[JewJoleSole]

Most of the mosques pray below 15 degrees during summer. I am interested in fatwa from scholars outside of the UK who have allowed such.

Please post fatawa from well-known scholars and madaris from South-Africa, subcontinent, Arab world etc.

I am also extremely interested in the opinion of scholars such as Mufti Desai, Ml. Fazlur Rahman, Mufti Taqi/Rafi etc.

Especially interested in the scholars from Darul Uloom Karachi because they (Mufti Rafi) gave a fatwa that praying below 15 degrees was not allowed.

I know they visited UK quite often and wondered what their practice was.

[JewJoleSole]

By the way, I find it quite odd that we have dozens of thread about moonsighting while this issue is FAR MORE important than everything else. It has got to do with our most important ibada: prayer.

[lungumnentibe]

Isn't Mufti Taqi in UK currently?

[JewJoleSole]

Isn't Mufti Taqi in UK currently?

Yes I thought so. Please let some brothers ask him this question. He signed a fatwa (nawadir al-fiqh) saying praying before 15 degrees is incorrect. I am sure he must be praying with jamaat now. Does he repeat his prayer or not?

If any of the brothers are in touch with Mufti Taqi, let them ask this question please.

I am also in doubt what to do now and Ramadan is coming now.

[JewJoleSole]

[Thunderzee]

I have the same problem. 'ajjiluu bi 'l-ijabah!

[Alexeryy]

Maybe someone (preferably a scholar in his own right) can contact Mufti sahab through the hosts of his UK tour.

And I'm under the impression, that Mufti Muhammad Rafi' Usmani [HA] was posed this question in his UK visit... but the answer was probably not made public.

[JewJoleSole]

And I'm under the impression, that Mufti Muhammad Rafi' Usmani [HA] was posed this question in his UK visit... but the answer was probably not made public.

Why would you think so? This should be made public because we laymen get the fatwa from him, that it is not allowed to pray before 15 degrees, while this is impossible for most to practice. Especially in other countries where 15 degrees is more late.

Can anyone tell his practice whether he would pray in mosque, and whether he would repeat his Isha prayer or not?

[lungumnentibe]

where are you in UK?

If you're in Leicester, you can contact Shaykh Riyaadh and ask him?

[JewJoleSole]

where are you in UK?

If you're in Leicester, you can contact Shaykh Riyaadh and ask him?

His position was discussed in other threads. He allowed to pray isha in maghrib time: http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...l=1#post479686

I am dying to know the position of Mufti Rafi Usmani, since he clearly said it was not allowed. Now I am sure it is very hard for an old man to stay awake until 1 am for Isha only and repeat one's isha prayer that he had performed in the mosque.

Opinion of Mufti Desai and others outside of UK would be nice too, who have told the masses to pray according to 15 degrees.

I know they would be visiting UK in the Ramadan, and I am sure they will join tarawih and pray it before 15 degrees.

[lungumnentibe]

His position was discussed in other threads. He allowed to pray isha in maghrib time: http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...l=1#post479686

I am dying to know the position of Mufti Rafi Usmani, since he clearly said it was not allowed. Now I am sure it is very hard for an old man to stay awake until 1 am for Isha only and repeat one's isha prayer that he had performed in the mosque.

Opinion of Mufti Desai and others outside of UK would be nice too, who have told the masses to pray according to 15 degrees.

I know they would be visiting UK in the Ramadan, and I am sure they will join tarawih and pray it before 15 degrees.

when is Maghrib there and what time is Esha and what time will Tarawih start?

We have Maghrib at 9:05 pm. We have Esha at 10 45 pm and Tarawih will start at 11: 05/ 11:10 pm. We do not reside in UK.

If Mufti Rafi 'Uthmani said its not allowed what more do you want to know of his position?

[JewJoleSole]

when is Maghrib there and what time is Esha and what time will Tarawih start?

We have Maghrib at 9:05 pm. We have Esha at 10 45 pm and Tarawih will start at 11: 05/ 11:10 pm. We do not reside in UK.

If Mufti Rafi 'Uthmani said its not allowed what more do you want to know of his position?

Depends on where you reside. I wonder whether Mufti Rafi still agrees with his fatwa 10 years ago, and what his personal practice is when he visits the UK.

I am SURE he prayers in the summer with jamaat, and wondered whether he repeated his prayer or not.

[stuntduood]

Most of the mosques pray below 15 degrees during summer. I am interested in fatwa from scholars outside of the UK who have allowed such.

