[ethigSmimbine]

Their philosophy is basically focused on....

promoting the Gold Dinar as the key to restoration of the Caliphate,

pointing out how bad the banking system is and the harms of the Jewish banking families (such as the Rothschilds),

anti-democracy and in support of personal rule (preferable righteous Islamic Amirate but will accept pro-Islamic monarchy)

anti-Ikhwan and anti-Salafi but not against Ibn Taymiyyah (probably as he valued the Amal of Madinah),

strongly against anthropomorphism and in support of Ashari/Maturidi schools

strongly against Perrenialism and groups that may seem a bit Perrenialist (Naqshbandi Haqqanis)

seeing the Amal of Madinah and the Maliki Madhab as being the cure for the ills of the Ummah



I used to read Sunniform often back then but wasn't a member. I seem to remember that Murabitun people faced difficulties due to their view that some types of music are halal, being rather relaxed over issues of hijab and some other issues like that.

Also there was a big online tussle between some Murabituners and some of Sheikh Nuh Kellers followers a while back (for reasons I cannot remember) and that affected several forums, directly and indirectly.


(excuse my interloping)

[kertionderf]

Hardcore ikwani muslimeen thought they formed a revolutionary 'vanguard' (socialist and modernist influences) against a jahili society which was kafir. They were isolationist takfiris. Had they not adopted these modernist assumptions, actually setup a baitul mal and collected zakaat they would have had more success.

People can rebel against the nation-state in non violent ways, not paying taxes, hiding ones true income from the state, exploiting the inefficient bureaucracy by losing paperwork, delaying tactics...doing everything to help the state ruin itself. And all the time building something to replace it, something fluid, dynamic and capable of good government, Violent struggle is often instigated by the state itself because it helps the state to empower itself in the name of security. Terrorism is a losing tactic adopted by losers or 'useful idiots' employed by the state and unknowingly helping the state.

brother I am talking about the real original Muslim brotherhood under Imam Hassan al Banna Shaheed (ra) from 1928 onwards.

I am definitely not talking about the Qutbists that you are thinking about - who are on a different methodology entirely.

[gechaheritt]

As-salamu 'alaikum wa rahmatu Allahi wa barakatuh

Breivik won't most likely ever get out, inshaa Allah. He might have gotten 21 years but in practice it is a life-time sentence.

I think people are seriously mistaken when they talk about Breivik being considered a human being or him getting special treatment for being white or Christian. In Nordic countries, Breivik is seen for what he really is - a monster.

[DghtRdc]

As-salamu 'alaikum wa rahmatu Allahi wa barakatuh

Breivik won't most likely ever get out, inshaa Allah. He might have gotten 21 years but in practice it is a life-time sentence.

I think people are seriously mistaken when they talk about Breivik being considered a human being or him getting special treatment for being white or Christian. In Nordic countries, Breivik is seen for what he really is - a monster.

If he had been brown, Muslim and in al-Qaeda you can be pretty sure that he would not have only got 21 years,

If he had been brown, Muslim and in al-Qaeda you can be pretty sure that he would not have his own personal gym and personal office with a laptop like Breivik does.

[Avaboormavoro]

If he had been brown, Muslim and in al-Qaeda you can be pretty sure that he would not have only got 21 years,

If he had been brown, Muslim and in al-Qaeda you can be pretty sure that he would not have his own personal gym and personal office with a laptop like Breivik does.

As-salamu 'alaikum wa rahmatu Allahi wa barakatuh

Do we have any proof which suggests that this is the case? Has a brown Muslim from al-Qaeda been convicted for killing civilians in Norway?

Norway is pretty liberal. The reason why Breivik has all that "cool" stuff is because others, Norwegian prisoners, would kill him in prison. I would not find that far-fetched to think an al-Qaeda member would get the same stuff. Norway is not the US.

To me it is really the same. I want both an al-Qaeda member who murders civilians and Breivik to be locked up due to the obvious threat. I don't care if he receives 21 years on paper but life in practice.

If you have other proof that Muslims and brown people receive harsher sentences in Norway, then you have a point. You cannot generalise based on one incident. There needs to be a clear trend.

[farmarrl]

^ Do you mean to say that even if brevik was a muslim he would have been dealt with similarly ?

[Pipindula]

^ Do you mean to say that even if brevik was a muslim he would have been dealt with similarly ?

Wa 'alaikumu as-salam wa rahmatu Allahi wa barakatuh

It would be similar but different. I don't think the Muslim would have necessarily been thought of as insane, which is a positive depending on how you think of this. Breivik dreaded being deemed a psycho. He didn't want to be seen as insane because that would damage his cause in his mind. People don't want to be deemed as nutjobs. Breivik was happy not to be declared insane! Most of Breivik's trial was about whether he was insane or not. Being declared insane is humiliating.

The fact is Breivik has caused damage to people like him in Norway. It threw his ideology in bad light.

I don't think the sentence would be that different. A Muslim would most likely get life, which Breivik has also got in practice. I don't think the Norwegian goverment is going to let him out after this fiasco. Have you followed this case? There was a big investagation into the police response. It found that this thing could have been prevented better handled. It was found to be inadequate. The Primime Minister said he, as the country's head, had to take the blame for the delayed response. An absolute fiasco which they don't want to relive.

Quite frankly, I don't know if a Muslim would have gotten a mattress as soft as Breivik's with absolute certainty. But since there is no evidence that Muslims receive poorer facilities in Norwegian prisons, I will assume that he would have seeing that Norway is very liberal.

If a Muslim had done this, I would want him behind bars just like Breivik. It does not matter whether it is Breivik or a Muslim. The only problem if it was a Muslim, would have been the backlash against the Muslims and Islam. That is very dreadful and hateful to me.

In summary, it would have been quite similar but slightly different, not much in practice. And Allahs knows best.

[j2Y6Ysmb]

QUOTE=Younes;812474]
If a Muslim had done this, I would want him behind bars just like Breivik. It does not matter whether it is Breivik or a Muslim. The only problem if it was a Muslim, would have been the backlash against the Muslims and Islam. That is very dreadful and hateful to me.
Yet there are Muslims who think such tactics are sanctioned by Islam. They think if Government A causes harm to Muslims then anyone who lives under the authority of that government is a valid target...even if they are against the actions of their own government...or it is well known that their own government has lied to them. How is this ethical? It is not, Islam clearly teaches us that every individual is responsible for their actions...you cannot punish persons b, c, and d for something that A did. This is basic...yet there are people who think this basic understanding can be twisted to fit into their agenda. They even slander ulama who disagree with this, by saying they are lying because it is permissible to lie in war....and lying to Muslims even is ok I presume.