[Mymnnarry]

As salaam alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa baraktuhu

, but due to some reasons he didnt go in jamat coz of zikr jehri and TJ brothers thought we r stopping the guy from going in jamaat . so they asked us to stop all this Zikr Jehri stuff

Tell those tj brothers that we weren't stopped him from going, it had his own reasons(allahualam)

:Hamarey tableeghi bhai kabhi kabhi fatwey de dete so take a chill pill, apno ke baathon ka bura nahi maantey

[rozneesitcn]

Assalamu alaykum

When a TJ activist joins a Madarsah part time or full time , he great accelerates in acquiring knowledge of Fiqah. Very rare case one can join a part time madrasah.
When a TJ activist joins a Sufi order with proper sincerity , he great accelerates in acquiring
Qurb-e-Elahi ( Divine proximity ) in the spiritual world. Why is that in TJ acceleration is not possible for acquiring qurb-e-elahi and why should he join a sufi order.
Let me quote "tableeg mein sulook ki manzilein jaldi jaldi taye karenge, jo doosroen keliye manzil-e-aakhir hogi wo tableeg mein manzil-e-raah hogi."

[Mymnnarry]

Assalamu alaykum



Very rare case one can join a part time madrasah.



"

like me alhumdulillah

[Nubtoubrem]

Why is that in TJ acceleration is not possible for acquiring qurb-e-elahi and why should he join a sufi order.

The syllabus of TJ was not made to include the vast sciene of Tazkiya ( spiritual purification ) developed over many centuries by many great sufi shaykhs . So, fundamentally one should not expect too much from TJ.

Now if you do not understand the science of Tazkiya , then you need to read some basic books written by the author of Fazael-e-Amal , Hazrat Zakariya (RAH). Such books are now available online.

--------------------
MASHA'IKH-E-CHISHT by Shaykh Muhammed Zakariya RA

http://books.themajlis.net/node/449

Shariah & Tariqat by Shaykh Muhammed Zakariya RA

http://www.sufizikr.org/wp-content/u...t__Tariqat.pdf


Irshadul Mulook --Awesome. Translated by the sufi master of Mawlana ILYAS (RAH) who is the founder of TJ.

http://www.muftisays.com/shop/produc...-%28pb%29.html
-----------------

Hopefully after reading the above books you will realize how much TJ can offer to you.

[Nubtoubrem]

Let me quote "tableeg mein sulook ki manzilein jaldi jaldi taye karenge, jo doosroen keliye manzil-e-aakhir hogi wo tableeg mein manzil-e-raah hogi."

Who has made this remark " tableeg .......... hogi " ? In which context ? Is there any reference for this comment in any book ?

However, it seems to me that this comment is in conflict with the comments made by TJ founder , Hazrat ILYAS ( RAH) as shown below.

http://www.banglakitab.com/EnglishLi...anaIlyasRA.pdf

--------------------------------------
saying 134 in chapter 8 , page 74-75

In this invitation of Deen. it should be made plainly clear to people that
the ob.ject of jamaats going out is not just to convey to others and
explain to others but it is also for our own reformation. education and
training. Therefore. during the period when being out in jamaat, one
must take extra care in being busy with ilm and zikr. Without emphasis
on ilm and zikr., coming out in the path is of no avail. It must also be
remembered that with regard to ilm and zikr it must be in association
with our elders and under their care and supervision. 'I'he ilm and zikr
ofthe Atnbiya (Altrihinitrs sulucrrn) was under the supervision of Allah.

The ilm and zikr of the sahaba (RA) was under the total care of Nabi (SAW). Likewise, in every age people acquired ilm and zikr from their elders and perfected it under their supervision and guidance. Likewise again. we are in need of our elders,otherwise there is the fear of getting ensnared in the web of shaytaan.
---------

As you see , Mawlana ILYAS ( RAH) has indicated sufi shaykhs by the word " elders ". Because , after the age of the Sahaba (RAD) ,it is the sufi saints who developed the amazing science of zikr based on their insight ( as well as divine inspiration ) about the Quran and Hadith.

[rozneesitcn]

Assalamu alaykum

Who has made this remark " tableeg .......... hogi " ? In which context ? This I have heard from one among our elders, I don't know his name.

It must also be
remembered that with regard to ilm and zikr it must be in association
with our elders and under their care and supervision. We are working under the supervision of elders who have understood the intentions of Moulana Ilyas RA

The syllabus of TJ was not made to include the vast sciene of Tazkiya ( spiritual purification ) developed over many centuries by many great sufi shaykhs . So, fundamentally one should not expect too much from TJ. But my practical experience of decades indicate otherwise. Alhamdulillah saathhees with their qurbanees have reached the pinnacles of sulooks. (TJ cannot be understood from books, it is understood by qurbanees)

Hopefully after reading the above books you will realize how much TJ can offer to you. TJ is understood well by getting practically involved in it.

