for
us?" He answered: "Such a person that. when you see him. you remember Allah; when you listen to
him, your knowledge of Islam is increased; when you see his actions. you are reminded of the life
Hereafter." (Targheeb)

Again, "The most devoted servants of Allah are such that. when you see them you remember Allah." Says Allah in the Holy Qur'an:

"0 those who believe! Fear Allah, and be with the truthful (faithful) people!"

The commentators have written that by 'truthful' are meant the mystics and the true lovers of Allah, for whoever attaches himself to them and listens to their sermons, he attains very high standards of spirituality.

Sheikh Akbar has written: "You cannot get rid of the evil wishes of yourself, though you may strive for it for your whole life unless your desires are subjected to the commandments of Allah and the Sunnah of the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho alaihe wasallam). So, when you find a true lover of Allah, serve him well and follow his instructions as though you have no will of your own; obey him in all your spiritual, religious and personal problems. even those concerning your occupation, so that he may lead you to the right path and take you nearer to Allah. "


Says the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho alaihe wasallam) "When a group of people remember Allah in a
meeting. then the angels surround that gathering, Allah's mercy descends on them and Allah
remembers them in the assembly of Angels." What honour can be greater for the believers than that
Allah remembers and appreciates them? Says the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho alaihe wasallam): "An
angel is sent to those who remember Allah sincerely, and he says 'Allah has forgiven your past sins,
and has converted your bad deeds into good ones'."
-----------------------

[VomsVomaMew]

some posters here,including 'deo' posters seem to be greater muhadditheen than Sh.Zakariyyah(r.a.) and they seem to have better knowledge than him as to who we should hate and regard kuufar and who we should accept as our ulama and akabireen.

[lE3l6Lgn]

some posters here,including 'deo' posters seem to be greater muhadditheen than Sh.Zakariyyah(r.a.)

sh.zakariya(rh) wasnt obviously better muhaddith than ibn hajar asqalani(rh) =)

[VomsVomaMew]

I'm sure sh.Zakariah(r.a.) was not knowledgeable enough to know the view of Ibn Hajr(r.a.).or for that matter Ml.Thanwi(r.a.) was also wrong as far as Ibn Arabi(r.a.) is concerned.
by the way,the comment was not directed at you.

was salam

[lE3l6Lgn]

I'm sure sh.Zakariah(r.a.) was not knowledgeable enough to know the view of Ibn Hajr(r.a.).or for that matter Ml.Thanwi(r.a.) was also wrong as far as Ibn Hajr(r.a.) is concerned.

its not about knowledge, its about adopting husn dhan and being strict against kufr. sh.zakariya(rh) adopt the view according to his Ijtehad, ibn hajar(rh) did mubahala based upon his Ijtehad. so if any one feel safe adopting ibn hajar(rh) opinion and denies to read any of ibn arabis lesson, its his right. IF any person feel safe calling ibn arabi as sheikhe akbar and trust his knowledge, its his right. it got nothign to do with deo having more knoweldge than sh.zakariya(rh) just because they were adopting another view.

by the way,the comment was not directed at you.

I know bro =)

[Tjfyojlg]

السلام عليكم

No doubt great wisdom and knowledge in the books of Ibn 'Arabi (called Sheikh al-Akbar by Sufis), However keep in mind that this man kept digging deeper into philosophy until he came up with clear cut Kufri statements.



And there's a lesson there for all.

[VomsVomaMew]

the same goes for ibn taymiyyah(r.a.) how many times did he change his view-aqeedah/fiqh e.t.c.?
how many times did he make tuabah?
salafi's today more than barelwi's are forcing us into a corner to accept their scholars and make takfir of the sufiyae kiram-deoband itself is a sufi oriented movement and as such we are expected to make takfir of our spiritual ancestors based on others uneducated narrow-minded outlook? our akabirren have gone through these sufiyas works in extremedetail and have accepted them and we accept our akabirren.these people expect us to forsake our links to the salaf and to adopt their manhaj.they will not rest untill we adopt their manhaj and forsake our salaf.

was salam

[lE3l6Lgn]

salafi's today more than barelwi's are forcing us into a corner to accept their scholars and make takfir of the sufiyae kiram-deoband itself is a sufi oriented movement

yet barelwis made open takfir of deoband akabirin and not salafis.

