[Theariwinna]

My dear Brother Stefane, Assalaamoalaikum

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English Yusuf Ali: [10:45]One day He will gather them together: [B](It will be) as if they had tarried but an hour of a day[/B]: they will recognise each other: assuredly those will be lost who denied the meeting with Allah and refused to receive true guidance.

When we try to understand the meaning of a verse, we should not take the verse out of context and look for its meaning. The verse you have quoted above, follows a few other verses where, inter alia, Allah(SWT) is telling the Holy Messenger(SAW) that he cannot guide the deaf and the blind (figurative sense of course). After this, he reveals the verse you have quoted.

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One day He will gather them together

No doubt, this is the Day of Judgment, when ALL will be gathered together.

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(It will be) as if they had tarried but an hour of a day

Tarried but an hour of a day - Tarried where? In the grave? NO. Allah(SWT) is here referring to the time spent by man in this world - albeit including the time spent in the grave. This hour of which Allah(SWT) is speaking, is not our hour. It is an hour in Allah's(SWT) world - the astral world where one day is equivalent to 50,000 of our years (Holy Qur'an). So, when Allah(SWT) Says "one hour", He is referring to His Time Scale. So, your obseravtion / question regarding punishment in the grave of duration one hour is WRONG.

Let us now go back to your post at #15, and to this verse that you quoted:

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English Yusuf Ali: [25:47]And He it is Who makes the Night as a Robe for you, and Sleep as Repose, and makes the Day (as it were) a Resurrection.

Here Allah(SWT) is referring to the night in this world of ours, night during which we sleep and take rest. Although we are sleeping, it is as if we are dead, and when we wake up in the morning when it is daylight, it is as if we have been ressurrected. Please note that when we sleep, the soul may leave the body but it is still attached to it, whereas when we die the soul is no longer attached to the body.
This verse has no direct relevance to our discussion regarding "Punishment in the graves". In fact, I would qualify it as being IRRELEVANT.

My dear Brother Stefane, I hope, Insh'Allah, that the above explanations will be of help. Please do also refer to the various quotations in the post of our brother fahid - in particular, that in which mention is made of more than one punishment - the last being the one to be inflicted on the Last Day. - that would be the ULTIMATE one.

Brotherly yours
farook

Assalam aleykoum brother,


Sorry but you get it wrong, why are talking about the time comparation and one hour of the day, I can not get you. ?



Let study once again the VERSE 45 of the Suraha 10.


Surah 10


45. One day He will gather them together: (It will be) as if they had tarried but an hour of a day: they will recognise each other: assuredly those will be lost who denied the meeting with Allah and refused to receive true guidance.


Its about you and me and all human, where did Allah SWT is talking about 50 000 years ?

At the day of the resurection people they say for them its like they have been stayed in the grave only one hour, why are you inventing things brother ?

Can you tell me what is the AIM of a grave punishment of one hour ?


Becarefull brother do not lie about Allah SWT, do not say things that Allah SWT did not send any proff about it.

The grave punishment its an invention spread after the death of the prophete Mohamed SWS.



Assalam aleykoum.

[Theariwinna]

My dear Brother Stefane, Assalaamoalaikum

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English Yusuf Ali: [10:45]One day He will gather them together: [B](It will be) as if they had tarried but an hour of a day[/B]: they will recognise each other: assuredly those will be lost who denied the meeting with Allah and refused to receive true guidance.

When we try to understand the meaning of a verse, we should not take the verse out of context and look for its meaning. The verse you have quoted above, follows a few other verses where, inter alia, Allah(SWT) is telling the Holy Messenger(SAW) that he cannot guide the deaf and the blind (figurative sense of course). After this, he reveals the verse you have quoted.

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One day He will gather them together

No doubt, this is the Day of Judgment, when ALL will be gathered together.

