[Mjxhnapi]

Tabligh is far better, as they wont fight for where to tie hands like what Salafis/Ahle hadith do.

Nowdays learning ilm as become a fashion/trend for few muslims, May Allah protect us.
One Shaykh said abt nthe importance of seeking knowledge. To seek knowledge is to seek knowledge - importantly its not to teach others as the Salafis/modern muslims think.

Islam is oral tradition not a written tradition. May Allah guide the free thinkers of Islam in correct path

[Sellorect]

I think their usage of the word Hanafi is in the literal meaning (as in monotheist) and not the common ('urfi) meaning, as in an adherent of the Hanafi mathhab. They seem to employ this lexical strategy to confuse the Hanafi laity. I presume not all Salafis recognise this and therefore criticise the Al Kauthar crew because of this. Their are also various strands within the Salafis and the criticism might be based on this. I know some Salafis who are particularly vocal in their critcism of the Al Kauthar and Al Maghrib lot.

not sure where your based, but in the UK (london specifically) there is a divide amongst the salafis where some people support things like al kauthar...and the salafis who are against them...they mostly dont support them because of yasir qadhi and their signing the unity pledge and also because of his pro-america views...they also have fiqhi differences with them such as yasir qadhis/ muhammad al shareefs stance on the beard etc

but from what i notice the salafis who are anti yasir qadhi are a little more educated in terms of what a madhab is wallahu alam...they mostly refer to themselves as hanbalis and don't really use the salafi label anymore...although they don't follow the traditional opinions in the hanbali madhab and follow most of the same shaykhs shaykh albani and co

and then we have the salafis who are very anti-madhab...they are also against these institutes because they seem to have 'hanafi' scholars and consider them misguided and following a madhab to be bidah

basically there is a lot of divide amongst salafis in the UK

To me it seemed like yasir qadhi etc changed when al-kauthar popped up...and they keep changing...and it seems like its all about attracting a wider audience...wallahu alam but the yasir qadhi back when al-kauthar was not around was veryy different and had he been the same al-kauthar would not be half as popular as it is today especially in the US...makes you ask yourself could this all just be business tactics

[daguy]

this issue was discussed ago,i attended 1 their event,when we oresented hanafi point of view,they replied its only zaif hadis,beware of them,this is totally business,they take 1500 rs for 2 days caurse.
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...alkauthar.org&

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...ly-Soon./page2

[KlaraNovikoffa]

makes you ask yourself could this all just be business tactics

There a factor that is more endear to man than wealth. Its called Jah ie winning the hearts of others. It is coveted by everyone, sometimes people have more longing for Jah than for wealth. I just read an extract on Jah by Imam Ghazzali.

"The answer to the question posed earlier is that, in truth and reality, love of Jah produces an intoxication which can hardly be eradicated. There are two reasons for this. One of these is manifest and can be conceived by everyone. But the other one being related to a peculiar trait of the human-self, is so subtle and latent that i would be difficult even for the most intelligent to grasp it fully. " -Imam Ghazzali

P.s. I m not accusing anyone in particular, just talking in General.

[Rinkeliacasse]

Tabligh is far better, as they wont fight for where to tie hands like what Salafis/Ahle hadith do.

Nowdays learning ilm as become a fashion/trend for few muslims, May Allah protect us.
One Shaykh said abt nthe importance of seeking knowledge. To seek knowledge is to seek knowledge - importantly its not to teach others as the Salafis/modern muslims think.

Islam is oral tradition not a written tradition. May Allah guide the free thinkers of Islam in correct path

Its a blessing, yes.

[hotelhyatt]

Stop.

Next time, use a New-Sony-Voice-Recorders-ICD-SX712d-ICD-UX512-and-ICD-PX312-470x361.jpg and record their lectures.

You mean use ear plugs

[Sydaycymn]

You mean use ear plugs

In one way, yes.

[quottrethew]

Brother Afriki Haqq,

Who is Mirza Yawar Baig and what role does he play into all of this?

[Keendwainge]

Brother Afriki Haqq,

Who is Mirza Yawar Baig and what role does he play into all of this?

Regarding Mirza Yawar Baig, I don't know much but I do know he is heavily involved with AK. He is from Hyderabad in India (Google for his "Yawar Associates"). At the last AK retreat in South Africa Mirza Yawar spent the entire weekend with the group, etc. He is more of a motivational speaker and I haven't seen him present an Aqeedah or Fiqh course. In an email Mirza Yawar quite vehemently denied being a Salafi and went to the extent of saying prove for this is his association with some of the senior South African (Hanafi/Deobandi) 'Ulama. But his association with Salafis is also a known fact.

I don't think his a scholar like Bilal Ismail. If he sticks to social topics/motivational etc then that should be fine.

PS: Channel Islam playns a short clip of his daily in the mornings. Take a listen to that and it might give some background into Mirza Yawar.