[InvertPrete]

The syllabus of TJ was not made to include the vast sciene of Tazkiya ( spiritual purification ) developed over many centuries by many great sufi shaykhs .

As you know there are a lot of level of spiritual purification. So yes, TJ syllabus doesnt include thing which will help you to reach "anal haq" stage, but there are some level of spiritual purification is present in the tartib of TJ.

[Nubtoubrem]

Assalamu alaykum

This I have heard from one among our elders, I don't know his name.

This is an open forum and any body can come and say that I have decades of expereince in TJ and I heard this from one elder in that or this markaz. So your provided quotation has no value of trust or authenticity .

[BartRonalds]

The syllabus of TJ was not made to include the vast sciene of Tazkiya ( spiritual purification ) developed over many centuries by many great sufi shaykhs . So, fundamentally one should not expect too much from TJ.

Now if you do not understand the science of Tazkiya , then you need to read some basic books written by the author of Fazael-e-Amal , Hazrat Zakariya (RAH). Such books are now available online.

--------------------
MASHA'IKH-E-CHISHT by Shaykh Muhammed Zakariya RA

http://books.themajlis.net/node/449

Shariah & Tariqat by Shaykh Muhammed Zakariya RA

http://www.sufizikr.org/wp-content/u...t__Tariqat.pdf


Irshadul Mulook --Awesome. Translated by the sufi master of Mawlana ILYAS (RAH) who is the founder of TJ.

http://www.muftisays.com/shop/produc...-%28pb%29.html
-----------------

Hopefully after reading the above books you will realize how much TJ can offer to you.

I have read all 3 alhamdulliah about 10 years ago.
Been in the company of many scholars and sheikhs attempting to understand the order needed to achieve proximity and believe that it is possible to achieve tazkiyah of the soul just via the avenue of tabligh if executed correctly.
This is not a fool hearty remark, my journey goes all the way to India, Pakistan and in the company of sheikhs from arab backgrounds also.
You comment leads me to assess that you have not understood the capabilities of tabligh or yourself are not engaged in the effort to the extent that you have understood the possibilities.
I suggest you study Hayatus Sahabah with a scholar who has spent one year in Jamaat and has a strong connection with NizamUddin ulema preferably the Shura there as a start...

[BartRonalds]

Who has made this remark " tableeg .......... hogi " ? In which context ? Is there any reference for this comment in any book ?

However, it seems to me that this comment is in conflict with the comments made by TJ founder , Hazrat ILYAS ( RAH) as shown below.

http://www.banglakitab.com/EnglishLi...anaIlyasRA.pdf

--------------------------------------
saying 134 in chapter 8 , page 74-75

In this invitation of Deen. it should be made plainly clear to people that
the ob.ject of jamaats going out is not just to convey to others and
explain to others but it is also for our own reformation. education and
training. Therefore. during the period when being out in jamaat, one
must take extra care in being busy with ilm and zikr. Without emphasis
on ilm and zikr., coming out in the path is of no avail. It must also be
remembered that with regard to ilm and zikr it must be in association
with our elders and under their care and supervision. 'I'he ilm and zikr
ofthe Atnbiya (Altrihinitrs sulucrrn) was under the supervision of Allah.

The ilm and zikr of the sahaba (RA) was under the total care of Nabi (SAW). Likewise, in every age people acquired ilm and zikr from their elders and perfected it under their supervision and guidance. Likewise again. we are in need of our elders,otherwise there is the fear of getting ensnared in the web of shaytaan.
---------

As you see , Mawlana ILYAS ( RAH) has indicated sufi shaykhs by the word " elders ". Because , after the age of the Sahaba (RAD) ,it is the sufi saints who developed the amazing science of zikr based on their insight ( as well as divine inspiration ) about the Quran and Hadith.

The recommendation is to study the works of Moulana Iliyas [May Allah Enlighten His Grave] however it was his son Moulana Yusuf [May Allah Enlighten His Grave] who reworked the ways of the Sahabah and introduced the principles of the work from the Sahabah.

It is not sufficient to be 'stuck' to just the works of Moulana Iliyas [May Allah Enlighten His Grave] since Allah has guided the work also via his son and other members of the effort who have made contributions. Example is the introduction of the work amongst the women as the suggestion was from Qari Dawood [May Allah Enlighten His Grave] to Moulana Iliyas [May Allah Enlighten His Grave] but Moulana Yusuf [May Allah Enlighten His Grave] initial refused to apply it into the work.