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(It will be) as if they had tarried but an hour of a day

Tarried but an hour of a day - Tarried where? In the grave? NO. Allah(SWT) is here referring to the time spent by man in this world - albeit including the time spent in the grave. This hour of which Allah(SWT) is speaking, is not our hour. It is an hour in Allah's(SWT) world - the astral world where one day is equivalent to 50,000 of our years (Holy Qur'an). So, when Allah(SWT) Says "one hour", He is referring to His Time Scale. So, your obseravtion / question regarding punishment in the grave of duration one hour is WRONG.

Let us now go back to your post at #15, and to this verse that you quoted:

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English Yusuf Ali: [25:47]And He it is Who makes the Night as a Robe for you, and Sleep as Repose, and makes the Day (as it were) a Resurrection.

Here Allah(SWT) is referring to the night in this world of ours, night during which we sleep and take rest. Although we are sleeping, it is as if we are dead, and when we wake up in the morning when it is daylight, it is as if we have been ressurrected. Please note that when we sleep, the soul may leave the body but it is still attached to it, whereas when we die the soul is no longer attached to the body.
This verse has no direct relevance to our discussion regarding "Punishment in the graves". In fact, I would qualify it as being IRRELEVANT.

My dear Brother Stefane, I hope, Insh'Allah, that the above explanations will be of help. Please do also refer to the various quotations in the post of our brother fahid - in particular, that in which mention is made of more than one punishment - the last being the one to be inflicted on the Last Day. - that would be the ULTIMATE one.

Brotherly yours
farook

Brother Farook,


Can you give me the relation between the verse you were talking about it 70-4 and the verse I brought 10-45.


You said this verse bellow, what is the relation with the time spent in the grave ?


Surah 70


4. The angels and the spirit ascend unto him in a Day the measure whereof is (as) fifty thousand years:


Surah 10


45. One day He will gather them together: (It will be) as if they had tarried but an hour of a day: they will recognise each other: assuredly those will be lost who denied the meeting with Allah and refused to receive true guidance.


I will appreciate if you explain me how did you linked the two verses bellow ?

Do you know the Quran and the religion of Allah SWt is not a game.



Assalam aleykoum brother.

[Abaanto]

Assalam o 'alaykum,

'Allamah 'Abd al-Hayy Lakhnawi (may Allah have mercy on him) writes in Al-Athar al-Marfu'ah,

الآثار المرفوعة ج:1 ص:45
ومنها ما يذكرونه عند ذكر السماع المحمدي إنه يسمع صلاة من يصلي عليه وإن كان نائيا من قبره بلا واسطة وهذا باطل لم يثبت برواية بل الثابت خلافه فقد قال النبي من صلي علي عند قبري سمعته ومن صلى علي نائيا أي بعيدا وكل الله بها ملكا يبلغني وكفى أمر دنياه وآخرته وكنت له شفيعا وشهيدا يوم القيامة أخرجه البيهقي في شعب الإيمان وأبو الشيخ في كتاب الثواب والعقيلي في كتاب الضعفاء وله شواهد بسط الكلام فيها السيوطي في اللآلئ المصنوعة وابن عراق في تنزيه الشريعة
“One of them [fabrications] is what they mention while narrating the prophetic hearing that he hears salutation of one who sends blessings to him without any mediation though the person is far away. This is untrue not supported by any tradition, rather the otherwise is proved. The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said: 'One who sends blessings to me near my grave I hear it, and one who sends blessings to me from far away place, Allah appoints angel who conveys it me, it will suffice him for his world and hereafter, I will intercede him on the Day of Judgment'. Narrated by al-Bayhaqi in Shu’b al-Iman, Abu al-Shaykh in Kitab al-Thawab and al-Uqayli in Kitab al-Zu’afa. This hadith was narrated by many other sources as well; it was more elaborated by al-Suyuti in al-La’ali al-Masnu’ah and Ibn Iraq in Tanzih al-Shar’iah.”

