[bypeTeenehalT]

for your arabic knowledge , Shia means "Group" in arabic. and not the sect which you belong to.

We are the Shi'ite of Ali (as), the follower of Ali (as)...

[Ccddfergt]

We are the Shi'ite of Ali (as),

you people destroy the belief/deen of ali(rd)

the follower of Ali (as)...

and whom did ali(rd) followed after the death of prophet ?

[rNr5Di3S]

Now for the Cherry on the Cake. Ali ibn Abi Talib (ra) himself says Abu Bakr(ra), Umar(ra) are the best after Rasoolullah .

Sahih BUKHARI:
Volume 5, Book 57, Number 20:

Narrated Muhammad bin Al-Hanafiya:

I asked my father ('Ali bin Abi Talib(ra)), "Who are the best people after Allah's Apostle ?"
He said, "Abu Bakr(ra)." I asked, "Who then?" He said, "Then 'Umar(ra). "
I was afraid he would say "Uthman(ra), so I said, "Then you?"
He said, "I am only an ordinary person. "

[Phassetus]

السلام عليكم

The Narrations are referring to those hypocrites from his nation and he referred to them as his "Companions" and this does not refer to the "Companions" which we are familiar with today because that word refers in its Istilahi sense refers to the Muslims that accompanied him and died while on Iman. These men in the narration waited until the Prophet SAWS died then they stopped obeying him and stopped practising Zakat amongst other things so the Companions may the peace of Allah be upon them under the leadership of the Rightly guided Caliphs formed an army and fought against them until they returned to the Laws of Allah.

Also if you notice the Prophet SAWS never knew their condition and this is the proof that they were never Muslims because the acts and deeds of the Muslims will be presented in front of the Prophet SAWS to see them on the day of judgement.

Some scholars added that this Hadith also includes the Khawarij whom the Prophet SAWS prophesied about in several narrations and the narration as the Sister pointed out is present in multiple forms for example I add these and there are others:

Narrated Asma 'bint Abu Bakr: The Prophet said, "I will be standing at the Lake-fount so that I will see whom among you will come to me; and some people will be taken away from me, and I will say, 'O Lord, (they are) from me and from my followers.' Then it will be said, 'Did you notice what they did after you? By Allah, they kept on turning on their heels (turned as renegades).' " The sub-narrator, Ibn Abi Mulaika said, "O Allah, we seek refuge with You from turning on our heels, or being put to trial in our religion." (Book #76, Hadith #592)

Narrated Sahl bin Sa'd: I heard the Prophet saying, "I am your predecessor at the Lake-fount (Kauthar), and whoever will come to it, will drink from it, and whoever will drink from it, will never become thirsty after that. There will come to me some people whom I know and they know me, and then a barrier will be set up between me and them." Abu Sa'id Al-Khudri added that the Prophet further said: "I will say those people are from me. It will be said, 'You do not know what changes and new things they did after you.' Then I will say, 'Far removed (from mercy), far removed (from mercy), those who changed (the religion) after me! " (Book #88, Hadith #174)

A minority opinion said that these are the people who continued to do Kabaer (Major Sins) and Bida'ah (Innovations) however this opinion isn't very strong as the Hadiths are clearly talking about those who changed their religion and turned apostate.


In other Sahih versions of this Hadith the Prophet SAWS shouts "أمتي أمتي" "My Nation! My Nation!" and the scholars used this to show that the Hadith is not only talking about the days of the prophet SAWS but about our days as well and about the nation as a whole and not only the people he SAWS met.

Allah also mentioned them in Surat al-Taubah verse 101.


و السلام عليكم و رحمة الله

[rNr5Di3S]

Sahih Bukhari:
Volume 5, Book 57, Number 22:

Narrated Abu Said (ra) :

The Prophet said, "Do not abuse my companions for if any one of you spent gold equal to Uhud (in Allah's Cause)
it would not be equal to a Mud or even a half Mud spent by one of them."

[SpecialOFFER]

As I have established from one of the threads I made quite some time ago that sunnis pretty much accept everything inside sahih bukhari, can you so kindly explain these narrations for me and who they're referring to?







Many thanks

Can I get arabic translation of it please?

