[ringtonesmannq]

We need to recognize that there is a problem with the state of the Muslim World

This cannot be emphasized enough.

[induffike]

I'm strongly suggesting bro Intrepid and bro pakistani_327 to delete their posts #17 and #19.

[illiniastibly]

Salams,

While I am suspicious whenever Westerners and their lackeys talk about 'women's education' (what exactly does that mean?) I am appalled every time some hot head goes and fires his gun off in the Muslim World or sets off a bomb, killing or injuring others, thinking that violence will solve the situation. I'm sure this supposed project to 'educate women in the Muslim World' is nothing more than a plan to corrupt the women of the Ummah (having already corrupted so many of the men of the Muslim Ummah). However, instead of resorting to violence, how about these communities try and provide an alternative...as in, an education that fuses the moral and spiritual teachings of Islam with the study of secular subjects such as math and the sciences? Also, can one be so surprised that there are Muslims (men and women) going around bashing the faith they were brought up in, when they're given such an extreme black-and-white picture of things, while living under the rule of extremists such as the Taliban? Such an experience would make anyone a prime target for the brainwashing the of the godless Western imperialists, to be honest. Besides, such a knee-jerk reaction is bound to serve only as a means for said imperialists to morally prop up their invasion and subjugation of such countries as Afghanistan, etc. We need to show more compassion towards our fellow Muslims in cases such as this and provide a more nuanced, intellectually rigorous defense of our principles and present them to those who have been misguided or are confused. As a Muslim living in the West and a convert at that, I know many things that so many of the naive ones who fall for the lie that the Western/non-Muslim/hedonistic way is liberating or better than Islam...things which, if presented to those willing to listen, would probably change their minds (though there might be others who could convey the message better than I). All in all, instead of a violent response, we need to provide an alternative to both zealotry (as practiced by groups such as the Taliban) and imitation (as practiced by many modernist Muslims, who think that being exactly like a non-Muslim is the way to go, if you want a better quality of life). We need to recognize that there is a problem with the state of the Muslim World (many have talked of such a thing, but it seems like no one wants to really present an actual, viable solution that isn't out of line with people's day-to-day realities, etc.). Ultimately, if women's education in particular and the education of the Muslim World in general were handled far better, I'm sure (due to the resulting LACK of ignorance concerning morals, faith, and other practical knowledge), there would be a lot less of these kinds of stories (or at least the material to give birth to them) or more success stories about the Muslims rising up out of the mess they are currently in. I'm sure things are far more complex than just this, but we need to start somewhere...Just my two cents...

Wa Salams,

Tempest Desh

i am sorry but when you dont know the ground reality, and get news only from secular sources then it is better to stay quiet than slander your fellow Muslims. i dont think you have much idea what the reality at ground is. it is a pity i cannot explain to you in detail here.
the bold part in your post - this is what they were trying to do. the media didnt report that. its just not so easy and simple to give such an education in the brink of an eye. please have husn e dhann.

[AntonayPina]

No matter what your stance on this issue, I think it is pretty clear that 14 year-old girls should not be shot in the face. For any reason!

[Gakeincidoniac]

Salams,

How exactly did I slander anyone (got any examples)? I think you're ignoring the primary issue: The violent response by the Taliban was uncalled for and UNISLAMIC. Also, I'm not sure what kind of 'education' any so-called mullah working with such a group as the Taliban would ever provide to any woman...can you please elaborate (and I'm not referencing anything that puts culture over deen, which is something that people from that region, especially, are known for...anyone remember 1971?) BTW, Abdullah.ibn.Islam and Pursuit of Knowledge, those two points you both made, were pretty central to my post...thanks for standing up for some solid ISLAMIC principles...unlike others who put ego-based patriarchy and zealotry first, over deen...

Wa Salam,

Tempest Desh

[saerensenatljn]

i am sorry but when you dont know the ground reality, and get news only from secular sources then it is better to stay quiet than slander your fellow Muslims. i dont think you have much idea what the reality at ground is. it is a pity i cannot explain to you in detail here.
the bold part in your post - this is what they were trying to do. the media didnt report that. its just not so easy and simple to give such an education in the brink of an eye. please have husn e dhann.

As-salamu 'alaikum

Why don't you explain it? We hear news that the Taliban closes girls' schools. If you know this not to be true, then you should explain it. It can't be that har.

[saerensenatljn]

Can somebody translate Urdu blog of that girl?

