[Vznvtthq]

Typically before marriage the bride and groom would have met in a halaal way - but in some cultures / families / previous generations they might have not met until the wedding day. And then that night they are supposed to do it -- isn't that a form of "rape" as they hardly know each other?

[NerbuitW]

And then that night they are supposed to do it -- isn't that a form of "rape" as they hardly know each other?

It isnt. Since it is consensual, mutual, natural, ethical and above all, halaal!

(Exceptions are just that - exceptions)

[HakTaisanip]

It depends from person to person.

[Aozenee]

Most of the men want to start it quick and finish in minutes.

there are 2 kinds of approach - in my opinion
1. One sits and eats, enjoys the biryani slowly.
2. The other eats like a beggar like - eating biryani after 15 days of no food.

[Verger99]

Typically before marriage the bride and groom would have met in a halaal way - but in some cultures / families / previous generations they might have not met until the wedding day. And then that night they are supposed to do it -- isn't that a form of "rape" as they hardly know each other?

Well if someone is not ready for sex on the first day of marriage...just tell it to your partner and he MUST NOT force you to do it! Simple as that!

Women's body is WOMEN'S BODY! It is NOT for men to use as they like or to produce babies from them.. Everything must be consensual!!!!

[erubresen]

Typically before marriage the bride and groom would have met in a halaal way - but in some cultures / families / previous generations they might have not met until the wedding day. And then that night they are supposed to do it -- isn't that a form of "rape" as they hardly know each other?

A lawful marriage in Islam consists of an offer and acceptance between the man and the 'wali' of the woman. Given that the woman consents to the actions of the 'wali', then that constitutes the 'consent' towards sexual relations.

'Rape' is a legal description of sexual intercourse WITHOUT consent.

So it is NOT right to compare them.

Within the parameters of a lawful marriage in Islam, the EXAMPLE OF THE PROPHET is the best. He was gentle, and spoken lovingly and wooed his wives.


Sister, may I ask why you raise this issue? Are you entering into a marriage without consent?
Have you read/heard something which suggested this to you?

[WhiliaStelt]

Typically before marriage the bride and groom would have met in a halaal way - but in some cultures / families / previous generations they might have not met until the wedding day. And then that night they are supposed to do it -- isn't that a form of "rape" as they hardly know each other?

A large part of the kuffar are always having sex with people they hardly know, do you call that rape too?


What I am wondering is, in this scenario in your imagination, have the couple married against their will or with it? You know that a forced marriage does not count in Islam, yes?


Sex is not something just nice for men it is nice for women too if her husband is considerate and has some idea how to behave generously, Prophet (saws) ordered that we not do it like animals (foreplay is a Muslim duty as is consideration between spouses).


I'm sure that you understand that this is very definitely not a good subject for a message board with both males and females on it. You should try reading A Guide to Sexual Relations by Mufti Muhammad Ibn Adam Kawthari. It should answer any concerns or questions you have.


http://archive.org/stream/IslamicGui...ge/n1/mode/2up

[karaburatoreror]

You've all misunderstood me :-(. I didn't literally mean rape... that's why I put it in inverted commas.

Use this example, in previous generations it was common for the spouses' parents/relatives to meet and agree to the marriage without the bride / groom ever meeting. They were both satisfied with their parent's choice. They didn't even speak on the phone if it existed. OK. On the wedding day you sit next to each other but you don't get to know each other? Then few hours later you are alone in the bedroom and within few hours you are supposed to consummate without hardly knowing each other. That's a biiiiiiiiiiiiiiig step! I know about the ahadith about foreplay, etc - I'm not talking about this aspect.

Understand now?

In some ways the non Muslim method of dating, getting to know each other before marriage before the act would "seem" better. But this goes against Islamic principles of no physical intimacy outside of marriage, being in private unmarried and so forth.

The Prophet did allow some leeway to the prospective spouses getting to know each other before the Nikah ceremony, provided Islamic rules of modesty are attained and the couple aren't in complete seclusion. We all know this but sometimes even today this recommendation isn't executed. Either they don't see each other at all like in previous generations or they go further than what is permitted Islamically.

[nuncEtedben]

Most of the men want to start it quick and finish in minutes.

there are 2 kinds of approach - in my opinion
1. One sits and eats, enjoys the biryani slowly.
2. The other eats like a beggar like - eating biryani after 15 days of no food.

Well its unfortunately true that Muslim men , specially some in a certain socio economic class are sexually starved .

They do not enter natural sexual relations with women at the prime of their youth when sexual activity is most needed.
( I mean marriage of course )

This always creates dysfunctional sexuality both mentally and physically . Its a very common and basic human sexual behavior problem for both men and women . In our society maybe its more apparent with men .

[Freeptube]

You've all misunderstood me :-(. I didn't literally mean rape... that's why I put it in inverted commas.

Use this example, in previous generations it was common for the spouses' parents/relatives to meet and agree to the marriage without the bride / groom ever meeting. They were both satisfied with their parent's choice. They didn't even speak on the phone if it existed. OK. On the wedding day you sit next to each other but you don't get to know each other? Then few hours later you are alone in the bedroom and within few hours you are supposed to consummate without hardly knowing each other. That's a biiiiiiiiiiiiiiig step! I know about the ahadith about foreplay, etc - I'm not talking about this aspect.