On this same topic I would like to mention that one of the other Shaykhs is Zimbabwean born Madinah graduate - Shaykh Sajid Omar. Radio Islam has given him considerable airtime in that he has been given a whole slot to do a study of Imaam Nawawis Riyadh us-Saaliheen. I don't know if this program is still on-going but when I contacted the Radio Islam 'alims I had no response from them.

I await others to correct and enlighten me on the above two.

[gZAhTyWY]

I think association with Deobandi Ulama is oft-cited by these individuals to gain legitimacy among Deobandis. I think that's a wake-up call for our Ulama to exercise greater care. The laity needs to also not fall for cheap tactics such as that.

Check this link: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/india-unity/message/5478

Baig seems to be giving credence to a view of interchanging between mathhabs. Such sentiments were also echoed in a report that he wrote in 2006 at the behest of the Jamiat-e-Ulama of South Africa. His views are clearly not in tranquility with those of the Ulama of Deoband.

[slowlexrese]

Just came across this book:

http://yawarbaig.org/Publications/Ul...yforchange.pdf

Skimmed through a few pages. Perhaps the others can read and comment. From what I see a lot of disregard is shown to the derives of the 'Ulama and in particular Darul 'Uloom Deoband.

Will add more comments later as well as to your above post Mawlana

[BoboStin]

Just came across this book:

http://yawarbaig.org/Publications/Ul...yforchange.pdf

Skimmed through a few pages. Perhaps the others can read and comment. From what I see a lot of disregard is shown to the derives of the 'Ulama and in particular Darul 'Uloom Deoband.

Will add more comments later as well as to your above post Mawlana

If Baig really wanted to make a change, then why did he firstly write in English and secondly why publish it online - provide nasihah privately. I feel there's an agenda. What he seems to be calling for is very utopian and idealistic. All the best to him in that regard. There is a certain Indian class that tends to place all social ills on the shoulders of the ulama and madaris. Baig is no different in that respect.

It's clear Al Kauthar knows its target market well. The dawa has been shaped to lead astray naive Hanafis.

[Rememavotscam]

I think association with Deobandi Ulama is oft-cited by these individuals to gain legitimacy among Deobandis. I think that's a wake-up call for our Ulama to exercise greater care. The laity needs to also not fall for cheap tactics such as that.

Check this link: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/india-unity/message/5478

Baig seems to be giving credence to a view of interchanging between mathhabs. Such sentiments were also echoed in a report that he wrote in 2006 at the behest of the Jamiat-e-Ulama of South Africa. His views are clearly not in tranquility with those of the Ulama of Deoband.

The article on the link shows a side of Mirza Yawar that I was unaware of. It seems, along with the other book, that he is some sort of authority in Fiqh. Perhaps anyone could highlight his studies/learning to know exactly what he is qualified as.

Mawlana, can you link in the article of 2006, please.

In his book "Ulama Strategy for Change", he writes:

They became and created super specialists in the religious texts with no attempt to look at their application to fast changing external realities of society. And they also started preparing ‘priests’; students whose role was seen as being confined to Imaamat in masaajid and teaching in Madaaris. Interestingly, they even called the Ja’amia Islamia, a ‘Seminary’ and its Nazim or Muhtamim, ‘The Rector’. It is tragic to note that no attempt was made at least to be distinct from Christian Religious institutions in nomenclature.

That is enough for me to be put off the Mirza.

More Info about Mirza Yawar from the same book:

MIRZA YAWAR BAIG
International Speaker, Trainer, Corporate Consultant, specializing in Leadership Development helping technical specialists transition into Management and Leadership roles. Founder, YAWAR BAIG & ASSOCIATES© Yawar teaches leadership in the United States, India, South Africa, Sri Lanka and Malaysia. Yawar received his initial Islamic education in Jamia Ilahiyaat Nooria in Hyderabad and later at the feet of Ulama and Shuyookh in Saudi Arabia, India and America.
Yawar speaks on Islam internationally especially about the importance of Muslims becoming Standard Bearers of Islam in order to showcase Islam for the World. Yawar has taught, engineers, teachers, businessmen, police officers and administrators on three continents and speaks five languages. Yawar specializes in helping family businesses transition from being ‘Person-led to becoming Processdriven’.
He is a life coach and mentor for prominent family businesses in India, South
Africa & Sri Lanka.

CONSULTANT PANEL MEMBERSHIPS ISLAMIC LEADERSHIP
Advisor, Jamiat ul Ulama, South Africa
Advisor, Association of Muslim Schools, South Africa
Advisor, Jamiat ul Ulama, Sri Lanka
Advisor, Jamia Syed Ahmed Shaheed, India
Advisor, Al Mahad Al Islami, Hyderabad, India

PUBLICATIONS / SEMINARS
· Attitude to Ilm of Deen
· Burden of the Standard Bearer
· Islam & World Peace
· Islamic or Scientific Education?
· Islam – A Rational Perspective
· Challenges for the Ulama

BOOKS
· The Business of Family Business
· An Entrepreneur’s Diary
· The Messenger & The Message
· A Journey of Faith
· Hiring Winners
· Present Your Way to the Top Saviour of the 'Ulama?

