[casinobonusnolimit]

...

[fount_pirat]

All,

I would like to revisit this issue and not from a Fiqh but a social perspective. I am not a very politically correct person so I am not going to put a disclaimer that I don’t mean to disrespect people with short beards and Muslimahs who don’t wear Hijab because it is understood that as a Muslim it’s not my job to judge anyone.

It is also not important to discuss those who can’t grow long beards because it is also understood.

Here I want to discuss brothers who can and do grow long beards and Muslimahs who wear a Niqab.
Lately, there has been a barrage of discussions on the media, on forums about the length of Beards and Niqab. Traditional Muslims have weighed in with “differences of opinions within Madhabs”, unfortunately most of these discussions are out of context!

The categorisation of “obligation vs. non-obligation” within Madhabs and the relevant Academic discussions don’t mean that the Madhahib frown upon “long flowing beards or Muslimahs covering their faces” but extensive details on the matter will take us away from discussing the social impact of these practises.

Having a long beard (for men) and having face covered (for Muslimahs) constitutes a “STATEMENT” and creates a barrier between them and certain acts of Fahishah, forces a certain lifestyle and inhibits integration.

Brothers with nice trendy beards can quickly blend in at movie theatres, clubs and other places while a person with a long flowing beard will “think twice” before being seen at these places. At work place as soon as you walk into a meeting with a long flowing beard everybody knows that you are different and you are instantly recognised as such.

Sisters who chose to don the Niqab know that they will have problems at their work place (should they chose to work) therefore their men folks will have to “become the man of the house and provide as dictated in the Qur’aan”. Moreover wearing a Niqab often goes with long flowing black robes which means that Sisters can’t wear attractive (multi-coloured scarves and attractive outer garments).

The minute you remove these “outer practises” the first physical boundary of integration is breached. There has been a concerted effort in Muslim & Non-Muslim lands to create doubts about these obvious physical and salient features of Islam to foster “integration”.

In order to integrate two things need to happen:

1. Mentally the psychological barrier between Islam & Kuf’r needs to be breached and this is also being done by not discussion or putting a spin on “Al-Wara Wal-Bara”
2. Physically the barriers have to be removed

Shaytaan is clever and he is picked on the right theme and knows that there are some “Academic differences in Islamic Shariah on these matters” so even the most sincere and innocent Muslims will fall for this and weigh in with "Academic discussions".

Browsing old pictures & sketches of Muslim lands tells a very clear story of how men and women dressed and behaved even a 100 years ago so, let alone in the time of the Salaf and the later centuries.

Lastly, I would like to make dua for them who want to don the Niqab and live a life as dictated in the following verse of the Qur’aan:

[33:33] Remain in your homes, and do not display (your) beauty as it used to be displayed in the days of earlier ignorance; and establish Salah, and pay Zakah, and obey Allah and His messenger. Allah only intends to keep (all sorts of) filth away from you, O members of the family (of the prophet), and to make you pure through a perfect purification.

But can't due to one reason or another.

I know about the social impact but, my experience tell different. I am nikabi with my long abaya. Used to work as a cleaner opeate buffin machine in school. used to work as cleaner at medical centre , barclays bank and also halford shop floor and garage (no more halford garage now). i used to work as production operator in window lock company, also in electronic and electrical company. i used to be from operator, promoted to senior operator after a year and team leader for production line after 3 months and been offer supervisor job for the whole shop floor in the production after 6 mths but cannot take it due to moving up north. One of my roles is also training new people, from operator, team leader even supervisor. Reason, I be able to train people easy with my loud and clear method. And I done this under my nikab and abaya. Mind you my hijab is quiet a big hijab, not short one on top of shoulder. Of course all my abaya is dark colour one and my hijab and nikab usually black.

when i moved to north east i apply for a job where there are may be 1% ethnic minority. Even we can't really see black people let alone asian. I got a job straight away with first interview under my nikab working in clean m doing mobile phone chips. Integration? I just work there on temporary roles as we need money to go back home and my intention only for 3 mths. i been offer permenant job and upon my leaving i had so many card, chocolate and presents. Unbelievable actually. But being who we are and what we believe we should be is always work best. Of course I work because financially I had to. Now I am staying home. But my experience tell me, cannot integrate is rubbish. I do believe it is more into us rather than the other party. We here as a guest and if you follow the advise of maulana hassan ali an nadwi, integration will not be big issue for nikabi.

