[envenonearo]

Assalaamu alaikum,

I don't know how others feel but I feel there's been a recent onslaught on the general forum from these tedious debates between "defenders" of the salafi and Asha'ri creeds.

They not only have their own specific threads but also seem to creep in to unrelated threads and take over.

Shouldn't this section be about "general" issues, current events affecting Muslims?

If enough people feel the same way can the mods restrict these debates to a specific section, In depth or something.

[LoloLibia]

It´s quite remarkable how much the salafis (or some of the people claiming to be of the Hanabilah nowadays) focus on Aqida when they are supposed to follow the salaf and just make tafweed. From my own encounters with salafis this is one of several really remarkable paradoxes. Another one of these paradoxes would be that it usually takes takes about 10 seconds speaking to a salafi (unfortunately this has spread to most corners of the Ummah) before he brings up something negative and/or controversial. The Ummah is this or that, this is shirk, this is bid´a etc etc. Is it possible to imagine the Salaf to be a gang of whiners who just complained about everything all the time? Or even more absurd, to envisage our Prophet as someone who constantly focused on argumentation and negative things? Our beloved Prophet liked to hear good news and always had Rida. Corruption has to be addressed and error has to be pointed out, but when you step into alot of mosques today the first thing you hear is complaint about the politicial situation in x or y country, that this or that is bid´a and the list goes on. Do we think that this attracts non-muslims to our religion? What kind of people takes argumentation and complaint as nourishment for their souls?

I would like to point out that i don´t just want to bash salafis, but i have found that this tendency is very extreme in those corners (atleast here in Sweden). The tendency is widespread and especially so on the internet. In our blessed tradition argumentation is not viewed as anything good, quite the contrary..

[Phassetus]

LOL they just turned your thread into a debate!

[lungumnentibe]

It is sad and funny at the same time. Sad because half of them do know know to recite Soorat al-Faatihah with Tajweed. And Funny because half -of them claim to be Mujtahid fil Shar.

[envenonearo]

I don't know whether to laugh or pull my hair out!

LOL they just turned your thread into a debate!

[envenonearo]

It is sad and funny at the same time. Sad because half of them do know know to recite Soorat al-Faatihah with Tajweed. And Funny because half -of them claim to be Mujtahid fil Shar.

Who's "them"? I'm sick of both sides

[BopeDolaNeone]

Who's "them"? I'm sick of both sides

Yes Abd ar Rehman,ME TOO,_______________ too much debates on these topics ! It has become nauseating now.

[juidizHusw]

mee tooo!!

What do you suggest? dump all these threads into the irrecoverable in-depth section?? Or any other idea. You have to understand that being an academic forum, these discussions do normally come up. However they are definitely not for general discussions.

[Phassetus]

mee tooo!!

What do you suggest? dump all these threads into the irrecoverable in-depth section?? Or any other idea. You have to understand that being an academic forum, these discussions do normally come up. However they are definitely not for general discussions.

السلام عليكم

I Suggest closing any thread discussing the nature of God as it's a Bida'ah. How he descends, ascends, what's meant by Hand, all hearing all seeing, what's a throne, where is god, above/below heavens, everywhere nowhere ect.... all of them bring no benefit to Islam whatsoever.

EDIT: Also no more Takfeer on Ahlul-Sunnah, No one should make Takfeer on Habib Ali because he is a Sufi or Yusuf Estes because he is a Salafi.

أرجو أن يأخذ الأخ أبو هاجرة الحنفي مشاركتي بعين الاعتبار و أن نضع حدا لهذه المهزلة في المنتدى

[SpecialOFFER]

السلام عليكم

I Suggest closing any thread discussing the nature of God as it's a Bida'ah. How he descends, ascends, what's meant by Hand, all hearing all seeing, what's a throne, where is god, above/below heavens, everywhere nowhere ect.... all of them bring no benefit to Islam whatsoever.

