[TineSeign]

salaam

I read this:

"The position of the Shi`a is indentical with that of the Mu`tazila, who denied not only the Pre-existent status of the Divine Speech, but of all the Divine Attributes for they considered that they are the same as the Essence."

http://www.sunnah.org/aqida/uncreatedness_quran.htm

What is the position of Ahlusunnah on this issue?

[MannoFr]

salaam

I read this:

"The position of the Shi`a is indentical with that of the Mu`tazila, who denied not only the Pre-existent status of the Divine Speech, but of all the Divine Attributes for they considered that they are the same as the Essence."

http://www.sunnah.org/aqida/uncreatedness_quran.htm

What is the position of Ahlusunnah on this issue?

Assalamualaikum wa rahmatullah

InshaAllah wait for more knowledgeable brothers to answers this question but basically isn't the position in a very basic understanding as follows...

Allah's attributes are not the same as his essence but they are not separate such that you can call them different entities because if that was the case then we would have the issue of multiple entities which are pre-eternal and that is obviously not correct. So the way of Ahl Sunnah is the middle way such that we don't negate the attributes nor do we say they are completely separate entities.

is my understanding correct?

Wa'Allahu Alam

[TineSeign]

Assalamualaikum wa rahmatullah

InshaAllah wait for more knowledgeable brothers to answers this question but basically isn't the position in a very basic understanding as follows...

Allah's attributes are not the same as his essence but they are not separate such that you can call them different entities because if that was the case then we would have the issue of multiple entities which are pre-eternal and that is obviously not correct. So the way of Ahl Sunnah is the middle way such that we don't negate the attributes nor do we say they are completely separate entities.

is my understanding correct?

Wa'Allahu Alam

This makes Allah divisible.

[MannoFr]

This makes Allah divisible.

How so? So your saying attributes and essence are one and the same?

[Liskaspexia]

This makes Allah divisible.

Assalam alaykum jive,

I think the the way zaidf expresses it is correct (in accordance with hanafi belief) and does not subject Allah SWT to divisibility. Also, that Divine Speech is uncreated through Allah's attributes.

(Still waiting for more knowledgeable posters...)

Wassalam

[Liskaspexia]

How so? So your saying attributes and essence are one and the same?

Assalam alaykum zaidf,

I have been reading about this very subject in a book called Al-Fiqh al-Akbar Explained and I think you are on the right track, so don't let yourself become subject to doubts about it.

Wassalam

[furious1]

yep, Zaid and Saeed are right according to our belief. of course, the salafis will beg to differ.

[bertanu]

Correct me if I am wrong but:

1. Attributes are that which describes Allah
2. Essence is the core of what Allah "is," and if I remember correctly, mercy/existence is the essence of Allah...not sure on that though.

[furious1]

mercy/existence is the essence of Allah...not sure on that though. mercy?

Actually, on second thought, I have indeed heard that Allah's wujud is jud (losely translated as generosity) but we'd rather not go there, I think. We've been forbidden to reflect on Allah's dhat ('essence') for a reason.

[Crazykz]

السلام عليكم

Do not have this discussion.