and as i am not working now, still we can always integrate. I had my own tiny business, I integrate well with my supplier who look after me dearly. I live in area and town where only about 10 muslim family out of 15 000 population. other asian may be not more than 10 as well. even black. yesterday me and my husband just help these 2 old lady who their car broken down, tow their car back to our house and serve them some cold drink as weather very warm and send them back home which is about 30 miles away from our house. beard and nikab is not an excuse and reason for not been able to integrate. I had neighbours kids who is at my house from 9 in the morning till 6 in the evening. surprise when I think is our neighbour can accept me a nikabi in the middle of media tension about nikabi, it's a fairy tales. The real story is different.

but mind you, for me one thing is we need to do what we want to do as wearing nikab as we believe it is a commandment from Allah. and as we follow Allah command, will he make it hard? I don't think He will and He is. And He won't. And the more you do it with sincerity of intention, muhasabah and the important is yakin, every thing come easy. it can be a big surprise how we actually scare with our own shadow that beard and nikab will bring a gap into integration. of course there are thing we cannot do and we can do, but basically we human life had the same sort of need although we came from different belief, culture and background. just find the similar needs, we be alright and be able to integrate brilliantly.

sorry if any words mistake and etc. i had to type with one hand as my right hand been burn by hot oil a week ago, but cannot help not to share my experience.

[cheapphenonline]

Please forgive me as I am slightly confused as to what your ultimate point is, that we should trim the beard in order to integrate better?
I have an (almost) fist length beard and if there is one thing that I am ALWAYS surprised about is how accepting western people are. I have NEVER been put down or made fun of because of my beard and I have never felt like the odd ball. Interestingly I think it is the opposite, I usually get very positive comments from non-muslims, most guys love the beard, although I doubt non muslim women like it but who cares about that anyway. I think it is a great thing that the beard/niqab creates a psychological barrier because it constantly reminds you of who you are and who you should want to become. I used to think of society as me vs. them but in reality it is rarely like that.

[cheapphenonline]

My point is exactly the opposite i.e. that we should maintain the psychological and physical barrier beween Islam & Kuf'r.

We are not here to integrate, we are here to please Allah (SWT).

Completely agreed.

[fount_pirat]

My point is exactly the opposite i.e. that we should maintain the psychological and physical barrier beween Islam & Kuf'r.

We are not here to integrate, we are here to please Allah (SWT).

Yes of course, but we are here in a country in major population is not muslim. if we not trying to integrate somehow at some point, we had create barrier of non muslim with islam itself. we can keep our self to ourself and our community. Sadly this is why maulana hassan ali an nadwi bayan said that if we not able to always think ourselves as a guest here a muslim into non muslim country only because we hold the citizenship, we should expect a bash on us from time to time and might get worst. unfortunately, sad. People from indo pak not just create a barrier between muslim and kuffur, but also with muslim who not from indo pak and that is reality even among kids. it's happen everywhere i go in uk only because we our family esp my kids are Chinese look a like.

[WelcomeMe]

My point is exactly the opposite i.e. that we should maintain the psychological and physical barrier beween Islam & Kuf'r.

We are not here to integrate, we are here to please Allah (SWT).

Muslim people in the West should try to find a vernacular version of Islam while giving up the cultural baggage they brought from their countries of origin.

Such vernacularization will encourage the native non-Muslim people to consider Islam something closer to their hearts , not foreign.

Remember how the Sufis spread thier message of divine love in vast lands like India , Central Asia. Otherwise , there will be parallel societies in the same land where riots can erupt at any time under a slightest provocation from the ILLuminati agents. Check this thread below to understand their sinister agenda behind promoting immigration of Muslim people in the Western lands.

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...a-Ugly-Secrets

[SallyIsNice5]

All,

I would like to revisit this issue and not from a Fiqh but a social perspective. I am not a very politically correct person so I am not going to put a disclaimer that I don’t mean to disrespect people with short beards and Muslimahs who don’t wear Hijab because it is understood that as a Muslim it’s not my job to judge anyone.

It is also not important to discuss those who can’t grow long beards because it is also understood.

Here I want to discuss brothers who can and do grow long beards and Muslimahs who wear a Niqab.
Lately, there has been a barrage of discussions on the media, on forums about the length of Beards and Niqab. Traditional Muslims have weighed in with “differences of opinions within Madhabs”, unfortunately most of these discussions are out of context!

The categorisation of “obligation vs. non-obligation” within Madhabs and the relevant Academic discussions don’t mean that the Madhahib frown upon “long flowing beards or Muslimahs covering their faces” but extensive details on the matter will take us away from discussing the social impact of these practises.

Having a long beard (for men) and having face covered (for Muslimahs) constitutes a “STATEMENT” and creates a barrier between them and certain acts of Fahishah, forces a certain lifestyle and inhibits integration.

