[Gilowero]

Reading books on Tassawuf,one comes across a term salbe nisbat,that is when one Wali breaks the connection between Allah swt and another wali. It seems very odd that a Waliullah should deliberately break the spiritual link between Allah and his Abd, and weather it is possible at all ? So either i don,t understand it correctly or this thing is just a myth like many other myths. Please help !

[Nfxutkpa]

You are correct. No one can break this connection. Only an individual himself can break it by involvement in sinful.

Hakimul Ummat Maulana Shah Ashraf Ali Thanvi rehmatullah said the same.

However, he added that it is possible to drain away the spiritual energy of zauq & shauq that leads to volitional involvement in sinful and abandoning of the good deeds, which eventually break the connection.

Qutub-e-feil have this capability.

Maybe others can add more to this, inshaAllah.

[Gilowero]

You are correct. No one can break this connection. Only an individual himself can break it by involvement in sinful.

Hakimul Ummat Maulana Shah Ashraf Ali Thanvi rehmatullah said the same.

However, he added that it is possible to drain away the spiritual energy of zauq & shauq that leads to volitional involvement in sinful and abandoning of the good deeds, which eventually break the connection.

Qutub-e-feil have this capability.

Maybe others can add more to this, inshaAllah. JazakAllah Brother. What is Qutub_e_feil ?

[sjdflghd]

Reading books on Tassawuf,one comes across a term salbe nisbat,that is when one Wali breaks the connection between Allah swt and another wali. It seems very odd that a Waliullah should deliberately break the spiritual link between Allah and his Abd, and weather it is possible at all ? So either i don,t understand it correctly or this thing is just a myth like many other myths. Please help !

As rightly said by bro abdalshay.. nisbat with Allah (swt) cannot be broken unless the person intends to do so either by shirk or persistent and bold indulgence in gunah e kabeera with no remorse..

other nisbat say of a particular tareeqa like ahwal and kaifiyaat of someone can be seized...to cite an incident..

A Bukhari darwesh was visiting Delhi in the time of Hazrat Shah Abdul Aziz Muhaddith dehlvi (rah).. asked someone to guide him around the mashaikh. now this clever guy placed a condition saying that only if he discloses their maqamat would he oblidge to guide the darwesh. he agreed and both set out..
met Hazrat Shah Abdul Aziz Dehlvi (rah).. and informed the guide tht hazrat is on such lofty maqam etc..
then to hazrat Shah Abdul ghani dehlvi (rah).. and again on return informed his condtion to the guide..

next they set forth to meet Hazrat Shah Abdul Qadir Dehlvi (rah) who was in itikaaf writing ' mawzih ul Qur'an ' ( the 1st urdu translation of the qur'an ) so the darwish met hazrat and came back.. as per norm the guide inquired.. he replied as nothing.. the guide asked him again u saw nothing.. ? he said yeah.. the moment i stepped on the masjid stairs all my kaifiyaat disappeared and i became like a child.. i met Hazrat.. saw nothing.. and when i took leave stepped down the masjid.. everything came back again..

wa assalam..

[EbrsaRynleot]

Reading books on Tassawuf,one comes across a term salbe nisbat,that is when one Wali breaks the connection between Allah swt and another wali. It seems very odd that a Waliullah should deliberately break the spiritual link between Allah and his Abd, and weather it is possible at all ? So either i don,t understand it correctly or this thing is just a myth like many other myths. Please help !

Please give citation.

[Gilowero]

Please give citation.

Come on Shaikh Fusoos, I did not expect it from you.It is very well known phenomena in sufi,s.I can give multiple examples but i will have to read a lot of books for it and then write it here,I am sure you are aware of this phenomena,Why ask for reference?

[Stacypettlerr]

Come on Shaikh Fusoos, I did not expect it from you.It is very well known phenomena in sufi,s.I can give multiple examples but i will have to read a lot of books for it and then write it here,I am sure you are aware of this phenomena,Why ask for reference?

One reason is because the term can be used in different contexts and with different intended meanings. A citation can help in better advising what was meant in that particular context.

[Gilowero]

One reason is because the term can be used in different contexts and with different intended meanings. A citation can help in better advising what was meant in that particular context.

Dr76 has explained in his letter what i meant. Sorry, i have no time to find citations.i am sure both you shuookh know what i mean, if you are interested to answer you are most welcome,otherwise you can ignore it.jazakAllah

[EbrsaRynleot]

Come on Shaikh Fusoos, I did not expect it from you.It is very well known phenomena in sufi,s.I can give multiple examples but i will have to read a lot of books for it and then write it here,I am sure you are aware of this phenomena,Why ask for reference?

