[arreskslarlig]

Hi there,

I am a Catholic, I am looking for answers to understand the Teology of Islam, the core question I find is about Redemption. I mean, we all know that the Old Testament teaches in Genesis that human kind fell from perfection, because of the orginal sin. After that falling we all humans are mortals, and we suffer the consecuences of our fallen condition. We also read in the Old Testament the announcement of a redemptor, One who will rise the fallen human condition to the lost dignity.

According to Islam, how happens such redemption ?, has this redemption already happened?.

Then there are more questions but lets beggin with this ones.

Please avoid too extended answers so we can meke fluid this dialogue.

[Michaelnewerb]

Hello.

In Islam, we do not believe in original sin. We believe that Adam and his wife Even were both redeemed of their mistake because they asked for forgiveness and Allah forgave them. So, the idea that redemption is a necessity for those that are not even born is not found in Islam. Allah says that no soul shall bear the burden of another so we are all born sinless.

Even the majority of Jews reject original sin so I don't know why many Christians refuse to reject this unfair and cruel belief which makes the default state of man sinful.

[penpizdes]

Redemption in Islaam is brought about by worshipping Allaah alone, and shunning the worship of all idols and false gods.

The Prophet gave glad tidings to all believers that as long as they worship Allaah alone and don't commit shirk (associating partners with Allah)...they will be granted Allaah's Mercy.

[exchpaypalgold]

Brother you are cordially invited to Islam.
Love

[ApporpSothe]

[QUOTE=Alonso_Castillo;620864]Hi there,

I am a Catholic, I am looking for answers to understand the Teology of Islam, the core question I find is about Redemption. I mean, we all know that the Old Testament teaches in Genesis that human kind fell from perfection, because of the orginal sin. After that falling we all humans are mortals, and we suffer the consecuences of our fallen condition. We also read in the Old Testament the announcement of a redemptor, One who will rise the fallen human condition to the lost dignity.

According to Islam, how happens such redemption ?, has this redemption already happened?.

Then there are more questions but lets beggin with this ones.



Well, first off the Old Testament (or the Torah) never teaches anything remotely similar to original sin. No rabbi in history has ever suggested anything similar to what Christians preach regarding the subject, and I think a rabbi of all people would know what's he's talking about when in comes to the Torah--especially considering they actual read the original Hebrew (you need to be very very careful about reading Christian translations of the Bible because they really do dramatically alter the words to suit their beliefs).

Here's an excellent Jewish rebuttal to the notion of original sin: http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=97:qu estion-do-jews-believe-in-the-doctrine-of-original-sin&catid=46riginal-sin&Itemid=496


In Islam, one obtains forgiveness from Allah merely by asking Allah for forgiveness with a sincere heart. There is no necessity for anyone to martyr themselves for one to be forgiven, for Allah is All Powerful, All Merciful. What could be more cruel than punishing people for merely living before Jesus "lived and died for us?" Allah, being all powerful, does not "need" a sacrifice of any sort in order to forgive someone.

[arreskslarlig]

Ok lets clarify some concepts. According to Islam Adam was forgiven from the sin he commited but then why did he die?, wasn't death the punishment of desobedience?.

Now it is clear that we all are going to die as part of our fallen nature. That is the consecuence of the ORIGINAL SIN. The sin of Adam.

That is torah not new testament yet.

That single reason is the cause for which we need a redemptor one who will remake all things according to God's original will. According to Islam, How did such redemption happen?

[disappointment2]

We don't believe Adam(pbuh) was a supernatural. He is a human like everyone else and died like one aswell. Also, Moses(pbuh) and Muhammad(pbuh) and all the prophets(pbut) died, does that mean they were disobedient, when in actual fact they were the best of mankind.

[arreskslarlig]

We don't believe Adam(pbuh) was a supernatural. He is a human like everyone else and died like one aswell. Also, Moses(pbuh) and Muhammad(pbuh) and all the prophets(pbut) died, does that mean they were disobedient, when in actual fact they were the best of mankind.

Well if you read Genesis 2:17 there you will find that death is the consecuence of desobedience and as Adam is the father of all humans we also have inherited his fallen nature. That is why all prophets also died. Because they also share the human fallen nature of Adam as well as we do. Without redemption no Eternal life.

[AlabamaBoyz]

Well if you read Genesis 2:17 there you will find that death is the consecuence of desobedience and as Adam is the father of all humans we also have inherited his fallen nature. That is why all prophets also died. Because they also share the human fallen nature of Adam as well as we do. Without redemption no Eternal life.

Well, if you look at it, Adam {AS} is a creation of God and as such God has decreed that all creations will die.

In islam, we believe that each and every person is answerable for his sins and no person shall bear the sin of another. God is Just.

Redemption is achieved by worshipping God without partners and submitting to His commands. This means that we do not ascribe sons to Him and that we do not ascribe partners in worship to Him.

We ,muslims, believe that God sent prophets and messengers to guide mankind such as Abraham [AS} and Jesus {AS} and that the last of messenger is Muhammad [SAW}. All these messengers called man to worship God without partners and to submit to God's commands

[Saduyre9de]

Well if you read Genesis 2:17 there you will find that death is the consecuence of desobedience and as Adam is the father of all humans we also have inherited his fallen nature. That is why all prophets also died. Because they also share the human fallen nature of Adam as well as we do. Without redemption no Eternal life.