[illiniastibly]

Salams,

How exactly did I slander anyone (got any examples)? I think you're ignoring the primary issue: The violent response by the Taliban was uncalled for and UNISLAMIC. Also, I'm not sure what kind of 'education' any so-called mullah working with such a group as the Taliban would ever provide to any woman...can you please elaborate (and I'm not referencing anything that puts culture over deen, which is something that people from that region, especially, are known for...anyone remember 1971?) BTW, Abdullah.ibn.Islam and Pursuit of Knowledge, those two points you both made, were pretty central to my post...thanks for standing up for some solid ISLAMIC principles...unlike others who put ego-based patriarchy and zealotry first, over deen...

Wa Salam,

Tempest Desh

with such hate and bigotry already filled in your head it is pointless to discuss anything. you cannot show how this is unislamic. if you can please do so. but remember the forums rules.
i have stated that they closed schools so that the type of education you mentioned could be given. when they are saying this why do you not wish to believe them? this was the same thing in afghanistan years back. yet Muslims like you prefer to believe the western propaganda and not their Muslim brothers' words. and then you talk about being zealot etc.

i dont know what is the point of bringing in 1971 - are you sure you are not mixing things? there were no taliban then.

[illiniastibly]

As-salamu 'alaikum

Why don't you explain it? We hear news that the Taliban closes girls' schools. If you know this not to be true, then you should explain it. It can't be that har.

the forum rules state that such discussions are not allowed. i already have an infraction....perhaps you may wish to go to any J forum or ask the moderators these questions in sensitive section of SF.

[GentlieGant]

with such hate and bigotry already filled in your head it is pointless to discuss anything. you cannot show how this is unislamic. if you can please do so. but remember the forums rules.
i have stated that they closed schools so that the type of education you mentioned could be given. when they are saying this why do you not wish to believe them? this was the same thing in afghanistan years back. yet Muslims like you prefer to believe the western propaganda and not their Muslim brothers' words. and then you talk about being zealot etc.

i dont know what is the point of bringing in 1971 - are you sure you are not mixing things? there were no taliban then.

Buddy not sure why are you advocating killing a 14 yr old kid. There are more dangerous women in pakistan than this kid, why not target them. If ttp are so Nar why not target Zardari and his gang. If they can get through army bases then why not go after the big kills. Is all their machoness comming down to a lets assume a devient 14 yr old , who mostly people didnt even know about. The truth is real mujahideen are involved elsewhere fighting enemy armys, what is in pakistan are bunch of sissies working for the enemy.

And it would be even worse to know if the so called ttp is infact a real organization fighting for deen. Then Allah help muslims if this is the state of their girly so called mujahideens.

[Lipitorseffec]

here she is praising obama, bacha khan and benazir:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=443400719029639

she was not a rights activist or anything. she was propped up by the government and US to further the bias against taliban. look at her blog on bbc, filled with utter propaganda and jokes against niqab, shariat and basically. and the blog was from swat. have anyone of you been published on BBC?

it was due to her ('her' as in the whole franchise) propaganda that pakistan armed forces got a free ticket and were able to rally popular support and attack swat, kill as much as they can and demolish shariah.

and now we dont have shariah in swat. this is the same propaganda used against afghan taliban when it was invaded 'we are going to liberate the women'.

her parents and government are responsible for this. and she is not a child. she is 14 and baaligh. yet still the parents are primarily responsible.

Then do not punish the girl. Go after the real ones that are responsible. Punishing this girl for merely talking about her diary is already over the line. Further more the girl herself wasn't given due rights allocated to her by the shariah law before any execution can take place.

[illiniastibly]

Buddy not sure why are you advocating killing a 14 yr old kid. There are more dangerous women in pakistan than this kid, why not target them. If ttp are so Nar why not target Zardari and his gang. If they can get through army bases then why not go after the big kills. Is all their machoness comming down to a lets assume a devient 14 yr old , who mostly people didnt even know about. The truth is real mujahideen are involved elsewhere fighting enemy armys, what is in pakistan are bunch of sissies working for the enemy.

And it would be even worse to know if the so called ttp is infact a real organization fighting for deen. Then Allah help muslims if this is the state of their girly so called mujahideens.

exactly this is a good question. why did ttp attack kamra and hugely intensified their attacks right after plans for n.waziristan operation were 'announced'? and now why this and not attack on any secular as you say?
the girl's family was warned before it seems. what my belief is there is a plan to have a knee-jerk reaction from army out of this.

as for girly mujahideen. they were the same ones who did pns mehran and kamra and GHQ. among other things. not very girly. why would they resort to killing just a girl when they can routinely attack army quite easily? they are nowhere near defeated by army to resort to 'girly attacks'. this is the puzzle we all are looking for the answer of.
(p.s it is still not confirmed that ttp did it. but we are quite certain that it is.)

you still seem to not acknowledge that she was a baaligh. for which I cannot say anything else.