[8Uxtkz7F]

Assalamualaikum warahmatullah wa barakatuh

I have been to a few courses in Johannesburg.
Working in the corporate world means that I don’t really get a chance to devote my time to Studying Islam. So these weekend courses are perfect for me. The “Jamiat al ulema” has been slow to offer such courses but alhamdulilah launched their first weekend course this past weekend titled “Understanding the west and Muslim responsibilities”.

I really wanted to attend but unfortunately I couldn’t make it. They also covered the topic of Jihad which many scholars are afraid to cover, so it was quite refreshing to see them being pro active in tackling this subject. I hope they covered it in a forthright manner whichout watering things down to appease anybody. I doubt you will get a talk on Jihad from Al kauthar.
Al kauthar does have a course on the seerah of the prophet (saw) during the Madina period in Johannesburg on the25th and 26th of Feb. Its gonna be interesting to see how they try and bypass the battle of the battle of Tabuk and Surah Taubah.

Anyway coming to the topic of discussion. I have been to a number of these Al kauthar courses. The historical ones are excellent in their presentation, detail, referencing and the application of lessons to our lives.

The fiqh courses are fascinating for me as a beginner student. Even though I am a hanafi and I follow the hanafi madhab, I don’t want to limit my knowledge to my madhab only. I enjoy learning about all the madhabs and the views of other scholars like Sufyaan al thawri, ibn Hazam from the Dhahiri Madhab and Ibn Taymiyah.
I might not agree with some of these scholars but I still enjoy learning about their view.

The instructor usually presents the various views and the reasons why the scholars differed. They tend to be very open to the following of madhabs and I have yet to hear any of the instructors urging students to leave their madhab.


Wasalaam

[zabiqapara]

Assalamualaikum warahmatullah wa barakatuh

and welcome to the forum brother.

I have been to a few courses in Johannesburg. I am also from Johannesburg, good to have someone from the same city on SF

Working in the corporate world means that I don’t really get a chance to devote my time to Studying Islam. So these weekend courses are perfect for me. The “Jamiat al ulema” has been slow to offer such courses but alhamdulilah launched their first weekend course this past weekend titled “Understanding the west and Muslim responsibilities”. There are other institutes that offer similar courses, one such that comes to mind is Ar-Rihla (www.rihla.co.za), you should check it out.

I really wanted to attend but unfortunately I couldn’t make it. They also covered the topic of Jihad which many scholars are afraid to cover, so it was quite refreshing to see them being pro active in tackling this subject. I hope they covered it in a forthright manner whichout watering things down to appease anybody. I doubt you will get a talk on Jihad from Al kauthar.
Al kauthar does have a course on the seerah of the prophet (saw) during the Madina period in Johannesburg on the25th and 26th of Feb. Its gonna be interesting to see how they try and bypass the battle of the battle of Tabuk and Surah Taubah. Ismail Adam Patel of the UK done the course along with Mawlana Ebrahim Bham.

Anyway coming to the topic of discussion. I have been to a number of these Al kauthar courses. The historical ones are excellent in their presentation, detail, referencing and the application of lessons to our lives. and it is the history of our pious salaf that is an inspiration to us, in that regard you should see this blog which is a humble effort to document the undocumented history of our pious predecessors.


The fiqh courses are fascinating for me as a beginner student. Even though I am a hanafi and I follow the hanafi madhab, I don’t want to limit my knowledge to my madhab only. I enjoy learning about all the madhabs and the views of other scholars like Sufyaan al thawri, ibn Hazam from the Dhahiri Madhab and Ibn Taymiyah.
I might not agree with some of these scholars but I still enjoy learning about their view. As a beginner student shouldn't you concentrate on your own madhab and solidifying your knowledge of the fiqh of your madhab? I dont think any traditional scholar would teach in this way, this is rather a salient feature of the Salafis, and the beginning of the start to convert a person to la-madhabism.

The instructor usually presents the various views and the reasons why the scholars differed. They tend to be very open to the following of madhabs and I have yet to hear any of the instructors urging students to leave their madhab. That is the point, they never tell you to leave your madhab but sow seeds of doubts in your mind about following a madhab. I personally know people who after attending Al-Kauthar have changed madhabs or have completely left following a madhab.

This is only on the fiqh courses. We did not even touch on the aqeedah.

