[Ekzamenov]

In the early 70's there were 2 publications around:

Awake to the call of islam: very much in the style of the mujlis in terms of the tone adopted in the articles.

The muslim digest: under the auspices of ml abdul aleem sidiqque

The mujlis as stated by mufti saheb started in the late 70's

I have 10 copies of the first 2 and they are quite an interesting read.

wasn't Awake a publication of Ml.Desai.If that's the case,then am I correct to say that his first publication was awake which started in the early 70's and The Majlis which started in the late 70's.
I'd be interested in seeing the first publications.
Also wasn't Ml.Siddiqi(r.a.) a student of Hazrat ahmed raza khan a.k.a a'la hajrat--did he also receive ijazah(tasawwuf) from hazrat raza.

was salaam

[cl004]

The Majlis started in 1978, the year I was born : )

Sorry for getting a bit off track but we have a valuable piece of information here.

We have finally managed to know Mufti Husain's age and he is very young indeed

May Allah grant him the tawfiq to serve this ummat for many more decades to come, Ameen!

[Ekzamenov]

Sorry for getting a bit out of track, but we have here a valuable piece of information.

Mufti Husain is very young, Masha Allah. May Allah grant him the tawfiq to serve this ummat for many more decades to come, Ameen!

Ameen,thumma Ameen!

[FrereeDoulley]

Slm,

Bro SASLAMS requested me to post the following on his behalf (due to his internet being down.)

Before I say anything I would like to openly make taubah & ask the forgiveness of Allah from my part & the part of all those who spoke badly of the a’lim in question. My emotions ran away with me over the past few days. & even though I really don’t like the stuff that comes out of the majlis, as a student I should be like the ground & let the strong & the weak walk upon me. & like the rain in that it rains on all, the pious & the evil.



I just hate it that an a’lim who is not qualified in a certain field decides to read & write papers according to his interpretation of the text. Being a follower & student or scholar of the Hanafi madhab does not make one qualified to pass judgment for the shawafi’. We need to understand the concept of a chain in transmission. Many a time a few rulings are not found in the kitaab but passed down from teacher to student orally & thus not allowing the non shafi’ a’lim in this case to grasp the whole idea. A hanafi a’lim can not pick up a book by Imaam ibn Hajar RA & claim that his interpretation from the book is correct & all the shawafi’ ulama are incorrect. Then we would be just like the salafi/wahabi who pick up a hadith & try to implement it without understanding the entire ruling. In traditional islam are we not of the opinion that knowledge is passed down from Rasulullah SAWS to the sahaba all the way down to the mujtahideen & then all the way down to our teachers & then to us the students, who will pass the inheritance to the next generation? So if an alim did not study under a qualified alim in the madhab how does he just quote randomly from kitaabs. Knowledge is not found in books, you can only inherit from the possessor.



As far as difference in opinion goes. If only all of us understood & implemented this idea. Wallahi the Muslims would be in a much better position. Im sure if the two Schools Berelwi & Deoband were to agree to disagree on some issues we wouldn’t have the major split we have today resembling sectarianism. What were two differences- which should have been respected- were not, turned into an argument, created extremism, which resulted in outright bida’ on one end & intolerance on the other. This is how those of us who are not affiliated to either of the two see it. Our shuyukh always say that they respect both schools & it is up to us, the younger generation to try & bring them together with understanding. Our sheikh wrote a beautiful write up on Ahmad Raza Khan RA & at the same time when visiting India lives in the house of the Amir of the tabligh (sorry I don’t know his name), our sheikh’s father wrote the index for hayatus sahabah as he was good friends with the respected author- & we all know that the father of habib Umar as habib Umar & all the other ulama of the region are all people of mauled. This is a perfect example of respecting differences in opinion, not the stuff that we see in Darul ulooms & circles of ulama bodies today- where people have to defend their madhab.



-still on difference of opinion. I remember clearly in one of the publications of the majlis that it was stated that the MJC is suppose to be shafi’ but they don’t even know the ruling of slaughter according to their own madhab. They say that it mandoob when it is wajib to say the basmallah. Now you quoted in other threads Ibn naqib alMisri Ra. In his kitaab he mentions that it is mandoob at the time of slaughter. However I don’t think that you would find a Shafi’ who would not recite the basmallah, because the ulmah kept the hukum away from the general public out of rahmah in that other madhabs hold it as wajib. It’s the same with the leadership in salah-beard is not an issue with shafi’s but the elected imam always grows his beard for the sake of rahmah with our brothers the ahnaaf.