No one can disagree with the immensity of the contribution made by the sufi order and many prominent scholars in history were part of that order. However there is a narration by Imaam Malik that the last generation will be rework islam like the first generation and this indicates an exact replication of their method which is not part of the sufi methodology. However this does not mean as you stated that a Murabi is not needed since having a murabi is part of the order of this deen i.e. a chain of authority in spiritual progress has existed from the advent of Jibraeel [May Allah be pleased with him] who to some extent was a murabi to the prophet [peace be upon him] and he to the sahabah and they to the successors, etc.

So my comment is not a disagreement but one must also understand the evolution of tabligh and how certain aspects have changed since Moulana Iliyas [May Allah Enlighten His Grave] especially amongst the arab community who do not apply the sufi order but maintain an order which has a structure that connects them to 'elders' but not in the perception of elders that are 'sufi' elders of what you have understood to be from the works of Moulana Iliyas [May Allah Enlighten His Grave].

[rozneesitcn]

Assalamu alaykum
This is an open forum and any body can come and say that I have decades of expereince in TJ and I heard this from one elder in that or this markaz. So your provided quotation has no value of trust or authenticity . I can identify a few elders. Moulana Saad, moulana zubair, Ahamed laat, ibraheem deola etc.

No one introduces the elders before the start of talk. And who ever speaks, speaks on behalf of these elders.

So your provided quotation has no value of trust or authenticity ???????????

[Nubtoubrem]

I have read all 3 alhamdulliah about 10 years ago.
Been in the company of many scholars and sheikhs attempting to understand the order needed to achieve proximity and believe that it is possible to achieve tazkiyah of the soul just via the avenue of tabligh if executed correctly.
This is not a fool hearty remark, my journey goes all the way to India, Pakistan and in the company of sheikhs from arab backgrounds also.

Since you have claimed that you have read the book " Irshadul Mulook " , then how will you explain the following extract in the context of TJ. A typical TJ activist ,who has not made bayt with any Sufi shaykh , does the "Taqleedi zikr " which is not , in most cases , supposed to uplift the guy to the lofty rank of Divine proximity as explained below.

-----------------------------------------------------
Source : p. 119-120

Imdaadus Suluk ,by Hadhrat Rashid Ahmad Gangohi ( RA ) in Farsi trans.

Irshadul Mulook , by Hadhrat Aashiq Ilaahi Merathi ( RA ) in Urdu trans.

http://www.muftisays.com/shop/produc...look-(pb).html
-----------------------------------


" Know that there is a difference between Taqleedi Thikr and Tahqeeqi Thikr. The Thikr which the laeity acquired from their fathers and seniors is known as Taqleedi Thikr (Thikr by following others). Although this Thikr does ward off shaitan and certainly strengthens and protects Iman, it is not as efficacious as thikr Haqeeqi, in that it cannot enable the Thakir to attain the lofty ranks of Wilayat and qurb (Divine proximity)

The Thikr which is acquired from a Sahib-e-Talqeen and Tasarruf (i.e a qualified Shaikh of Tareeqat) whose Silsilah of Thikr is an unbroken chain linking up with Rasulullah(PBUH), is known as Tahqeeqi Thikr. It is this high grade of Thikr which acts in the batin (heart,soul,etc.) of the mureed.


When this Thikr takes root in the heart of a sincere mureed by way of talqeen(instruction of the shaikh), it flourishes with obedience to the Sunnah and Amal-e-Salihah. In consequence the rays of the illumination of Wilayat strike the mureed. At that stage, by the command of Allah the fruits of mukashafat and mushahadat are continuously acquired by the mureed. By virtue of Ikhlas and honesty of intension, he will insha Allah, reap the gain of Marifat and Muhabbat. Talqeen plays a vital role in the deliverance of the Mureed to the goals of Marifat and Muhabbat. It is on this account that the Hadith likens the Mumin to a date tree. A date tree will not bear fruit if it has not been paired.

Similarly, as long a the mureed does not acquire Talqeen from a Shaikh-e-Kamil, his tree of Marifat will not bear fruit.

Abdullah Bin Umar (radiallahuanhu) narrates that Rasulullah(PBUH) said:

'There is a tree which does not shed its leaves and its similitude is like that of a Mu'min. Which tree is it?'

The sahabah began thinking about the trees in the desert.Abdullah bin Umar(radiallahuanhu) said:

'It occured to me that it is the date tree. However on account of the presence of seniors, I could not voice myself. Finally the sahabah said:

' O Rasulullah! Which tree is it?'

