[offemyJuccete]

Asslamualikum

I agree with sheikh Fusoos on madrasa graduates and their idea/understanding on tasawuf.
One mufti told his alimah wife, you don't need a sheikh, I'm your sheikh: )
I was baffeled, where is a mufti (mastered fiqh) and where is a murshid? (mastered the self/taswuf).
Does mastering 1 science of many many sciences of Islam mean you've mastered all?

In my opinion its more important for graduates to have tarbiyah over laymen, as pride/kibr grows with ones knowledge of deen (fiqh) if one isn't getting tarbiyah.
Thats why sometimes it is counted as a karamah of murshids of the past that they got a faqih to complete his tarbiyah with a kamil sheikh.

Most of us assume ilm = taqwa, it should, so I believe, but thats not always the case.
Thats what confuses many laymen and upsets many too.
I once had to explain this to a friend who was distrught by the behaviour of someone with knowledge.

It is very easy to see wrong and think 'how bad!' Instead we should seek forgivness and see the bad as a lesson for us, ibrah to learn from.
we should pray for ourselves and for everyone else inshalah, as we don't know when/if the tables will turn.


And Allah knows best.
May He free us all of bad akhlaq and ego.

[Blaxastij]

One mufti told his alimah wife, you don't need a sheikh, I'm your sheikh: )

I sort of get the feeling that the Mufti was telling his wife something through humor; Listen to me because I'm your husband.

And Allah knows best.
May He free us all of bad akhlaq and ego.

Ameen

[gabbaman]

I sort of get the feeling that the Mufti was telling his wife something through humor; Listen to me because I'm your husband.



Ameen

Yeah, lots of times you hear husband's joke and and say 'I don't need a shaykh; my wife does my islaah'.

[TorryJens]

I have just been reading through this thread and wondering what does tarbiyyah entail in this context? To me, zeal for knowledge is important in the spouse but that doesn't necessarily mean he has to be an 'alim. I also feel it is really important for them to be on the path with a righteous shaykh as I have heard of sisters who have got married to brothers who don't see the point of tasawwuf- this is sometimes visible in their character. I don't know how I would be assured that somebody was pious if they kept on saying I don't need to be on the path, I have nothing to improve. It's very true what some of us are saying here, being an 'alimah does not necessarily mean piety, I teach in a Maktab where teenage girls are given the basics of their deen. I know for sure some of them are forced into coming, some of them secretly bring headphones and listen to music! If anything, their kind of suhbah is very important, as is one's taqwa, one's talab in both religious improvement and seeking knowledge and one's beautiful akhlaaq. Nonetheless, probably it is better that the two are on the same page...And Allah knows best.

[Blaxastij]

Yeah, lots of times you hear husband's joke and and say 'I don't need a shaykh; my wife does my islaah'.

That's true. So long as there's the mentality that islah needs to be made, when ever you have a person dealing with others, some form of his/her islah can be done.

I think most husbands will agree that their wives are their unofficial Shaikhs and vice versa.

[gabbaman]

with regards to masa'il, then a husband should should not be taking masa'il from his wife.

Ok for the top.

As for the quoted, I still don't get it. Why should a husband not take masa'il from his wife?

[gabbaman]

Hm, I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree here.

[Blaxastij]

Imam al-Ghazali and the signs of the ‘Ulama.

http://www.deoband.org/2010/11/gener...-of-the-ulama/

I do share Fusus's opinions on the matter to some extent, due to my personal experiences. But, I can never say or think conclusively all 'Alimaats are like that. I have heard from Ulama that marrying someone with like-mindedness is something that's desirable. And doing desirable things go a loooong way in marriage. So I'm definitely for that. Then again, Allah made women have great effect on others (especially men), whether she's an Alimah or not, the effects can be tremendous or catastrophic.

I don't know if it's a saying of Ulama or otherwise but I remember reading a book a long time ago on the virtues of women that one pious woman has greater effect then 70 pious men.
I mean, whenever I see my mother doing some tasbeeh after fajr, I get so much zeal it's as if I can build a whole masjid with my bare hands. It's not magnified to that extent whenever I see men from amongst the 'awaam perform good deeds.

[bensabath]

...this thread interests me although it got derailed in the middle......A member of SF met me back in february, and he said that one of his marriage prospects was an alimah, he was hesitant as he had heard from many people that if a non alim marries an alimah, the alimah tends to be assertive, is it true?...I plan on marrying an alimah whenever I get married ( have my own reasons), as for the masail issue, every man should have a teacher in fiqh, we are all agreed on that, so every man should have a mufti to ask masail before and after marriage...