[VomsVomaMew]

i don't know about you and your area,but as for myself and where i live barelwis are non-entities,and that is my impression of their lot,globally.theres no need to try to kill a dead rat when a hyena is attempting to devour your flesh

was salam

[Tjfyojlg]

the same goes for ibn taymiyyah(r.a.) how many times did he change his view-aqeedah/fiqh e.t.c.?
how many times did he make tuabah?
salafi's today more than barelwi's are forcing us into a corner to accept their scholars and make takfir of the sufiyae kiram-deoband itself is a sufi oriented movement and as such we are expected to make takfir of our spiritual ancestors based on others uneducated narrow-minded outlook? our akabirren have gone through these sufiyas works in extremedetail and have accepted them and we accept our akabirren.these people expect us to forsake our links to the salaf and to adopt their manhaj.they will not rest untill we adopt their manhaj and forsake our salaf.

was salam

Take the wisdom from his books if you're a scholar and extract the valuable knowledge but trust me do not compliment his person by saying "Shaykh al-Akbar" and such because if he really did write those statements he obviously doesn't deserve the title. Do not take his likes and call them your Salaf, our Salaf are the Companions and Followers and Those after them, If you want to do Islam and Sufism in specific a great favour do not compliment a Sheikh that says things such as:

ابن عربي يقول ( ولولا ظهور الحق في أعيان الخلق ما كانت صفاته وأسماؤه، ولما عرفناه، لأننا إنما نعرفه عن طريق هذه الأسماء والصفات المتجلية في الكون، ولكن ثنائية الحق والخلق ثنائية موهومة زائفة لأنها من أحكام العقل والنظر والحس، والعقل لا يقوى على إدراك الوحدة الشاملة ولا يستطيع إلا أن يدرك التعدد والتكثر) الفتوحات الجزء الاول صحيفة263
(أما وجود الخلق فمجرد ظل لصاحب الظل وصورة المرآة بالنسبة لصاحب المرآة فالخلق شبح) الفتوحات الجزء الاول صحيفة 119- 120

فنحن له كما ثبتت *** أدلتنا، ونحن أن
وليس له سوى كوني *** فنحن له كنحن بن
فلي وجهان: هو وأنا *** وليس له أنا بأن
ولكن فيّ مظهره *** فنحن له كمثل أن
فيحمدني وأحمده *** ويعبدني وأعبده
في حال أقرّ به *** وفي الأعيان أجحده
فيعرفني وأنكره ** وأعرفه فأشهده
وكذا قوله:
فوقتا يكون العبد رباّ بلا شك *** ووقتا يكون العبد عبدا بلا إفك
فإن كان عبداً كان بالحق واسعاً *** وإن كان رباً كان في عيشة ضنك

فصوص الحكم 83- 90

مذ تألهت رجعت مظهراً *** وكذا كنت فبي فاعتصموا
أنا حبل الله في كونكمو *** فالزموا الباب عبيداً واخدموا
ليس في الجبة غير ما قاله *** الحلاج يوما فانعموا
عز الإله فما يحويه من أحد *** وبعد هذا فإنا قد وسعناه
الفتوحات، ج 2، ص 320 - 321

[lE3l6Lgn]

i don't know about you and your area

its not about area, its about the academic takfir from them about the deoband ulama.

