[ugosanchezo]

The arab brother replied that the fazail/virtues of spending one morning and evening in khurooj is far more then a person offering tahajjud salah in haram sharif during the night of laylatul-qadr in the month of ramadan. That fazail of going in the path of Allah Ta'ala had motivated us to leave our home.

Is this virtue being attributed to Khurooj [going out] in Jamat by way of the Fadhl [virture] for going out for "fi sabilillah" [in the path of Allah] or is there some other hadeeth etc being used to attribute this fadhl [virture]?

The hadeeth of morning and eavening in path of Allah is indeed under the fadhl of khuruj fi sabilillah.

once you respond, then perhaps i can clarify or correct a misunderstanding here.

[Cyclicymn]

this thread was going well untill this.....

The solution to all the masail of deeni & dunyawi issues lies in the effort of dawate.

have you got any evidence for this bold statement from the quran and hadith?

[TyncTyncSah]

?
The work of the TJ is for islah.

whos islah? and who does whos islah in tabligh?

islah of the inner self does not get done in tabligh at all this can only be done by a shaykh.

no one treats themselves when ill. how can self islah be done with out a spiritual doctor?

[TyncTyncSah]

[QUOTE=shoeb.momin;602753]Siraj bhai good reply. Pls call me tomorrow post lunch.




Doing the work of dawat is fard-e-ain. It is the responsibilty of each and every ummati.

which of the fuqaha have mentioned such?

[TyncTyncSah]

this thread was going well untill this.....



have you got any evidence for this bold statement from the quran and hadith?

you are correct. this is due to the ghuloo of many jamaat brothers. when all our fuqaha as well as akaabir including hadrat ml ilyas sb stressed on the importance of islah and went to the mashaaikh for it. as ml ilyas himself mentioned for ilm go to the people of ilm and for zikr go to the people of zikr. (malfoozat ml ilyas).

[gabbaman]

Everyone is a muballigh. The Qur'aan mentions that we are the Best of Ummah, we enjoin to good and stop evil. This is da'wah, is it not? Calling towards Islam?

Tableegh is a duty for all Muslims. This doesn't mean that the method for it is only one.

[metropropuskruww]

whos islah? and who does whos islah in tabligh?

islah of the inner self does not get done in tabligh at all this can only be done by a shaykh.

no one treats themselves when ill. how can self islah be done with out a spiritual doctor?

I don't want to start any fighting or derail the thread, but to be honest denying that any sort of self-reformation takes in Jama'at place is absurd, brother. Even Mufti Muhammad Rafi' Usmani mentioned (on many occasions I think), that Islah can be done by both Tabligh & Tasawwuf.

[gabbaman]

I don't want to start any fighting or derail the thread, but to be honest denying that any sort of self-reformation takes in Jama'at place is absurd, brother. Even Mufti Muhammad Rafi' Usmani mentioned (on many occasions I think), that Islah can be done by both Tabligh & Tasawwuf.

The difference is tasawwuf is exclusive for islaah while TJ is biggest part daw'ah and tableegh along with islaah. So going back to OP, the brother should opt for both, because he'll gain something different and good from both works

[Blaxastij]

Just like there's more than one way to give Da'wah, there's also more than one way for making one's islah. The effect that they will have (giving da'wah/making one's islah) is in proportion to how close it is to Sunnah. Done deal. Open shut, case closed johnson!

[TyncTyncSah]

i go in jamaat regularly cannot see how islah is done in jamaat? jamaat is not for islah, otherwise ml ilyas r would not go to his shaykh for his islah.
if islah could be done by oneself there would be no need for the likes of hakeemul ummat, ml rashid a ghangohi etc to go in the suhbat of Haji imdadullah for their islah.

ml abrarul haq r mentiones: tabligh nafi hey kaamil nahi. "Tabligh is beneficial not complete"

[Cyclicymn]

Everyone is a muballigh. The Qur'aan mentions that we are the Best of Ummah, we enjoin to good and stop evil. This is da'wah, is it not? Calling towards Islam?

Narrated Abu Huraira: (Bukhari: Volume 6, Book 60, Number 80)

The Verse:--"You (true Muslims) are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind." means, the best of peoples for the people, as you bring them with chains on their necks till they embrace Islam.

[gabbaman]

Narrated Abu Huraira: (Bukhari: Volume 6, Book 60, Number 80)

The Verse:--"You (true Muslims) are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind." means, the best of peoples for the people, as you bring them with chains on their necks till they embrace Islam.

Like I said, Tableegh can be done in many different ways.

[bensabath]

Narrated Abu Huraira: (Bukhari: Volume 6, Book 60, Number 80)

The Verse:--"You (true Muslims) are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind." means, the best of peoples for the people, as you bring them with chains on their necks till they embrace Islam.

....love this hadith.....and its in bukhari, noor ala noor.....

[Snweyuag]

I guess here the 'maqsood' is more important than the 'means' we r adopting.I've seen and known some people who go in khanqah but there's no sign of islaah seen in them.And I know also some people who go out in jamaat but don't devlop any sifaat in them and no sign of islaah in them either.