Rasulullah(PBUH) said:

'The date tree. Until it is not paired it will not bear.'
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Here " mukashafat and mushahadat " refers to the extraordinary perception of the illuminated heart that can see the realities of the hidden word through the inward eye. In the following thread you can find a good example of this taken from Hayatus Sahabah.

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...-amp-Mushahada

[erroxiainsona]

I have read all 3 alhamdulliah about 10 years ago.
Been in the company of many scholars and sheikhs attempting to understand the order needed to achieve proximity and believe that it is possible to achieve tazkiyah of the soul just via the avenue of tabligh if executed correctly.
This is not a fool hearty remark, my journey goes all the way to India, Pakistan and in the company of sheikhs from arab backgrounds also.
You comment leads me to assess that you have not understood the capabilities of tabligh or yourself are not engaged in the effort to the extent that you have understood the possibilities.
I suggest you study Hayatus Sahabah with a scholar who has spent one year in Jamaat and has a strong connection with NizamUddin ulema preferably the Shura there as a start...

assalaamu alaikum W R W B

[HondasMenFox]

Joining a Zikr Session and clashing with TJ is oxymoron. They both go side by side if done in balance. A seassoned TJ will know how to balance it. Without rememberance of Allah, the effort will reap little result and without the effort, the purpose of existence will not be fully realised.
It is important for a TJ to attach himself to a scholar who understand the effort rather then elders of the mosque. One should not go to an elder for seeking knowldge, it is the Ulema. One can gain wisdom from experience of the elders.

[HondasMenFox]

Since you have claimed that you have read the book " Irshadul Mulook " , then how will you explain the following extract in the context of TJ. A typical TJ activist ,who has not made bayt with any Sufi shaykh , does the "Taqleedi zikr " which is not , in most cases , supposed to uplift the guy to the lofty rank of Divine proximity as explained below.

-----------------------------------------------------
Source : p. 119-120

Imdaadus Suluk ,by Hadhrat Rashid Ahmad Gangohi ( RA ) in Farsi trans.

Irshadul Mulook , by Hadhrat Aashiq Ilaahi Merathi ( RA ) in Urdu trans.

http://www.muftisays.com/shop/produc...look-(pb).html
-----------------------------------


" Know that there is a difference between Taqleedi Thikr and Tahqeeqi Thikr. The Thikr which the laeity acquired from their fathers and seniors is known as Taqleedi Thikr (Thikr by following others). Although this Thikr does ward off shaitan and certainly strengthens and protects Iman, it is not as efficacious as thikr Haqeeqi, in that it cannot enable the Thakir to attain the lofty ranks of Wilayat and qurb (Divine proximity)

The Thikr which is acquired from a Sahib-e-Talqeen and Tasarruf (i.e a qualified Shaikh of Tareeqat) whose Silsilah of Thikr is an unbroken chain linking up with Rasulullah(PBUH), is known as Tahqeeqi Thikr. It is this high grade of Thikr which acts in the batin (heart,soul,etc.) of the mureed.


When this Thikr takes root in the heart of a sincere mureed by way of talqeen(instruction of the shaikh), it flourishes with obedience to the Sunnah and Amal-e-Salihah. In consequence the rays of the illumination of Wilayat strike the mureed. At that stage, by the command of Allah the fruits of mukashafat and mushahadat are continuously acquired by the mureed. By virtue of Ikhlas and honesty of intension, he will insha Allah, reap the gain of Marifat and Muhabbat. Talqeen plays a vital role in the deliverance of the Mureed to the goals of Marifat and Muhabbat. It is on this account that the Hadith likens the Mumin to a date tree. A date tree will not bear fruit if it has not been paired.

Similarly, as long a the mureed does not acquire Talqeen from a Shaikh-e-Kamil, his tree of Marifat will not bear fruit.

Abdullah Bin Umar (radiallahuanhu) narrates that Rasulullah(PBUH) said:

'There is a tree which does not shed its leaves and its similitude is like that of a Mu'min. Which tree is it?'

The sahabah began thinking about the trees in the desert.Abdullah bin Umar(radiallahuanhu) said:

'It occured to me that it is the date tree. However on account of the presence of seniors, I could not voice myself. Finally the sahabah said:

' O Rasulullah! Which tree is it?'

Rasulullah(PBUH) said:

'The date tree. Until it is not paired it will not bear.'
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Here " mukashafat and mushahadat " refers to the extraordinary perception of the illuminated heart that can see the realities of the hidden word through the inward eye. In the following thread you can find a good example of this taken from Hayatus Sahabah.

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...-amp-Mushahada

sigh...a sincere khanqahi with a troll-like mentality? Truly ajeeb and irritating.