No I didnt mean for proof, I wanted the citation to see what book you read and what the author was talking about. I already know salb happens.

Anyways why out of all tasawwuf concepts is salb e nisbat is emphasized, why not nisbat ma'Allah? Why not talk about HOW to develop nisbat?

[allaboutauto.us]

Assalam o 'alaykum,

There is an incident in a Sufi book called Rashahaat or Nafahaat about a certain sufi shaykh performing salb-i-nisbat. Mujaddid Alf al-Thani (may Allah have mercy on him) severly cricited this in one of his maktub and mentions that it is not possible for any human to do such a thing. If I can locate this maktub, I will post it here.

[sjdflghd]

Assalam o 'alaykum,

There is an incident in a Sufi book called Rashahaat or Nafahaat about a certain sufi shaykh performing salb-i-nisbat. Mujaddid Alf al-Thani (may Allah have mercy on him) severly cricited this in one of his maktub and mentions that it is not possible for any human to do such a thing. If I can locate this maktub, I will post it here.

was it ' Nafahaat ul uns ' by Shaikh Abdur rahman jamii ..?

wa assalam..

[eFDMBwKH]

No I didnt mean for proof, I wanted the citation to see what book you read and what the author was talking about. I already know salb happens.

Anyways why out of all tasawwuf concepts is salb e nisbat is emphasized, why not nisbat ma'Allah? Why not talk about HOW to develop nisbat?

Maybe someone stole his nisbat? Or he saw it happening

[soyclocky]

Reading books on Tassawuf,one comes across a term salbe nisbat,that is when one Wali breaks the connection between Allah swt and another wali. It seems very odd that a Waliullah should deliberately break the spiritual link between Allah and his Abd, and weather it is possible at all ? So either i don,t understand it correctly or this thing is just a myth like many other myths. Please help !

as Salamu alaikum

It seems some people with high nisbat can do it. I think they do it to teach the person concerned a lesson and give it back to him. I have heard that nisbat can be transferred from one person to another too. Anyone heard of this concept?

Sorry to derail the thread

[MaraReenece]

No I didnt mean for proof, I wanted the citation to see what book you read and what the author was talking about. I already know salb happens.

Anyways why out of all tasawwuf concepts is salb e nisbat is emphasized, why not nisbat ma'Allah? Why not talk about HOW to develop nisbat?

OK, shaikh, teach us How to develop nisbat: step by step.
and please don,say go to a shaikh. For a while you are the internet Shaikh.
Let us try this concept of FAIZ through the internet.

[MaraReenece]

Maybe someone stole his nisbat? Or he saw it happening

Take care of your own nisbat Ahle Zikr,this brother Chathe seems a little jalai type to me !

[eFDMBwKH]

No he is very kind, he will only give, our uncle Chathe... he will not take
Any other reasons why someone might take away anothers nisbat?

[EbrsaRynleot]

OK, shaikh, teach us How to develop nisbat: step by step.
and please don,say go to a shaikh. For a while you are the internet Shaikh.
Let us try this concept of FAIZ through the internet.

Yes, internet shaikh is right. On internet anyone can be anything and usually everyone becomes a mufti or alim or shaikh.

I am sorry but this idea of nisbat, or you can say that the candle of nisbat, is very unique in that it is lit only when it is touched by another candle. So going to shaikh is the first requirement and condition. However, I will say one thing that comes to mind and you can check with others on this: the key to nisbat seems to be steadfastness. Correct me if I am wrong.



To find a guide is the first condition to Wusool e Haq. Carrying out haphazard means based on self experimentation and limited knowledge is a useless waste of time.

[rbVmVlQ2]

Assalam o 'alaykum,

There is an incident in a Sufi book called Rashahaat or Nafahaat about a certain sufi shaykh performing salb-i-nisbat. Mujaddid Alf al-Thani (may Allah have mercy on him) severly cricited this in one of his maktub and mentions that it is not possible for any human to do such a thing. If I can locate this maktub, I will post it here.

Assalamu Alaikum

I think i agree with this point, Shiekh Yunus Sahib says that whatever one gets its his taqdeer, people say that by the gaze of a wali someones life changes, then this is all hearsay.

Haji Imadullah r.a also says the same thing, that a mureed gets what is written for him.

As Sheikh Fusoos states that being steadfast on what the sheikh prescribes you is a means to attain nisbat, if the sheikh see's you carrying out his orders to the letter, and Allah as always is aware that you are striving against nafs to reach him then surely he will give this nisbat. The sheikh will make dua for you and also by staying in the company of the sheikh, the love that the sheikh has for Allah and his rasool, that is transferred to you. Hence they say stay in good company and avoid bad company. Because merely being in the presence of good and evil has an effect on ones character.