Keep the 'maqsood' in front of you and work hard to achieve it.Whether its through khanqah or work of dawat-o-tableegh,the means does not matter much specially in this part of world full of fitnah and Allahu 'alam.
Even if your intention is of da'awat then I guess its the same.Keep it your aim.Dawat is done both in work of tableegh and also by awliya-Allah who are formed through khanqahi nizam and tariqats that they adopt.There are many incidents of Sufiyaan-e-ikraam of giving dawat like that of Khawaja Moinuddin Chisti(RAH).I've heard people used to come into Islaam just by looking at his face and this was indeed achieved by years of mujahidah and zikrullah and Allahu 'Aalam.

So please keep your aim in front of You and ask Allah to guide You towards it and to achieve it rather than getting trapped in the world of confusion.Keep the heart at peace.A disturbed heart won't help either in khanqah or in work of tableegh and Allahu 'alam.

[Lenny Hensley]

You have opened a can of worms bro

I would request the brother to go in the. khurooj. The solution to all the masail of deeni & dunyawi issues lies in the effort of dawate. It is because of the effort of dawate that Allah Ta'ala had broken so many baatil and fitnah's. If this effort has so much impact on the baatil then will it not able to do our Islah? It is this that turns off most of the people who are involved in Zikr and Ilm and the Frontiers. I do not know why people think all these efforts are different. We once went on Jamat, cash thashkeel (brothers who got ready to go on Jamat immediately) was 2 bus loads. Everyone was happy, the people of the village thought we were Auliya Allah. Shaitan put that thought into the hearts of the brothers in the Jamat as well. We came back to Markaz, was speaking to an old Worker about this. He told me that if we think that our efforts made these brothers go out, we have not understood what happened. He asked me how many apples it takes to make 1 kilo. I said many. He said it takes many apples, and asked me what if the apple that went last, says "I am the one who made this reach a kilo". He said no, there are apples under him, they all add to the weight.

Likewise, effort has been done before, by different people, in different ways, our jamat just went and added the last apple to make it a kilo. Does not mean the whole weight was ours. The way I see it, this effort of Deen that we are doing didnt start yesterday or today, or from Maulana Ilyas rah or Khwaja Muinudeen Chisti rah. It started the day Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) was given Nubuwwat.

Were all doing the same thing, its no different, but in different patterns. You have like Tabligh, you are comfortable with it, thats good. Another likes Zikr, another like Ilm. This type of thinking leads the Zaakireen to think that the people in the Khanqah are most enlightened, other poor guys are running around on Ghust (visiting brothers) and sitting in Ta'leem, they havent got the taufiq to understand what the REAL effort is.

Then the Tablighis think, man, look at the change this effort has brought about, were THE people. Poor guys, sitting in a old Masjid and rolling a thasbeeh. I heard someone say this about Maulana Talha db. I felt like slamming him into the wall actually (would not have done it). Poor guy.

The the Frontier brothers, our lions, think look at these women, theyre running around on Ghust and sitting doing Zikr, theyre not REAL men. I can go on and on. So what is the REAL work and who are THE accepted people? Its a joke actually. You need to open up your eyes and see reality. Ofcourse everyones accepted. You need to move with people who have the Mizaj of our Akabir. I dont mean the responsible brothers in your Area. I mean the Elders at Markaz. Markaz is not a building with 4 walls that people go to listen bayan. Markaz is the amal inside and more important, the people inside. The Akabir.

So Tabligh isnt the only apple that made the package 1 kilo. Silent dua after Muraqaba in Tahajjud of the Sufi, dua of the Mudarris who teaches Bukhari (or Noorani Qiadah for that matter) in a remote village, dua of a brother on the Frontier when he gets hit by a bullet. These are unseen apples. Tabligh is apparent for people, Allah is using it as the last apple that makes 1 kilo. That one kilo, that mujahidah, that is needed to bring hidayat in the lives of people.

You are not alone brother. Someone correct me if im wrong. Wallahu Alam

[Lenny Hensley]

I guess here the 'maqsood' is more important than the 'means' we r adopting.I've seen and known some people who go in khanqah but there's no sign of islaah seen in them.And I know also some people who go out in jamaat but don't devlop any sifaat in them and no sign of islaah in them either.

Question is What is the Maqsood? What is the objective of all this. Khanqah/ Tabligh/ Ilm/ Frontier. Why? A person came to Haji Imdadullah Muhajir Makki rah and said 'Hazrat, make dua, I am unwell, I am worried because I cant go to the Haram and offer Salat with Jamat'. Hazrat rah made dua.

After he went, Haji Saheb rah told the gathering there, "An Arif is not worried if due to illness he cannot perform Salat with Jamat in the Haram, because the Maqsood/ Objective is the Pleasure of Allah. There are different ways of acquiring this objective. One way is to perform Salat with Jamat in the Haram Sharif. Another way is to have Sabr when afflicted with sickness. BY means of Sabr the very same objective which is obtained by performing Salat with Jamat in Haram is achieved. This is also a way of gaining Allahs pleasure. An Arif is therefore not grieved since the objective is secured"

This is why you need the Suhbat of Ahlullah, so you understand these subtle things. So all these efforts are for the objective.