[Phassetus]

"Those who believe and do righteous deeds are the best of the creation (Quran 98:7)" was revealed, the Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) said to Ali:

"They are you and your Shia." He continued: "O Ali! (On the day of Judgment) you and your Shia will come toward Allah well-pleased and well-pleasing, and your enemies will come angry with their head forced up. Ali said: "Who are my enemies?" The Prophet (PBUH&HF) replied: "He who disassociates himself from you and curses you. And glad tiding to those who reach first under the shadow of al-'Arsh on the day of resurrection." Ali asked: "Who are they, O the Messenger of Allah?" He replied: "Your Shia, O Ali, and those who love you."

Sunni references:

- al-Hafidh Jamaluddin al-Dharandi, on the authority of Ibn Abbas

- al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar, Ch. 11, section 1, pp 246-247

"O Ali! (On the day of Judgment) you and your Shia will come toward Allah well-pleased and well-pleasing, and there will come to Him your enemies angry and stiff-necked (i.e., their head forced up).

Sunni references:

- al-Tabarani, on the authority of Imam Ali

- al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 11, section 1, p236

All of the twelver Shia sects claim to follow 'Ali (ra) the matter of the fact is the prophet SAWS told us to follow his companions and you'll find that he SAWS does this to praise and compliment his companions, of course the Twelver Shiites take anything that praises 'Ali (ra) and reject the rest out of pure hypocrisy, for example in the Sahih we read:

وروى الإمام أحمد وغيره عن حذيفة قال: كنا عند النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم جلوساً فقال: ((إني لا أدري ما قدر بقائي فيكم فاقتدوا باللذين من بعدي وأشار إلى أبي بكر وعمر وتمسكوا بعهد عمار وما حدثكم ابن مسعود فصدقوه)) Imam Ahmad and others narrated from Hudhayfah bin al Yaman that he said: we were sitting with the Prophet PBUH and he said: I do not know how much longer I will remain with you, so take these two as an example (to follow) after me and he pointed to Abu Bakr and Umar, hold on to Ammar and what ever Ibn Masood narrates (from me) believe him.

source: Narrated by Ahmad, Ibn Majah, ibn Hayyan, Tirmithy, Ibn Abdul Barr, Ibn al mulaqin, Ibn Hajar said it has a good chain and al Albani said SAHIH.

So the Hadiths which you quoted dear sister this is the prophet SAWS telling 'Ali (kw) that you and those who follow you will be in heaven, Thius does not refer to the deviant sects called the Shi'ites especially the Twelvers but it refers to the Muslims who follow 'Ali ibn abi Talib (ra) from the Sahih Hadiths not the fabrications and lies of the Ghulat.

Also remember what the prophet SAWS told 'Ali (ra):

Here Ali (ra) is talking about the two deviant groups, The Shia who love him severely and raise him above his level by claiming that the Imams are better than the Prophets and the Imams are infallible and the Imams know the future, The other group are the Nawasib who have hatred for the family of the Prophet PBUH such as al-Hajjaj bin yusuf al-Thaqafi.
فيك مثل من عيسى أبغضته اليهود حتى بهتوا أمه وأحبته النصارى حتى أنزلوه بالمنزلة التي ليست به ثم قال : يهلك في رجلان محب مفرط يقرظني بما ليس في ومبغض يحمله شنآني على أن يبهتني
الراوي: علي بن أبي طالب المحدث: أحمد شاكر - المصدر: مسند أحمد - الصفحة أو الرقم: 2/355
خلاصة حكم المحدث: إسناده حسن The Prophet PBUH told Ali(ra): "You have an example from Isa (PBUH), the Jews hated him so they wronged his mother and the Christians loved him so they raised him above his status", Ali then said: "Two individuals will be tortured (In Hell) because of me, one who loves me extremely who attributes things to me which do not rightfully belong to me, and a hater who hates me."

Narrator: Ali ibn abi Talib.
Source: Musnad Ahmad 2/355.
Grading: Ahmad Shakir said "Hadith has a good chain of narrators."
قال علي يهلك في رجلان مفرط في حبي و مفرط في بغضي
الراوي: أبو حبرة شيحة بن عبدالله الضبعي المحدث: الألباني - المصدر: تخريج كتاب السنة - الصفحة أو الرقم: 984
خلاصة حكم المحدث: إسناده حسن Ali (ra) said: "Two individuals will be tortured because of me, one who loves me severely and one who hates me severely."