Understand now?

In some ways the non Muslim method of dating, getting to know each other before marriage before the act would "seem" better. But this goes against Islamic principles of no physical intimacy outside of marriage, being in private unmarried and so forth.

The Prophet did allow some leeway to the prospective spouses getting to know each other before the Nikah ceremony, provided Islamic rules of modesty are attained and the couple aren't in complete seclusion. We all know this but sometimes even today this recommendation isn't executed. Either they don't see each other at all like in previous generations or they go further than what is permitted Islamically.

Salam,

These are hard times of course, but please never say, Kufaar are better. Many muslims say this and in unawareness, they invite Muslims to get closer to Kuffaar instead of Allah (swt) and His Prophet (sws).

Also, suppose some sister has to bear some hardship because of her husband, then Allah (swt) will compensate her. Means, as a true believer you are not going to lose anything, you are always going to gain something.

[Nurse_sero]

You've all misunderstood me :-(. I didn't literally mean rape... that's why I put it in inverted commas.

Use this example, in previous generations it was common for the spouses' parents/relatives to meet and agree to the marriage without the bride / groom ever meeting. They were both satisfied with their parent's choice. They didn't even speak on the phone if it existed. OK. On the wedding day you sit next to each other but you don't get to know each other? Then few hours later you are alone in the bedroom and within few hours you are supposed to consummate without hardly knowing each other. That's a biiiiiiiiiiiiiiig step! I know about the ahadith about foreplay, etc - I'm not talking about this aspect.

Understand now?

In some ways the non Muslim method of dating, getting to know each other before marriage before the act would "seem" better. But this goes against Islamic principles of no physical intimacy outside of marriage, being in private unmarried and so forth.

The Prophet did allow some leeway to the prospective spouses getting to know each other before the Nikah ceremony, provided Islamic rules of modesty are attained and the couple aren't in complete seclusion. We all know this but sometimes even today this recommendation isn't executed. Either they don't see each other at all like in previous generations or they go further than what is permitted Islamically.

I do understand where you are coming from. There can also be physical and psychological issues if the woman is entered for the first time without her being fully ready for it. Mufti Ibn Adam has written about the first night in his book, which I'd recommend you read.

The couple should probably discuss it before they take to the bed. And yes, it is a very strange/scary feeling to share a bed with someone you don't know. If you are really worried, you should probably do the nikah before hand and the rukhsati later on, so it gives you time to get to know each other before physically sharing a bed.

[leflyCode]

If you are really worried, you should probably do the nikah before hand and the rukhsati later on, so it gives you time to get to know each other before physically sharing a bed.

that is very good advice

[car.insur]

A lawful marriage in Islam consists of an offer and acceptance between the man and the 'wali' of the woman. Given that the woman consents to the actions of the 'wali', then that constitutes the 'consent' towards sexual relations.

'Rape' is a legal description of sexual intercourse WITHOUT consent.

So it is NOT right to compare them. Alhmadullilah, the members have given some links as to the best way to deal with this issue, and such links will be helpful in this case.

But, if we wish to get into the very fine legalities of the matter (and Insha Allah I will be corrected if I am wrong), the effectualization of the marriage itself means that the man can enjoy his wife whenever he wants, because the marriage contract gives him the right over her body (i.e. those parts necessary for satisfaction) once the ammount of Mahr has been paid.

(As an aside, we should keep in mind that in Islam, just because something is assumed to be yours (such as your body, your wealth, etc.) it does not mean that the right to decide what to do with it is automatically yours in all cases. This is not a big issue in marriage in fact, but it is of importance when we consider other things such as slavery, etc. The thinking is quite different from that of non-Muslim societies, and I believe that at the very beginning we should discuss the overall truth of Islam rather than these specific cases).

There may have been a refusal from part of the prospective bride before the marriage (and even that is contested by some of our 'Ulama, whether the absolute right is with the woman or with her father), but once she agress to marry the man for the specified ammount, she has basiccaly said that she allows for spousal relations at any time for as long as the marriage is there. This is one of the reasons why the bride and groom should know all the Fiqhi matters of marriage before going ahead with such things, otherwise they wil not know what are the rights and responsibilities of each side, or the technical details related to each issue, and it goes without saying that in such a case fully consentual marriages will be more favored (rather than just receiving a call from yor elders that youw ill get married on such and such date).

Of course, all of this is totally againt the Western mode of thinking about relations, since for them "consent" rather than "divinely sanctioned contract" is what is preponderant. This leads not only to normal adultery, but also homosexuality, incest, and worse things which we may see in the future (this is obvious, because if I can consent with any willing woman, then why not with a willing man, one of my willing relatives, or even a willing animal?)

[iioijjjkkojhbb]

Threads like these make me realize how comical and strange life can become for people in the modern society .

Have you ever thought how previous generations like our parents and grand parents look at these issues ?

If you try to explain the concept of sex education in schools to a senior member ,
I bet they will find it most amusing or even worse they might get the wrong idea .

Really things as simple as sexual relationship between man and woman have become complicated out of proportions .