[maxtp]

hello just wondiring what you guy thnk of shias do you think there muslim or kafrs pleas share your ideas on them

[asharbiq]

السلام عليكم

Some of them are deviant Muslims and some are Kouffar.

[layedgebiamma]

السلام عليكم

Some of them are deviant Muslims and some are Kouffar.

TriplySunni, could you tell me what this says? Someone claimed it to be a clarification of a view on the Rafidi. However, as I do not know Arabic... well, just asking for clarification.

في شرح كشف الشبهات
قد صرّح الشيخ عبدالعزيز بن باز - رحمه الله - بكفر عواّمهم وأنهم يلحقون
بأئمتهم ، ولما قاتل النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم كفار قريش لم يفرق
بين أئمتهم وعوامّهم ، ولما سئل رحمه الله عن الإمامية في القطيف
والمنطقة الشرقية قال : هم كفار وعوامهم كفار ( وبأعيانهم )
قلت ( عبدالله ) : ووالله لقد سمعتها بأذني .
ملاحظة مهمة جدا : لن تجد هذه الزيادة في الأشرطة التي من إصدار البردين ، ستجدها مبتورة تماما ( الذي عنده الأشرطة من أول ما تم لها الفسح سيجدها ، وأما الموجودة الآن فقد تم حذفها من الإعلام (( للمصلحة !!!! ))
لعلّي أضع تفريغا حرفيا لهذه المسألة إن شاء الله قريبا .

[pymnConyelell]

As salam o Alaykum
i have a problem i love a shia girl i want to marry her so what is the right path to make her right muslim.

[rarpAcconavox]

As salam o Alaykum
i have a problem i love a shia girl i want to marry her so what is the right path to make her right muslim.

Think her as human...and marry...!!!after that u can change her attitude..!!!inshallah

[maxtp]

dont try to convert her you will lose her its ok for a man to marry a girl of a diffrent religion

[Arbinknit]

As salam o Alaykum
i have a problem i love a shia girl i want to marry her so what is the right path to make her right muslim.

Shes from ahlul kitab so its fine. If you get married inshallah you can slowly convince her

[ananciguinter]

Shes from ahlul kitab so its fine. If you get married inshallah you can slowly convince her

How are they from Ahlul Kitab while they believe that the Quran present today is incomplete and it had been changed by the companions of the Prophet .

[ananciguinter]

As salam o Alaykum
i have a problem i love a shia girl i want to marry her so what is the right path to make her right muslim.

Think her as human...and marry...!!!after that u can change her attitude..!!!inshallah

dont try to convert her you will lose her its ok for a man to marry a girl of a diffrent religion

It's not permissible for a Muslim to marry a shia girl unless she accepts Islam.

Allah Almighty says in the Quran, "Do not marry the polytheist women, unless they come to believe (in Islam); a Muslim slave-girl is better than a polytheist woman, even though she may attract you; and do not give (your women) in marriage to polytheist men, unless they come to believe; a Muslim slave is better than a polytheist, even though he may attract you. They invite to the Fire when Allah invites, by His will, to Paradise, and to forgiveness. He makes His verses clear to the people, so that they may heed the advice." [2:221]

[Arbinknit]

How are they from Ahlul Kitab while they believe that the Quran present today is incomplete and it had been changed by the companions of the Prophet .

Not all of them believe this, infact most of them dont. And the Christians and Jews are Ahlulkitab but they also dont believe in the validity of the Quran..

[tramadoldiscountes]

Not all of them believe this, infact most of them dont. And the Christians and Jews are Ahlulkitab but they also dont believe in the validity of the Quran..

The kufr of Chritians and Jews was evident at the time of revelation of the Qur'an, still they were considered Ahlul Kitab. Those who have been considered ahlul kitaab , are the ones mentioned by Qur'an. Since shia's kufr is after the testimony of eeman, therefore, ulama consider them to be murtaddeen ( Apostates ). Islamically, marriage with ahlul kitab is not permissible and will be fornication for the whole life ( Fatawa Rasheediyah for reference on this ).


Secondly, the brother who wants to marry a shia, I strongly advise you not to. Shias have had this reputation that they use their women to lure Muslims into their religion. This is the main way they got into Baloch tribes of Pakistan and Iran. There are many pure Sunni Muslim sisters out there, insha'Allah you'll find one. Don't follow your desire, follow what Allah's pleasure asks of you.

wassalaam

[ananciguinter]

Not all of them believe this, infact most of them dont. And the Christians and Jews are Ahlulkitab but they also dont believe in the validity of the Quran..

Majority of the shias believe that the Quran present today is incomplete and that the remaining part is with the hidden imam in the cave.

And who knows, probably the others are complying on taqiyyah (dissimulation).