Narrator: Abu Habrah Sheehah bin Abdullah al-Dabi'ee.
Source: Takhreej Kitab al-Sunnah #984.
Grading: al-Albani said "Hadith has a good chain of narrators."

[Phassetus]

We are the Shi'ite of Ali (as), the follower of Ali (as)...

I swear by Allah almighty that you are neither the Shia of 'Ali (ra) nor the followers of 'Ali (ra).

[rNr5Di3S]

Brothers.

[Phassetus]

"
The Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) said:

"The Shia of Ali are the real victorious in the day of resurrection/rising"

Sunni references:

- al-Manaqib Ahmad, as mentioned in:

- Yanabi al-Mawaddah, by al-Qundoozi al-Hanafi, p62

The book Yanabi al-Mawaddah is not a Sunni book, the author is a deviant called " سليمان بن خوجه إبراهيم قبلان الحسيني الحنفي النقشبندي القندوزي" "Suleiman bin Khawjah Ibrahim Kabalan al-Husseini al-Hanafi al-Naqshabandi al-Qundouzi" and this book is unknown amongst the Muslims it has only been printed by " دار الأسوة " "Dar al-Usuwah" in Iran and the book itself is researched by a Shia scholar Sayyed 'Ali Asharf al-Husseini.

Giant Shia scholar Aqa Buzurg al Tehrani says in his book "Al-Tharia'ah fi tasanif al-Shia" that this book is a SHIA BOOK:

الذريعة : آقا بزرگ الطهراني : الجزء25 صفحة290
( 165 : ينابيع المودة لذوي القربى ) للشيخ سليمان بن إبراهيم الحنفي القندوزي البلخي . ط النقشبند ( 1220 - 1294 ) ط . استانبول 1301 في 527 ص ثم في بمبى على الحجر ثم طهران 1308 وبعدها مكررا والمؤلف وإن لم يعلم تشيعه لكنه غنوصي والكتاب يعد من كتب الشيعة . أوله : [ الحمد لله رب العالمين الذي أبدع الوجود . . . ] ويظهر منه أن له في مسألة مودة ذوي القربى كتاب آخر سماه " مشرق الأكوان " . والينابيع مرتب على مقدمة ومائة باب

[Phassetus]

"
Tirmidhi Hadith:6249
Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said, "Allah, Who is Blessed and Exalted has commanded me to love four people, and He has informed me that He loves them." He was asked to name them and said, "Ali is one of them (saying that three times), also AbuDharr, al-Miqdad and Salman. He has commanded me to love them, and He has informed me that He loves them."
Tirmidhi Hadith :6225

Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said, "Paradise is desirous of three people: Ali, Ammar and Salman."

The Hadith of "Ali is one of them (saying that three times), also AbuDharr, al-Miqdad and Salman" is considered very weak, refer to al-Silsilah al-Da'eefah #2171.

The Hadith under it is a little bit better although many graded it as weak and there's nothing strange about the Matn as indeed 'Ali, 'Ammar and Salman (raa) were great men whom Allah loved.

As for The Hadiths you quoted about the cloak and about the 12 Caliphs from Quraysh we already replied to those countless times on the forum and everyone understands the Hadiths no need to waste our time explaining again.

[Phassetus]

The Prophet has always told us not to disassociate ourselves from his Ahul Bayt (as). I prefer the Prince of Believers Ali (as) to anyone else. Read up the events of Ghadeer...

Yes he told us to love his family and not pick 12 people from amongst them and worship them as Gods while cursing the rest.

[heennaRaf]

Well I've got my answer, albeit one which didn't make sense. Good luck with finding the truth guys. A great start would be reading sahih bukhari.

So you are seeing Shia things even in Bukhari Sharif. There must have been very good reasons that this book is not a mainstream book of Shias. Sister give up on falsehood and accept the truth-be a Sunni, that is, one of the Ahl-e-Sunnah Wal Jama'a. These are the Shian-e-Ali (RA).
The online sahih bukhari is a great start. Great that you have got started dear little sister. We have been reading it since before you were born.
May you accept the truth in it.
The things you find in it are truly astonishing. Amuse me dear pony tail-you are sonorous. I am going to scold all these baddies around here who talk ill of you.
Anyhow I'm not gonna waste my time here. What? Just when I had started appreciating the things you do this?
If anyone has any questions here come on shiachat. Now, now sister this is too much. We are inviting you to Jannah and you are inviting to ShiaChat. What wrong have we done to you to deserve this invitation to deviation?
I would post some links here but clearly there's censorship going on. Falsehood is destined to parish-people here are not in favour of prolonging its life. You too should give up that sinking ship. Do you realize that to many of your Shia brothers end up in atheism?
Worry about them. Worry about you.
If you guys were so firm in your beliefs you would let us post any links ... You are missing something here sister. When we are firm in our belief then we'll not host disbelief here. This is how you should argue.
we wish but that's not the case. No hosting of links to deviation here sister and no apology also rendered. Of course you are invited to truth. Allah (SWT) forgives 80 years of sins in exchange for a single recitation of kalima so forgiving deviation of a decade or more will be more likely.