Brothers with nice trendy beards can quickly blend in at movie theatres, clubs and other places while a person with a long flowing beard will “think twice” before being seen at these places. At work place as soon as you walk into a meeting with a long flowing beard everybody knows that you are different and you are instantly recognised as such.

Sisters who chose to don the Niqab know that they will have problems at their work place (should they chose to work) therefore their men folks will have to “become the man of the house and provide as dictated in the Qur’aan”. Moreover wearing a Niqab often goes with long flowing black robes which means that Sisters can’t wear attractive (multi-coloured scarves and attractive outer garments).

The minute you remove these “outer practises” the first physical boundary of integration is breached. There has been a concerted effort in Muslim & Non-Muslim lands to create doubts about these obvious physical and salient features of Islam to foster “integration”.

In order to integrate two things need to happen:

1. Mentally the psychological barrier between Islam & Kuf’r needs to be breached and this is also being done by not discussion or putting a spin on “Al-Wara Wal-Bara”
2. Physically the barriers have to be removed

Shaytaan is clever and he is picked on the right theme and knows that there are some “Academic differences in Islamic Shariah on these matters” so even the most sincere and innocent Muslims will fall for this and weigh in with "Academic discussions".

Browsing old pictures & sketches of Muslim lands tells a very clear story of how men and women dressed and behaved even a 100 years ago so, let alone in the time of the Salaf and the later centuries.

Lastly, I would like to make dua for them who want to don the Niqab and live a life as dictated in the following verse of the Qur’aan:

[33:33] Remain in your homes, and do not display (your) beauty as it used to be displayed in the days of earlier ignorance; and establish Salah, and pay Zakah, and obey Allah and His messenger. Allah only intends to keep (all sorts of) filth away from you, O members of the family (of the prophet), and to make you pure through a perfect purification.

But can't due to one reason or another.

Truly an excellent post. Shaykh Buti has written a book on maslahah, it is a masterpiece. It explains how this term is taken out of context in our times. This integration argument used in the west is baseless. Yes, there is maslahah in deen but it has certain rules on what can be regarded as maslahah.

[nerkvcbtre]

Salam

brother totally agree with you. when one dresses in islamic attire and walks around with a beard/niqab they really have to think twice before performing an haram or prohibited action.

when the ulema say wear sunnah attire and describe this as clothing worn by the muslims and the awliya from the past, there really is wisdom in this. when one is wearing such attire they are very conscious that they are basically becoming ambassadors for the sunnah and must refrain from actions that are not befitting of a muslim.

also yesterday after a very long time i walked aorund my city in a turban, i can't say how conscious i was of my appearance, it's a struggle to wear outright islamic dress in the west sometimes....for some reason wearing a cap or thawb has not had this effect, only wearing a turban (i.e. i get very conscious of kufar looking at me, when i'm wearing a turban).

[EspanaCamsInfo]

Salam alikum,
I am thinking what the world integration means.
It might be different for western people and different for muslims. I think we can very simple live with non-believers, and keeping our faith. My experience speaks for that, even it did not look like that in the beginning. Western people are genaraly not intolerant, as far they meet muslims and will have good experience with them I dont see much problems. I have experience from my town, where I am only one , now we got one family from balcan living here, but I think they will stay temporary only.
People were very negative before - including members of may family, but they found out later that it is still me under hijab - so that the tention ceased very quickly.
Thank you very much sister ummuseif - for your encouraging post
w salam

[HomePageOEMfreeSOFTWARE]

My point is exactly the opposite i.e. that we should maintain the psychological and physical barrier beween Islam & Kuf'r.

We are not here to integrate, we are here to please Allah (SWT).

Very true. Many modern Muslims think a lot of the 'acceptability' factor in non Muslim societies. They should worry more about being accepted by Allah. Reminds me of people like Javed Ghamdi and Qaradawi who seem to think that the beard is not a part of Islam.