Forgiveness from sin and having death are two different issues.

Adam and Eve (peace be upon them) made mistakes, and they were sent from there heavenly life to this worldly life.

Once they are in their worldly life, they are accountable for what they do, and have to stand before Allaah (God Almighty) on the day of judgement. This is true for all of their children, including you and I.

Adam and Eve (peace be upon them) asked for forgiveness for their mistakes, and they are forgiven.
Same holds true for anyone else in this world; if they make mistakes, they ask forgiveness, and Allaah (God Almighty) out of His mercy forgives them.

You and I are in the progeny of Adam (peace be upon him), so we are born into this world. As such, just like Adam and Eve (peace be upon them), we will die. This period between our birth and death is a period of test, and we will be accountable for what we do.

We did not inherit any sin from Adam and Eve (peace be upon them) because they were already forgiven before we were born.

Hope that helps.

[arreskslarlig]

Now, where did islam teaches that death was the plan of God if we can read in the Genesis that death is a consecuence of sin. It is against the original will of God. How can Islam go against prophets?.

[disappointment2]

Now, where did islam teaches that death was the plan of God if we can read in the Genesis that death is a consecuence of sin. It is against the original will of God. How can Islam go against prophets?.

Because we follow the Quran, which should be understandable since the Bible seems to degrade Prophets(pbut).

"Everyone soul shall taste death, and We shall make a trial of you with evil and good, and to Us you will be returned." (21:35)

[arreskslarlig]

Because we follow the Quran, which should be understandable since the Bible seems to degrade Prophets(pbut).

"Everyone soul shall taste death, and We shall make a trial of you with evil and good, and to Us you will be returned." (21:35)

I wanted to reach that point. The Bible is written not by One but for all the prophets that Islam says to believe and rever. But Quran is not compliant with Bible, we can't identify Mohammed in Bible's prophesies and yet we have bibles older than Mohammed that testifies that Bible has not been changed for milleniums. How can I joepardize my salvation trusting a book that is not compliant with the older book it says it trusts?


If you read Is 66,14; Jer 8,1; Ez 37 ,1ss. There you can read that death is not the will of God. His Will is our eternal life with him, in glorified bodies.

[disappointment2]

I wanted to reach that point. The Bible is written not by One but for all the prophets that Islam says to believe and rever. But Quran is not compliant with Bible, we can't identify Mohammed in Bible's prophesies and yet we have bibles older than Mohammed that testifies that Bible has not been changed for milleniums. How can I joepardize my salvation trusting a book that is not compliant with the older book it says it trusts?


If you read Is 66,14; Jer 8,1; Ez 37 ,1ss. There you can read that death is not the will of God. His Will is our eternal life with him, in glorified bodies.

Peace,

I don't understand your reasoning for saying the Bible hasn't been changed, when Christian Scholars themselves admit there has been changes in the Bible. I invite you to watch this -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQFXuZRLMTY

Next, if you really want to be intellectually challenged about your biblical prophesies, I would highly suggest you take some time and read this -

http://www.scribd.com/doc/45184383/T...t-of-the-Bible

All the Quran says is that God did reveal revelations in the past, for example Moses(pbuh) gave his people the Torah. The Jews that first followed that did rightously, but over a period of time we Muslims believe the Torah had been changed and misinterpreted.

Do you (faithful believers) covet that they will believe in your religion inspite of the fact that a party of them (Jewish rabbis) used to hear the Word of Allah (the Taurat (Torah)), then they used to change it knowingly after they understood it? ( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #75)

If the Torah had been in original state, then what would be the need to send down Jesus(pbuh)? Jesus(pbuh) didn't bring about a new religion or anything, He was sent to the Jews to follow the ways of what Moses(pbuh) had taught them, the real law of God. However, the Jews rejected Jesus(pbuh) completly. This is why Muhammad(pbuh) had to be sent with the final word and warning of God, with the promise that God will protect this final scripture from human intervention.

This is just a small example of what you preach is from God.

"Kill every male child and baby and kill every woman who is not a virgin. But save for yourself the virgin girls." (numbers 31:17-18)"
When...God gives (a city) into your hands, kill all the men in it...Don not leave alive anything that breathes." (Deuteronomy 20:10-17)"
As for my enemies who do not want me (Jesus) to reign over them, bring them here and kill them in my presence." (Luke 19:26-27)"
Do not think I (Jesus) have come to send peace on earth. I did not come to send peace, but a sword." (Matthew 10:34)

Then you have pornography, instructions on how to beat a slave to an inch of their life, the rediculing of Prophets(pbut) etc. One just needs common sense to truly know that this isn't the original.

Read the Quran, hear the beauty of its recitation. I invite you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAvlimEYEpQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3g6jhO4tOK8

That is from the Creator of the heavens and the Earths.

[ApporpSothe]

Well, I think it's pretty clear that his is obviously not getting anywhere. Talking to brick walls is useless.