With regards to salb e nisbat, the logics make sense in that if someone with a strong tawajuh puts dark thoughts into ones heart then this may affect the bond they hold with Allah because the inclination to do evil will be in the persons heart. The question is why a righteous person would do such a thing? and having done this act how is his relationship will Allah be affected? Only answer i can think of is that whetever happened salb e nisbat was the means and what happened was destined for him. Allah knows best.

This reminds me of an incident i read about a young revert in india who was praying at Mazahir ul Uloom and once he strayed some way away from the madrassah and some hindu yogis did some tawajuh on him so that he felt someone calling out to him about Hinduism (which was his religion before he adopted Islam). He related this matter to Sheikh Zakariyah r.a who sent him to Maulana Abdul Qadir Raipuri r.a , who did some sort of tawajuh on him that free'd him from what the Yogi's did to him.

[EbrsaRynleot]

Assalamu Alaikum

I think i agree with this point, Shiekh Yunus Sahib says that whatever one gets its his taqdeer, people say that by the gaze of a wali someones life changes, then this is all hearsay.

Haji Imadullah r.a also says the same thing, that a mureed gets what is written for him.

As Sheikh Fusoos states that being steadfast on what the sheikh prescribes you is a means to attain nisbat, if the sheikh see's you carrying out his orders to the letter, and Allah as always is aware that you are striving against nafs to reach him then surely he will give this nisbat. The sheikh will make dua for you and also by staying in the company of the sheikh, the love that the sheikh has for Allah and his rasool, that is transferred to you. Hence they say stay in good company and avoid bad company. Because merely being in the presence of good and evil has an effect on ones character.

With regards to salb e nisbat, the logics make sense in that if someone with a strong tawajuh puts dark thoughts into ones heart then this may affect the bond they hold with Allah because the inclination to do evil will be in the persons heart. The question is why a righteous person would do such a thing? and having done this act how is his relationship will Allah be affected? Only answer i can think of is that whetever happened salb e nisbat was the means and what happened was destined for him. Allah knows best.

This reminds me of an incident i read about a young revert in india who was praying at Mazahir ul Uloom and once he strayed some way away from the madrassah and some hindu yogis did some tawajuh on him so that he felt someone calling out to him about Hinduism (which was his religion before he adopted Islam). He related this matter to Sheikh Zakariyah r.a who sent him to Maulana Abdul Qadir Raipuri r.a , who did some sort of tawajuh on him that free'd him from what the Yogi's did to him.

That's why I asked him to give citation so that the entire matter can come before us. If the citation comes from an incident in the lives of pious buzrugh's then we can totally understand the issue front and back as to what happened and why it happened.

[MaraReenece]

Yes, internet shaikh is right. On internet anyone can be anything and usually everyone becomes a mufti or alim or shaikh.

I am sorry but this idea of nisbat, or you can say that the candle of nisbat, is very unique in that it is lit only when it is touched by another candle. So going to shaikh is the first requirement and condition. However, I will say one thing that comes to mind and you can check with others on this: the key to nisbat seems to be steadfastness. Correct me if I am wrong.



To find a guide is the first condition to Wusool e Haq. Carrying out haphazard means based on self experimentation and limited knowledge is a useless waste of time.

MashaAllah, JazakAllah Shaikh Fusoos,i shall take it as my first lesson.A few things came automatically to my mind,i present them for correction.Why Shaikh is needed?
1.Shaikh is a human being,though much more superior but still human,and it is the law of nature that one learns from its kind.
2. Every skill needs a teacher,may that be making shoes, no one can fully learn it from books,leave alone mastering it.A science as sophisticated as Tassawuf obviously needs a teacher more than any other skill.
3. A student,Sitting in suhba of shaikh attracts the habits and ideas of Shaikh both on conscious and subconscious levels.
4. the student observes how his Shaikh deals with different situations & what is the sunna way of dealing with different events.so all the time he gets practical lessons in Din,which is a treasure because these lessons include the summary of the learning of a whole life of his Shaikh.
5. A muttaqi shaikh has a baraka, once he accepts a student,the student gradually starts transforming from, a sinner to less sinner and then even a pious person with the help of Allah swt,If at all a sin heppens he gets taufeeq of tauba,Performing good deeds becomes ever easier for him (though it still require the student,s own will)
6.The nisbat itself is a "noor" transferred from qalb to qalb, as compared to knowledge which transfers from mind to mind.Obviously then, connection of qalb to qalb is a must in this line.
7.The Shaikh has passed through the ups & downs of this delicate path,once he was a student,some one had guided him on this path,now he is helping others."those who know,and those who don,t-can,t be the same"