I suggest you start by reading the book "The Legal Status of Following a Madhab" by Shaykh (Mufti) Taqi 'Uthmani (HA)


To add, I just want to say that this is humble advice from my side and I ask for sincere maaf if I have come across rudely or harshly and this is not my intention. I have seen many that I know getting sucked into Salafism, la-madhabism, etc and it is a dark and murky world out there. The Ummah was united for centuries on 4 madhabs and 2 schools of aqeeda until the Salafis came on the field. Feel free to contact me, maybe we can meet up sometime

[Tribas4u]

It seems, along with the other book, that he is some sort of authority in Fiqh. Perhaps anyone could highlight his studies/learning to know exactly what he is qualified as. His comments on fiqh etc lack academic rigour.

[Vomazoono]

Wasalaam

Jazakallah khair for the welcome and for your advice. No offence taken brother.

I will keep your warnings and advice top of mind inshallah.

BTW- The history courses that I referred to were regarding the 4 caliphs.

I know my madhab really well and if i dont know the ruling on an issue then i ask. Why should i limit my knowledge?

Can you share with me an issue of Aqeedah that you heard the instructors mention at any of the courses, which goes against the aqeedah of the Ahlus sunnah wal jamaah?

Wasalaam

[Jasonstawnosaa]

Wasalaam

Jazakallah khair for the welcome and for your advice. No offence taken brother.

I will keep your warnings and advice top of mind inshallah.

BTW- The history courses that I referred to were regarding the 4 caliphs.

I know my madhab really well and if i dont know the ruling on an issue then i ask. Why should i limit my knowledge?

Can you share with me an issue of Aqeedah that you heard the instructors mention at any of the courses, which goes against the aqeedah of the Ahlus sunnah wal jamaah?

Wasalaam

If you look into the life of the great scholars of the past then you would be amazed to find out that as great as their knowledge was they remained muqallids of one madhab.

Regarding the Aqeedah, then we should look at the lecturers of AK and where and with whom they have studied and a picture of their Aqeedah will become abit clear. Also, on the AK forum I have come across a thread where one of the lecturers has given a list of recommended readings on Aqeedah and many of the texts mentioned are problematic. The thread is here.

Also, I direct you to one of my initial posts on this topic where I quoted the Forum Ameer, Mufti Husain (HA).

There is more information on SF about AK etc, use the search to find these.

I found this one by one of the learned member, Colonel_Hardstone

AAWW,

I have been informed by a 2 or 3 brothers now that an al-kauthar course on the 4 Madhabs called "chronicles of the Shariah" was very good. The speaker was Imtiaz Damiel and the event has been held in Manchester and in London. Its now going to happen in India.

Does anybody have a copy of the presentation used on the day, or maybe a recording of the event.

wslm

Originally Posted by Colonel_Hardstone

1) Shaykh Imtiaz Damiel is doing courses on "Salafi Aqeedah"

2) "Chronicles of Shariah"/Evolution of Fiqh has a lot of material from Abu Ameenah Bilal Phillips

So make up your mind about this...

On a side: I would mention that Ar-Rihla are also doing courses. Anyone interested can check their website www.rihla.co.za

[NowFloabDow]

....

brother, can you look at these two threads as well

Bayaans, Lectures, Programs - South Africa

An appeal to South Africans + UPDATES

[VtLe67WR]

Jazakallah khair for the link to future lectures and talks in SA

If you look into the life of the great scholars of the past then you would be amazed to find out that as great as their knowledge was they remained muqallids of one madhab.

Brother, I’m not debating with you the issue of muqallid and ghair muqalid as I follow the Hanafi Madhab.

I found this one by one of the learned member, Colonel_Hardstone

The link to Colonel_Hardstone doest take me to anything specific to Al kauthar???

This is only on the fiqh courses. We did not even touch on the aqeedah.

Can you share with me an issue of Aqeedah that you heard the instructors mention at any of the courses, which goes against the aqeedah of the Ahlus sunnah wal jamaah?

Please answer the question my dear brother.

The thing is, either you heard them speak against madhabs or you didn’t and I’m starting to get the feeling that you haven’t attended a course and you are basing your views on hearsay.

I actually attended the Chronicles of the shariah course by Imtiaz Damiel and not once was he disrespectful to Imaam Abu Hanifa (rahmatullah alayh), Imaam Abu Yusuf (rahmatullah alayh) or Imaam Muhammad (rahmatullah alayh), and not once did he urge the students to leave their madhab, not even a subtle hint.

Furthermore, There were Hanafis , Shafies, Hanbalis and Maalikis at the course and I didn’t hear a single statement against any of the Madhabs or against any of the great Imaams.

I think you should come and attend the next course with me inshallah. So that if the instructor steps out of line in terms of Aqeedah then you will be able to pick it up. And you will be able to view the instructor’s attitude towards madhabs firsthand.

Hope that we can sit together at the course inshallah so that we base our discussion on firsthand experience and not on hearsay.

Wa alaikum salaam