I would like you to check the same majlis pages about the fatwa on cutting hair for ladies. In the article there is a scholar who is referred to as the deviant. Or just do a google search for Moulan turned sheikh. This is how ml Taha keran is described in one publication for allowing a woman to cut her hair for the sake of relieving tension causing migraines. When the words moulana turned sheikh is use to describe his skill in deriving a ruling we need to understand what is really being said. Ml Taha is one of the best students if not the best student ever to complete at deoban- academically. he ran away from the madrasah to avoid the graduation ceremony & found himself in Egypt studying again before returning to SA . So ml turned sheikh is saying that he left his deoband masalak for the relaxed Egyptian masalak.



I don’t know about the rest of the SF brothers & sisters but it seems as if you saying that South Africa was totally upside down as far as deen is concerned before the majlis came on to the scene. Are you speaking for the ahnaaf here or for muslims in general because I can tell you either way you wrong. None of the books that we were taught from in the maktab came from the majlis, I don’t know about the ahnaaf though, maybe the ahnaaf of SA could comment. You are saying that all the ulama before 1970 were not doing their jobs right, or there were no a’lims at all & the people were stuck in ghaflah. I for one did not learn ghusal, aqeedah & salah from the majlis & I doubt every hanafi in SA would agree with you. Im not saying that nobody benefited from the Mufti & the majlis & may Allah reward him for his effort. We just need to remember that we can’t go general on this because it’s as if there were no true muslims before the majlis, meaning that all our grandparents & great grandparents & our bidati ancestors (for those of us who have muslim roots in SA going further than 300 years) are all heading for jahannam due to their bidah & ghaflah, after all they had sound knowledge before they came here.



Ya akhi I didn’t say that you should not consider a particular scholar- if the majlis is your cup of tea then so be it but don’t make their ruling on an issue the ruling for the ummah. & just to tell you that the book written by ibn Naqib RA only uses the word makroo for woman using the masjid. Now if we understood the shafi’ madhab makroo mean jaiz but disliked. But still jaiz. For younger women & more attractive women there is a tendency that leads towards haraam if not haraam. But in this present day could we hold a ruling like that since the men & woman do not share the same floor anymore in most cases.



On the use of “vark vleis” guys vark vleis, for those of you who don’t know, is Afrikaans for pig meat. Muslims don’t use the word vark unless they are speaking Afrikaans. Its worse than saying pig-even Afrikaans muslims call them Porkies just to be a bit polite. On articles the ulama of SANHA were accuses of feeding the muslims “vark vleis” - & it was an English article- & to use this in an Eglish article is just like swearing. Any muslim would find that word really ugly & disrespectful on a scholarly article. The ulama send out mails to the public defaming other scholars & the recipients send them to their contact lists. & then the whole world knows that Ml Nawlaki wears a petticoat under his kurta. Know you tell me if that is the behavior of our ulama what character are we suppose to adopt. & then we wonder why kids in madrasah can tell an a’lim that you must do what we say because we pay you to be here, we wonder why people have no respect for the ulamah.



I noticed that the chicken thing was mentioned. Well the claim against sanha is that it is not possible to slaughter 48 chickens in a minute. Well it is possible for one man to slaughter ten on track moving the chicken for him, Maybe more. The men slaughtering, slaughter in groups & thus can easily slaughter the 48. To claim something haraam without real proof, using a cheap scandal about supervisors resigning because the chickens are haraam is baseless especially if the supervisor came on to the public radio to say that the chickens are halaal & he left for personal reasons.



I would like to once again ask for my forgiveness firstly & on behalf of anyone who slandered the respected mufti. May Allah forgive us. The way I behaved is not the character of a student of the habaib who exercise tolerance within their madhab/manhaj & with the other madhabs. A friend of mine who is a student of Ml Taha told me that even though Ml Taha was disrespect & criticized by the majlis we should still respect the mufti for his great humbleness & islaah.

[theatadug]

I make an effrot not to take part in condemning any aalim for that matter.

my above post is in defence of an aalim of the deen and Allah will reward me for it.


was salaam.

and Insha Allah you will be rewarded bro Mathbooh. Glad to see this post with someone standing up for the Ulama

We owe all the Ulama (or their parents as in the case of the father of our respected Shaykh Muhammad Saleem Dhorat) to such an extent that we will never be able to repay them...especially those who started years ago in Africa and the UK to bring the Deen to us when we were so far behind lost in jaahiliyah. May Allah ta'ala reward them all on our behalf, aameen.