You want to hide the truth just like your forefathers did, ... You have been harping upon the akhlaq of the members here. See what are you displaying here. And we are aware of the history too. And we are also aware of the behind the door goings on in your house holds. This all leads to much to desire dear sister.
just like the ummayads! I'd have preferred a few words about Safawids but may be some one else will do that.
There is always enough light for one who wishes to see - Imam Ali (as). Does (AS) mean AlaihisSalam? If so then it is strange because that phrase is reserved for Prophets (AS) in common parlance. It should not be used for anybody else-for sure it will lead some people to wrong conclusions. These conclusions are too horrible to recount here.

Ciao!

[heennaRaf]

Can I get arabic translation of it please?

Brother you are asking for the original Arabic, right?
Wassalam

[bypeTeenehalT]

So much to answer here. Firstly, I don't accept Sahih Bukhari, I've read many disgusting things in their and many of those who revert back to the path of the Ahlul Bayt (as) would agree. Just a few things in your sahih books which is totally degrading to the Prophet (as) and this is the reason why Muslims are attacked and the reason why Salman Rushdie wrote his book. Where do you think he got all his information from? He clearly got his information from somewhere. So, Aisha was still 'playing with her toys' when the Prophet decided to marry her. Interesting. That hadith was narrated from Aisha herself and she's trying to make herself seem so innocent by saying that she was only a child, unaware of what was taking place when she married the Prophet (saww). Oh and I love the fact that certain sahabas denied the Prophet a pen on his death bed, calling him 'delirious'. Whoever calls my Prophet delirious is not worth a thing. I am awfully sorry that I don't accept those who have continuously degraded my Prophet. And why was Lady Fatima al Zahra angry with a certain sahaba near the time she passed away? This is all in your books guys. Why did a certain sahaba BURN the hadiths which were in favour of The Prince of believer Ali Ibn Abi Talib and when asked why he did that he replied ' the Quran is sufficient for us'. It's so funny that there are barely any narrations in your books from the Prophets DAUGHTER who knew him better than any one else, who lived with him but we see plenty of narrations from Aisha, just something to ponder over. You see my friends, the Shi'ite of Ali (as) has been persecuted for CENTURIES and continue being so. The Ummayad Khalifas would CURSE, yes CURSE Imam Ali (as) after their prayers. How could you follow the likes of Muawiya who fought against Imam Ali (as). Don't you remember the Prophets words?!?!? He said I leave you with two things. The Quran and my Ahlul Bayt (as). Don't you remember the Battle of Jamal???????????? How dare Aisha fight against Imam Ali (as). How could she disobey the Prophet like that. Don't come up with the Ummul Mo'mineen line. When she is referred to that it means that she can't marry anyone else after the Prophet (as).

I am the City of Knowledge and Ali is its Gate. If you want to get (close) to me you have to come through the Gate (Ali)', didn't the Prophet say this yet you have neglected Ali?? Do you really know who is was? I don't think so. You tell me I don't love him well how dare any one say that to me. Let me give you an insight of who he was. He was the one who helped out the orphans, helped out the non muslims, who ate dry bread and water. Who lived a modest life, not an extravagant one. He is the one who didn't eat for 3 DAYS as he gave his food to the beggar who came knocking on his door. He is the one that the Prophet would go to, he would say YA ALI. He is the one whose right was USURPED from him. He is the one who when he was STRUCK in the head whilst in sujood, the first thing he did when he got up, was to give the drink to his killer than himself. They said to him " why? "He replied: " Because he has committed an act, which has made him nervous, give his the drink first'. Whoever this man is doing sujood to, I want to worship as well. If this man is his slave, I want to meet his master. He is the one who gave ZAKAT whilst in ruku ( 5:55-6 ). He is the one who slept in the Prophets bed to save him. Oh and did I forget to mention that he was BORN IN THE KA'ABA.