[CowextetleSix]

this thread was going well untill this.....



have you got any evidence for this bold statement from the quran and hadith?

Is there any other SOLUTION?

[ugosanchezo]

Is there any other SOLUTION?

I have not received my response from brother shoaib, so i wont speak on that issue.

But on the issue of solution for "all deeni and duniyawi masail" being in dawat. That seems an exageration since the dawat structure of TJ cannot fulfil the requires of many aspects of deen. Basically such sentiments are only for encouraging people to go in jamat, not necessarily a shari stance.

eg. how does TJ effort tackle the issue of Halal cetification of Chicken in South Africa?
how does TJ effort tackle the issue of Cecular education for youth? Keeping in mind that many Ulama in the TJ work themselves have mostly only completed till grade 8 or metriculation.

and so on,

So such generalized statements are indeed good for riling up ones desire to take part in the noble work. They are not meant to be the final statement on the matter.

[suilusargaino]

The difference between Tableegh and khanqah is that Tableegh is done with the intention of correcting oneself AND calling others towards the Masaajid.

Khanqah on the other hand, is done purely to correct one's diseases.

Depending how much you're eager to get rid of your spiritual diseases, you should make your choices accordingly.

Another example is that Tableegh ( in Jama'ah ) is like taking generic medications and calling people towards the masaajid. Khanqah is like a hospital where you admit yourself and let the doctors do their work.

For some people, taking medications is helpful. Those who think they're really sick and need to be "operated", should go to khanqah. I can't find a good khanqah in "chicken-biryani", so I go out with the jama'ah for some time. I know personally that i have some really bad diseases, and I should get them treated before they become a cancer for my akhirah, but until then, I'm taking these herbal medications called "Tableeghi Jama'ah".

Khanqah time actually makes you a walking tableeghi. Meaning , people get eager to learn deen just by looking at you, depending how sincere you are during the time in khanqah. If you can, go to Hardo in india, and spend time.

If this sounds useful, make dua for me and my family.

[Grorointeri]

You have opened a can of worms bro



It is this that turns off most of the people who are involved in Zikr and Ilm and the Frontiers. I do not know why people think all these efforts are different. We once went on Jamat, cash thashkeel (brothers who got ready to go on Jamat immediately) was 2 bus loads. Everyone was happy, the people of the village thought we were Auliya Allah. Shaitan put that thought into the hearts of the brothers in the Jamat as well. We came back to Markaz, was speaking to an old Worker about this. He told me that if we think that our efforts made these brothers go out, we have not understood what happened. He asked me how many apples it takes to make 1 kilo. I said many. He said it takes many apples, and asked me what if the apple that went last, says "I am the one who made this reach a kilo". He said no, there are apples under him, they all add to the weight.

Likewise, effort has been done before, by different people, in different ways, our jamat just went and added the last apple to make it a kilo. Does not mean the whole weight was ours. The way I see it, this effort of Deen that we are doing didnt start yesterday or today, or from Maulana Ilyas rah or Khwaja Muinudeen Chisti rah. It started the day Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) was given Nubuwwat.

Were all doing the same thing, its no different, but in different patterns. You have like Tabligh, you are comfortable with it, thats good. Another likes Zikr, another like Ilm. This type of thinking leads the Zaakireen to think that the people in the Khanqah are most enlightened, other poor guys are running around on Ghust (visiting brothers) and sitting in Ta'leem, they havent got the taufiq to understand what the REAL effort is.

Then the Tablighis think, man, look at the change this effort has brought about, were THE people. Poor guys, sitting in a old Masjid and rolling a thasbeeh. I heard someone say this about Maulana Talha db. I felt like slamming him into the wall actually (would not have done it). Poor guy.

The the Frontier brothers, our lions, think look at these women, theyre running around on Ghust and sitting doing Zikr, theyre not REAL men. I can go on and on. So what is the REAL work and who are THE accepted people? Its a joke actually. You need to open up your eyes and see reality. Ofcourse everyones accepted. You need to move with people who have the Mizaj of our Akabir. I dont mean the responsible brothers in your Area. I mean the Elders at Markaz. Markaz is not a building with 4 walls that people go to listen bayan. Markaz is the amal inside and more important, the people inside. The Akabir.

So Tabligh isnt the only apple that made the package 1 kilo. Silent dua after Muraqaba in Tahajjud of the Sufi, dua of the Mudarris who teaches Bukhari (or Noorani Qiadah for that matter) in a remote village, dua of a brother on the Frontier when he gets hit by a bullet. These are unseen apples. Tabligh is apparent for people, Allah is using it as the last apple that makes 1 kilo. That one kilo, that mujahidah, that is needed to bring hidayat in the lives of people.

You are not alone brother. Someone correct me if im wrong. Wallahu Alam

Assalaamu 'alaykum,

Very nice post, may Allah reward you and increase you in 'ilm.