EDIT: Also no more Takfeer on Ahlul-Sunnah, No one should make Takfeer on Habib Ali because he is a Sufi or Yusuf Estes because he is a Salafi.

أرجو أن يأخذ الأخ أبو هاجرة الحنفي مشاركتي بعين الاعتبار و أن نضع حدا لهذه المهزلة في المنتدى

Yes!!! Cricket threads also!

[muytreda]

Actually people have alot of ample time these days and nothing better to do.. So they just start these threads and waste everybody's time. These threads have no use whatsoever

[BopeDolaNeone]

mee tooo!!

What do you suggest? dump all these threads into the irrecoverable in-depth section?? Or any other idea. You have to understand that being an academic forum, these discussions do normally come up. However they are definitely not for general discussions.

Sir,why not make a section Ikhtilafi masael or any other proper English name for it.
Then the wrestling between them will be limited to that section and we will be spared of this "DHOOL DHAPPA"

[Precturge]

Academic debate should be fine. Those who wants to enter the "debate" should provide their teacher's names (of aqidah) and teacher's teacher's name. If there is no isnad, then the post should be deleted and user should be banned.

[Beauseaccerce]

"Banning" ke deewane ho gaye ho tum log.

[Uzezqelj]

Assalam u Alikum wr wb

I see the importance of putting Wahabies in their place, certainly that is something all Muslims should be aware off, but debating on these issues again and again is like whipping a dead horse thinking it might get up and start running. I have been in the Deobandi/Barelvi/Wahabi field for years now, and i think i have enough Ammo to take them down.

We must focus on other things. Like research institutions, Universities, community building etc etc. I mean lets Take Toronto, my home city for 4.5 years now. I have been to all the libraries that exist with the exception of a few and every book almost on Islam is by deviants like Manji, Hirshi Ali, Ibn Warraq, Fatah, Sardar or people who are sympathetic to Islam like Karen or Hans etc, no one that can be said to present orthodoxy. In the political section Islam began on September 11,2001, Osama, suicide bombing, Jihad etc. I could only imagine the circumstances of someone going into the library looking for something positive to read about Islam. I mean dont get me wrong there are rebuttals of Christianity as well, but there are counter rebuts as well. Almost no rebuttals for Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism etc except for Militant atheists like Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens etc.
All the Mosque uncles are fighting for who will be the president of the mosque, Gujrati, Pakistani, Guyanese, Arab, Somali etc. We have no programmes to work for the community infact there is no return. We have 100;s of Muslims working cash jobs and getting Social services money. I mean there is a reason why we are seen as parasites in these western communities. Dont get me wrong, we have very well educated individuals but the overall community is in real bad shape. I mean just visit the Muslim buildings in Toronto. I have done security for a few and trust me i know what conspires there. There are almost no Programs for new Muslims and their accommodation into the Muslim society. Everyone is all Merry and cheering when someone becomes a Muslim in the mosque....All Takbirs and Allah u Akbar and hugs and advices, but when it comes to real things, no one is to be found except for a few people. We have very few people who can rebut the kind of stuff which is polluting the minds of our generation here. There is no audit for the expenses of our mosques. When someone goes to claim zakat he is given a feeble amount not even worth mentioning whereas thousand$ are taken every month.

We have Neo-Nazi groups popping all over the place, accussing Islam for every evil that exists is a norm. We have no Muslim defense league, we have idiots like Reza aslan and Mona El Tahawi who have no idea about Islam and will deny any and everything about Islam with the argument of not every one of 1.5 billion Muslims believe this. What institutions are preparing leaders? Where are our social scientists. Trust me we have a 25 year supply of Engeneers, doctors etc, no people working in Sociology departments etc.