Read the events of Ghadeer Khum, from a Shia perspective. It's only logical that after the Prophets demise he would leave a successor in place and not let the people choose for themselves. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b90bAPS7Qjk > WATCH FROM 20 MINUTES ON WARDS. If you want to seek for the truth you would watch it. The Prophet was always a MESSENGER, he didn't just figure this out after 40 years. He always knew that he was a messenger but kept silent until God commanded him to tell people. Are you guys trying to say that the seal of the Prophets was totally clueless of this?? lol. Now that is funny. In your sahih books it claims that he, the PROPHET wanted to COMMIT SUICIDE as he didn't know what to make out of the revelations. He would be so scared that he almost disbelieved in them. Wow such a Prophet of Islam. He would think that Shaytans whispers were revelations. If this is the Prophet of Islam who can't distinguish on who is giving the revelation then how would you expect him to lead the Muslim Ummah. This is ALL in your OWN SAHIH books.

You guys claim you love Ali whilst loving Muawiya? How can you love the oppressor as well as loving the oppressed. How absurd is that. Also, please read up the events of Karbala. I don't know what to say anymore, I've done my bit. Maybe everyone here is going to ridicule me, but if one person out of all of you reads this and does more research on Shias then that's good. I don't expect to change your views, I just wanted to present of we Shias feel. You can continue calling us misguided or what not, only in the Day of Judgement will we find out the truth.

Just a note here, we don't 'worship' our 12 Imams, nor do we 'blindly' follow our scholars.

[Dumpishchaism]

Nice acting. You're such a blind people.

[heennaRaf]

Firstly, I don't accept Sahih Bukhari, ...

Dear Follower of Mahatma Gandhi,
Your frequent forays to this site are very touching.
And then you give us a shock also.
In the Last Sermon beloved Prophet (PBUH) expressly told us that the things he is leaving behind is the Holy Qur'an and his Sunnah. Latter include the Hadith. Now you are rejecting the most trusted collection of Hadith. So what do you expect of us? We'll drop our Hadith books and start walking behind a chooni mooni from the Land of Ahl-e-Tashi'a?
Wassalam

[bypeTeenehalT]

Dear Follower of Mahatma Gandhi,
Your frequent forays to this site are very touching.
And then you give us a shock also.
In the Last Sermon beloved Prophet (PBUH) expressly told us that the things he is leaving behind is the Holy Qur'an and his Sunnah. Latter include the Hadith. Now you are rejecting the most trusted collection of Hadith. So what do you expect of us? We'll drop our Hadith books and start walking behind a chooni mooni from the Land of Ahl-e-Tashi'a?
Wassalam

You clearly didn't read a word I said, as expected. In the Last Sermon he said:
I am leaving for you two precious things and if you adhere both of them, you will never go astray after me. They are the Book of Allah and my progeny, that is my Ahlul-Bayt. The two shall never separate from each other until they come to me by the Pool (of Paradise).

The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him and his progeny)
then continued: “Do I not have more right over the believers
than what they have over themselves?” The people cried
out: “Yes, O' Messenger of God.” Then Prophet then held
up the hand of ‘Ali and said:
“For whoever I am his leader (Mawla), ‘Ali is his leader
(Mawla). “O Allah! Love those who love ‘Ali, and be
the enemy of the enemy of ‘Ali; help him who helps
‘Ali, and forsake him who forsakes Ali."

[bypeTeenehalT]

Nice acting. You're such a blind people.

Acting? lol. Sure, everything I wrote was me acting. Answer my questions, Do you actually think that the Prophet was unaware of his Prophethood during all his 40 years? Why does Aisha make herself seen vulnerable in your hadiths? Why did the Prophet want to commit suicide? Why did he have doubts in the revelations? I don't expect any answers. Blind faith is such a bad thing. Once you let go of your emotions and attatchement to certain people then you will see the truth.

[Dumpishchaism]

I don't expect any answers. Blind faith is such a bad thing. Once you let go of your emotions and attatchement to certain people then you will see the truth.

This is exactly what we think about you, that is why we don't answer you.
In short, to you your deen, to us our deen, simple as that.
Now why you come to this forum exposing you point of view and debating when you are not ready to learn calmly ?