[theatadug]

This gives me an opportunity to say that unfortunately there is too much tendency to be (along with strongly worded disagreements on Deeni matters) actually critical of the Ulama. Certain discussions are totally irrelevant and when they get out of hand the thread gets closed - too late as far as i'm concerned since its after all has been said and done! I often wonder how it looks to the non Muslims who visit the forum

[Ekzamenov]

Slm,

Bro SASLAMS requested me to post the following on his behalf (due to his internet being down.)
................................................
I would like to once again ask for my forgiveness firstly & on behalf of anyone who slandered the respected mufti. May Allah forgive us. The way I behaved is not the character of a student of the habaib who exercise tolerance within their madhab/manhaj & with the other madhabs. A friend of mine who is a student of Ml Taha told me that even though Ml Taha was disrespect & criticized by the majlis we should still respect the mufti for his great humbleness & islaah.

Unfortunately for you brother Abdouragmaan,the body of your message betrays it's intro and conclusion.I will not even attempt to respond to most of the points made by you,suffice to say that I can argue with you from now to qiyamah to prove who is right/wrong.

However,there are a few things I feel I'd like to clarify here.

You might not know,but in the days when Islamic literature were few and far between,and many of us were not yet born,and when most of our parents and grandparents were ignorant of the deen,and when the community was completely infested with bid'aat,those were the days when majlis was either translating/publishing/authoring books on aqidah,fiqh,ahlaaq e.t.c. which were used to teach children in madressah or which were used in the publishing of later books by others.The days when ulama were not open against bid'aat e.t.c. those were the days majlis openly condemned it,and today we are where we are.multitudes learnt how to perform salaah,ghusl and aqidah from the efforts of the majlis in S.A. and abroad.He even spent time in prison and had his liberties curtailed because of his service to the deen.As far as I am concerned,I won't take part in condemning the man and I make an effrot not to take part in condemning any aalim for that matter.Majlis has nothing to prove to anyone,he has done his fair share for the ummah.
Brother,I think you have some pretty serious comprehension issues.I stated 'many of us'.NOT all of us.I spoke of us,meaning myself and those in S.A. who I've interacted with among the ahnaaf.I spoke about 'our community',not 'our country'.I also stated that 'multitudes' have benefited through the efforts of the majlis.I stated that the 'days when Ulama where not open against bid'aat' and subsequently stated that 'those were the days when majlis openly condemned it'.Now anybody with a sound and functioning aql would understand that I DID NOT STATE THAT THE ULAMA WERE NOT AGAINST BID'AT BUT RATHER THAT ML.DESAI CONDEMNED THE BID'AAT MUCH MORE OPENLY THAN THE ULAMA. The only explanation I can think of,is that you have very warped and twisted mind filled with hatred that brings you to this conclusion:

I don’t know about the rest of the SF brothers & sisters but it seems as if you saying that South Africa was totally upside down as far as deen is concerned before the majlis came on to the scene. Are you speaking for the ahnaaf here or for muslims in general because I can tell you either way you wrong. None of the books that we were taught from in the maktab came from the majlis, I don’t know about the ahnaaf though, maybe the ahnaaf of SA could comment. You are saying that all the ulama before 1970 were not doing their jobs right, or there were no a’lims at all & the people were stuck in ghaflah. I for one did not learn ghusal, aqeedah & salah from the majlis & I doubt every hanafi in SA would agree with you. Im not saying that nobody benefited from the Mufti & the majlis & may Allah reward him for his effort. We just need to remember that we can’t go general on this because it’s as if there were no true muslims before the majlis, meaning that all our grandparents & great grandparents & our bidati ancestors (for those of us who have muslim roots in SA going further than 300 years) are all heading for jahannam due to their bidah & ghaflah, after all they had sound knowledge before they came here The jist of what I've stated in my post,is that majlis played a very major role in the deeni education of the ulama and awaam,whether it be QnA's or books or papers e.t.c. and that he was at the forefront of fighting bid'aat and modernists,orientilists e.t.c. for the past few decades,if not anywhere else than at least amongst the ahnaaf of S.A.,whether you willing to accept that or not.

was salaam

[ligeplodore]

In the late 70's another publication that was around was called Izhaarul Haq or "The truth revealved"

and then Ar Rashaad was also around during that time.

The Young mens muslim association has been associated with the Majlis for a long time, in fact many of the books of the majlis have been published by this very organisation.

In fact the addition of the 'Awake..." that i have in front of me is dated Oct 74.

