[enfoires]

Ibn Mikael, as a convert you spent some time as a the kuffar, so i think you have a good perspective for the question I'm going to ask. I'm wondering, and I do so with full sincerity, why is it that you think we will never accept Muslims? Is it something that needs to change in us in you or both?

I would say both. The problem as I see it is that Muslims are essentially damned if they do and damned if they don't. There's no real way to win. If you present yourself as an open-minded, caring Muslim they simply think you're a Muslim who doesn't really follow Islam. The best example I can give is that of the Mormons within the US. I grew up around Mormons all my life, I live near a Mormon church, I had a Mormon roommate in college, and as such I know that they're generally very decent people. I might disagree with their ideology, but in no way would that lead me to demonize them as a people. However, most Americans don't feel this way. American sentiment towards Mormons is about as low as it is towards Muslims. Now answer me this: if a people who have the most effective charitable organization operating within the US, who are so upbeat and friendly that's it's almost creepy, who have never engaged in serious violent activities within recent memory, who receive generally positive press coverage...if these people cannot be accepted by the west, then how can you seriously think Muslims have much of a chance? People hate Mormons in large part because they USED to practice polygamy. Used to. Not anymore--the orthodox Mormon church outlawed it a long long time ago. How do you expect these same Christians to accept Islam, which not only proudly endorses polygamy as a viable option, but which also allows for far more controversial practices such as people under the age of 18 (the standard, nonsensical Western age of adulthood)being able to marry? It's simply asking for too much. But who knows...I don't ask for them to "accept" Islam, but to merely allow me to practice it within this country as I see fit without them harassing me.

[Rememavotscam]

Ibn Mikael, I'm going to be brief because I don't have a lot of time right now but I want to come back and have a back and forth, if you're up to it. The Mormon example to build your thought looks to be a generalization and could be accused of being an attempt at diversion. There are two Mormons running for President, both contenders, one the front runner for the republicans, so I'd say American sentiment to Mormons is high enough to accommodate that reality. Anyway, like qadians and the Baha'i, the Mormons have a sacred history that stretches back shortly and therefore can be contridicted easier with historical fact. Their beliefs are scrutinized because of this, yes, but I'd say the antagonism that american Christians have to the heretical christian sect is far less than the antagonism that Muslims have to the heretical Muslim sect. Would a Qadaian Muslim be able to run for the President of Pakistan? Anyway, you say that Muslims have some work to do as well to better eliminate the distrust from the Kuffar. What do you believe your community has to do? And what is it about the Kuffar that, by their nature, makes them an impediment to better understanding?

[sueplydup]

This thread has gone off track.
America and Europe are enemies of Islam as long as Islam is THOUGHT OF AS A COMPLETE WAY OF LIFE THAT INCLUDES A UNIQUE BODY OF LAW WITH ITS OWN RULING SYSTEM, ITS OWN ECONOMIC SYSTEM, ITS OWN JUDICIAL SYSTEM, ITS OWN FOREIGN POLICY, ITS OWN WORLDVIEW.

If Muslims CHOOSE to alter Islam to be merely a "religion" like any other religion today, then that new, altered 'religion' which submits to the whims of Man, which worships Man, then it would be tolerated in America as Mormonism, or Sikhism, or any other. But it would require altering Islam to suit the interests, beliefs, ideologies of American ruling establishment.

But the TRUE ISLAM, a complete way of life which does NOT submit to Western, manmade ideological conquest, continues to frighten the enemies of Islam and threatens their dominion over the world and their plans for continual domination over all the people of the world.

Sudan is just one front of this conflict. And the secession of south Sudan is just one small victory which the West have been perpetrating for some time. Britain did indeed instigate and accentuate the divisions and differences between the peoples of Sudan for their own aims. America along with Israel later capitalized on that. And they will likely do so again.

As long as Muslims go to the enemies of Islam for guidance, judgement, help, (UN Security Council, NATO, Arab League, ICC, World Bank, etc) , and turn away from following Islam as a complete way of life, then they will continue to succumb to this humiliation.


As long as Muslims ALLOW THEMSELVES to be dominated by the enemies of Islam BY REFUSING TO FOLLOW THE QURAN AND SUNNAH, THEN THEY CAN EXPECT TO BE HUMILIATED, DIVIDED, CONQUERED, USURPED, OPPRESSED.


The issue can be boiled down to the fundamental question:

WORSHIP WESTERN MAN OR WORSHIP THE ONE TRUE GOD AND LORD OF THE WORLDS: ALLAH AWJ.