One such fabricated narration is found in Dala'il al-Khayrat, Anis al-Jalis, and Jala’ al-Ifham, etc.

Salam,

this is the best answer so far.

[Theariwinna]

Assalam aleykoum brother,


Where did you see in the quran and explain me how a dead body can hear others ?

Here its about the prophete SWS who can hear, I do not beleive that even if its true, its only him not all human ????




Assalam aleykoum brother.

[Abaanto]

Assalam aleykoum brother,


Where did you see in the quran and explain me how a dead body can hear others ?

Here its about the prophete SWS who can hear, I do not beleive that even if its true, its only him not all human ????




Assalam aleykoum brother.

Salam,

are you Salafi by any chance?

[Theariwinna]

I am a muslim, see the definition of muslim.

I am not part of any group you made, why do you want me to be part of any group.

I follow only Allah SWT = EQUAl TAWHID, nothing else I am scared to be burn in hell.

I do not want to say any lies about Allah SWT and spread lies bout our prophete Mohamed SWS.



I ask Allah SWT to forgive us and to guide us you and all our families, ameen.

[Abaanto]

I am a muslim, see the definition of muslim.

I am not part of any group you made, why do you want me to be part of any group.

I follow only Allah SWT = EQUAl TAWHID, nothing else I am scared to be burn in hell.

I do not want to say any lies about Allah SWT and spread lies bout our prophete Mohamed SWS.



I ask Allah SWT to forgive us and to guide us you and all our families, ameen.

Salam,

Good because the Salafi position I think is that the dead do hear...

[Theariwinna]

I repeat only what the prophete mohamed SWS used to say :

Surah 6


14. Say: "Shall I take for my protector any other than Allah, the Maker of the heavens and the earth? And He it is that feedeth but is not fed." Say: "Nay! but I am commanded to be the first of those who bow to Allah (in Islam), and be not thou of the company of those who join gods with Allah."

15. Say: "I would, if I disobeyed my Lord, indeed have fear of the penalty of a Mighty Day.

[rhybrisee]

Salam,

are you Salafi by any chance?

He doesn't even accept ahadith.

[Abaanto]

I repeat only what the prophete mohamed SWS used to say :

Surah 6


14. Say: "Shall I take for my protector any other than Allah, the Maker of the heavens and the earth? And He it is that feedeth but is not fed." Say: "Nay! but I am commanded to be the first of those who bow to Allah (in Islam), and be not thou of the company of those who join gods with Allah."

15. Say: "I would, if I disobeyed my Lord, indeed have fear of the penalty of a Mighty Day.

What's your strongest proof that those who died cannot hear?

[Theariwinna]

He doesn't even accept ahadith.

Assalam aleykoum brother Abu Zakariya Yahya


Surah 77


49. Ah woe, that Day, to the Rejecters of Truth!

50. Then what ( HADEETEN IN ARBIC ), after that, will they believe in ?



Then Allah SWT does not accept any other hadeeth after the Quran, read it in arabic the verse 50 surah 77

[Theariwinna]

What's your strongest proof that those who died cannot hear?

Brother TripolySunni,


Why you do not give me , you the proof in the Quran that dead can hear us ?

-1) the body is turning to dust ok ?

2) the Soul is in the barzak

3) there is like a border betwwen the dead people and the alives



4) If ou say that the dead can hear then they are alive ?

5) If they can hear us they are like Allah SWT rhey hear everything ?



I ask Allah SWT to guide us and to forgive us, Ameen.

[Abaanto]

Assalam aleykoum brother Abu Zakariya Yahya


Surah 77


49. Ah woe, that Day, to the Rejecters of Truth!

50. Then what ( HADEETEN IN ARBIC ), after that, will they believe in ?



Then Allah SWT does not accept any other hadeeth after the Quran, read it in arabic the verse 50 surah 77

the word Hadith does not mean the Prophetic hadiths and the advice of the Prophet PBUH and his instructions on how to pray and how to make ablution, it means what other Talk will they believe if they didn't believe the words of Allah.