[VomsVomaMew]

Take the wisdom from his books if you're a scholar and extract the valuable knowledge but trust me do not compliment his person by saying "Shaykh al-Akbar" and such because if he really did write those statements he obviously doesn't deserve the title. Do not take his likes and call them your Salaf, our Salaf are the Companions and Followers and Those after them, If you want to do Islam and Sufism in specific a great favour do not compliment a Sheikh that says things such as:

ابن عربي يقول ( ولولا ظهور الحق في أعيان الخلق ما كانت صفاته وأسماؤه، ولما عرفناه، لأننا إنما نعرفه عن طريق هذه الأسماء والصفات المتجلية في الكون، ولكن ثنائية الحق والخلق ثنائية موهومة زائفة لأنها من أحكام العقل والنظر والحس، والعقل لا يقوى على إدراك الوحدة الشاملة ولا يستطيع إلا أن يدرك التعدد والتكثر) الفتوحات الجزء الاول صحيفة263
(أما وجود الخلق فمجرد ظل لصاحب الظل وصورة المرآة بالنسبة لصاحب المرآة فالخلق شبح) الفتوحات الجزء الاول صحيفة 119- 120

فنحن له كما ثبتت *** أدلتنا، ونحن أن
وليس له سوى كوني *** فنحن له كنحن بن
فلي وجهان: هو وأنا *** وليس له أنا بأن
ولكن فيّ مظهره *** فنحن له كمثل أن
فيحمدني وأحمده *** ويعبدني وأعبده
في حال أقرّ به *** وفي الأعيان أجحده
فيعرفني وأنكره ** وأعرفه فأشهده
وكذا قوله:
فوقتا يكون العبد رباّ بلا شك *** ووقتا يكون العبد عبدا بلا إفك
فإن كان عبداً كان بالحق واسعاً *** وإن كان رباً كان في عيشة ضنك

فصوص الحكم 83- 90

مذ تألهت رجعت مظهراً *** وكذا كنت فبي فاعتصموا
أنا حبل الله في كونكمو *** فالزموا الباب عبيداً واخدموا
ليس في الجبة غير ما قاله *** الحلاج يوما فانعموا
عز الإله فما يحويه من أحد *** وبعد هذا فإنا قد وسعناه
الفتوحات، ج 2، ص 320 - 321

bro,with all due respect that is your view.as for myself,i won't come close to possessing the Ilm of sh.Zakariyyah(r.a.) or Ml.Thanwi(r.a.) and the akabireen of deoband by and large in 10 lifetimes.Hence I will just adopt their position in the matter.They were sufis themselves and their knowledge and understanding of who Ibn Arabi(r.a.) was, was transmitted through the noble chain of ustadh and student,of ta'leem and ta3allum and not from merely sitting and reading books e.t.c.(i'm not saying that you do that)

was salam

[EmpaccalGah]

Once Imam Ahmed Ibn Hanbal rahimahullah was talking with the Mu'tazali minister of Wasiq Billah, Ibn Abi Dawood,regarding the issue of "Khalq e Quran". An argument of Imam Ahmed rahimahullah changed the heart of Wasiq billah. Imam Ahmed told Ibn Abi Dawood " Do you claim that you have come to know what the Prophet and his companions did not know ? If yes then you are an audacious person of no worth. Do you claim that the Prophet and his companions knew about it and they preferred to remain silent on this issue ? If yes then you should have preferred to remain silent as well"

The same goes for Ibn Arabi and Wahdat ul Wujood.

[loikrso]

Once Imam Ahmed Ibn Hanbal rahimahullah was talking with the Mu'tazali minister of Wasiq Billah, Ibn Abi Dawood,regarding the issue of "Khalq e Quran". An argument of Imam Ahmed rahimahullah changed the heart of Wasiq billah. Imam Ahmed told Ibn Abi Dawood " Do you claim that you have come to know what the Prophet and his companions did not know ? If yes then you are an audacious person of no worth. Do you claim that the Prophet and his companions knew about it and they preferred to remain silent on this issue ? If yes then you should have preferred to remain silent as well"

The same goes for Ibn Arabi and Wahdat ul Wujood.