[asharbiq]

TriplySunni, could you tell me what this says? Someone claimed it to be a clarification of a view on the Rafidi. However, as I do not know Arabic... well, just asking for clarification.

It is talking about the opinion that states that the Shia laymen are Muslims and the Shia Imams are Kouffar. I adopt this view myself.

في شرح كشف الشبهات
قد صرّح الشيخ عبدالعزيز بن باز - رحمه الله - بكفر عواّمهم وأنهم يلحقون
بأئمتهم ، ولما قاتل النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم كفار قريش لم يفرق
بين أئمتهم وعوامّهم ، ولما سئل رحمه الله عن الإمامية في القطيف
والمنطقة الشرقية قال : هم كفار وعوامهم كفار ( وبأعيانهم )
قلت ( عبدالله ) : ووالله لقد سمعتها بأذني .
ملاحظة مهمة جدا : لن تجد هذه الزيادة في الأشرطة التي من إصدار البردين ، ستجدها مبتورة تماما ( الذي عنده الأشرطة من أول ما تم لها الفسح سيجدها ، وأما الموجودة الآن فقد تم حذفها من الإعلام (( للمصلحة !!!! ))
لعلّي أضع تفريغا حرفيا لهذه المسألة إن شاء الله قريبا . Translation: In Sharh Kashf al-Shubuhat the famous Sheikh 'Abdul-'Aziz ibn Baz (rah) clearly stated the Kufr of their laymen(Shia) and that they follow their Imams in their Kufr, because when the prophet SAWS fought the Kouffar of Quraysh he did not differentiate between their laymen and their Imams.
When Ibn Baz (rah) was asked about the Imamis in al-Qateef and the eastern side of Saudi he said: "They are Kouffar and their Imams are Kouffar."

[asharbiq]

As salam o Alaykum
i have a problem i love a shia girl i want to marry her so what is the right path to make her right muslim.

السلام عليكم

It is better to marry someone who has correct Islamic belief.

If you are in too deep with this women and you really want to marry her then make sure that she does not believe in any of the following:

-Quran is incomplete.
-All or One of the companions is an apostate who will enter hell.
-Companions stole the right of Ali (ra) and Fatima (ra).
-Ali (ra) knows the future.
-Imams are better than the Prophets.
-He who does not believe in the Imamah is a Kaffir.
-Companions hated each-other.
-Aisha (ra) is a bad person.

She can believe that Ali (ra) was the best companion that's not such a big deal and she can believe in her hidden Mahdi.

You have to be sure that your children will have correct Islamic Aqeedah.

[cakaeroryrere]

How are they from Ahlul Kitab while they believe that the Quran present today is incomplete and it had been changed by the companions of the Prophet .

Don't lie. Remember: Allah's curse is upon the liars.

The majority, accepted opinion of the Shia Ulema' is that the Qur'an we have today is complete, free from any type of adulteration. We believe the Qur'an has undergone Tahreef, without doubt, but in its interpretation (Tafsir) only.

The bit about the Imam (may Allah [swt] hasten his reappearance) having a more complete Qur'an is reported in ahadith, but that doesn't render the Qur'an we read incomplete. The Qur'an he has is only 'more complete', because it has detailed explanations and tafsir of the verses in the Qur'an (which are essentially not part of the Qur'an). From Tafsir al Burhan (this is Imam Ali (a) speaking) :
"O Talha, every ayah that was revealed to the Prophet (‘s) by Allah is with me, dictated by the Prophet (‘s) and in my handwriting. And an explanation to every ayah in respect of that which is permissible, forbidden, penal code, laws or things of which this ummah may stand in need till the dawn of qiyamah. They are with me dictated by the Prophet (‘s) and written in my own hand, even the blood money required to compensate a scratch"

That fact that Imam Ali (a) had his own 'version' of the Qur'an is one that has been asserted in Sunni literature too. For example, in Izalat al Akhfa by Shah Waliullah.

My honest advice to you would be to remain silent on matters you are not knowledgeable about and to not spread hearsay, as it is tantamount to slander and causes nothing but unnecessary confusion.

Shes from ahlul kitab so its fine. If you get married inshallah you can slowly convince her

Although I would be least concerned about what others think of the Imamiyyah, I'm curious to know what makes us Kitabis?

[asharbiq]

They are neither Ahlul-Kitab nor Ahlul-Watermelon, they are either Deviant Muslims or Kouffar based on their beliefs, not all Twelvers share the same beliefs.

Regarding the Quran many of the companions had their own written copies and many had written notes and tafseers, the problem with the Shia is that they have narrations that state that there is a completely different Quran and if I recall the term "It has no letter from the Quran you have in your hands" was used.