No Arab understands the word hadith as in the narrations of the prophet PBUH... I think some non-arab tricked you stephane... easily.

[Theariwinna]

What's your strongest proof that those who died cannot hear?

Brother TripolySunni,


I will ask you a simple question, I hope you have read many times the quran ?

My question is :

1) What is for you the difference between the dead and alive person ?

[Theariwinna]

the word Hadith does not mean the Prophetic hadiths and the advice of the Prophet PBUH and his instructions on how to pray and how to make ablution, it means what other Talk will they believe if they didn't believe the words of Allah.

No Arab understands the word hadith as in the narrations of the prophet PBUH... I think some non-arab tricked you stephane... easily.

Please do not talk about Hadeeth here.


Assalam aleykoum.

[Abaanto]

Brother TripolySunni,


Why you do not give me , you the proof in the Quran that dead can hear us ?

-1) the body is turning to dust ok ?

2) the Soul is in the barzak

3) there is like a border betwwen the dead people and the alives



4) If ou say that the dead can hear then they are alive ?

5) If they can hear us they are like Allah SWT rhey hear everything ?



I ask Allah SWT to guide us and to forgive us, Ameen.

I say there are several opinions, Some say they hear, some say They hear but it does not benefit them so it's like they never heard, some say they don't hear at all... only at the beginning they hear the footsteps of those who are burying them and then they are faced with the angels and are asked in the grave about what they did (This is the torture part) and then they never hear anymore.

I've personally not taken an opinion yet as I never researched this myself, But I was asking you what your proof is for them Not hearing... just out of curiosity.

[Abaanto]

Please do not talk about Hadeeth here.


Assalam aleykoum.

As a western or New convert Muslim, Would you believe me if I told you that the state of the Ummah today is in a very bad shape? This is a Yes and No question please tell me I need to know what you think of us.

[Theariwinna]

I say there are several opinions, Some say they hear, some say They hear but it does not benefit them so it's like they never heard, some say they don't hear at all... only at the beginning they hear the footsteps of those who are burying them and then they are faced with the angels and are asked in the grave about what they did (This is the torture part) and then they never hear anymore.

I've personally not taken an opinion yet as I never researched this myself, But I was asking you what your proof is for them Not hearing... just out of curiosity.

Brother TripolySunni,


I do not want to lie to you I have to make a research about it to find them.

We have to open a new thread inshallah about the grave punishment, I will give you proof inshallah its an invention after the death of our prophete Mohamed SWS.


See you brother and Ask Allah SWS to guide us and to forgive us and ask him to teach us the truth, ameen.


Assalam aleykoum sisters and brothers.

[Theariwinna]

As a western or New convert Muslim, Would you believe me if I told you that the state of the Ummah today is in a very bad shape? This is a Yes and No question please tell me I need to know what you think of us.

I can swear but I will not do it that the UMMA is very far away from the truth.

Look all the muslims world is living in stone age, how can Allah SWt can help them.

24 hours a day they spread lies about Allah SWt and the prophetes SWS.

They are in darkness, they are blind, they do not control the scholars, the hadeeths.

All muslim they accept everything blindly, how a blind personn can guide others blind ?

They are like sheep and they say we are well guided, how they ca say they are in the right path before to be judge ?

Even me I cry everyday of my life and I say to Allah SWT if all what we have been doing is totally wrong ?

If Allah SWT do not guide us ? who can guide us ?

1) My father ?

2) an Human ?

3) A scholar ?



I have to go brother, even me I do not know if I am going to hell or not, but I always looking for the truth, I can not play my eternity in all what I hear or I read.

I control everything with the light of the Quran = Allah SWT.


Assalam aleykoum, I ask Allah SWT to guide us and to forgive us, Ameen.

[Abaanto]

hmmm... i see