[u8MmZFmF]

I never knew of this concept of "Sayyids" I was always raised that all Muslims are equal and there was never such a thing of "Lords" or "kings" in Islam.

I didn't even know there were shias & sunnis (i'm sunni myself) because my madrasa just focused on islamic history and Islam as one, none of this divisive stuff.

Anyway I became aware of Shias when I moved and made friends Shia friends, and the first thing they asked me was whether I was Shia, I said I'm a muslim, until i had to go ask my parents.

Anyway theses Shias (khojas btw) started going about how Sayyids are "pure" and descendents of Prophet Muhammed (SAW) and that they were "better" muslims etc.

I don't believe in Sayyids based on common sense, first of all all of these "sayyids" I've met are all Pakistani or Indian, I've never met a non-pakistani/indian Sayyid or a non-pakistani/indian sayyid that introduced themselves as sayyids.

Second, how do you trace you family all the way back to that time. If I look at my own family tree is large and complicated.

third, what if someone changed their lastname and convinced people they were a sayyid for their children's benefit.

fourth, if Sayyid are descendants of the Prophets (SAW) then why are so many of these kids who are "Sayyids" the worst examples of Muslims.

Lastly, I know its BS because "Sayyids" get special treatment, apparently they're are paid enormous sums of money to "bless" homes (i know as fact its happened) and preform certain religious ceremonies. Girls are almost literally "SOLD" to "Sayyid" husbands so the family can marry into the "Sayyid" clan.

It all sounds like a system created by someone so they enrich themselves.

[nintenda]

I don't believe in Sayyids based on common sense, first of all all of these "sayyids" I've met are all Pakistani or Indian, I've never met a non-pakistani/indian Sayyid or a non-pakistani/indian sayyid that introduced themselves as sayyids.

What don't you believe in Sayyids? What did the non indopak Syeds introduce themselves as? You've never met any because they are not called Sayyids everywhere. You will find alot of Syeds in Madinah and Makkah. They are called Shareef here. Their family name is Al-Shareef. In Yemen they are called Hashmi. In other Arab places they are called hashmis. Its only in IndoPak they are called Syeds. Syed means Master. Because of their lineage, people respected them and called them Syeds.

Second, how do you trace you family all the way back to that time. If I look at my own family tree is large and complicated. You don't trace it. Your family tree is with you. Family trees of Syeds are the most protected ones. They are widely published everywhere. And most of the Syeds protect their family trees like Gold. Family trees can be long but never complicated. They are very simple.

third, what if someone changed their lastname and convinced people they were a sayyid for their children's benefit. What can be said about this? Anyone can do anything to gain worldly benefits. What can you do? Nothing.

fourth, if Sayyid are descendants of the Prophets (SAW) then why are so many of these kids who are "Sayyids" the worst examples of Muslims. It's not just about Syed. Why are most of the muslims worst examples of humanity? Syeds are also human beings, not Angels.

Lastly, I know its BS because "Sayyids" get special treatment, apparently they're are paid enormous sums of money to "bless" homes (i know as fact its happened) and preform certain religious ceremonies. Girls are almost literally "SOLD" to "Sayyid" husbands so the family can marry into the "Sayyid" clan. What is BS? All this happens because people have enormous amount of respect for Syeds. Ofcourse wrong is wrong. But if you respect Syeds because they are the descendants of Rasool Allah then theres nothing wrong with it. And if someon wants to marry in the Syed clan then its also not wrong. It becomes wrong only when you cross the limits of Islam.

When Hazrat Umar married Hazrat Um Kulsoom, daugher of Hazrat Ali , he said i married her because i've heard Rasool Allah say that all the lineages will finish on the day of Judgement except My lineage. That's why i wanted to link my Nasab with Rasool Allah

It all sounds like a system created by someone so they enrich themselves. It may sound that way but it's not. Because it isn't created by anyone. Everything in the world can be exploited. If someone exploits a good thing, it doesn't make the good thing bad.

[Ikhqgvas]

fourth, if Sayyid are descendants of the Prophets (SAW) then why are so many of these kids who are "Sayyids" the worst examples of Muslims.

This is kind of silly. Nuh Alayhis Salaam's son was a kaafir. Ibraheem Alayhis Salaam's father was a Kaafir. Musa Alayhis Salaam's nephew was the cursed Samiri, and his cousin was Qaroon, also cursed.

Who you're related to has no bearing on your relationship with Allah.