[gabbaman]

@ br ENIGMA- my post I wrote above I deleted as I wrote it whilst upset. Hence I deleted it.

However I still reiterate that my view is not clouded, and as you speak of what you have seen, so to do I speak of what I have seen.

[Blaxastij]

that does not only mean islamic. you can have a alimah who is still steeped in the material things and vice versa.

like i said, the main thing is that the women has some piety and the same type of mindset. if a person is islamic on the exterior yet inside is not, in terms of wanting a islamic lifestyle,simplicity,sunnah etc, then the couple will have issues. this is where tarbiyyah comes in.

having a beard/thawb, or niqab does not equate piety. people adopt such things for many reasons.

if i told you what young alimahs(especially those from part time alimah courses) are demanding from prospective husbands then you would be shocked. Even a local scholar involved in such institutes is worried about the situation. he himself said that ilm is being learnt, but tarbiyyah is not being done. he said girls are coming out from darul uloom with more dunya in their hearts than their non darul uloom going conterparts.

some is down to the environment,some is down to the parents.

my wifes knows plenty of women who,although not being 'alimahs', these women have a tremendous taqwa,piety and a far better understanding of deen than lots of alimahs.

So the conclusion to all these finer details would be to marry someone (whether 'Alimah or not) who has the same mentality as you with regards to Deen and other aspects as well.

[bensabath]

depends on both the man and the woman.

marrying a alimah should get the husband more clued up in terms of knowledge. but if the man continually keeps on asking the wife,then i can see how she should could become assertive over time.

asking your wife about masail is not wrong.

lets just say, you are bayt to a shaykh. now your wife, who is a alimah is not,and unknown to you, she does not agree with the concept. now, if you rely on her for your masail, i'll guess that you will leave the shaykh over time.

...

[Mmccqrtb]

I would say that my view is more the norm.

by the way, your situation is different as you are married to a scholar. my post was more about a non alim taking msa'il from his alimah wife. your husband can still counter you or tell you that you are incorrect in xyz. a non alim will not able to do that and will take his wifes opinion/ruling to be the truth.

why is that dangerous? its suggesting that Aalimahs don't have much knowledge on deen? or that their knowledge should not be trusted

or that women should only teach other women? did the scholars of the past not have many female teachers?

in a sense it also seems that men will refuse to take knowledge from their wifes because they think it is beneath them to ask a lady for knowledge and thus would seem that in fact the man is the arrogant one

[Mmccqrtb]

im not posting examples.

asking for knowledge is one thing, being dependant on her knowledge is another.

the norm will not change even though certain exceptional examples are available.

if you think a alimah by doing a part time course(2 hours a day,3 year course) is any where near a alimah?

like i said, women alimahs even in full time institutes do not get taught at the level in which get taught at the full time institutes for men. thus the results will be different.

hmm i kind of get what you are saying, i have come across aalimahs who sometimes don't know rulings for certain things which has surprised me, is there a reason why they do not study in-depth even though some of the courses are full-time 5years same as the aalim courses?

This thread looks bad because it suggests to people that there are really no advantages of marrying an Aalimah.
If you are an Aalim you will have more knowledge than her anyway so you won't benefit from her knowledge.
And if you are a non-aalim then you still cant benefit from her knowledge because she might become arrogant so you shouldn't ask her about masail

[EbrsaRynleot]

If you want to marry, marry a girl who mastered chastity, taqwa, haya' and tawadhu. These are the best ever ingredients found only in an ideal wife candidate. If she has these qualities, it wouldn't matter if she graduated from Darul Ulum or Harvard; otherwise she would be no more than a headache.

yes! very intellectual and very pious thinking.

[ugosanchezo]

hmm i kind of get what you are saying, i have come across aalimahs who sometimes don't know rulings for certain things which has surprised me, is there a reason why they do not study in-depth even though some of the courses are full-time 5years same as the aalim courses?

This thread looks bad because it suggests to people that there are really no advantages of marrying an Aalimah.
If you are an Aalim you will have more knowledge than her anyway so you won't benefit from her knowledge.
And if you are a non-aalim then you still cant benefit from her knowledge because she might become arrogant so you shouldn't ask her about masail

Would ALL the students who have a B.Admin or BA or BBA know majority of the things taught in the respective selected subjects? Lets take one such course, Advance Accounting normally taught in the 3rd or 4th year of the University course.

The answer to that is exactly the answer here as well. Many Alims and Alimah's study through the courses. It does not mean they have mastered these subjects. Analyze your own field of expertise. If you are lets say a Math Teacher, you must have finished your matriculation or something. Then can I ask you a question relating to some other subject within the spectrum of Matriculation and expect a thorough answer?