As for the Twelvers, according to them 'Ali (ra) is some sort of demi-God who knows everything whereas the Islamic view of the scholars state that he was one of the biggest companions and the probably the most knowledgeable during his Caliphate but he was not infallible nor did he know everything.

قلت: يا رسول الله، إنا نزل بنا أمر ليس فيه بيان أمر ونهي، فما تأمرنا، قال: شاوروا الفقهاء والعابدين، ولا تمضوا فيه خاصة 'Ali (ra) asks the Prophet SAWS: "O messenger of Allah, if we encounter a situation and there is no clear divine text to prove its ruling if it's permissible or not, what do you order us to do then?" He SAWS said: "Consult the pious worshippers and the knowledgeable in matters of religion, do not take a decision on your own."

sources: Tareekh Khalifat ibn Khayyat p66, Manhaj 'Ali ibn abi Talib fil Da'awa ila Allah p78, Seerat Ameer al-Mumineen 'Ali by al-Sallaby p68.

And there is the famous incident in which 'Ali (ra) burns some heretics who were raising him above his level then ibn 'Abbas (ra) criticizes him for doing so as the Prophet SAWS forbade the punishment by the fire.

As for the Quran 'Ali ibn abi talib (ra) was extremely knowledgeable in Tafseer and Asbab al-Nuzoul and he would ask the people to come to him and learn about the explanation of verses as he says in the famous Hadith: "Ask me, Ask me, Ask me about the book of Allah"

[ananciguinter]

Don't lie. Remember: Allah's curse is upon the liars.

The majority, accepted opinion of the Shia Ulema' is that the Qur'an we have today is complete, free from any type of adulteration. We believe the Qur'an has undergone Tahreef, without doubt, but in its interpretation (Tafsir) only.

The bit about the Imam (may Allah [swt] hasten his reappearance) having a more complete Qur'an is reported in ahadith, but that doesn't render the Qur'an we read incomplete. The Qur'an he has is only 'more complete', because it has detailed explanations and tafsir of the verses in the Qur'an (which are essentially not part of the Qur'an). From Tafsir al Burhan (this is Imam Ali (a) speaking) :
"O Talha, every ayah that was revealed to the Prophet (‘s) by Allah is with me, dictated by the Prophet (‘s) and in my handwriting. And an explanation to every ayah in respect of that which is permissible, forbidden, penal code, laws or things of which this ummah may stand in need till the dawn of qiyamah. They are with me dictated by the Prophet (‘s) and written in my own hand, even the blood money required to compensate a scratch"

Actually, your views are based on Taqiyyah!

Let me remind you, your own words: "Don't lie. Remember: Allah's curse is upon the liars."

I'll provide some references (without any order) which proves that shia firmly believe in the tahreef of Quran:

1. An alteration in the Holy Quran. (Tehzeeb-ul-Ahkaam 7:415)

2. Whoever claims that he has compiled the Quran as it was revealed, is a liar. No one compiled it and no one learnt it as it was revealed, except Ali bin Abi Talib and the Imams after him." (Usool-e-Kaafi P.139)

3. Al-Kulaini, relates in his book 'Al-Kafi on the authority of Imam Jaffar Sadiq who is reported to have said: "The Qur'an which Gabriel had brought down unto Muhammad contained seventeen thousand verses." (Al-Kafi 2:634, Al-Shafi 2:616)

4. The fourth point (to prove that the Qur'an has been altered) is special narrations which clearly indicate or imply that the Qur'an is like the Taurah and the Injeel in relation to interpolation and alteration in it. (Such special narrations) indicate that the munafiqeen [referring to Hadhrat Abu Bakr and Umar ] who hoisted themselves on the ummah followed the same path as the Bani Israel regarding alteration in the Qur'an. This is independent proof for our claim (of change in the Qur'an). (Faslul Khitab P.70)

5. Allama Majlisi: To me the narrations about tahreef in Quran are really mutawatir (continued), if these narrations are abandoned, it would discredit all our art of hadith, even that according to my knowledge, the narrations about tahreef in Quran are not less than those of the issue of Imamat, therefore if the narrations of Tahreef in Quran are not trusted, the creed of Imamat as well can’t be proven through narrations. (Faslul Khitab)

6. Those who have rejected (aqeedah of) Tahreef in Quran (i.e. Shaykh Sudooq, Shareef Murtadha, Tusi and mufassir Tabrasi) have done so due to many considerations (expediency) (i.e. due to taqiyyah to fool sunnis) because they have accommodated such hadiths and traditions in their books in a big number which claim that Quran has undergone tampering and that the so and so verse was revealed this way but later on it was tampered. (Anwarun Numaniyah 2:257)