Ypu have used the above mentioned bold statement out of context for Shaykh Ibn Arabi (RAH).
Such an attitude of using out of context statement has very subtle satanic deception which will cause an ordinary Muslim start hating those people whom Allah loves !!! Consequently , that guy will face troubles in the hereafter.

Regarding Shaykh Ibn Arabi (RAH ) , the following extract taken from this link is worth-mentioning.

-------------------------------------------------------
http://sulook.org/jsp/biographies/Shaykh_Ibn_Arabi.pdf

Through the baraka of the Beloved of Allah’s saw prayer, nearly six centuries after him,
one of the greatest saints of Islam was born to a pious Arab family of the Tay tribe that was
originally from Taif, but had settled in far away Murcia in al-Andalus, Spain. The name of the
child was Muhammad ibn Ali ibn Arabi al-Tayi qs, who later came to be known as al-Shaykh al-
Akbar Muhyi al-Din Ibn Arabi qs.al-Shaykh al-Akbar qs was born to a religious and influential family on Monday, the 17th Ramadan 560 AH/28th July 1165 CE .


The near universal acceptance his works received among the awliya since his time attests to the fact that al-Shaykh al-Akbar qs accomplished this task to perfection. This would have been impossible had
he and his works not been blessed by Allah and Rasul Allah saw. In fact, it was only after he had a
profound spiritual experience in front of the Hajar al-Aswad in Makkah that al-Shaykh al-Akbar qs
started composing his opus magnum, the Futuhat al-Makkiya.

After staying in Makka al-Mukarramah for about two year, al-Shaykh al-Akbar qs
resumed his travels. He first paid another visit to Rasul Allah saw in Madina al-Munawwara and
then visited various places in Syria before arriving in Baghdad. From there, he went via Mosul to
Konya in Anatolia at the invitation of its ruler, Sultan Kaykaus. All this while, he continued to
meet prominent ulama and shaykhs, among them Shaykh Shihab al-Din al-Suhrawardi qs. His
circle of disciples expanded greatly wherever he went.

Finally, in 620 AH, Al-Shaykh al-Akbar qs permanently settled down in Damascus with his
family and disciples. He spent his remaining years teaching and guiding his disciples and writing
many works for their edification. He continued to meet members of the religious and spiritual
elite. Mawlana Jalal al-Din Rumi qs also visited him in Damascus.

While he was always revered in Sufi circles, al-Shaykh al-Akbar qs became controversial
for some ulama a century or so after his death. It is perhaps understandable this would be so,
given the highly technical and symbolic nature of most of al-Shaykh al-Akbar’s qs writings. It is
quite easy for those not familiar with Sufi terminology, and al-Shaykh al-Akbar’s qs own complex
terminology to misunderstand him. Matters are not helped when people ignore the context in
which his works were written and meant to be read. They were not meant for general
consumption, but for those traveling the Sufi path and engaged in Sufi exercises and
contemplation.



Based on superficial misreading, some alleged that al-Shaykh al-Akbar’s qs teachings
implied the negation of the Sharia or at least its outer aspects. Nothing could be further from
the truth. As can be seen from his biography, he was particularly concerned with Hadith, and
was an accomplished muhaddith himself. Not only that, he followed the Dhahiri madhhab and
considered it a must to take revelation literally, whether it was the recited revelation (wahyi
matlu) of the Quran, or the un-recited revelation (wahyi ghayr matlu) of the Hadith. His fiqh, like
his spiritual insights, was based on taking seriously the literal meanings of Quranic verses and
wordings of Hadith. At the same time, he never tried to impose his fiqh on others, nor did he
condemn or allowed his students to condemn other fuqaha or their schools of Fiqh.


Like all major Sufi saints, al-Shaykh al-Akbar qs was particularly concerned with the five
pillars of Islam, and gave elaborate explanations of the spiritual meaning and benefits of each.
Just the way he derived his spiritual insights from the literal meaning of revelation, similarly, he
considered it essential to follow the outer aspect of the Sharia, like the rituals, if one were to
acquire and benefit from its inner dimension.

