[elektikakass]

Asslamo Allaikum,

One of my teachers is an Egyptian Shaykh who is a graduate of Al-Azhar university and I quote him verbatim,

“I went to the Prophets Mosque and I was talking to a 80 year old Pakistani and he grilled me on the pronunciation of Dhaad and declared that my recitation is non-sense & he made me practise it, and Wa-Allah it was the first time in life I realised the correct pronunciation of Dhaad”

Most Qarees/Imams in Saudia as I have already stated are either Deobandees or from Nadwa and having travelled across many parts of the world, I have YET to pray behind a single Barelwee Imam who’s Tajweed I find satisfactory!

In general, Barelwee Imams have no idea about Tajweed…

If someone wants to twist this in some sort of sectarian biased manner, then be it!

Anyone who thinks that Asians can’t recite then in the UK should visit Dewsbury Markaz & pray Esha & Faj’r & I challenge anyone to pick a single mistake of Tajweed!

yeah deoband has cracked it! masha allah.

[Caluabdum]

Brother if you memorize the quran, you will find out one quality of it.. that the If some hafiz is given a word or an ayah to pinpoint in quran, the strength of it is not understood by identifying the Ayah or the word after the one indicated.. rather the strength is actually if the hafiz can accurately mention the ayah before the indicated ayah.

just like the this small qariah from iran.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bpk9qFqeQt4

[Caluabdum]

Among the hardest pronunciation of arabic letters are to differentiate:

ص and س
ذ and ظ

and letters that people take for granted:

ح and ه

and when to have lighten/harden ل in الله

and

I got this from another of my teachers that Maulana Mohammad has had completed quran in one sitting.

I'm wondering how long would that take. Can you ask that too.

[Ingeborga]

yeah deoband has cracked it! masha allah.

Did you forget brother deoband is the centre of the world.

Having said that, I do have to agree their lots top notch deobandi qaris, I myself was taught arabic and quranic recital by deobandi ulama.

There also very good barelvi ulama with good recital. Id say that none of the groups are superior than the other. You will have good or bad from both groups.

As far as bangladesh is concerned some of the best qaris are produced by the madaris of Allamah Abdul Latif Fultali Al Naqshbandi-Mujadidi-Muhammadi-Jaunpuri who is neither barelvi or deobandi.

PS To Maudh Khan Rai-Barelvi and Barelvi are not in same division let alone being confused as being one an the same town, rai-barelvi is in Lucknow Division.

[elektikakass]

Did you forget brother deoband is the centre of the world.

Having said that, I do have to agree their lots top notch deobandi qaris, I myself was taught arabic and quranic recital by deobandi ulama.

There also very good barelvi ulama with good recital. Id say that none of the groups are superior than the other. You will have good or bad from both groups.

As far as bangladesh is concerned some of the best qaris are produced by the madaris of Allamah Abdul Latif Fultali Al Naqshbandi-Mujadidi-Muhammadi-Jaunpuri who is neither barelvi or deobandi.

PS To Maudh Khan Rai-Barelvi and Barelvi are not in same division let alone being confused as being one an the same town, rai-barelvi is in Lucknow Division.

salam
what exactly do you mean by deoband is the centre of the world?
as for bangladeshi qira'a - i know 1 bangladeshi imam with excellent qira'a...i can't figure out if they are deobandi or barelwi - neither i suppose, because you have group dhikr during the bayan before salat-al-juma, but no loud la ilaha illah allah after salat.

[sessoorale]

Did you forget brother deoband is the centre of the world.

umm......okkkkkkkk.

[Ingeborga]

umm......okkkkkkkk.

Sarcasm, maybe uncalled for though.

[sessoorale]

cmon akhi. This forum has seen the slander of 'ulama and the blatant labeling of brothers and sisters, and throwing of people outside of the label of Sunni.

I'm just being playful in my clear disagreement. I don't agree with the idea that any one islamic school is the center of the world of course. Besides, there are other great institutions out there and to claim one over the other like that is just totally trumping their scholars and achievements - from the scholars of West Africa, to Egypt to Malaysia. There are millions of Muslims who don't know anything about Deoband or ever even heard of it, and many who can't name a single scholar from Azhar. Allah has placed much diversity and various strengths in this Ummah and we shouldn't be so exclusive in the way we look at things.

I was hoping you were joking with the comment about deoband being the center of the world - but if you weren't you know my opinion!