The first article is called ' Beware False Reformers ' and it makes reference to Ml Abdul Aleem Siddique as being one such ' Reformer ' the article also talks about women in the musjid, Slinging mud at the ulama, taqleed , University degree no criterion etc...

I'm inclined to beleive that Ml AS Desai was the author of the 'Awake...'

The proof is in the style, tone and topic.

[GooogleGuy]

Slm,Bro SASLAMS requested me to post the following on his behalf (due to his internet being down.)

I noticed that the chicken thing was mentioned. Well the claim against sanha is that it is not possible to slaughter 48 chickens in a minute. Well it is possible for one man to slaughter ten on track moving the chicken for him, Maybe more.

hmmm 48 chickens r believable but 120 - 130 in a minute when there are 3 slaughters? that i dont believe

& btw thats not the only reason it could be haram..
#2. before slaughterd all the birds r stunned..sometime this causes them to have heart attacks or warreva..
after stunning b4 slaughter, the birds R NOT checkd, so they could be dead or they could be alive..

#3. because they r cuttin so many, sometimes(est. 20%) they dont do a proper job & the chickns r stil alive, then when they r thrown into the boiling water, they start flappin, meaning that they wer nt dead, sometimes THIS is what kills them..

not all of these chickens r haram, bt some r, n how do u no which 1 u eating?

sometimes i think maybe this is why the muslims is SA are how they r, they hav the knowledge bt most dont implement it into their lives, coz they hav been fed haram which makes ones iman weak

seems like u not a big fan of ML desai, bt thik u should listen to him on this matter, consuming haram/halal is an important matter.

[Ekzamenov]

Almost like a conspiracy :P

any info ?

was salaam

[Dxwlxqvg]

Sorry for getting a bit off track but we have a valuable piece of information here.

We have finally managed to know Mufti Husain's age and he is very young indeed

May Allah grant him the tawfiq to serve this ummat for many more decades to come, Ameen!

Ameen. I'm sure there was a wikipdia page on him before. Has it been deleted or something.

[GoveMoony]

Moulana Desai is 70 years old and under no medication. This I found out from my brother who is studying at the Madressa in De Deur which is run by Mufti Hashim Boda. Moulana Desai spends alot of time at the madressa on occasions. My brother always mentions the Ibaa'dah of Moulana and the work he does, something really special, Alhumdu'lillah.

[PrettyFifa12]

Moulana Desai is 70 years old and under no medication. This I found out from my brother who is studying at the Madressa in De Deur which is run by Mufti Hashim Boda. Moulana Desai spends alot of time at the madressa on occasions. My brother always mentions the Ibaa'dah of Moulana and the work he does, something really special, Alhumdu'lillah.

could we have some more insight into his daily life etc... would be great

[GoveMoony]

I do not have exact details. My brother just tells me a few things about Moulana sometimes. I will ask him for further details. From what he has told me before I will mention. Moulana's Ibaa'dah schedule is very hectic taking into account his age. He would make Ibaa'dah into the early hours of the morning. Besides this Moulana writes most of the articles, statements, books, we see under the name of The Majlis. The language that Moulana utilises at times is of a very high English. This is remarkable as he didn't attend school (to my knowledge). Also, Moulana runs thousands of maktabs in Bangladesh and other countries.

I'll need more information from my brother, he Alhumdulillah has a good relationship with Moulana.

On a side note. Mufti AK of Cii on the sehri programme the day before Eid whilst speaking on Sunnahs for Eid said that women should not attend the Eid Gah and mentioned that the book written by Moulana Desai refuting the article that a certain female "scholar" wrote on the topic should be consulted. The Ulama in general have alot of respect for Moulana Desai and his true worth we will only know after he is gone. May Allah guide us!

[Ekzamenov]

This is remarkable as he didn't attend school (to my knowledge).

bro,I think u might be mistaken.as for Ml's age,I think he is 71 indeed.

was salaam

[replicamuse]

hmmm 48 chickens r believable but 120 - 130 in a minute when there are 3 slaughters? that i dont believe

& btw thats not the only reason it could be haram..
#2. before slaughterd all the birds r stunned..sometime this causes them to have heart attacks or warreva..
after stunning b4 slaughter, the birds R NOT checkd, so they could be dead or they could be alive..

#3. because they r cuttin so many, sometimes(est. 20%) they dont do a proper job & the chickns r stil alive, then when they r thrown into the boiling water, they start flappin, meaning that they wer nt dead, sometimes THIS is what kills them..

not all of these chickens r haram, bt some r, n how do u no which 1 u eating?

sometimes i think maybe this is why the muslims is SA are how they r, they hav the knowledge bt most dont implement it into their lives, coz they hav been fed haram which makes ones iman weak

seems like u not a big fan of ML desai, bt thik u should listen to him on this matter, consuming haram/halal is an important matter.