In any case, the majority of ulama and nearly all Sufis affirmed his lofty status. Even
Shaykh Ahmad Sirhindi al-Mujaddid qs, who initially criticized some of al-Shaykh al-Akbar’s qs
teachings based on his own spiritual insights, later came to accept the Akbari position, as is
attested in some of the later letters he wrote that can be found in the third volume of his
Maktubat


In fact, in his own spiritual journey, as Shaykh al-Mujaddid qs acknowledges, the only
person with whom he could have a discourse all the way was al-Shaykh al-Akbar qs with whom
“sometimes he was at war, and sometimes he was at peace”.

Shaykh al-Mujaddid’s qs own insights give an explanation for this. According to him, the status of a wali depends upon his nearness to God. This, in turn, is manifested by the amount of Divine knowledge revealed to the wali. This criterion gives ample proof of the lofty status of al-Shaykh al-Akbar qs and why other awliya gave him this title.

Sadly, in our times, as many Muslims have moved away from the true teachings of their
religion, the unfair criticism and condemnation of al-Shaykh al-Akbar qs has increased on the one
hand, while on the other, many have started misusing his teachings. As more Muslims have
rejected Tasawwuf they have also rejected one of its greatest saints.
------------------------------

After reading the above post , if someone still does not start loving Shaykh Ibn Arabi ( RAH) , he might see trouble here or hereafter.

[EmpaccalGah]

Ypu have used the above mentioned bold statement out of context for Shaykh Ibn Arabi (RAH).
Such an attitude of using out of context statement has very subtle satanic deception which will cause an ordinary Muslim start hating those people whom Allah loves

How do you know that Allah loves Ibn Arabi , in specific ? Are you an Alim ul Ghaib? Ibn Taymiyyah , Ibn Qayyam , Imam Dhahabi , Ibn katheer , Ibn Rajjab , Mullah Ali Qari and many more declared him Kafir.Ibn Hajjar went to extent of doing Mubahila with his follower. Did they all declare the one loved by Allah a Kafir?

!!! Consequently , that guy will face troubles in the hereafter.

This is exactly that subtle satanic deception of emotional blackmailing which you people have been using to terrorize the laymen.It is no longer effective.Come up with some new phrases please.
Rest of your post is that boring copy paste which i have already read several times. Nothing substantial in it. Inbetween , i feel that the full of wisdom saying of Imam Ahmed Ibn Hanbal ra really pinched your nerve.

[loikrso]

Ypu have used the above mentioned bold statement out of context for Shaykh Ibn Arabi (RAH).
Such an attitude of using out of context statement has very subtle satanic deception which will cause an ordinary Muslim start hating those people whom Allah loves

How do you know that Allah loves Ibn Arabi , in specific ? Are you an Alim ul Ghaib? Ibn Taymiyyah , Ibn Qayyam , Imam Dhahabi , Ibn katheer , Ibn Rajjab , Mullah Ali Qari and many more declared him Kafir.Ibn Hajjar went to extent of doing Mubahila with his follower. Did they all declare the one loved by Allah a Kafir?

!!! Consequently , that guy will face troubles in the hereafter.

This is exactly that subtle satanic deception of emotional blackmailing which you people have been using to terrorize the laymen.It is no longer effective.Come up with some new phrases please.
Rest of your post is that boring copy paste which i have already read several times. Nothing substantial in it. Inbetween , i feel that the full of wisdom saying of Imam Ahmed Ibn Hanbal ra really pinched your nerve.

Have u ever heard Shaykh Ahmad Sirhindi al-Mujaddid (RAH ) from India ? If not , you should search the web about him and consult a local scholar about him.