[fount_pirat]

Very true. Many modern Muslims think a lot of the 'acceptability' factor in non Muslim societies. They should worry more about being accepted by Allah. Reminds me of people like Javed Ghamdi and Qaradawi who seem to think that the beard is not a part of Islam.

the things is many muslim think that acceptance by non muslim mean we had to be like them. We don't have to. And if we say that we here to please Allah like brother col said, than if we not integrate how can we please Allah. And to integrate did not mean we had to be like them like many muslim think. The thing is when we didn't know what ikram muslimin is, what is the boundary and limitation on each of us. But from my experience, people from indo pak have a problem about integration not just with non muslim, but with muslim that not from indo pak. Subhana Allah even kids do not really want to integrate with muslim kids not from indo pak and happen in masjeed. i had live in birmigham, coventry, and now north east. been to many majeed and area while visiting , sight seeing or with jamaat to preston, lancaster, leicester, nothingham, loughborough, peterbrough. Lomdoner is the only people who are quiet good in integration as they are used to pretty much multicultural.

if you say to please Allah and not integrate, how can you please Allah when not integrate mean, you don't even make other muslim which not from indo pak feel welcome. for me integration in western country problem happen not because of islam, but because of culture. Sad and ashamed. People from indo pak will always not bother if some other muslim in the group don't speak their language. they can just sit in the corner on their own. may be because they want to please Allah and so they don't need to integrate!

[HomePageOEMfreeSOFTWARE]

the things is many muslim think that acceptance by non muslim mean we had to be like them. We don't have to. And if we say that we here to please Allah like brother col said, than if we not integrate how can we please Allah. And to integrate did not mean we had to be like them like many muslim think. The thing is when we didn't know what ikram muslimin is, what is the boundary and limitation on each of us. But from my experience, people from indo pak have a problem about integration not just with non muslim, but with muslim that not from indo pak. Subhana Allah even kids do not really want to integrate with muslim kids not from indo pak and happen in masjeed. i had live in birmigham, coventry, and now north east. been to many majeed and area while visiting , sight seeing or with jamaat to preston, lancaster, leicester, nothingham, loughborough, peterbrough. Lomdoner is the only people who are quiet good in integration as they are used to pretty much multicultural.

if you say to please Allah and not integrate, how can you please Allah when not integrate mean, you don't even make other muslim which not from indo pak feel welcome. for me integration in western country problem happen not because of islam, but because of culture. Sad and ashamed. People from indo pak will always not bother if some other muslim in the group don't speak their language. they can just sit in the corner on their own. may be because they want to please Allah and so they don't need to integrate!

Right. We don't integrate, we Muslims disintegrate.........and we are d experts, wot?

[WelcomeMe]

the things is many muslim think that acceptance by non muslim mean we had to be like them. We don't have to. And if we say that we here to please Allah like brother col said, than if we not integrate how can we please Allah. And to integrate did not mean we had to be like them like many muslim think. The thing is when we didn't know what ikram muslimin is, what is the boundary and limitation on each of us. But from my experience, people from indo pak have a problem about integration not just with non muslim, but with muslim that not from indo pak. Subhana Allah even kids do not really want to integrate with muslim kids not from indo pak and happen in masjeed. i had live in birmigham, coventry, and now north east. been to many majeed and area while visiting , sight seeing or with jamaat to preston, lancaster, leicester, nothingham, loughborough, peterbrough. Lomdoner is the only people who are quiet good in integration as they are used to pretty much multicultural.

if you say to please Allah and not integrate, how can you please Allah when not integrate mean, you don't even make other muslim which not from indo pak feel welcome. for me integration in western country problem happen not because of islam, but because of culture. Sad and ashamed. People from indo pak will always not bother if some other muslim in the group don't speak their language. they can just sit in the corner on their own. may be because they want to please Allah and so they don't need to integrate!

The real difference is between integration and assimilation. Integrating with the Western society is like putting water in a blue glass. The property of water is not changed , but , it looks blue.

Assimilation with the Western society means putting bue pigment into water. Then , the water looks blue. But, the water is not pure anymore.

So, the Musim people in the West need to promote Islam as something wrapped in a Western cultural package !!!

[Forex Trading Software]

Pawlak what have illuminati agents have to do with beard length and niqab?

[namaikaimvputka]

Pawlak what have illuminati agents have to do with beard length and niqab?

illuminati? water? blue? where ?

[Forex Trading Software]

Muslim people in the West should try to find a vernacular version of Islam while giving up the cultural baggage they brought from their countries of origin.

Such vernacularization will encourage the native non-Muslim people to consider Islam something closer to their hearts , not foreign.

Remember how the Sufis spread thier message of divine love in vast lands like India , Central Asia. Otherwise , there will be parallel societies in the same land where riots can erupt at any time under a slightest provocation from the ILLuminati agents. Check this thread below to understand their sinister agenda behind promoting immigration of Muslim people in the Western lands.

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...a-Ugly-Secrets

Here...

read what he is saying in his original post about illuminati agents lol

[xgnuwdd]

There's a BIG GAPING HOLE in your argument COLONEL. First you're assuming those people wear religious clothes all the time when outside, and this stops them from hanging.in clubs etc etc if they wanted to go to clubs and do haraam stuff then they TAKE IT OFF DUHH, and trust me they do that!