Lets learn to smile

wa salaam
Abdul Sattar

[Friend_Joe]

Did you forget brother deoband is the centre of the world.

akhi, this is not football and Islam is not a football match. Deoband or non-Deoband, all these stickers only create fitna and nothing else. I don't care where a Muslim is from, I don't care if he had a chance to study at Al-Azhaar, Deoband, etc. or not. I don't care what colour is his skin - I don't care if he's black, yellow, white, brown, green, blue, red, or whatever. I don't care if he's male of female. I don't care if his bloodline comes from Rasulullah or not. Remember that even some viwes or fathers of Allah's Messengers, peace be upon them all, did not want to accept the Deen. I don't care this or that. What I do care is that all of them are my bros and sisters in Islam, and that the best in the site of Allah is the one who fears Him the most, and the one who is the best to his family, ...

This is what I care about.

May Allah unite all Muslims under one flag and help us overcome "supporting the local club".

[sessoorale]

AbdulQahhar. THANK YOU.

jazakAllah khair - couldn't have said it better myself
Abdul Sattar

[Caluabdum]

it's funny that the topic has changed from ض to something else.

Let's stick to the original topic shall we?

[sessoorale]

hahaha. sorry. im all done.

I'll steer us back with this reflection.

Daad....

comes after Saad

ws

[Trientoriciom]

I still have no clue what the answer is to the original question.

[Trientoriciom]

I guess that no one else does either.

[namaikaimvputka]

In all honesty, please check my post about its qualitie and pronunciation..

I would how ever like to make a clarification. I said that it is Duaad and not Daad, The only reason I said so was because Daad (writing like Daad in english) give the impression that it is empty mouth. While Duaad leaves the impression its full mouth.. So I said that its Duaad.

BUT please note that DuaaD does NOT mean that the "u" sound has to be so strong that it becomes similar to "Tuaa" as in ط

[stadiaKab]

In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Let me begin by mentioning a few important things:
- Tajweed has nothing to do with a ‘good voice’. Due to our ignorance, many reciters with good voices are given the title Qari. Whereas in reality, as they are observing most rules of tajweed, they are making many major mistakes in recitation. A friend of ours from S. Africa, Moulana Ahmed Moola prefers to call these people Tarkaari. (The Gujarati word for ‘Saalan’ – If you don’t know what that is, then you need to go to Mumtaz in Bradford, or Bukhara in Samlesbury – Or Chutneys in San Francisco)
- Tajweed can only be studied an obtained by sitting in front of a teacher. Not on an audio CD, dvd, or a computer program. – As Mufti Abdurrahman ibn Yusuf (who studied by our tajweed teacher for one year) put it, Qari Mohammad Siddique Falahi teaches his students to be critics. Tajweed is an art only obtainable after your mistakes are pointed out to you time and again. We were required to walk into class with small mirrors to make sure our lips didn’t move when we recited the ‘Sheen’ in the Ta’awwuz.
- Just because one is an Arab does not mean he/she recites the Qur’an correctly. In fact, technically speaking, even Sudais breaks many rules of Tajweed. Shall I remind you that just correct pronunciation of letters is not enough tajweed. It is everything from prolonging, stopping, etc. – Sa’ud Shuraim and Abdallah Al ‘Awwad Johani are the two best Imams of the Haram, in terms of following the rules of Tajweed. (Although my personal best is Mohammad bin Sulayman Al Muhaysini [who, technically speaking breaks many rules of tajweed])
- The difference of opinion in the recitation of Daad has nothing to do with Barelwis or Deobandis. This is not a Deobandi/Barelwi issue, or an Arab/’Ajam issue. It’s a matter of understanding.

Now, to the crux of the matter at hand.

Khulasatul Bayaan is a very famous book of the rules of Tajweed, and typically taught in the final year of studying Tajweed, and the most famous commentary of it in urdu has been authored by our ustaadh, Qari Mohammad Siddique Falahi. (Fath al Rahman Fi Sharh Khulasatil Bayan). It took him almost 10 years of research to put this together. I remember seeing him working on this during his Ramadan vacations almost 15 years ago.

I have read the entire chapter on this in the book, and without going into detail, I will mention a summary of what is mentioned.