Please post fatawa from well-known scholars and madaris from South-Africa, subcontinent, Arab world etc.

I am also extremely interested in the opinion of scholars such as Mufti Desai, Ml. Fazlur Rahman, Mufti Taqi/Rafi etc.

Especially interested in the scholars from Darul Uloom Karachi because they (Mufti Rafi) gave a fatwa that praying below 15 degrees was not allowed.

I know they visited UK quite often and wondered what their practice was.

According to Imaam Abu Hanifa, Isha salaah is at 19 degrees right ? If you set this on the islamicfinder page for Amsterdam it gives:

Maghrib 21:42
Isha 00:26

And for London it gives:

Maghrib: 20:59
Isha: 23:45

[JewJoleSole]

According to Imaam Abu Hanifa, Isha salaah is at 19 degrees right ? If you set this on the islamicfinder page for Amsterdam it gives:

Maghrib 21:42
Isha 00:26

And for London it gives:

Maghrib: 20:59
Isha: 23:45

Read this topic to understand things better: http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...Issue&p=479686

There is no narration about degrees according to Abu Hanifa.

But the later scholars of the past centuries, especially from the subcontinent ruled that 18 degrees is when shafaq abyad (Abu Hanifa) disappears, and 15 degrees when shafaq ahmar (Sahibayn) disappears.

Islamicfinder is a bit unreliable since they have their own calculation during summer months. They also keep on giving times according to 15 or 18 degrees, even when it is not falling. A bit misleading.

According to accurate times in Amsterdam you get the following times:

19 degrees: bright - does not fall
18 degrees: 1:33
15 degrees: 24:10

In London:

19 degrees: bright - does not fall
18 degrees: 00:15
15 degrees: 23:14

[JewJoleSole]

Here another old Fatwa by Darul Uloom Karachi dated from 1998 put online by CCMT in Canada: http://ccmt.jucanada.org/uploads/ima...du-English.pdf

Here they say one is even excused to pray at home alone, even if that means missing the congregation. He also says that Mufti Ludhianwi opted for 12 degrees, and you can research yourself and choose what is evident according to you. But make sure you do not pray Isha before its time.

So how come the Canadian Deobandi Ulama do not agree with praying before 15 degrees but the Deobandi UK Ulama do so?

[Squeernemergo]

Here another old Fatwa by Darul Uloom Karachi dated from 1998 put online by CCMT in Canada: http://ccmt.jucanada.org/uploads/ima...du-English.pdf

Here they say one is even excused to pray at home alone, even if that means missing the congregation. He also says that Mufti Ludhianwi opted for 12 degrees, and you can research yourself and choose what is evident according to you. But make sure you do not pray Isha before its time.

So how come the Canadian Deobandi Ulama do not agree with praying before 15 degrees but the Deobandi UK Ulama do so?

Assalamu alaikum,

Brother in Toronto there are some ulema who agree with 12 degrees but some maybe doing it due to committee pressure. Most of the ulema are only recently shifting to 15 after many years of praying at 12. A

[JewJoleSole]

Assalamu alaikum,

Brother in Toronto there are some ulema who agree with 12 degrees but some maybe doing it due to committee pressure. Most of the ulema are only recently shifting to 15 after many years of praying at 12. A

That is strange. So they were all along praying according to 12 degrees but only recently changed their stance....

I am sure they would not say that one should repeat his prayer, if prayed below 15 degrees, which would automatically mean that they more or less accept its validity.

Still wondering about the personal practicees of the scholars who visit countries such as the UK, Belgium, Germany etc.

Well, I made a choice for myself since Ramadan is coming. When I pray with jamaat I have no choice but to pray below 15 degrees. It is too hard to repeat one's prayer again.

But when I pray alone I will pray after 15 degrees.

[lungumnentibe]

One should ask the 'Ulamaa directly for the reason brother.

Our Mosque is doing both Fajr and 'Isha according to 15 degrees.

[Thunderzee]

No, Imaam Ghazali. It's the correct position. Ma sha' Allah 'alayk, you're lucky. In the UK, they just add an hour to maghrib, it seems, without any scruples. Brother Ansari, I'll be doing the same. However, are you aware as to the rationale/shar'i basis behind permitting salah before 15 degrees? The opinion saying that one can pray 'isha within maghrib time, surely, only applies to when there is no 'Isha time.

[lungumnentibe]

http://www.albalagh.net/qa/fajr_time_NAmerica.shtml