Shaykh Ahmad Sirhindi(RAH) courageously saved Islam from corruption intitiated by Mogul emperor Akbar in India and he was blessed with a high spiritual station.

His final comments about Shaykh Ibn Arabi (RAH) should be enough for us to love and respect
Shaykh Ibn Arabi (RAH).

There is also one important book titled as " Consquence of Debasing Auliya " written by a khalifa of Mawlana Zakariya (RAH). This book shows why its so dangerous to have hatred toards those saints whom Allah loves. The book is available in the following thread.


http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...(RAH)&p=641076

[LianneForbess]

Ypu have used the above mentioned bold statement out of context for Shaykh Ibn Arabi (RAH).
Such an attitude of using out of context statement has very subtle satanic deception which will cause an ordinary Muslim start hating those people whom Allah loves

How do you know that Allah loves Ibn Arabi , in specific ? Are you an Alim ul Ghaib? Ibn Taymiyyah , Ibn Qayyam , Imam Dhahabi , Ibn katheer , Ibn Rajjab , Mullah Ali Qari and many more declared him Kafir.Ibn Hajjar went to extent of doing Mubahila with his follower. Did they all declare the one loved by Allah a Kafir?

!!! Consequently , that guy will face troubles in the hereafter.

This is exactly that subtle satanic deception of emotional blackmailing which you people have been using to terrorize the laymen.It is no longer effective.Come up with some new phrases please.
Rest of your post is that boring copy paste which i have already read several times. Nothing substantial in it. Inbetween , i feel that the full of wisdom saying of Imam Ahmed Ibn Hanbal ra really pinched your nerve.

Imam Ibn Taymiyyah could fall under the quote from Imam Ahmad as well.

After all, I don't believe any of the Salaf, let alone Rasulullah mentioned anything about Allah being in a non-existent place, or speaking originated sounds, or that the creation was eternal as a type.

So, are you going to accept the takfir of Shaikh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah by those who made it?

[LianneForbess]

Have u ever heard Shaykh Ahmad Sirhindi al-Mujaddid (RAH ) from India ? If not , you should search the web about him and consult a local scholar about him.

Shaykh Ahmad Sirhindi(RAH) courageously saved Islam from corruption intitiated by Mogul emperor Akbar in India and he was blessed with a high spiritual station.

His final comments about Shaykh Ibn Arabi (RAH) should be enough for us to love and respect
Shaykh Ibn Arabi (RAH).

There is also one important book titled as " Consquence of Debasing Auliya " written by a khalifa of Mawlana Zakariya (RAH). This book shows why its so dangerous to have hatred toards those saints whom Allah loves. The book is available in the following thread.


http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...(RAH)&p=641076

I thought Mujaddid Alf Thaani opposed Wahdat ul-Wujood and Ibn `Arabi ?

[EmpaccalGah]

Imam Ibn Taymiyyah could fall under the quote from Imam Ahmad as well.

After all, I don't believe any of the Salaf, let alone Rasulullah mentioned anything about Allah being in a non-existent place, or speaking originated sounds, or that the creation was eternal as a type.

So, are you going to accept the takfir of Shaikh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah by those who made it?

I will be more than happy to discuss the issues which you have raised.Make a new thread and provide the quotations from the books of Shaykh Ul Islam rahimahullah. I will try to explain them to you (Though i think much has been explained to you by Abu Zakariya Yahya)

[EmpaccalGah]

I thought Mujaddid Alf Thaani opposed Wahdat ul-Wujood and Ibn `Arabi ?

Sorry for the interruption but as i have seen you constantly bringing up this issue , Do you understand the difference between Wahdat ul Wujood and Wahdat ul Shuhood? If you had ever tried to compare "Maktoobat" with "Fusus Al Hikam" , you would have come to know that Shaykh Ahmed Sarhindi has only differed with Ibn Arabi in the Mumkinaat and Ta'yunaat. Rest , he has affirmed his views of rejection of existence in Kharij and thr rejection of Hadis.