The Makhraj of Daad is: The side of the tongue (Haafa) when touching the (roots of) molars and pre-molars (of the top) on both sides or on one side, although from the left (only) is the easiest. (Note: The Makhraj of Daad is the same everywhere. ‘Arab, ‘Ajam, Deobandi, Barelwi, Salafi, and whatever else is out there)

This means, that 5 or 10 teeth will be utilized in pronouncing this letter. If from one side, then 5 teeth, and if from both sides, 10 teeth. This letter is unique to the Arabic language, and it is extremely difficult to pronounce this letter correctly. Due to this, many pronounce this letter as a Daal with a full mouth, or Dhaal with a full mouth, or something else, which is all incorrect. The beauty is that each of these people claims that they are most correct.

Now, let us look at how these people pronounce this letter. Many people, when pronouncing this letter utilize the (front) tip of their tongue and touch root of the front top two teeth (incisors). All of this is incorrect. Now for a moment, pronounce the letter Daad, and stop there. Which part of the tongue did you utilize and which teeth did you utilize? Most likely you utilized the front tip of the tongue and the two front teeth, which is incorrect. This is exactly how many of our Qurraa’, including Imams of the Haram pronounce their Daad. – Due to the ignorance of many people, even Imams are forced into pronouncing it incorrectly. They should try to educate the masses, as I have to.

My question to them is, you made your own Makhraj for the letter Daad. If you would have followed the real Makhraj, truthfully speaking, since you are so used to pronouncing it incorrectly, and it is so hard to pronounce from its original Makhraj, you probably can’t even pronounce it, unless someone helped you with it. – In my own practice of this letter, I have to say that after practicing tajweed for an hour on a daily basis for 5-6 years, it was towards the end I think I finally got it right. This does not mean it’s impossible, rather it is quite possible, but needs lots of practice.

Let me remind you in closing that:
- The Makhraj of the letter Daad is same around the world
- Most Qurraa’ utilize the front tip of the tongue and front two teeth, which is incorrect.
- What needs to be used is the side of the tongue with the molars, and let me tell you, it’s not easy.

You can listen to our ustaadh, Qari Mohammad Siddique Falahi at: http://imamtahir.com/hear.php?c=6

Tahir Anwar

[namaikaimvputka]

Br. you mentioned the makhraj but forgot the Siffaat .. please post something on that as well..

Jazak Allah

[CtEkM8Vq]

جهر
رخاوه
إستعلاء
إطباق
إصمات
إستطالة

www.abouttajweed.com has a description of each characteristic in the 'tidbits' pages. But ... they are exactly that, tidbits .

Jazaak Allaah Khayr Sunnilink. Perhaps you can get some material on the above characteristics as well, and how they influence the 'proper' pronunciation of the ض.

And the difference in pronunciation of the ض is not a deobandi/barelwi thing ... it's just that it has been observed that they (used to perhaps) insist on pronouncing it in different ways, to the extent that it was almost a defining feature of the groups ...

[Diwokfkq]

The difference is that according to the Deobandi Qurra, the siffat of Rikhwa in Dhaad is acted upon, whereas you wont find this in the Arab Qurra. Heres a short brief explanation on both sifaat Shiddah and Rikhwah:

Shiddah (Explosive/Strength)

Definition: strong stoppage of the sound upon pronunciation of the letter when it carries a SAKOON

* This is achieved by relying strongly on the makhraj or by constricting it
* the quality of shiddah is to pronounce forcefully, that when pronounced, the sound of the letter will be HARD, and the sound of the letter will end off in the makhraj

Rakhaawa (Opposite of Shiddah)

Definition: the continuation of sound upon pronunciation of the letter when it carries a SAKOON, in a soft and gentle manner

* these letters are neither shiddah nor tawassut
* rakhaawa is the continuation of SOUND whereas hems is the continuation of BREATH


When the Deobandi qurra pronounce the Dhaad, they articulate it from its correct makhraj, however the force used to hit the teeth is lessend and carried along the teeth, therefore prolonging the sound of the letter, ultimately fulfilling the sifat of rikhwah.

[Kilsimpaile]

(Note: The Makhraj of Daad is the same everywhere. ‘Arab, ‘Ajam, Deobandi, Barelwi, Salafi, and whatever else is out there)

Unfortunately, a big mistake in the Deobandi maslak has crept in, allowing one to pronounce the daad as a zaad and calling this one of the correct makhrajs. Alhamdulillah, Mufti Zarwali severely criticized this opinion several times.