Secondly do you think fahisha is only OUTSIDE ?? A fully bearded man can engage in all kinds of fahisha without stepping outside his front door. I heard of one brother complete with thawb big beard etc doing dirty stuff on webcams while viewing other girls webcams.Wallahi now I don't trust such men. Just because they project this 'hey look at me im dressing like the prophet {pbuh} image..... doesn't mean they are angels.

Lastly but not least its time to get off your high horses and stop being so freaking arrogant and putting down other muslims just because their beard isn't as massive as yours or they don't wear niqaabs or jilbabs!

[nerkvcbtre]

There's a BIG GAPING HOLE in your argument COLONEL. First you're assuming those people wear religious clothes all the time when outside, and this stops them from hanging.in clubs etc etc if they wanted to go to clubs and do haraam stuff then they TAKE IT OFF DUHH, and trust me they do that!

Secondly do you think fahisha is only OUTSIDE ?? A fully bearded man can engage in all kinds of fahisha without stepping outside his front door. I heard of one brother complete with thawb big beard etc doing dirty stuff on webcams while viewing other girls webcams.Wallahi now I don't trust such men. Just because they project this 'hey look at me im dressing like the prophet {pbuh} image..... doesn't mean they are angels.

Lastly but not least its time to get off your high horses and stop being so freaking arrogant and putting down other muslims just because their beard isn't as massive as yours or they don't wear niqaabs or jilbabs! salam

i wouldn't describe col as being arrogant at all or implying that the beard or niqab keep people away from fawahisha necessarily but they do help. for example the bearded guy who was doing bad stuff in his home prolly would never have thought of doing it in front of ppl, at least his beard kept him frm that, i.e. he did not want to dishonor the sunnah b4 the ppl. nedxt ppl shudnt be spreading tales abt the private sins of any individual muslim beardless or bearded, nor shoudl they form stereotypes. no one on this thread stated that some ppl who don't keep beards go to night clubs or view porn, therefore i think you, dear Sr. Idil_ should practice that same courtesy and avoid stereotypes.

you stated that ppl who wear thawbs will "take them off" and "duhhhhh" well "duhhh" they take them off b4 going to such places. however if he'she were to keep wearing it, it would certainly stop them from going to such places. the purpose of this thread was to point out the benefits of maintaining islamic attire, if one was to remove them then "duhhhhh" obviously some of those benefits (i.e. being aware of your actions and the image you portray to ppl abt the sunnah when you are dressed in such a fashion) would disappear. i think it speaks very highly of the sunnah etc. that those so called "religious" ppl attending clubs must first remove their sunnah attire and cut all ties from the sunnah (at least physically) b4 going to such places. to me it suggests that the fear of dishonoring rasulullah is huge barrier to many sins.

i think it necessary that when ppl read something and quickly get angry they should take some time to reflect on it and re read the post. nowehere did col. come of as being arrogant. rather it's his duty to encourage ppl to maintain the sunnah, that is to "enjoin good and forbid evil", and he does so in a compassionate manner no where did he curse those who don't maintain islamic attire all the time (people like myself), rather he encouraged them by pointing out the practical benefits of doing so. i myself have experienced these benefits at times but had never really stopped to think abt them, i'm really glad he pointed them out. what col. did was to call to allah's cause with wisdom and good words.

and btw no one here claims that keeping a beard is the standard of a "good muslim", however it's part of fitrah and the outward appearance of the muslim and of course good outward appearances often entail goodness within (not always, but often). the ideal muslim obviously has many characteristics both spiritual and physical : he lightens the hearts of those he sees, he enjoins good and forbids evil, he keeps a beard (according to his fiqh), he abstains from porn, he speaks softly and thoughtfully, he avoids hastiness in accusing others of being arrogant, etc. May allah make us all from those practice restraint and present the above qualities.

[HomePageOEMfreeSOFTWARE]

The real difference is between integration and assimilation. Integrating with the Western society is like putting water in a blue glass. The property of water is not changed , but , it looks blue.

Assimilation with the Western society means putting bue pigment into water. Then , the water looks blue. But, the water is not pure anymore.

So, the Musim people in the West need to promote Islam as something wrapped in a Western cultural package !!!

After reading this post, my brain got illuminated with a blue light.

[HomePageOEMfreeSOFTWARE]

just because their beard isn't as massive as yours or they don't wear niqaabs or jilbabs!

You really ought to see the Colonel in his jilbaab with his massive beard jutting out of the niqaab.