All these discussions on theology, fiqh, hadeeth etc etc were taking place when we had a caliphate, we had our lands secured. All the great Ulama one can think of were living in Islamic Caliphates from the 4 Imams to the Muhaditheen to the Mufasireen etc etc. There is a reason why Sahaba(ra) didnt have time for these things because they were knew the basics and they were working for establishing Islam in its essence. We on the other hand are discussing issues and fighting when there is not even a basic Islamic structure in the world today.

Sorry, i am not saying i am any different then what i have mentioning, but there is a time and place for things, and i dont think we have the privilege to spend hours and hours on these issues when the Ummah is being slaughtered.

Wa Salam

[envenonearo]

mee tooo!!

What do you suggest? dump all these threads into the irrecoverable in-depth section?? Or any other idea. You have to understand that being an academic forum, these discussions do normally come up. However they are definitely not for general discussions.

I came a cross a thread not long a go by one of the mods (think it was br. Gabreel) stating reasons for dissapearing threads (one reason being threads being posted in the wrong section).

Would it be possible to remove any thread on in depth Aqeedah issues being moved as soon as possible?

I know this is a public forum and people want to discuss many issues (and should generaly be free to do so) but the general section seems to have been swamped recently.

I don't think banning discussions or posters is the solution, but the general section should be freed up from these in depth discussions.

Also it's probably not appropriate for some of the younger readers.

[Henldyhl]

Academic debate should be fine. Those who wants to enter the "debate" should provide their teacher's names (of aqidah) and teacher's teacher's name. If there is no isnad, then the post should be deleted and user should be banned.

What if your teachers teachers teachers teacher is Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab himself

[Precturge]

What if your teachers teachers teachers teacher is Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab himself

It's ok. Because then you know who they are representing. Sometimes in this forum, some people will represent themselves as Hanafi/Shafi'i followers, but then claim to be anti-that and anti-this and start quoting Hanafi/Shafi'i ulama to support their stands. It's crucial to know who they are and who they are not, mainly to avoid confusions. Some people just sprouting words without solid evidences and just trying to be in the debate by copy paste some articles without actually understand them.

[LoloLibia]

LOL they just turned your thread into a debate!

dear brother

I did ofcourse see the irony in my post. However, my main complaint was about complaining and not about salafis. I personally would like that we leave these debates and try to work on the problems our community is facing.. but then we have to leave excessive argumentation.

In what category of "they" are you putting me? With 22 posts its quite a feat to have me cornered in that well

[Kneeniasy]

What if your teachers teachers teachers teacher is Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab himself

what if your teacher is shaykh al-islam tahir al-qadri ( a friend of shaykh muhammad yacoubi ) or your teacher is Habib Hasan Ali Saqqaf al-Shadhilli or if your teacher is Sultan al-Awliya Shaykh Nazim or if your teacher Shaykh Abdullah al-Habashi ? or Takfiri Mufti Azam of India, Akhtar Raza Khan Barelwi (endorsed by Habaib of Yemen )

It is very crucial to know who your teachers are because you see some claim to follow and do taqlid of Hanafi madhab and have ijazas and asanid but they do everything against Hanafi madhhab like legalizing dancing ( hadra ) or seeking help madad from dead creation and they say we have ijazas and asanid. They say, it is okay to switch to another madhhab to have little fun and then switch back to your original madhhab before going to sleep. Funny scholars. I totally agree with brother alfatiha about such people who say they are scholars >

Also, very important to know why the people of ijazas and asanid have stopped following their Imams , like take the example of Habib Hasan Ali Saqqaf ? I still don't get it why he doesn't follow Imam Baqillani or Imam Ashari like what is mentioned in Ibn Asakir's tabyin kadhib al-muftari ? ijaza brother & isnad going back but why not follow ? strange isn't it.

What is more stranger that the claim lamadhabis don't follow madhhab but in the end it turns out the one making claim is himself not following madhhab. Look at Shaykh Ahmad al-Ghumari ? What madhhab did he follow in creed or fiqh ? anyone care to tell ? what about his brother Abdullah ? Which madhhab did he adhere in fiqh ?