Im sorry but I dont think you know the entire story. as far as the ulama body & supervisor at the slaughter house in question are concerned. there are two groups of slaughteres. each group slaughters for 15-20 min then takes a rest for 15-20 min while the other group slaughters. I dont know where you get the number from, maybe Im wrong-but I know that it isnt more than one 100 per min for the whole group of 15.

anyone that has seen a chicken will know that it doesnt take much to cut the head off with the first cut. so the statement of not cutting proper is baseless. if they wanted they could have just choped the head off with a cleaver-it is only makroo & still makes the meat halaal.

not animal is stuned in SA, maybe in non muslim slaughter house they stunned but not with halaal meat. i dont know where you heard that. however some ulama have said that it is permissable as long as the animal does not die.

even if you chop a chickens head off it will still start flapping. have you never been to an udhiyah-sometimes the sheep thats head is hanging from a piece of skin starts kicking after being dead for 10 min. I think you should go to a farm & see for yourself.

its not about being a fan. but we dont make haraam what is halaal. I dont think Ml Desai was at any of the farms in JHB to actualy see for himself.

does anyone know about the law suit. is it over.

[Ekzamenov]

Im sorry but I dont think you know the entire story. as far as the ulama body & supervisor at the slaughter house in question are concerned. there are two groups of slaughteres. each group slaughters for 15-20 min then takes a rest for 15-20 min while the other group slaughters. I dont know where you get the number from, maybe Im wrong-but I know that it isnt more than one 100 per min for the whole group of 15.

anyone that has seen a chicken will know that it doesnt take much to cut the head off with the first cut. so the statement of not cutting proper is baseless. if they wanted they could have just choped the head off with a cleaver-it is only makroo & still makes the meat halaal.

not animal is stuned in SA, maybe in non muslim slaughter house they stunned but not with halaal meat. i dont know where you heard that. however some ulama have said that it is permissable as long as the animal does not die.

even if you chop a chickens head off it will still start flapping. have you never been to an udhiyah-sometimes the sheep thats head is hanging from a piece of skin starts kicking after being dead for 10 min. I think you should go to a farm & see for yourself.

its not about being a fan. but we dont make haraam what is halaal. I dont think Ml Desai was at any of the farms in JHB to actualy see for himself.

does anyone know about the law suit. is it over.

bro,it's no use going into this argument.let's agree to disagree.as far as I'm concerned there was evidence to prove otherwise.the court case is ongoing.
I think it would do you good if you consider the viewpoints of each side from their original sources.The following might help:


http://www.thejamiat.co.za/images/sh...shariah1.5.pdf
http://www.thejamiat.co.za/images/sh...shariah1.6.pdf

was salaam

[GooogleGuy]

Im sorry but I dont think you know the entire story. as far as the ulama body & supervisor at the slaughter house in question are concerned. there are two groups of slaughteres. each group slaughters for 15-20 min then takes a rest for 15-20 min while the other group slaughters. I dont know where you get the number from, maybe Im wrong-but I know that it isnt more than one 100 per min for the whole group of 15..

watch this with audio...

http://www.thechickentruth.comuf.com/

there are many video's here but they explain what goes on in these slaughr houses..

[RSAccountssy]

السلام عليكم,

Man, whenever we have these threads on 'ulama in SA and other places, I get so jealous... You guys are really lucky that live around, have family members who are and know, and interact with great 'ulama so easily...

[BV6lwvXf]

السلام عليكم,

Man, whenever we have these threads on 'ulama in SA and other places, I get so jealous... You guys are really lucky that live around, have family members who are and know, and interact with great 'ulama so easily...

It's true. Unfortunately though, sometimes when good things are around, you begin to take them for granted. Like for eg last year was the first ever time I saw a sheep/ox get slaughtered, and I was totally awed, but when I looked at the children, they were chattering as usual and having a lekker time. I couldn't help wondering that whether they were lucky to have been able to spend an Eedul Adhaa like the one I had every year, or whether I was the lucky one not to have spend Eedul Adhaa like that all my life, only to be desensitized when I grew up.

Although there is some hope: Yesterday I was reading one of my grade 1 student's project of sheep, in one page he wrote about his pet sheep Lala, and how he would be slaughtered for Qurbaani, and how he (my student) will be crying.