[Coollabioto]

Assalaamu alaikum
Can a member of this forum who is a saiyed produce his family tree here?
wasalaam

[nintenda]

Assalaamu alaikum
Can a member of this forum who is a saiyed produce his family tree here?
wasalaam

I would've posted it but i don't have it with me here right now. It's with my brother and he's very far away. They don't give it to me so it doesn't get lost. I know only till 4.

Taliban bin Arshad bin Nazir bin Muhammad Ali....( رحمهم الله)

it goes to Sheikh Abdul Qadir Jilani RA and from there you can find it in a lot of places.

[Ikhqgvas]

My dadi and my mother's dadi (dadi = paternal grandmother) both are Syed as well, both their family trees meet up to Shaykh Abdul Qaadir Jilani . However since lineage passes through the father, it did not pass to any of my parents.

[BarBoss]

Oh come on! To all those people going on about how hard it is to produce your lineage, have you never heard of the books of taraajim and ansaab? This was an entire genre of books which the Arabs gave special attention to.

The following are a few examples of famous, relied-upon books which recorded the ancestries of the saadah (plural of sayyids) in particular.

-- 'Umdat at-Talib fi Ansab Aal Abi Talib -- Ahmad bin 'Ambah (d. 868 h)
-- Jawahir al-'Iqdayn fi Ansabi Abnaa' as-Sibtayn -- 'Ali as-Samhudi (d. 911 h)
-- Ghayat al-Ikhtisar, fi l-buyutat al-'Alawiyyah, al-mahfudhah min al-ghubar -- Abu Talib Taqi ad-Din an-Naqib
-- Tuhfat az-Zaman fi Tarikhi Saadat al-Yemen (this book specializes on the saadah of Yemen, dispelling your foolish notion of saadah only existing in the sub-continent) -- al-Muhaddith Husayn b. 'Abd ar-Rahman al-Ahdal
-- at-Tuhfat al-'Anbariyyah fi Ansabi Khayr al-Bariyyah -- Abu Fadl Muhammad al-Kadhim
-- 'Uqud al-Almas (bi manaqib al-Habib Ahmad al-'Attas) has a section on ansab
-- Murtada az-Zabidi (major muhaddith, faqih, historian and linguist who wrote the famous sharh on the Ihya) commentated on Mashjar al-Kashaaf.

There are many more, and most of the authors were Arab.

was-salam

[WhonyGataxott]

[QUOTE=imali;619254

It all sounds like a system created by someone so they enrich themselves.[/QUOTE]

Assalamoualaikoum

FYI many sayyids are poor.

Ayaz

[Ikhqgvas]

^^ that's true. Many would be saahibun nisaab if they were not sayyid. However since they are, they can only accept gifts.

[soipguibbom]

The ships of salvation in stormy seas
hold on tight for the coming ease

the pure, from the most Pure (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam Wa Ala aalih) of the purified
whose love is obligatory and so of his family (Sallallahu alaihi wa aalih wasallam)

For all the lineages will be erased to dust
except his, so be careful! be mindful! (Sallallahu Alaihi wa aalihi wasallam)

[feqlmwtuqx]

السلام عليكم

Sayyeds are found in Islam but their status means absolutely nothing nor does it give them special privileges, if they sin they go to hell, in fact in I've already mentioned this but in Lebanon we have five Christian families who are Sayyeds.

Only scholars who are experts in the field of genealogy may study your family tree and inform you if you are a Sayyed or not.

Many claim to be Sayyeds just to get a higher status in society, some even buy family trees.

The vast majority of Shia scholars claiming to be Sayyeds are liars of the highest order and they cannot prove it with authentic Sahih evidence.

I've read many Hadiths from the members of Ahlul-Bayt and you can see for yourselves what their attitude was regarding this matter as one of them was having a discussion with a Shia:


حدثنا محمد بن عاصم حدثنا شبابة حدثنا الفضيل بن مرزوق قال سمعت الحسن بن الحسن أخا عبد الله بن الحسن وهو يقول لرجل ممن يغلو فيهم ويحكم أحبونا لله فإن اطعنا الله فأحبونا وان عصينا الله بابغضونا فإن قال فقال له رجل إنكم ذو قرابة رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم واهل بيته فقال ويحكم لو كان الله عز وجل نافعا بقرابة من رسوله بغير عمل بطاعته لنفع بذلك من هو أقرب إليه منا أباه وامه والله إني لاخاف أن يضاعف للعاصي منا العذاب ضعفين والله إني لارجو أن يوتى المحسن منا أجره مرتين قال ثم قال لقد أساء بنا آباؤنا وامهاتنا إن كان آباؤنا ما تقولون في دين الله ثم لم يخبرونا به ولم يطلعونا عليه ولم يرغبونا فيه فنحن والله كنا اقرب منهم قرابة منكم وأوجب عليهم حقا وأحق بأن يرغبونا فيه منكم ولو كان الأمر كما تقولون ان الله ورسوله اختارا عليا لهذا الامر والقيام على الناس بعد إن كان عليا لأعظم الناس في ذلك خطيئة وجرما إذ ترك امر رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم أن يقوم فيه كما امره أو يعذر فيه الى الناس قال فقال له الرافضي ألم يقل رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم لعلي من كنت مولاه فعلي مولاه قال أما والله أن لو يعني رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم بذلك الإمرة والسلطان والقيام على الناس لافصح عمر لهم بذلك كما افصح لهم بالصلاة والزكاة وصيام رمضان وحج البيت ولقال لهم أيها الناس إن هذا ولي امركم من بعدي فاسمعوا له واطيعوا فما كان من وراء هذا شيئا فإن أنصح الناس كان للمسلمين رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم Ibn Katheer in al-Bidayah wal Nihayah 9/178 and al-Haythami in al-Sawa'eq al-Muhriqa p346:

Muhammad ibn 'Asim from Shubabah from al-Fudayl ibn Marzuq; he said: I heard al-Hassan ibn al-Hassan the brother of 'Abdullah bin al-Hassan saying to a Man who was making Ghulu in Ahlul-Bayt(means raising them above their level): "Beware! you should love us for Allah so if we obey him then love us and if we disobey him then hate us." The Man said: "But you are a close relative of the Prophet PBUH and from his Ahlul-bayt." al-Hassan replied:"Cease! If Allah wanted to benefit the relatives of the Prophet SAWS without them being pious and obedient to him then he would have benefited his mother and his father those who were even closer to him than us, by Allah I fear that the punishment for us will be doubled and I hope that Allah will double the reward of the pious amongst us." al-Hassan continued telling that extremist: "If what you say is a part of the religion of Allah then it is our fathers and mothers who have wronged us by not telling us about this matter because it is our right to know this since we are closer to them -Ali and his children- than you, and if it was as you say that Allah and his Prophet SAWS chose 'Ali for this affair and this responsibility then the one who is most sinful amongst us would be 'Ali since he abandoned the order of the Prophet SAWS." Thus the Rafidhi said to him: "Didn't the Prophet SAWS tell 'Ali: Man Kuntu Mawlah fa 'Aliyun Mawlah?" al-Hassan replied: "By Allah if the Prophet SAWS had meant the emirate and the leadership of the people then 'Umar would have stated it just like he told the people to make Salat and Siyam and Hajj and Zakat and he would have said: O people this is your Wali-al-Amr (leader) after me so listen to him and obey him. There was none of this."

Grading:

قال المزي في تهذيب الكمال (6|88): «وهذا من أصح الأسانيد وأعلاها». al-Mezzi said in Tahtheeb al-Kamal 6/88: "And this is from the highest and most authentic Isnads"

case closed.

[ZonaPutaX]

One point to note there are many fake sayeed and many who claim to sayeed inorder to justify irrelegious act. Be aware of such fake sayeed/ fake shaikh

I had a relative who claims to be sayeed but when questioned about the geneolgy it does not make sense. Many of the true sayeed of the past used to hid the fact of their lineage because they felt they could live up to responsibilities. So ask yourself are these people claiming to be sayeed are they really.

The Prophet (PBUH and HF) said: "We (I and my family) are members of a household that Allah (SWT) has chosen for them the life of the Hereafter over the life of this world; and the members of my household (Ahlul-Bayt) shall suffer a great affliction and they shall be forcefully expelled from their homes after my death. Sunan Ibn Majah

Whilst acknowledging there will be many true sayyids scattered around, it has to be similarly ackowledged that there are many, many many fake charlatans around swindling ignorant muslims out of their hard earned cash.

There are plenty of "Syeds" around milking their alleged status to benefit themselves and it is right to point this practice out.

A true sayyid is noble and spiritual, you will be struck by his piety and you will be oblivious of his alleged status. Unfortunantly theres too many of the other kind.