7. Molvi Dildaar ‘Ali says, after quoting some hadiths over Tahreef (in Quran) transmitted from the leaders of creation (i.e. Imams of Ahl-al-Bayt): The conclusion of these narrations is that there was certainly a tampering (tahreef) in this Quran which is before us, with respect to an addition of some letters (huroof) and a loss of some letters even some words and with respect to the order. In this way after believing in these narrations, there cannot be any doubt in the tampering of Quran. (Emadul Islam)

8. The meaning of all these narrations as well as the hadiths which have been transmitted with the sanad of Ahl-al-Bayt, is that the Quran which is with us is not exactly as it was descent on Muhammad sallAllahu ‘alayhe wasallam but in it something is opposite to what Allah descent and there are some changes and tampering and certainly much of its content has been removed for example the name of (Imam) ‘Ali from many places, in addition to this it is known from these narrations that the order of this Quran (arrangement of verses and chapters) is not as was agreed by God and His Messenger. This all is agreed upon by ‘Ali bin Ibrahim Qummi. (Tafsir-e-Saafi P.32)

9. Angels bring messages to Imams that even the prophets did not receive (Tafseerul Burhan 4:484)

10. Pakistan is mentioned in the Original Holy Quran, present Quran is meaningless. (Hazaar Tumhari Das Hamari P.554)

تلك عشرة كاملة

[ananciguinter]

That fact that Imam Ali (a) had his own 'version' of the Qur'an is one that has been asserted in Sunni literature too. For example, in Izalat al Akhfa by Shah Waliullah.

My honest advice to you would be to remain silent on matters you are not knowledgeable about and to not spread hearsay, as it is tantamount to slander and causes nothing but unnecessary confusion.

Let me once again remind you, your own words: "Don't lie. Remember: Allah's curse is upon the liars."

Now give me the exact reference where Shah Waliullah has written such a thing about Sayyidina Ali or else I will prove from this very book, ازالۃ الخفاء عن خلافۃ الخلفاء, that Sayyidina Ali did believe in the same Quran on which other companions believe.

By the way, Shah Waliullah in this book, ازالۃ الخفاء عن خلافۃ الخلفاء, in 12 occasions passed the judgment of kufr against the shia and counted them amongst the rejecters of Khatmun Nubuwwah.

I'll give some references of Shah Waliullah , his father and his son in my next post.

My honest advice to you is that try to act on your own advises before passing it to others.

[asharbiq]

Let me once again remind you, your own words: "Don't lie. Remember: Allah's curse is upon the liars."

Now give me the exact reference where Shah Waliullah has written such a thing about Sayyidina Ali or else I will prove from this very book, ازالۃ الخفاء عن خلافۃ الخلفاء, that Sayyidina Ali did believe in the same Quran on which other companions believe.

By the way, Shah Waliullah in this book, ازالۃ الخفاء عن خلافۃ الخلفاء, in 12 occasions passed the judgment of kufr against the shia and counted them amongst the rejecters of Khatmun Nubuwwah.

I'll give some references of Shah Waliullah , his father and his son in my next post.

My honest advice to you is that try to act on your own advises before passing it to others.

He probably doesn't mean "Version" he means "copy".

[ananciguinter]

He probably doesn't mean "Version" he means "copy".

If so, then why does he mention that particularly?

Answer from their books:

1. Any human being who claims to have collected the Quran in its complete form is a liar. Only Ali [] and the Imams collected it all and preserved it." (Al-usool min al-Kafi 1:228).

2. I said to Imam Ali Musa (the 8th Imam), "we hear from you Quranic verses which we have not learned. Are we committing sins by not reciting them?' The Imam said 'No, read the way you have learned. Someone will come to teach you' referring to the 12th Imam who will reappear and bring with him the complete version according to the Shiite belief" (Al-Kafi min al-Usool 2:663; also see al Khateeb P.11).

3. A certain person recited unto Abu Abd Allah (Imam Jaffar Saddiq) a verse (from the Quran) and I was listening to the letter from the Quran which people generally do not recite in that manner. Abu Abd Allah asked him: "Abstain from that reading. Read it as the people read it, till an Imam (leader), twelfth Imam is commissioned. When the twelfth Imam is commissioned, He will read The book of Allah, The Mighty, The majectic. He will read it in his own peculiar way. He will take out the copy of the Quran which Ali wrote in his own hand. Then He added: Ali brought it out for the people when he had finished with its transcription. (Ali) said to the people: "This is the book of Allah, The Mighty, The Majestic, as Allah had revealed it unto Muhammad Peace of Allah be upon him and upon his prosperity -- and I've collected it in the two boards. People said: We do have us a complete copy of the Quran: We do not need yours. (Ali) said: "You will never find it again after this day: It was however my bounden duty to tell you that I have collected the Quran that you may read it. (Al-Kafi 2:633, Tehran).