I have passed through the Alim course as well, yet I shudder to sit and teach some one Tajweed course. That is a field I need to study very hard. Now if somoene questions me on Tajweed, do you expect me to make up an answer to save my face? or to simply say I dont know you rather ask some other competent Alim of the field.

I find it very disturbing to see that in one shot we discredit all the Alimahs, who also have spent time to learn whatever deen they have learnt. The same Alima is comfortably trusted to teach ones own child the adaabs and maktab, but we dare not let them feel any happy if they have to answer their husband's question. Need I remind that Nabi not only took mashwarah from his wife, but acted upon it as well. It is our own lack of understanding that we feel that asking something from the wife may instill pride in the wife.

What happened to all those debates of woman's right etc. Those abilities and rights also empower these women to have the ability to be in a place to answer you (husbands) and guide you in different issues of deen and duniya.

As far as indepth masa'il are concerned, then what is a layman non alim going about asking indepth questions in the first place! A proper layman's majority of worries are with regards to basic issues of taharah, salah etc. which are dealt in Bahishti Zewar, taught in EVERY Alima course. Anything beyond that, in case someone is faced with some intricate issue, then that is something even Alims have to rummage pages about before answering. Although, in those condition you would be seeking muftis and not just Alims.

Please do not take the post in a negative tone, I just am baffled that an Alimah's qabiliyat [ability] is being questioned merely because she is a woman and a wife.

[exiceJetLip]

It appears as though a couple of you have had experiences with aalimahs that are not entirely positive.

As we seem to be making generalisations based on personal experiences, let me also add my tuppence. I have many aalimah friends who are married to non alims. They get on fine for the most part-normal marital ups and downs come with every marriage. I have more friends who are married to aalims and on a whole, they seem happier. Their husbands understand better the rights of a woman, the importance of family and tarbiyah and they support their wives when they make decisions to spend time teaching and propagating Islam. There is more compatibility and shared goals and this makes life easier for the wife as she is always tabe' of her husband. I certainly believe I could not do what I do, if I was not married to an aalim. He creates work for me and pushes me towards opportunities to do more for deen and I do what I can to facilitate his devotion to deen and dawah. As a family we hope that our lives are waqf for the khidmah of deen. I certainly don't think I could have done that if I was not married to an aalim.

doing the alim/alimah course may get one onto the basics.

This made me smile. So who's done more than the basics then? The SFers who quote long passages of Arabic text on where Allah exists? Whilst I agree that the aalimah course has been watered down over the years to accomadate other social factors, I think many of us do not know what an aalim course entails. Yes, the end of an aalim course is the beginning of a new journey of learning, but believe me its more than the basics. Its a solid foundation plus some.

Finally, the 15 or so doctors at our local practice all look up dosages, side effects, symptoms etc in handbooks when we go to visit them. Often we are referrred to specialists. Does this mean they don't know their trade?

*tarbiyyah = Islamic upbrinbing and training, tabe’ = follower, khidmah = service

[ugosanchezo]

taking mashwera from ones spouse is a must if one is to have a wholesome marriage. yet doing mashwera and asking a ruling are two very different things. teaching a child in maktab and answering a question on fiqh are two different things.

again, my stance on the whole not asking your wife has been misunderstood.......

anyway,ive said what ive said and inshallah will bow out of this thread.

No brother, please continue ahead.

teaching maktab (Alif, Baa, and then Alif Baa Shadda Alif = Abba ) according some ulama is even better than teaching fiqh.

The reliance that one would afford his quran teacher to teach the word of Allah, is no different than asking a knowledgable about mas'ala of Allah's deen.

The whole idea is that a wife, not matter if she did 5 year alima course of 4 years, is still better than 0 years. We can either afford the wife that higher status, or choose not to.

And brother enigma, just because someone doesnt agree with you doesnt mean that are not understanding you. If that were the case then I must cry the most since none of you all guys ever understand what i have to say

[TubOppomo]

Assalamu alaikum,

If a wife knows the ruling of fiqh and the husband does not, what shame is there in him asking her? I'm more knowledgeable in some areas than my husband, and he is more knowledgeable in other areas than me. Our knowledges compliment one another and make the sum of our marriage greater than it's 2 parts.

[Siliespiriulk]

umhasan,can the personal remarks relating to me in your post be removed please. My posts do not reflect my personal situation just in case people are wondering

i have deleted my posts due to being rebuked just now by a very dear friend of mine,who told me to take down my posts on this thread. Not,its not my wife by the way LOL

Thats it from me on this thread.

enjoy!!