[illiniastibly]

Further more the girl herself wasn't given due rights allocated to her by the shariah law before any execution can take place.

incorrect. she wasnt a criminal she was a combatant.
why shouldn't a baaligh be punished? its not as though she is 6-7 years old. or are you denying like others here that 14 does not mean she is baaligh?

[Lipitorseffec]

exactly this is a good question. why did ttp attack kamra and hugely intensified their attacks right after plans for n.waziristan operation were 'announced'? and now why this and not attack on any secular as you say?
the girl's family was warned before it seems. what my belief is there is a plan to have a knee-jerk reaction from army out of this.

as for girly mujahideen. they were the same ones who did pns mehran and kamra and GHQ. among other things. not very girly. why would they resort to killing just a girl when they can routinely attack army quite easily? they are nowhere near defeated by army to resort to 'girly attacks'. this is the puzzle we all are looking for the answer of.
(p.s it is still not confirmed that ttp did it. but we are quite certain that it is.)

you still seem to not acknowledge that she was a baaligh. for which I cannot say anything else.

was she given her due right under the shariah law before TTP went and shot her? Was that warning given to her endorsed by scholars with authenticated dalils? I have no knowledge of TTP but if their actions can't be justified from Islamic sources, then it should be made known that those actions were not Islamic at all.

[Lipitorseffec]

incorrect. she wasnt a criminal she was a combatant.
why shouldn't a baaligh be punished? its not as though she is 6-7 years old. or are you denying like others here that 14 does not mean she is baaligh?

you mean anyone who complains about TTP can be considered a combatant?

Any dalils for that?

[GentlieGant]

exactly this is a good question. why did ttp attack kamra and hugely intensified their attacks right after plans for n.waziristan operation were 'announced'? and now why this and not attack on any secular as you say?
the girl's family was warned before it seems. what my belief is there is a plan to have a knee-jerk reaction from army out of this.

as for girly mujahideen. they were the same ones who did pns mehran and kamra and GHQ. among other things. not very girly. why would they resort to killing just a girl when they can routinely attack army quite easily? they are nowhere near defeated by army to resort to 'girly attacks'. this is the puzzle we all are looking for the answer of.
(p.s it is still not confirmed that ttp did it. but we are quite certain that it is.)

you still seem to not acknowledge that she was a baaligh. for which I cannot say anything else.

I dont know buddy who and what your agenda is. But ur reasoning doesnt seem right. Either you are caught up in this fitnah or you just have ur facts wrong. I dont feel like arguing anymore. Big times of fitnah and more to come ahead. Allah protect us all.

[illiniastibly]

you mean anyone who complains about TTP can be considered a combatant?

Any dalils for that?

'complain'?

a paid bbc propaganda published on bbc's main website so that army can have a free ticket in swat is 'complain'?

look at her ideals and what she was being used for to promote: secularism, anti-shariah, anti-niqab in Swat. read her urdu blog where she is repeating jokes people made about niqab and spreading misinformation about ttp.

the problem is people are refusing to recognize she is a baaligh and not a child. she and that fake video of flogging were made viral so that army can destroy shariah in swat. her family was warned several times not to indulge in this.

people need to stop reading secular news and believing everything that they report.

[illiniastibly]

I dont know buddy who and what your agenda is. But ur reasoning doesnt seem right. Either you are caught up in this fitnah or you just have ur facts wrong. I dont feel like arguing anymore. Big times of fitnah and more to come ahead. Allah protect us all.

i stated the facts. these all facts can be verified if one wishes.

[Lipitorseffec]

'complain'?

a paid bbc propaganda published on bbc's main website so that army can have a free ticket in swat is 'complain'?

look at her ideals and what she was being used for to promote: secularism, anti-shariah, anti-niqab in Swat. read her urdu blog where she is repeating jokes people made about niqab and spreading misinformation about ttp.

the problem is people are refusing to recognize she is a baaligh and not a child. she and that fake video of flogging were made viral so that army can destroy shariah in swat. her family was warned several times not to indulge in this.

people need to stop reading secular news and believing everything that they report.

then go after the real perpetrator. You don't kill a postman just because of a letter, even if the letter you received is actually poison. You go after the sender, and made it known to everyone including the messenger what is it all about, and let the law takes its due course.

[illiniastibly]

then go after the real perpetrator. You don't kill a postman just because of a letter, even if the letter you received is actually poison. You go after the sender, and made it known to everyone including the messenger what is it all about, and let the law takes its due course.

brother she was the perpetrator. she is baaligh now and she was warned. notice she wasn't attacked when she was 11 but when she was 14. there is more to her than just some blog.